The "f" word

[Michael B. Ross]

Profanity is now commonly used in public American culture. The use of four letter words is used so much, they have lost their shock value. I am not proud to say that I have been desensitized to the use of some profanity. Some words don't impact me as they once did.

But, one word particularly still deeply offends me--the "f" word. I am sitting in a hotel at 6:00am in Washington DC area. Two men just left their room next to mine. They stood in the hall and loudly discussed today's plans. The "f" word was used repeatedly.

The other day while my plane was taxiing, a man three rows in front of me loudly commented to someone he knew sitting across the aisle. His comment included the "f" word. I almost unbuckled my seat belt and walked up to him and reminded him that he was among women and children, and that he had offended at least one male (me). Had we not been taxiing or had I been sitting closer, I would have said something to him, at some risk, of course.

My attitude toward the passenger probably wasn't the best. I perceived him as an uncouth and obnoxious idiot. (So, it probably is better I didn't say anything to him.:basic03)

Well, now that I have vented, I can go on with my day. I just thought I would feel better if I told some understanding NazNetters that I am still very offended by the "f" word.

[Gina Stevenson]

Understand your feelings. Reading the part about your thinking it might have been better to not say anything to someone who seemed obnoxious (as he might have reacted accordingly?) made me wonder if there've been times when I could've been "in danger," and was too naive to realize it, eh? :rolleyes:

You see, that "f" word bugs me, too ... and I've sometimes reacted with something like, "Awww, come on, guys (generic for either sex) ... can't we clean it up just a little?" (said softly, of course, not asking for a fight ;))

[Paul Whitaker]

Maybe I'm too old and remember the teachings I received.

There is another f word which is far*. I have trouble with that. It is interesting to hear people say that who you would not have thought would do such.

Tell me I'm too old.

[Andrea Larabee]

As a young, unsaved woman, I had a really bad 'sailor's mouth'. I've been a Christian now for 10 yrs. and I hate to hear the "f" word. It is offensive. And I hope after being a Christian for 50 years, I still get offended by perverse speach. It's just not necessary to use it to make sure the listening party gets the point one is trying to make.

[Gord Evans]

Profanity is now commonly used in public American culture.

Yes, it is.

And it doesn't become any less offensive to Christian ears as time passes.

Profanity isn't used to express love or joy, or to pass the peace. It, normally, is not expressed in patience nor goodness, nor with gentleness. It seldom is used with self-control. It is not usually expressed by the faithful, or in faithfulness.

Unlike olives, Vernor's and tonic water, it does not have a taste to which those living by the Spirit will ever grow accustomed, or learn to appreciate.

And, it's not the "f" word. It's any of the words which we individually define as profane.

The sound and the flavour of those words is contrary to what we enjoy and appreciate.

We can pray for those who are not led by the Spirit. And we can "go into all the world and make disciples ...", but we will never be less offended when we hear those words being used in our presence.

Hallelujah! Praise the Lord.

:fav18

[And this, from someone who's mouth and vocabulary were filled with them not so very long ago ... was blind, but now I see ... thank You, Lord!]

George Carlin has had a stand-up comedy routine over the years in which he used seven (then increasingly more) words that you "can't say on television."

One of the purposes of his routine was to teach the world that these were, after all, only words. And, that eventually we get used to any words. Eventually.

And he was correct about one thing. The world did learn to accept those words ... consequently, they are now fairly commonly used in public, and even on TV; prolifically, now, in most movies.

George missed (I think) the concept that, for those who are led by the Spirit, there will always be things of the world, even words, that will always be contrary to the Spirit and in conflict with the senses God has given to His children.

[Wanda Van Winkle]

I almost unbuckled my seat belt and walked up to him and reminded him that he was among women and children,

I'm curious, do you have different standards for men and women regarding behavior?

As for the "f" word, a while back I had a discussion with someone who candidly said it was just an everyday word. She didn't see what the big deal was. It's part of the culture.

It probably would not have done any good to say anything. While in England a few years ago, a couple of teenage girls were "f"-ing in every sentence across the aisle from us on a train. Michael finally did not quell the urge (as did you) to say something. He politely said, "Excuse me, could you please watch your language in this public place?" What he got was a barrage of more words and one of them flashed her breasts at him.

Later when they were gone and a distinguished looking English gentleman was leaving the train, he stopped and said in a heavily accented English, "I certainly hope you do not judge all English on the basis of those girls. Cheerio." [Not an exact quote]

It was so cool to hear the "Cheerio" from a true Englishman. :)

[Barb Bouldrey]

Even on some movies on TV you hear this word bleeped out often. When I hear this word, and many other words that I was never allowed to say, even in a home with an unsaved Mom, I am shocked at the abundant use.

