Authentic Worship

[Phil Michaels]

Hey Naznetters!

I always appreciate your feedback, so I thought I'd post a link to my personal blog where I have posted a "sermon" that I wrote for a class I just completed in the master's program I am enrolled in at NNU (http://www.nnu.edu)

I don't necessarily consider it the best thing I've ever written, but, if anyone has the time to read it, I'd love to know what you think anyway. Anytime I can get good constructive feedback I will take it, and I know there are a number of you that are very good at giving such feedback. Also feel free to say things like "it stinks!" Nothing wrong with that either...I can take it! :basic07

You'll find it at the link for being transformed... (http://postmodernhope.blogspot.com/2007/03/authentic-worship.html#links)

Blessings,

[Barbara Moulton]

I liked your sermon very much Phil. I voted "other" because the only option for saying it was "good" also involved a request to call you.

But if our church called you, my husband would be out of a job so I couldn't very well check that box now could I? :)

Seriously, authentic worship has been very much on my heart for many years now. Thanks for taking the time to post the link.

Many blessings,
Barbara

[Bob Jones]

Just some dialog thoughts...

Romans 1:18 ff is a negative expression of real religion. Presumably, God would not be angry if we acknowledged Him as God and gave Him thanks.

I think your quote of Hebrews 10:1 missed the punchline of Heb 11:1. The law is a shadow of "the kingdom of God" and faith is the essential nature of the kingdom.

Then Jesus said that we should be reconciled with each other before worshiping...

Then the order of presentation of the sacrifices in Lev 1-6 suggests that we cannot worship until sin has been dealt with. So if we confess, are forgiven and cleansed from all unrighteousness, we are in a position we can start to worship.

So I am guessing, that when you say "authentic" that you mean we should be acknowledging God, giving Him thanks, trusting Him to rule His universe and forgiving each other, and confessing our sins... then we are authentic in worship.

Lacking any one, I'm not sure what authenticity means. Can you worship if you are un-trusting, un-thankful, unforgiving or unrepentant?

You composition is good, but as you can see, my preference in a sermon would be to quote the scriptures as opposed to quoting other people.

I thank God for your desire to share.

[Phil Michaels]

Romans 1:18 ff is a negative expression of real religion. Presumably, God would not be angry if we acknowledged Him as God and gave Him thanks.

I didn't use this scripture in my sermon, so I wasn't sure where you were coming from. The way you have put it, I would venture a positive expression of this would be something along the lines of "The mercy of God is being revealed towards those who proclaim the truth with godliness and holiness." Your presumption seems to be true, I just wasn't sure where you were coming from. Help me out! :basic01

I think your quote of Hebrews 10:1 missed the punchline of Heb 11:1. The law is a shadow of "the kingdom of God" and faith is the essential nature of the kingdom.

I used the passage from Hebrews 10 as a pivot on which I could turn towards what I believe is the key scripture on worship and authenticity, Romans 12:1-2. I agree that Hebrews 11:1 could be inserted into my sermon and help to describe the differences between the old and new covenants. It would strengthen the sermon to add it in; however, I would still turn the sermon towards Romans 12:1-2 at this point.

Then Jesus said that we should be reconciled with each other before worshiping...Then the order of presentation of the sacrifices in Lev 1-6 suggests that we cannot worship until sin has been dealt with. So if we confess, are forgiven and cleansed from all unrighteousness, we are in a position we can start to worship.

But, as you suggested above, are we dealing with the old covenant (Leviticus) or the new covenant (Jesus)? Does Jesus require that we get our house in order before we come to Him, or when we come to Him does He get our house in order? I am not saying that God is not interested in us getting all our ducks in a row. I just think He is MORE interested in establishing loving relationship with us. THEN we can work on our ducks.

Can you worship if you are un-trusting, un-thankful, unforgiving or unrepentant?

Yes. Each of us in some ways (many ways?) do not trust, are not thankful, do not forgive, and do not repent. We are all on a journey, and all at differing points in the journey. In the process of transformation, none of us are perfect. God desires we offer Him our very selves in worship - He wants who we are as a sacrifice, not what we do. Worship is about God, and for our part, about who we are in posture before God. Can we give ourselves fully to God even if we aren't perfect? Yes.

