Anonymous post: Pastoral moves and gossip

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

I was asked to post these questions by an individual who wishes to remain anonymous:
A question for laypeople: What would you do if you found out that the biggest gossip in the church is spreading the word that your pastor has interviewed at another church on the district? Would you be the one to call the pastor and let him know that his "secret" is spreading like wildfire through the congregation? If so, how long would you wait? Would you call as soon as you heard and drop this news on him or would you wait for an opportune moment?

For pastors (and wives): What would you hope that a layperson who loves you would do when this news came across the grapevine?

[Barb Bouldrey]

I would hope that a layman would call us immediately and get to the source of this gossip.

If John had interviewed anywhere and it got back to one of our laymen, he would want to know immediately so that he could handle it immediately.

Over the years John has had many calls to interview that he has turned down. Every time he has casually let his board know about it once he said "no," in case someone in our church found out he was even asked.

We have interviewed only 3 times when we did not go to that church. In all 3 cases our current pastorate knew nothing about it and never did.

In one pastorate, we took a two week vacation and went to visit both parents. When we got back home, one of our most faithful supporters called and asked if we had interviewed at other churches while we were home in Ohio. We told her the truth. "NO." She then told us that one of the other older ladies in the church was calling church members telling them that we had been in Ohio looking for another church and even told them the name of the next pastor for them...the supply pastor who was on leave of absence from the ministry.

John immediately called that lady and straightened her out. The next service he killed that story.

We thank the faithful supporter who came straight to us for the truth.

It is almost impossible to interview on the same district you pastor without someone finding out...especially in this day of internet email. Someone always seem to know someone in the other church.

John has turned down a lot of calls to interview. He did not want it to get back to his congregation that he was looking, if he was not.

I know we have had a thread on this a similar subject....should a pastor tell his board when he/she is going to interview elsewhere? Maybe it is still in cyperspace somewhere.

Barb

[Belinda Y. Edwards]

It is very possible that it is just gossip and not a shred of truth to it.

i would call and ask.

Sometimes things like this are true.

Sometimes they are not.

What makes me think it is not true is that it is termed as the *church gossip* spreading this. i would want to verify.

[Joel Merrill]

I would keep my nose out of it and let him find out from someone else.

This was not part of the question but I think my pastor has a right to be interviewed by another church. I love my pastor and would hate to see him leave but I trust him enough to follow the Lord's will.

Joel

[Donna Adams]

"For pastors (and wives): What would you hope that a layperson who loves you would do when this news came across the grapevine?
As a pastor's wife, I would want our people to trust us enough to know and to follow the will of God. I would want that person to spend some time in prayer asking God to prepare their hearts for what is too come..whether it's a change or not. I would want that person to keep their mouth shut to others and not repeat it.

[Billy Cox]

... but you're not a layperson. :basic03

[Hans Deventer]

... but you're not a layperson. :basic03

Anyone who is not ordained or a licensed minister is a lay person.

[Hans Deventer]

I was asked to post these questions by an individual who wishes to remain anonymous:
[INDENT][I]A question for laypeople: What would you do if you found out that the biggest gossip in the church is spreading the word that your pastor has interviewed at another church on the district? Would you be the one to call the pastor and let him know that his "secret" is spreading like wildfire through the congregation? If so, how long would you wait? Would you call as soon as you heard and drop this news on him or would you wait for an opportune moment?

I wouldn't call but I would email him right away and advice him to tell his story as soon as possible because gossip has a way of getting further from the truth with every new person who spreads it.

Now (apparently) contrary to the US church, over here, telling you are in contact with another church, is not a mortal sin.

[Donna Adams]

I am a lay person, and I am a pastor's wife. The post asked for both!

[Billie Goodson]

I think it depends so much on the relationship with the pastor. It would also depend on just what the rumor really consisted of - and how his/her leaving would be received. I find it amusing that a pastor "interviewing" is considered such a mortal sin (to quote Hans' description, which I think is how some really view it) -- but, then again, I recently interviewed for another job and would not want my current employer to know ... so maybe I am convicting myself.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Some years ago I was considering a move to a different congregation. A man who was not a member of the church I was pastoring (but his family attended) asked me if I thought my ministry there was going to be a long one.