I have noticed that many words that were considered vulgar and inappropriate for decent people as I was growing up are now common "fun" words. They are not always used as swear words.

I hear this word used in place of saying, "stupid" or "ridiculous." referring to something a person does not like..as in "that f------ cost of gasoline."

I hear girls refer to each other as a "b---h" or say "that is "bi---ing" and it is suppose to be a compliment. I saw a teen with that word tatooed on her ankle.

I remember how shocked SOCIETY was when Archie Bunker first used the word "****" on a TV show.

Swear words are cultural. Where those words ever came from, I do not know. But years ago the American society deemed many words inappropriate for decent people to use.

When I was first teaching high school, professional people did not use these words. I never heard swearing in the teacher's lounge. I never heard swearing in places of business. Now it is very common.

Our young adults and teens are so used to hearing this language they do not "hear it" as bad language.

One time Stephen rented a movie when he was home for a visit that he had seen at the theater. He said,"Mom, you will really like this movie. It is a good movie." 10 minutes into the movie I told him I could no longer watch it because of all the offensive language. His reply was, "I do not remember all that much swearing when I saw it at the theater."

What is offensive to my generation is not offensive to today's generation. I understand that. But I do not like it.

Actually, I posted on the Good Clean Fun forum about a sign I saw here in Sikeston and it had a word on it that you will not hear me use in normal conversation.

Thank you, Michael. I am so glad to see when others are still offended by the language of our world...as I am. Not everyone has become desensitized to the vulgarity of our world.

Barb

[Barbara Moulton]

I hate hearing the "F" word as much.

But I still don't think it is has permeated into society so that it is acceptable among "society" or professional circles.

I hear it in line ups at the coffee shop but I don't hear it in meetings at work. :-) Not yet anyays :-)

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

I doubt Christians will ever become desensitized to that word.
When I was growing up, if someone, said a bad word within my hearing, they immediately realized that I was there, turned and apologized. There are words that I hear Christians say, that I was taught not to say. But, if we should judge at all, we may realize that their lives prove that they are sincere Christians, and do not know any better.

[Jim Monck]

I wonder if we simply ask people what they mean often enough. For instance when they say "God ****" do we say, "I take it you are a strong believer in God's punishment. What happen that you want God to take such strong action?"

I too dislike the "F" word but I wonder what would happen if we just asked people to explain what they mean. For instance we could ask a teen using it, "Are you planning on doing that to him or her?"

Now I'm not stupid so I most likely would not do that to someone twice my size but have we let the world use poor language without challenging their thinking. I'm not talking about condemming just politely asking questions.

It seems to me we only have a couple choices; grumble or question?

Now let me close with assuring you I'm not as good at practicing what I preach, but to be honest most of us are not.

[Paul Whitaker]

When I was at The Ohio State University doing my work for the PhD I spent a lot of time in the 'gathering room' for all of the doctoral students and the professors. We had coffee, etc, watched tv, watched the shuttle when we lost our school teacher astronaut. Did this for 30 months.

When I left they were talking in the room about my time there. They mentioned that the language had cleaned up quite a bit since I was there. That was taken as a compliment. I had never said anything to any of them about their language - just ignored it and didn't react when they used the words. I was actually shocked when they said something about it.

Guess that has been my modus operandi all of my life.

[Wilson L. Deaton]

Profanity is now commonly used in public American culture. ....
Had we not been taxiing or had I been sitting closer, I would have said something to him, at some risk, of course.
....
I just thought I would feel better if I told some understanding NazNetters that I am still very offended by the "f" word.

I think the original post has more "Thanks" than I recall seeing for any other issue-type post. Does that mean what I think it means? This is an issue with which many people agree and empathize?

I've been pondering it for few hours now and it has turned into some kind of puzzle for me....

For some reason we tend to treat this particular "offensive behavior" differently than we treat other offensive behavior. Why is that?

If we met a new couple at a ball game and the husband shouts the "f" word we are tempted to say something... If we find out in conversation that this same couple are unmarried yet live together we wouldn't dream of lecturing them about the sanctity of marriage. (Ironically, we will take more aggressive action with someone saying the "f" word than someone illicitly doing the "f" word.) Would we ever consider confronting a stranger for the super expensive sports he wasted money on? Instead, we might admire his frivilous purchase. Can you fathom walking up to a lady at the motel pool and asking her to put on a robe because we think her swimsuit is too skimpy? Yet we might be tempted to ask her to watch her language...

All sin should be "offensive" to Christians and we can never really get over that. But is it ever our place to expect sinners to comply with our standards because it bothers us? Is it ever our place to "stand up for our right" not be offended in such a way? I think not. Exposure to sin, including rude and disrespectful language, is part of what it means to live in the world.