You composition is good, but as you can see, my preference in a sermon would be to quote the scriptures as opposed to quoting other people.

Remember, as I noted, this is a sermon that had a number of technical requirements because it was a class assignment, and wasn't exactly the way I would have approached it or "done it myself" - but, it WAS close. I, too, love to tie the scriptures together and make good use of them when preaching/teaching. However, I don't pretend to be a master of them. What other people have learned and researched about the scriptures that I can find in commentaries and other resources is invaluable to fully understanding them. I'm not smart enough to know all the historical background, Greek and Hebrew, cultural influences, various interpretations throughout the years, etc. I need those who have faithfully and fruitfully done that work before me to help me do the work I need to do today. I don't think it is Bible vs. Interpretive Tools. The two can stand together in a properly "both/and" fashion.

Thanks again for your helpful, cosntructive, and well thought out feedback, Bob! I appreciate it.

[Phil Michaels]

I liked your sermon very much Phil. I voted "other" because the only option for saying it was "good" also involved a request to call you.

But if our church called you, my husband would be out of a job so I couldn't very well check that box now could I? :)

Seriously, authentic worship has been very much on my heart for many years now. Thanks for taking the time to post the link.

Many blessings,
Barbara

Barbara-

Thanks so much for your feedback! I guess I can understand the reasoning for your poll response! :basic05

You're welcome!

[Terri Knoll]

an elder came to me upon returning after years of attending another denom (for school purposes) and told me "the pastor preaches alot better now that he quits trying to give us a theology lesson" :eek:

so ya might want to rethink that sermon just in case you get "called" there lol

seriously, many blessings on your call.

Prayers in Florida,
Terri

[Bob Jones]

"Yes. Each of us in some ways (many ways?) do not trust, are not thankful, do not forgive, and do not repent. We are all on a journey, and all at differing points in the journey. In the process of transformation, none of us are perfect. God desires we offer Him our very selves in worship - He wants who we are as a sacrifice, not what we do. Worship is about God, and for our part, about who we are in posture before God. Can we give ourselves fully to God even if we aren't perfect? Yes. "

If we can worship God any way we want and in any condition we want, then to what purpose was the teaching of the law? God killed people who offered strange fire, the "meat" offering is not supposed to have leaven or honey, and "authenticity" changes the "truth of God" into the "truth of me".

"He wants who we are as a sacrifice, not what we do. "
Hmm... didn't he say he wants obedience, not sacrifice?

"Can we give ourselves fully to God even if we aren't perfect? Yes. "
Without arguing the point, in my mind anything short of "perfect" is short of "fully".

[Phil Michaels]

If we can worship God any way we want and in any condition we want, then to what purpose was the teaching of the law? God killed people who offered strange fire, the "meat" offering is not supposed to have leaven or honey, and "authenticity" changes the "truth of God" into the "truth of me".

I feel that you have completely missed the point and mis-represented what I said. Did I say "we can worship God any way we want and in any condition we want?" Absolutely not; I said nothing of the sort. Quite the contrary: The entire point of the sermon is to show exactly what the conditions for true worship are as laid out by Jesus in John chapter 4 (Worship is NOT about physical location, but about HEART location; Worship is directed to God alone; Worship is genuine, authentic, true, fully from the heart) and by Paul in Romans chapter 12 (Worship is giving my whole self to God in light of Him giving His whole self for me).

Is God more interested in "killing people" or in redeeming people? What is in His heart, and at the heart, and the point, of the law and the prophets? Jesus said they could all be summed by this: Love God, love yourself, love your neighbor. Did I miss the focus on killing people somewhere?

I would love for you to elaborate on your charge that " "authenticity" changes the "truth of God" into the "truth of me". Why do you say this? What does this mean?


(Phil wrote): "He wants who we are as a sacrifice, not what we do. "
Hmm... didn't he say he wants obedience, not sacrifice?