I tried to answer in a non-committal way, but he took my response to be that I had no intention of moving any time soon.

Not long after that I received and accepted a call elsewhere. That man was deeply offended because he thought I had lied to him and, for years he used it as a reason to stay away from the church.

I didn't lie to him, but I could have handled it better than I did.

The situation in this thread reminded me of that story. If the pastor has already interviewed elsewhere and if people know about it, he ought to be aware of that. It might change how he deals with the topic and it might have eternal consequences for someone.

By the way, today if I was in the same situation I as in with the man in my story, when he asked me about my future plans I would respond with a question of my own: "Why do you ask?" Then, instead of answering his first question, I would respond to his reason for asking.

[Dennis M. Scott]

Some years ago I was considering a move to a different congregation. A man who was not a member of the church I was pastoring (but his family attended) asked me if I thought my ministry there was going to be a long one.

I tried to answer in a non-committal way, but he took my response to be that I had no intention of moving any time soon.

Not long after that I received and accepted a call elsewhere. That man was deeply offended because he thought I had lied to him and, for years he used it as a reason to stay away from the church.

I didn't lie to him, but I could have handled it better than I did.

The situation in this thread reminded me of that story. If the pastor has already interviewed elsewhere and if people know about it, he ought to be aware of that. It might change how he deals with the topic and it might have eternal consequences for someone.

By the way, today if I was in the same situation I as in with the man in my story, when he asked me about my future plans I would respond with a question of my own: "Why do you ask?" Then, instead of answering his first question, I would respond to his reason for asking.

How ironic that when we have sufficient age to know how to handle the questions, we also are old enough that churches aren't calling. :basic05

[David Rhone]

This pastor says, "bring it on". If it's true, I'll tell you why, when and where. If it's not true, I'll give you the facts.

This begs attention to a larger point. In The Purpose Driven Church, Rick Warren tells us a survey of the 100 largest evangelical churches in America. The one and only common thread of these largest churches was the longevity of its Senior Pastor. In our denomination, according to what I have read, the average stay of pastors is under five years. Is there a connection between this statistic and the fact that our average congregation numbers under 100?

What do you think?

[Wanda Van Winkle]

I wouldn't call but I would email him right away and advice him to tell his story as soon as possible because gossip has a way of getting further from the truth with every new person who spreads it.

Now (apparently) contrary to the US church, over here, telling you are in contact with another church, is not a mortal sin.

I think your "apparently" may be a broad sweep of the attitude of the U.S. church. It is not a mortal sin, here, either.

But if a pastor is considering moving, and the word gets around, it would be better to let the pastor discuss the possible move rather than letting the "what ifs" go on. If the pastor is NOT considering moving, and it's just a rumor, it should also be addressed.

But why?

Many people love their pastors and spouses. The thought of losing them would be like losing a good friend. If I had a good friend and heard she or he was moving, I would be calling pretty quick. I wouldn't want to go on what I "heard" about it.

From another perspective, church boards dealing with possible changes in pastors would be affected in a huge way. They would probably want to contact the pastor for verification--even if it's just a long shot that they are considering leaving.

I'm not a board member, and I'm not close to my pastors. But I do appreciate the messages delivered from the pulpit and changing pastors would definitely affect me, too.

[Hans Deventer]

I think your "apparently" may be a broad sweep of the attitude of the U.S. church. It is not a mortal sin, here, either.

OK. I'm just stating the impression I got from reading posts about this issue in the past. They were to the effect that if a pastor ever showed interest in another church and it became known, (s)he better be going for that other church, for his/her ministry in the current one was at an end for that sheer fact.

From my Dutch Reformed background, it was a rule there that you cannot call a pastor the first four years, but afterwards, there would be "hearing teams" and a pastor would tell a congregation he had received a call from another church and was considering it. If the call was rejected, nothing changed.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

How ironic that when we have sufficient age to know how to handle the questions, we also are old enough that churches aren't calling. :basic05

Ouch! My toes hurt!