[I'm not sure I'm brave enough to try this, but this thought just crossed my mind so I'll share it: What if the next time we overheard an angry "f" word tirade we said something like, "Pardon me, but I couldn't help but notice that you sounded very upset. Is there something I could help you with? Could I pray for you about something?" Where might a response like that lead?]

Wilson

[Laurie Florence]

His comment included the "f" word. I almost unbuckled my seat belt and walked up to him and reminded him that he was among women and children, and that he had offended at least one male (me). Had we not been taxiing or had I been sitting closer, I would have said something to him, at some risk, of course.

I am in a profession wherein I work with children six and under. It's sad to say, but chances are, these children on the plane have already heard the "f" word ... and more than once. You would be appalled at the language that comes out of very young children. I recall a little boy whose colourful vocabulary would make me blush. (His word for girls and women was, in my opinion, even worse than the "f" word.) :eek:
It would be nice if the world could go back to a more innocent time. A time when people respected each other, and demonstrated this through their choice of words.

[Michael B. Ross]

Oh, come on, Wilson. The man using the "f" word loud enough for me to hear him three rows back is the issue, not whether it is more or less wrong than other "sins," to use your word. As far as I know, the man may be unmarried and living with a woman, but someone wouldn't know that by looking at him sitting in an airplane.

There were small children nearby, and if I had been closer to him, I would have asked him to be more considerate of them.

My offense was not one of religion, but one of decency. He was bringing offensive language into a public setting that included children. Maybe exposure to this type of behavior is, as you say, part of what it means to live in the world. But, there is nothing particularly Christian about tolerating his language in a public setting.

I think the original post has more "Thanks" than I recall seeing for any other issue-type post. Does that mean what I think it means? This is an issue with which many people agree and empathize?

I've been pondering it for few hours now and it has turned into some kind of puzzle for me....

For some reason we tend to treat this particular "offensive behavior" differently than we treat other offensive behavior. Why is that?

If we met a new couple at a ball game and the husband shouts the "f" word we are tempted to say something... If we find out in conversation that this same couple are unmarried yet live together we wouldn't dream of lecturing them about the sanctity of marriage. (Ironically, we will take more aggressive action with someone saying the "f" word than someone illicitly doing the "f" word.) Would we ever consider confronting a stranger for the super expensive sports he wasted money on? Instead, we might admire his frivilous purchase. Can you fathom walking up to a lady at the motel pool and asking her to put on a robe because we think her swimsuit is too skimpy? Yet we might be tempted to ask her to watch her language...

All sin should be "offensive" to Christians and we can never really get over that. But is it ever our place to expect sinners to comply with our standards because it bothers us? Is it ever our place to "stand up for our right" not be offended in such a way? I think not. Exposure to sin, including rude and disrespectful language, is part of what it means to live in the world.

[I'm not sure I'm brave enough to try this, but this thought just crossed my mind so I'll share it: What if the next time we overheard an angry "f" word tirade we said something like, "Pardon me, but I couldn't help but notice that you sounded very upset. Is there something I could help you with? Could I pray for you about something?" Where might a response like that lead?]

Wilson

[Wanda Van Winkle]

[I'm not sure I'm brave enough to try this, but this thought just crossed my mind so I'll share it: What if the next time we overheard an angry "f" word tirade we said something like, "Pardon me, but I couldn't help but notice that you sounded very upset. Is there something I could help you with? Could I pray for you about something?" Where might a response like that lead?]

Wilson

That's an interesting idea, Wilson. I had my car window down one time when someone shouted out nasty word and gave me the finger. I guess I was in their way. I said loud enough for them to hear: God bless you! And I smiled as I drove away.

On the other hand, in a country where rudeness and disrespect is honored more than respect and courtesy, do we really want to condone behavior by never speaking out against it? Not for our prissy Christian ears' sake, but for the sake of society in general. This same disrespect for other people might be at the root of shootings and killings and beatings, even by very young people. There are laws against slander and libel. I think there used to be laws against indecent behavior, but perhaps there are none now. Who keeps up? And if nobody says something is indecent, then it only continues to be acceptable. Perhaps.

[Michael B. Ross]

Wanda, I am really glad you asked your question. It forced me to consider: do I have a double standard for men and women? I assume your question is a result of my mentioning he was among women and children and failed to mention men. I guess I showed a little of my old school thinking, sort of like the ole' "save the women and children first." I am going to give it some thought.

I'm curious, do you have different standards for men and women regarding behavior?

As for the "f" word, a while back I had a discussion with someone who candidly said it was just an everyday word. She didn't see what the big deal was. It's part of the culture.

It probably would not have done any good to say anything. While in England a few years ago, a couple of teenage girls were "f"-ing in every sentence across the aisle from us on a train. Michael finally did not quell the urge (as did you) to say something. He politely said, "Excuse me, could you please watch your language in this public place?" What he got was a barrage of more words and one of them flashed her breasts at him.