I spent some time looking for that Scripture. I couldn't find it. Would you point it out to me, for it seems to have escaped my search? Here is what I did find:


Psalm 40:6-7: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but my ears you have pierced, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require. Then I said, 'Here I am, I have come- it is written about me in the scroll. I desire to do your will, O my God"

Jesus was the better and perfect sacrifice because instead of making an old covenant offering He made a new covenant offering - His very self. As followers of Christ, He asks the same of us. That is why Romans 12:2, following up on Romans 12:1 which exhorts us to offer our bodies as living sacrifices, says that when do so we are transformed and will be able to live out God's will. This sounds like the Psalm above: Presenting ourselves as the sacrifice ("Here I am") results in following His will.


Psalm 51:17: "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise."


Hosea 6:6 (perhaps this is the one you were thinking of?): "I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgement of God rather than burnt offerings."


Matthew 9:12-13: "On hearing this, Jesus said: 'It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."


Matthew 12:7-8 (when the disciples were picking heads of grain and eating them on the Sabbath and Jesus was replying to the Pharisees who had complained they were breaking the law): "If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."


And finally, back to the Hebrews 10 passage that I used in the sermon. All of Hebrews 10 would be applicable here, as well as your good suggestion from earlier of Hebrews 11. But for the sake of time and space, I'll select one piece:

The writer has quoted from Psalm 40:6-7 above and attributed this to the Messiah, to Jesus. Then he says in Hebrews 10:8-10: "First he said, 'Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them' (although the law required them to be made). Then he said, 'Here am I, I have come to do your will.' He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once and for all."

From all these, and Romans 12:1-2, I have come to the conclusion, I believe correctly, that God wants us to offer ourselves to Him, and that as we do, He will make us holy and show us His will, and that obedience will flow from that in increasing measure. But perhaps I'm mistaken.


(Phil wrote): "Can we give ourselves fully to God even if we aren't perfect? Yes. "
in my mind anything short of "perfect" is short of "fully".

I haven't met anyone yet who is perfect. If "perfection" is what is required to give ourselves fully to God, and if giving ourselves fully to God is the only way to please Him on earth and spend eternity in Heaven, then I can quit the charade right now. I hope the perfect people I've never met and Jesus have a good time in Heaven.

Thanks again for your comments...they sent me searching into Scripture (always a good thing) and coming back convinced further of what it means to worship God (also a good thing).

[Bob Jones]

1Sa 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.


I'm sorry. I don't mean to misrepresent you. I am trying to clarify what "authentic" and "fully" mean.

So far as I understand, "authentic" in your mind has little to do with "acknowledging God, giving Him thanks, repenting..." and more to do with the attitude of the "worshipper".

What I don't understand is how they can be disconnected. Attitude, in my mind, is directly related to those things.

I haven't met anyone yet who is perfect. If "perfection" is what is required to give ourselves fully to God, and if giving ourselves fully to God is the only way to please Him on earth and spend eternity in Heaven, then I can quit the charade right now. I hope the perfect people I've never met and Jesus have a good time in Heaven.

This is a hyperbolic representation. I haven't made the claim about a requirement for perfection. I simply don't understand how you can use the term "give yourself fully" so easily and deny that the things listed above are not part of "fully".

The direct question that I have is, What is the meaning of "authenticity" and "fully"? Currently you are using them to define each other. I am simply probing with these ideas to get to the content of the word in your mind. "Authentic" and "fully" are wonderful words, but what do they mean?

Fully, at the moment, appears to be something less than fully, in your mind. So how much can be reserved and still be "fully"?

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

Very good, Phil. I enjoyed reading the sermon much. Just stay close to God, and be just as perfect, as you can with His help. Our intentions can be perfect. God knows our heart. He knows when we knew better, and when we did not know better. So, therefore, if we did something wrong that others may call sin, His blood covers, and it is not imputed against us.

[Billie Goodson]

Thanks Phil. I appreciate your putting your thoughts out here for us to read and contemplate on.

One thing that struck me about your sermon -- the "kiss toward". Two thoughts that came to mind when I read that section.

1 -- A Catholic friend of mine used the term once in talking about a part of a service as "adoration." That is the feeling I got as I read some parts of your sermon. We should adore God with our worship. Not just like, not just desire, but adore. An object of our adoration would command much of our passion, emotion, and conscious thought (probably even our unconscious thought as well).

2 -- What is the relevance (if any) of Jesus being betrayed by a kiss?