[Laurie Florence]

I would go to my pastor and ask him if it was true. You can't always trust the word of a gossip. Often stories like these are the result of miscommunication and misreading of events. I would not believe the story until I had spoken to my pastor - or maybe his wife :) - and had it confirmed.

[Michael B. Ross]

Maybe they are calling, but we don't hear the phone ring.
How ironic that when we have sufficient age to know how to handle the questions, we also are old enough that churches aren't calling. :basic05

[Dennis M. Scott]

Maybe they are calling, but we don't hear the phone ring.


I'm sorry, what'd you say?

[Barb Bouldrey]

What is really aggrevating is when other pastors "tell what they know" about pastoral changes.

Our phone rang one day in Iberia and a nearby Nazarene pastor said, "John, I hear you are moving. Where are you going and when?"

John asnwered, "Bob you tell me where and when since I do not know that I am moving."

And then John asked Bob who had told him. I had called John while he was at pastor's retreat(a business retreat just for the pastors, not spouses) and told him he had to be home at 1:30 for a long distance call. John told the group he was eating breakfast with that he was leaving the retreat early so he could be home for a long distance call at 1:30.

From there, that little group of friends speculated and spread that John had a call to another district. A few weeks later, Bob called.

Sometimes the pastor's grapevine can be just as bad as any gossip grapevine.

What is very interesting...and off the subject....we have pastored relatives in the same family in 3 pastorates in a row. I was so shocked when we moved here to discover twin sisters who were cousins to one of our families in Iberia, who had cousins and uncles in our pastorate in Bernie. Eveidently they do not keep in close contact with one another because none of them ever knew we were moving until John read his resignation.

If someone says, "I hear your pastor interviewed at -----," it causes questions and doubts and dissatisfaction to arise and no one keeps information like that to themselves.

OH, this happened to use 3 times. The 2 I have already mentioned that were totally false and another one that was false.

In our second pastorate, I had Stephen in December and had gallbladder surgery in February. In April we had a 2 week revival that ran late every night. When school ended in May I was so exhausted from recuperating from childbirth AND surgery and caring for a newborn that I asked John if we could just go home to our parents for a couple of weeks so I could rest and let the grandmas take care of Stephen.

We went home the first 2 weeks of June. John told the board one week and we left the next.

One lady decided that we were really looking for another pastorate closer to our families and shared her opinion.

In July, John asked to step down from teaching the teens, because he has never felt like he was a good teacher. AHA! That was another "sign" that we were moving. And she shared that information.

By the September board meeting everyone was waiting for him to resign. And, they had been collecting a list of "motes" against John. They shredded him in that board meeting with such things as "the weeds around the church are not cut down often enough," and "when are YOU going to paint the parsonage?"

When they finally finished their list of gripes, he asked what the root of this was and someone finally said, "Well, someone said that you were in Ohio looking for a new pastorate. Is it true?"

They let it fester 3 months and then it blew up. Our ministry was over. The revival a few weeks later was a disaster.

We did move...the next March...but not to Ohio(EAST) but to Missouri (WEST.) And we have been in MO. 31 years.

See what gossip concerning pastoral change can do to harm a ministry?

Barb

[Dave McClung]

I was asked to post these questions by an individual who wishes to remain anonymous:A question for laypeople: What would you do if you found out that the biggest gossip in the church is spreading the word that your pastor has interviewed at another church on the district? Would you be the one to call the pastor and let him know that his "secret" is spreading like wildfire through the congregation? If so, how long would you wait? Would you call as soon as you heard and drop this news on him or would you wait for an opportune moment?


For pastors (and wives): What would you hope that a layperson who loves you would do when this news came across the grapevine?


Your question would make a great law school question because there are two issues combined into one:

1) The person who is spreading the rumor is a "gossip."

2) The subject of the rumor is that the pastor is interviewing at another church.