Later when they were gone and a distinguished looking English gentleman was leaving the train, he stopped and said in a heavily accented English, "I certainly hope you do not judge all English on the basis of those girls. Cheerio." [Not an exact quote]

It was so cool to hear the "Cheerio" from a true Englishman. :)

[Scott Daniels]

There have been some scholars who have tried to relate the rise of violence with the loss of offensive language.

Stay with me here... These linguitic scholars argue that all cultures need language that is strong and perhaps even profane but is used very seldom so that the expression of extreme emotions can still be done verbally. The problem is that in a media culture like ours "normal" language gets watered down through commercialism.

Let me give you an example. If George Washington were to say, "America must change. We need to have a revolution in America," we would all go get guns. But now a word like "revolution" has been so over used by politicians and co-opted by people selling toothpaste and detergent ("a revolutionary new product") it has lost its strong expressive meaning. To express the same sentiment now - a stronger word - maybe even a profane word ("we are going to f* up America) would have to be used.

But what happens when a culture, like ours, grows accustomed to using its strongest and most profane language in every day conversation? Some scholars think the only form of self-expression left is violence.

Make sense? It's an interesting theory. If its true, then people (like Christians) who don't regularly practice the use of profanity are the only people in the culture left with enough meaningful language to express their feelings verbally without having to resort to violence.

[Barb Bouldrey]

That is very interesting, Scott. Thanks for sharing that theory.

Barb

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

A number of things ini my opinion have changed things in our country.
Kids use to come to school dressed in a neat, decent way. The way one is dressed has much to do with the way they act, and possibly the way they talk. When people my age were growing up, I feel tht we had teachers (as a whole) that had high morals--unlike some of the younger ones that we have these days.
Another thing has been dropping the age that is considered an adult down to 18. They start at an earlier age saying, "When I get 18, etc." There is nothing in the Bible that says a child is grown at 18, or is free to begin disrespecting or disobeying their parents, cursing, or what ever at any certain age. Less young people were raised in homes with lots of profanity used, if any.
Remember, this is my opinion, and it is not to put all teachers down.

[Gina Stevenson]

'Think I've heard something like that before, Scott, where if our language is "all used up," there's not much else to resort to other than physical means. Thanks much for the reminder, as it's been awhile.

Wilson, you said:"[I'm not sure I'm brave enough to try this, but this thought just crossed my mind so I'll share it: What if the next time we overheard an angry "f" word tirade we said something like, "Pardon me, but I couldn't help but notice that you sounded very upset. Is there something I could help you with? Could I pray for you about something?" Where might a response like that lead?]"Well, the thing is, it's so common nowadays---well, actually, even years ago at work---that people are joking around and using it (not the "f" word, but just vulgar language) every sentence, or a few times/sentence. Often, anymore, there's just nothing they're "upset" about for which you can suggest prayer. [EDIT: just remembered that I have asked someone who said something like, "G-- D--- that so-and-so!" if that was what they really wanted Him to do.]

It was usually in such times that it had nothing to do with someone being upset that I'd use my, "Awww ... come on, guys ...." and then not all that many times, really. As Dennis has said, people sometimes just notice you don't talk like them before you even say anything and do clean it up, or even catch themselves and feel they have to apologize to someone they've not heard talk just like them for doing it ... without one word being said.

With some people [this thread bro't back this memory], they were like this "eons" ago (no, I'm not that old, but it was my first "real" job that wasn't just at an ice cream place for awhile one summer). Just before starting college, I was working in this office, and the guy, rather than taking advantage of the shorthand I knew, would sometimes want to get something out "now!" and so would stand over the typewriter (what computer!?) dictating, as I typed.

Well, one day he got furious with someone---couldn't tell you who, or what about---and was spitting out some rather vitriolic nasty words. Suddenly I stopped typing, and he said, "Well ..." I looked at him and said, "Well ..." He started repeating his vulgar stuff, and then yelled at me for just sitting there not typing it all. Can't believe I was gutsy there, since I grew up very (purposefully) intimidated, but for some reason I could be if it had to do with values.

He started in again, and I just looked at him until he stopped. I told him that I couldn't type all that "junk" he was speaking, that he should be glad I would not, because he didn't really want to send a letter that sounded like that ... adding that he'd be much better off if he went and cooled down, and came back and dictated a "decent" letter later. When he did, then I'd type it.

He huffed off, came back probably a half hour or more later, and dictated the decent letter he needed to send in the first place.

Actually, there might have been someone who would have typed out that "junk" for him, and it would be permanently in print for whoever it was to use against him ... real good for business, huh? But, he also could've gotten mad at me, too, and fired me (he was one hothead), and I did need the job to contribute as much as I could to my college $$. So, it was a risky thing to do. But I did it, he calmed down, and did what he had to do ... right.

So, it's not always so awful to not speak up ... 'might help someone out, such as this turned out to be. ;)

[Wilson L. Deaton]

Oh, come on, Wilson....

My offense was not one of religion, but one of decency. ....

Seperating this issue from religion is a "slippery slope" to use the overused phrase.

If we make use of this term a "decency" issue whiile saying it is not a religious issue then we are in effect saying that its propriety is based not on religion but on cultural norms. Meanwhile, we are constantly hearing (even in this thread) how normal the term is getting in our society. If we take religion out of the equation, then the implication must be that its "wrongness" comes from society, so when society accepts it, it is no longer indecent.

I maintain that it is, in fact, a religious issue: Note for example, Colossians 3:8, "But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips." Or Ephesians 4:29, "Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen." In other words, contrary to what some Christians seem to believe, the Biblical injunction against language is not limited to taking God's name in vain.

My position remains that as wrong as it is, and as much as we don't like it, we shouldn't respond to it any differently than we respond to other wrongdoings.

Wilson

[Hans Deventer]

Seperating this issue from religion is a "slippery slope" to use the overused phrase.

I think you are on that slope! I find myself agreeing with you a lot, and that can hardly be a good sign :basic05

[Michael B. Ross]

Wilson, I did not intend to suggest that the use of the word didn't have religious overtones. It does, at least for me. But, that does not make the indecency argument invalid. Further, there are many behaviors our culture would consider indecent that few would consider to be morally wrong.

Also, cultural norms have some degree of "authority." Do those norms change? Apparently, they do, but societies have designed covert and overt ways to retain and modify norms in order to maintain balance and order in society. Social groups have always determined "wrongness."

Even first century Christians. Your use of NT references is interesting. What is "unfilthy language" and "unwholesome talk?" You think they were referring to the "f" word? I would guess not, but I do believe they were considering some cultural norms.

Your last paragraph, "My position remains that as wrong as it is, and as much as we don't like it, we shouldn't respond to it any differently than we respond to other wrongdoings," suggests there is uniform response to wrongs. You are right in your earlier post. I might not respond at all if a guy sitting next to me in a plane informed me he was "shacking up," but I would respond if he was beating his child.


Seperating this issue from religion is a "slippery slope" to use the overused phrase.

If we make use of this term a "decency" issue whiile saying it is not a religious issue then we are in effect saying that its propriety is based not on religion but on cultural norms. Meanwhile, we are constantly hearing (even in this thread) how normal the term is getting in our society. If we take religion out of the equation, then the implication must be that its "wrongness" comes from society, so when society accepts it, it is no longer indecent.

I maintain that it is, in fact, a religious issue: Note for example, Colossians 3:8, "But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips." Or Ephesians 4:29, "Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen." In other words, contrary to what some Christians seem to believe, the Biblical injunction against language is not limited to taking God's name in vain.

My position remains that as wrong as it is, and as much as we don't like it, we shouldn't respond to it any differently than we respond to other wrongdoings.

Wilson

[Barb Bouldrey]

Sin should make us cringe with discomfort.

Couples in bed on TV or movies should make us cringe with discomfort so we turn the channel.

The sexuality and nudity in TV commericials should make us cringe with discomfort.

A gay couple being affectionate in public or on TV/movies should make us cringe with discomfort.

Just as filthy language should make us cringe with discomfort.

Tolerance has crept into Christianity to the point that many of us no longer cringe at sin.

Barb

[Wilson L. Deaton]

... Your use of NT references is interesting. What is "filthy language" and "unwholesome talk?" You think they were referring to the "f" word?

I admit that I've forgotten a lot of my Greek and Hebrew but I remember enough to not actually believe that Paul did his thinking and writing in 21st Century English. So, do I think he literally had the "f" word in mind? No.

Do I think Paul's thinking included crude, sex-related language? Yes.

I would guess not, but I do believe they were considering some cultural norms.

I don't think Paul's injunctions were based on cultural norms but rather that they were more directly theologically based. Take the idea of sex language, for example. Sex is a gift of intimacy in marriage that is part and parcel of God creating us to be relational beings and the two becoming one flesh and God joining two together. As such, sex is sacred (holy). To use sex language casually and in derogatory ways is to cheapen and profane it. It breaks down proper inhibitions and lessons the sanctity of sex. Thus it is "unwholesome."

Your last paragraph, "My position remains that as wrong as it is, and as much as we don't like it, we shouldn't respond to it any differently than we respond to other wrongdoings," suggests there is uniform response to wrongs. You are right in your earlier post. I might not respond at all if a guy sitting next to me in a plane informed me he was "shacking up," but I would respond if he was beating his child.