Assuming that it was my pastor involved, I would react entirely differently if I believed the rumor or didn't believe the rumor. If I learned that my pastor was in fact interviewing at another church, I would:
1) Immediately open a conversation with the pastor about the decision.
2) I would assure the pastor that my postive regard for him isn't dependent on whether he stays or gos.
3) I would say in terms that he could not misunderstand, "I hope you stay here."
4) I would invite discussion about what my church would need to do to keep him. I would not accept, "I am only seeking God's will." While that is true, there are always underlying issues that might influence the situation.
5) I don't see any inconsistency with my being an advocate for my own church and praying for the Lord's will.
6) If the pastor decides to move, I will do my best to see that the transition is a smooth one. I will wish him the best, but will switch my allegiance to our new pastor.

If I don't believe the rumor, I would still let my pastor know so that he can do rumor control.

[Billie Goodson]

Hmm...ok, we haven't covered this eventuality --

What if we want to start a rumor about the pastor leaving in hopes that it comes about?:eek:


Please -- understand I said that with a lot of "devil's advocate" in my heart. I am really just kidding...we would never want a pastor to leave.....

(Please, do not construe that to mean I want my current pastor gone, we would be without a pitcher on the softball team and that would really hurt us now....) BTW -- our current pastor has been at the church for about 20 years. We deeply love him and his family -- his adult children are some of the best examples of Christian upbringing I have ever seen. Four wonderful and capable Christian servants is how I would describe his children. He is a wonderful and God-centered Christian man, and his wife is better than all of them. So, please do not take this to mean I was being serious about "my" pastor...just what if? :fav18

[Joel Merrill]

[quote=Billie Goodson;77894

Please -- understand I said that with a lot of "devil's advocate" in my heart. I am really just kidding[/quote]

The devil doesn't need an advocate :basic03

Joel :fav12

[Scott Hilton]

I would equate this as to how you would want to handle rumors at the workplace and that is normally a good idea to squash them as quick as possible. This is of course coming from a persons view that does not have a lot of church history in his life, but does have a good amount of work history. Rumors can break down production and function in the workplace, it can become the main focus. I would think, especially a rumor about the head pastor, could cause havoc in the church. I would be apt to go ahead and give them a heads up about it.

[Carol Kane]

The Nazarene grapevine reaches far and wide. Sometimes the grapevine trancends denominations, then it is really sticky.

As a Pastors Wife my DH and I were always advised to "covertly" look, never trust a peer and never, ever tell "your people"
(Come on Pastors and spouses, do not tell me you don't know what I am talking about:rolleyes: ). Mr husband and I would want to be the first to know if a rumor or the truth had gotten back to one of our congregation members regarding a pastoral change on our part. In the same respect we would also want to know if a lay person had decided it was time to move to another church whether rumor or truth.

[Dave McClung]

Would you call as soon as you heard and drop this news on him or would you wait for an opportune moment?






I would check NazNet first to see if it had been posted here.

[Barb Bouldrey]

Carol....

DH....Designated Hitter? Dear Husband?

Billie.....

I love it when someone posts a joke and then has to make sure we know it is a joke. Your expression of love for your pastor was as cute to me as your question.

Dave....

You got that right!

LOL

Barb

[Laurie Florence]

What if we want to start a rumor about the pastor leaving in hopes that it comes about?:eek:


This is a joke, right? Because I don't understand how any christian person would choose to handle this situation in such a manner. Gossip is a form of bullying that is often used by people who seek an inappropriate amount of control over others.

There is no place for it in the church, under any circumstance.

[Billie Goodson]

Billie.....

I love it when someone posts a joke and then has to make sure we know it is a joke.

Barb

Barb, see below....yes, I feel the need to make sure people understand a post in jest is strictly that. However, that does not mean it would never happen. To assume that all people in church are Christians, or always behave as others think Christians should would be a bad assumption.

This is a joke, right? Because I don't understand how any christian person would choose to handle this situation in such a manner. Gossip is a form of bullying that is often used by people who seek an inappropriate amount of control over others.

[Billie Goodson]

However, if the Pastor does not show up for our game tonight at 8:30 -- I might start a few rumors about him. ;)

[Mike Schutz]

I was asked to post these questions by an individual who wishes to remain anonymous:
A question for laypeople: What would you do if you found out that the biggest gossip in the church is spreading the word that your pastor has interviewed at another church on the district? Would you be the one to call the pastor and let him know that his "secret" is spreading like wildfire through the congregation? If so, how long would you wait? Would you call as soon as you heard and drop this news on him or would you wait for an opportune moment?