I accept that there isn't one uniform response to wrongs. However, I believe that we should differentiate based on something objective and not just our preferences and/or comfort levels. In most cases those who get after people for using the "f" word do so because they because it is offensive to them. Beating a child is not only wrong, but also illegal and also has a direct and immediate victim. An intervention in that case is not the same as simply avoiding unpleasantness. I don't think Christians should be confronting people every time we are offended.

But, there is nothing particularly Christian about tolerating his language in a public setting.

This last statement came from one of your earlier posts in this thread but I want to address it here.

I think it is particularly Christian to tolerate such offenses. I believe this easily fits theologically/Biblically in the category of turning the other cheek. ("If he strikes, you turn the other cheek but if he spews profanity reprimand him." That logic doesn't fly.)

Furthermore, I think confronting such an issue gives Christians a bad reputation. We look like intolerant, holier-than-thou, hypersensitive whiners.

Finally, I just can't fathom Jesus walking down the beach with a small crowd (including children), overhearing a fisherman using crude language, and responding with, "Hey, watch your language!"

Wilson

[Billy Cox]

It is perhaps my lot in life to be the 'yang' to the overwhelming 'ying' in this thread.

I have to laugh a little bit about how uptight we get over the use of a particular word.

I think it would do us good to practice not being shocked when someone drops the 'f-bomb'. The Christian life is after all not about abstaining from crude language but is about being transformed by the renewing of our mind.

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

OK, Billy! You can be the Ying Yang.

[Barb Bouldrey]

But Billy, this just shows our age difference. You are much younger than Michael and I are. You were raised hearing more words used in every-day speaking that we were raised NOT to use. Your teen years and currently young adult years have been saturated with what we consider foul language so that it does not offend you as it does us.

When a person has been raised in a society that has taught them that some words are vulgar and inappropriate for professional, educated, decent people to use, it is hard for that person to accept those words as normal once society has taken the stigma off those words.

When I was teenager I never heard any profanity in movies, on TV, in my non-Christian home and even at school among my friends...or in the hallway. My generation, for the most part, did not use that language because society (as well as the church) did not allows us to.

Barb

[Paul Whitaker]

Barb, you score again!

In the public high school I attended there was NO profanity in the hallway. If so the teachers, principals or even students would correct the student.

I guess it was after our day that the bumper stickers appeared saying "Challenge Authority".

[Billy Cox]

But Billy, this just shows our age difference. You are much younger than Michael and I are. You were raised hearing more words used in every-day speaking that we were raised NOT to use. Your teen years and currently young adult years have been saturated with what we consider foul language so that it does not offend you as it does us.

When a person has been raised in a society that has taught them that some words are vulgar and inappropriate for professional, educated, decent people to use, it is hard for that person to accept those words as normal once society has taken the stigma off those words.

When I was teenager I never heard any profanity in movies, on TV, in my non-Christian home and even at school among my friends...or in the hallway. My generation, for the most part, did not use that language because society (as well as the church) did not allows us to.

Barb

I wouldn't say that the stigma of crude language is gone. There are still plenty of settings where crude language is seen as unsophisticated or unprofessional.

Consider TV commercials... Despite permissive broadcast standards, advertisers still don't use foul language. If crude language helped to sell products to a mass market, you can bet it would be used in commercials.

[Mark Doble]

The other day I was talking with one of our teens. They mentioned to me that they had to go on a 3 day school trip again with a sports team. They were not looking forward to it as the language is just horrendous. The "F" word is very much part of their vocabulary. The content is just as horrendous. They wondered why it hurt so much to sit and listen to such language. It is hard to get away from sitting in a van, or in the Hotel room late at night.

I told them that type of language offends the Spirit that lives within them! The team knows the person is a Christian and they really don't care how they speak.

Please pray for this person.

[Marsha Lynn]

The other day while my plane was taxiing, a man three rows in front of me loudly commented to someone he knew sitting across the aisle. His comment included the "f" word. I almost unbuckled my seat belt and walked up to him and reminded him that he was among women and children, and that he had offended at least one male (me). Had we not been taxiing or had I been sitting closer, I would have said something to him, at some risk, of course.

OK, Michael, I've thought about this and have a suggestion. Either have pre-printed or on-the-spot written cards with a friendly reminder on them such as this:

Just a note that your words are audible to those around you. Would you either use "G-rated" vocabulary or lower your volume? Thank you for your consideration. Signed: A fellow traveler.

On the airplane, you could have pulled out one of these cards and handed it to someone between you and the offensive speaker, asking them to pass it on. Everyone between you and the gutter-mouth passenger could read it and know exactly where it was headed.

If not that message, maybe the NazNet community could work together to create a statement to make the point in a manner that would bring a positive response more frequently than a negative one. In fact, I might need to keep cards like that around the library. Let's see ...

Please remember that you are in a public place. Although, libraries are no longer "quiet zones", we strive to keep them family friendly. We would appreciate it if you would support our efforts by making sure your "adult" language does not reach the ears of those around you. Thank you.

What do you think?

Marsha

[Jim Franklin]

I don't like to hear the "p----- off" (meaning disgusted or enraged) words either. I deem it vulgar in the way it is used even if one translation of the Bible uses another form of the term. I do not think it should be used in polite company or anywhere else either.

[Marilyn Lawson]

The 'F' word really bugs me.

It is common language around where I live and on the buses.

I have learned to tune most of it out and when I can't take it anymore - I say to them 'there are more words in the english language - can't you find a different one.'

I have let it slip a couple of times and if my kids hear me slip - they run real fast. They know I have had enough by that point.

As much as the words drive us nuts - they are not going away.

Many will not agree - but it is used so common now that it is part of the normal english language.

I have decided not to totaly freak out when I hear it - but will ask my kids to change the words and the kids of my friends around me.

I don't like hearing them sound like a trucker.

I just choose not to swear for myself.

Marilyn

[Dale Cozby]

I once heard a story about the origin of our vulgar words. Seems that before 1066 Saxons ruled england but when the Normons took over, the official language of the court was french. All the Saxon nobles were required to speak french at court. Of course in heated political exchanges the Saxon lords would forget thier french and revert to thier native saxon tongue which by Norman standards, was considered crude. Saxon was the language spoken by the peasants, but Lords could speak french and some latin.

So when those crude "vulgar" words were thrown out in court, a Saxon lord would add, "pardon(french word) my french"

Today, all of the words we consider vulgar are of saxon origin, not french or latin. The four letter ones that is.
Even the word vlugar means "common".

Being vulgar or "common" is a state of spiritual being. It relates to being on the wide path, not the narrow one. When I became a Christian( real born-again one) my language was the first thing that gave way. I spoke like a sailor with my friends and overnight it changed. So much so, they all noticed and asked why.

Consider the langauge you hear like walking in the dirt of the world. When you come home your feet are dirty and need a bath. So your mind has a need to be renewed once again.

"Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind"

[Jim Monck]

I'm more worried about Christians who never hear any of these words.

Anyone get what I mean?

[Wilson L. Deaton]

I'm more worried about Christians who never hear any of these words.

Anyone get what I mean?

As Neil Cole put it (I've already quoted this a couple of times in other threads but it keeps coming to mind): "If you want to win this world to Christ, you are going to have to sit in the smoking section."

Wilson

[Marilyn Lawson]

As Neil Cole put it (I've already quoted this a couple of times in other threads but it keeps coming to mind): "If you want to win this world to Christ, you are going to have to sit in the smoking section."

Wilson

I know my reactions to people, have made an impact.

They have seen and heard what it is I am going through and always ask how I can handle the garbage thrown at me.

I am always willing to let them Know that Jesus helps me every step of the way.

I can not put them down for their langugae - I use to do it myself. BUT I can act differently infront of them - and they say sorry when they do swear.

So I know I am making a dent in the language of choice - I just choose not to turn my back on them.

Marilyn

[Michael B. Ross]

Marsha, I can't tell if you are serious or not. It reads like you are, but a little voice keeps telling me you are being satirical. Maybe that is why I like your post so much. :basic01

Do you want any fish this year? I probably will be going in May.

OK, Michael, I've thought about this and have a suggestion. Either have pre-printed or on-the-spot written cards with a friendly reminder on them such as this:



On the airplane, you could have pulled out one of these cards and handed it to someone between you and the offensive speaker, asking them to pass it on. Everyone between you and the gutter-mouth passenger could read it and know exactly where it was headed.

If not that message, maybe the NazNet community could work together to create a statement to make the point in a manner that would bring a positive response more frequently than a negative one. In fact, I might need to keep cards like that around the library. Let's see ...



What do you think?

Marsha

[Marsha Lynn]

Marsha, I can't tell if you are serious or not. It reads like you are, but a little voice keeps telling me you are being satirical.

Oh, Michael, you modern thinkers are always trying to neatly categorize and define things. Why must it be either serious or satirical? Why not 37% serious and 63% satirical. Or the other way around. Or maybe 41%/59%.

I tell you what. If you like the idea, put it in the bin with the 'serious' label. If you don't, then ... "ha ha ha" I was only joking.

Do you want any fish this year? I probably will be going in May.

Ah ... another visit from a mysterious stranger bearing gift fish? I'm not sure my library staff can handle it. The fish would be secondary to the visit, but, sure, if you have extra and are passing through during one of those rare times when the library is actually open and the librarian has deigned to make an appearance, feel free to drop a few off.