For pastors (and wives): What would you hope that a layperson who loves you would do when this news came across the grapevine?



As a pastor: I hope that the person would come to me immediately and ask. Of course, I would tell them the truth.

I have told my staff (who would be directly affected by the situation) that I will tell them if my name ever goes to a congregation for a vote, but that I will not tell them if I simply have a conversation with a board or a search committee. It is a long way from a conversation with a search committee and actually leaving.

Once folks on a search committee talk to me, most wouldn't want me anyway. :fun06

[Barb Bouldrey]

Billie,

Evidently a couple of people did not read your entire post to see that you said, "I am just kidding."

We are all guilty of speed reading at times. I have done it and misread someone's words.

Hope your pastor showed up. LOL

Barb

[Carol Kane]

Barb:

That would be Dear Husband, though at times on the church softball team he was a disignated hitter:basic03

Dave: Yup, Naznet I have been warned "is read by almost every DS and is one of the tools of the Nazarene grapevine". Course my question to that person was how would he/she know?

[Billy Cox]

For purposes of this discussion, anyone who lives in the pastor's home is NOT a layperson.

[Carol Kane]

I agree Billy, cause we have the view from both sides of that pulpit and if my husband is on the other side of that pulpit preaching or pastoring, I always side with him.:p

[David Pettigrew]

Hmm...ok, we haven't covered this eventuality --

What if we want to start a rumor about the pastor leaving in hopes that it comes about?:eek: :fav18

And herein lies the root of the issue. Pastor, if you're church is spreading rumors that you are leaving, it's usually wishful thinking on their part. Not because they don't like you. There is a mentality in our churches that the three "Bs" (bodies, budgets, and buildings) are directly tied to who the pastor is. If attendance or giving is down, let's get a better, younger, smarter pastor, and numbers will shoot right up!

In a former church, I had someone I trusted and thought was one of my biggest supporters tell people that I had confided in him that I was leaving after the beginning of the year. It wasn't true. But once word got out, some folks started thinking maybe it wasn't such a bad idea! I confronted this person. He gave no explanation, and, to this day, I'm not sure what his motivation was. We stayed there six more months.

It's a good thing we're all sanctified. Imagine how we'd treat each other if we were carnal!

[Joel Merrill]

This pastor says, "bring it on". If it's true, I'll tell you why, when and where. If it's not true, I'll give you the facts.

This begs attention to a larger point. In The Purpose Driven Church, Rick Warren tells us a survey of the 100 largest evangelical churches in America. The one and only common thread of these largest churches was the longevity of its Senior Pastor. In our denomination, according to what I have read, the average stay of pastors is under five years. Is there a connection between this statistic and the fact that our average congregation numbers under 100?

What do you think?

I belong to another holiness denomination. One of the few differences in that denomination is that pastors are appointed. They are never voted on by the congregation. Pastors tend to stay longer. I haven't been with this denomination long enough to really have a feel on how well this works but I like the idea better.

Joel

[Billie Goodson]

And herein lies the root of the issue. Pastor, if you're church is spreading rumors that you are leaving, it's usually wishful thinking on their part. Not because they don't like you. There is a mentality in our churches that the three "Bs" (bodies, budgets, and buildings) are directly tied to who the pastor is. If attendance or giving is down, let's get a better, younger, smarter pastor, and numbers will shoot right up!



I would disagree -- it is not always wishful thinking, sometimes fearful thinking. Being a realist, which some describe as pessimist -- I can identify with those people who express dread of a situation, and the pastor leaving could be just one of those situations. Especially, when there has been talk of how many pastors have moved on the district. I think the idea that it could be wishful thinking is just as damaging as the uncontrolled rumor itself.

[Billie Goodson]

And, yes Barb -- the pastor showed up...it helped that we met and he rode with me to the game. I did pose this question to him (about the rumor of "his" leaving) -- you should have seen the look that I got! Then I explained the source of the rumor -- I told him "I heard it on Naznet!"