:basic01

Marsha

[Marsha Lynn]

Oh, Michael, you modern thinkers are always trying to neatly categorize and define things. Why must it be either serious or satirical? Why not 37% serious and 63% satirical. Or the other way around. Or maybe 41%/59%.

I tell you what. If you like the idea, put it in the bin with the 'serious' label. If you don't, then ... "ha ha ha" I was only joking.

Whoa! The ether has been at work here. When I posted this four hours ago, I had a grin on my face. It was light-hearted teasing directed toward a friend, playfully accusing him of not keeping up with postmodern culture. But when I came back just now, all the humor had drained away and there was this tone of exasperation and heavy sarcasm hanging around it. Is that how you all have been reading it? How embarrassing!

As the servants of the farmer in Matthew 13 said, "Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?"

And the farmer replied, "An enemy did this."

I hope that the despicable enemy who sucked all of the humor out of my post while I wasn't looking will use it productively someplace around here! I'm not sure I can add enough smilies in the edit mode to cut past the tares to the wheat in that post.

I will now be serious since humor seems beyond me. My card suggestion was something that I could imagine someone doing. We librarians make a lot of signs in often-futile attempts to persuade people to exhibit socially acceptable behavior in public settings. However, I'm hesitant to offer it as a serious suggestion for fear that the response would be gales of laughter. On the other hand, I can't imagine that its effectiveness would be any less than making a verbal request that someone clean up their language. There are a lot of people in the world who don't respond well to the embarrassment of public reprimand.

OK. I have to post this quickly before anyone else reads my original post and Michael's private message inbox is inundated with notes of sympathy and support.

:eek:

Marsha

[Gina Stevenson]

Marsha, perhaps your smilies weren't lost, afterall. Sometimes with dial-up you don't just lose the pics/smilies, with little place-holder squares left there, but even those squares don't load, and it appears that all has disappeared when it really has not. THEN, when traffic's not so heavy, they reappear again. ;)

[Michael B. Ross]

Marsha, you are so funny. First, I took your post as being light-hearted and teasing. So, don't worry about that part of it. BTW, no private messages of sympathy yet, but you know how we modern men are--big babies who love sympathy and show it by acting like a mild cold is actually pneumonia.

And, the only reason I questioned the seriousness of your suggestion was because I was wondering if you were doing a take-off on those generic greeting cards that require someone to check the appropriate boxes.

And, wasn't that terrible about the man flying his plane into his ex-mother's-in-law house, killing himself and his daughter?

Whoa! The ethernet has been at work here. When I posted this four hours ago, I had a grin on my face. It was light-hearted teasing directed toward a friend, playfully accusing him of not keeping up with postmodern culture. But when I came back just now, all the humor had drained away and there was this tone of exasperation and heavy sarcasm hanging around it. Is that how you all have been reading it? How embarrassing!

As the servants of the farmer in Matthew 13 said, "Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?"

And the farmer replied, "An enemy did this."

I hope that the despicable enemy who sucked all of the humor out of my post while I wasn't looking will use it productively someplace around here! I'm not sure I can add enough smilies in the edit mode to cut past the tares to the wheat in that post.

I will now be serious since humor seems beyond me. My card suggestion was something that I could imagine someone doing. We librarians make a lot of signs in often-futile attempts to persuade people to exhibit socially acceptable behavior in public settings. However, I'm hesitant to offer it as a serious suggestion for fear that the response would be gales of laughter. On the other hand, I can't imagine that its effectiveness would be any less than making a verbal request that someone clean up their language. There are a lot of people in the world who don't respond well to the embarrassment of public reprimand.

OK. I have to post this quickly before anyone else reads my original post and Michael's private message inbox is inundated with notes of sympathy and support.

:eek:

Marsha

[Paul Whitaker]

OK. I have to post this quickly before anyone else reads my original post and Michael's private message inbox is inundated with notes of sympathy and support.
Marsha

Marsha, it is YOU who has my support.

[Scott Hilton]

I very much dislike the word also, personally. I didn't even care for it all that much before having Christ in my life. I would have wanted to react the same way even before having the Spirit in my heart. I however, work in a machine shop. So, I get to hear that word all day long by co-workers, my boss and upper management. Unless the engineers and management and sales staff aren't considered "professionals", it has seeped into meetings and such without a second thought where I live.

I really don't say a whole lot about it though, there are a few of my co-workers who try to watch what they say around me out of respect to me, but I can't expect them to do that, because they do not have the light in them shining through the darkness. That is what Christ expects me to do, so I guess I get to put up with the language.....of course at times that is better than reading some of the poor english I have seen on other message boards, lol. JKJK

God bless