I don't really get Lent

[Barbara Moulton]

I admit that Lent wasn't part of my tradition growing up. The Salvation Army is about as far from a liturgical church as you can get. But the last 11 years I have had more exposure to the idea of Lent and I have really tried to understand and embrace it.

But when I go to a Lenten Luncheon on a beautiful Spring day and the speaker is urging introspection, repentance and sorrow (even as the sun streams gloriously through the stained glass windows, spilling colour on those gathered)...in my heart I am asking "why?"

When my dear friends from another tradition tell me that they don't say Alleluia during worship during Lent, I appreciate their tradition but don't quite understand it.

When others tell me of stripping their sanctuaries of all flowers I think, "What a shame."

When I think of the sacrifice of Christ my heart is filled with gratitude, not sorrow.

When I see the love of Christ poured out on Calvary I am overwhelmed by the grace of God which covers my sin. I am not overwhelmed by a need to turn over everything in my life to see if there any more sins that need to be confessed.

The Bible says that Christ endured the cross because of the joy that was set before Him. Sorrowful contemplation of the cross isn't as important to me as the celebration of the empty tomb.

When I get news like we received this week from Brad, my heart is filled with sadness and sorrow. Sandness and sorrow for the brokeness of this world which has resulted in diseases like cancer. Sadness for my friend who has to go through this. This happens throughout the seasons of life not just the season of Lent. But my sorrow is always tempered by the knowledge that we have a God who is walking with us through these difficult times..a God who understands our sorrow and brokeness.

When I fail God and His spirit convicts me, I repent and confess. This happens on a continual basis throughout my year. I don't understand why 40 days in the Springtime is focused on this.

Having said all that, I respect what it means to those of other traditions. I know that Lent is important to many wonderful Christian people and I would never do anything to disparage that. I will worship at the community Lenten services (and even conduct one :-) And in a hope that I will understand it more, I would love others to share their Lenten experience.

But if I were to make a confession today it would be that I fear Lent will never have the meaning for me that it does for others.

[David Pettigrew]

So thankful you brought this subject up! Lent is "new" in the Wesleyan-holiness tradition, though it's observance is increasing among us each year. I have personally observed Lent, and led my congregations in observing it, for about the last four years. When I say "observed", I mean it shapes the theme of our prayer and worship during that time, and I usually fast.

It's not about being sad. It's about journeying with Jesus to and through the cross, so that we might more fully appreciate and celebrate the resurrection. It's about denying myself, taking up the cross, and following Him.

Shouldn't we do this all year? Yes and no. Some folks say we should have Christmas all year, but I have a feeling it would lose it's signifigance if we did.

Think of Lent as a season. My favorite season is spring (despite my allergies), with all the flowers blooming and birds singing. I wouldn't have the flowers, however, if I didn't go through the bleakness of winter. And I find that bleakness has it's own beauty.

As I survey the wondrous cross during the lenten season, a wondrous beauty I see. I see it because I take the time to see it.

This is what Lent means to me.

[Andrea Larabee]

Have you read anything in this Lent thread?
Check out post # 7 by Scott Daniels


http://www.naznet.com/community/showthread.php?t=9807

[Barbara Moulton]

Thanks...yes...I had read that thread.

And I have relinquished a few things during Lent but my hope is that I won't be returning to them afterwards.

I have also talked to a few people who believe in taking on some new spiritual discipline or practice during this period. I must admit, this concept "speaks to my condition" (as my Quaker friend used to say) far more than giving something up.

As a result I have taken on a faithbook (explained in the woman's forum) and hope to have it completed by the time Easter arrives.

[Bob Carabbio]

You said:

"But the last 11 years I have had more exposure to the idea of Lent and I have really tried to understand and embrace it."

The quick question to me would be "Why???" Why bother with something that's totally artificial, insufferably religious, and recognizably alluded to in the Word in negative context. And on top of everything else, it gets kicked off to begin with with an immoral, peverted, drunken orgy.

To me it's covered in Paul's Col 3:

20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a show of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Not saying that millions of folks and MANY churches make a big thing out of nothing in this regard, but there's no "Christian necessity" to even notice the lenten season (other than for the Paczkis if you happen to live around Polish folks). It's just like any other time of the year, and a whole lot LESS intrusive that the Christmas fiasco.

BUT - some folks really enjoy bells, smells, and traditions so, as long as they don't attach unreasonable levels of religious significance to the whole thing, nor get too wasted during Fat Tuesday, no damage done.

[Barbara Moulton]

It's not about being sad. It's about journeying with Jesus to and through the cross, so that we might more fully appreciate and celebrate the resurrection. It's about denying myself, taking up the cross, and following Him.


Interesting. Thanks for your response.

I must admit that most of what I hear from my liturgical friends focuses on confession, repentance and sorrow.

The theme for this year's lenten services in our town is "going into the wilderness".

It just doesn't resonate in my heart.

But reflecting on the cross and its meaning does.

[Barbara Moulton]

You said:

"But the last 11 years I have had more exposure to the idea of Lent and I have really tried to understand and embrace it."

The quick question to me would be "Why???"


Because it does have meaning to all of my Anglican, Roman Catholic, United, Presbyterian friends (and a growing number of Nazarene and Wesleyan friends).

These are people who I care about deeply. Working in chaplaincy at the hospital has put me in relationship with many individuals from other faith traditions. I see the heart of Jesus in their lives and I want to share with them.

Because of my background I might not be able to understand or appreciate Lent the way they do. But that doesn' t mean I shouldn't at least try.

[Barb Bouldrey]

I think it is very interesting that some of our younger, newer pastors and associates are creating an interest in Lent and people are drawn to it.

Along with other traditional areas of worship I see some younger congregations returning to some very traditional things, like Lent.

People today, of all ages, still have something within that draws them to want to know God and Christ. Lent, when lead as a deeply spiritual journey, helps them know Christ more deeply.

Barb

[Cindi Hammons]

Not everyone who participates in a Fat Tuesday party does so with a drunken orgy.

[David Pettigrew]

Not everyone who participates in a Fat Tuesday party does so with a drunken orgy.

Lutherans have a pancake supper on Fat (or Shrove) Tuesday. Now that's a litergical observance that Nazarenes could get into!

[Barbara Moulton]

Lutherans have a pancake supper on Fat (or Shrove) Tuesday. Now that's a litergical observance that Nazarenes could get into!

Oddly enough, my mom always used to make pancakes on Shrove Tuesday.

[Laurie Florence]

Lent is not about walking around sorrowful and despondent. It's about refocussing on your commitment to Jesus. You may choose to give something up in order to remind yourself that, at the end of the day, all you really need is Jesus. In the course of our daily lives, we can get busy and begin to rely on different things. Lent gives us a time to slow down and get rid of some things that distract us from what is most important.
Some people don't give actual things up, but will give up attitudes that don't mesh well with who they are in Christ.
Lent is really a spiritual journey in which we become closer to Jesus.

[Barbara Moulton]

Thanks Laurie. That certainly is the theme that I am hearing in this thread. And I can truly appreciate Lent as a spiritual journey in which we become closer to the Lord. That is always the aim of my heart.

I do think that some traditions have a more sorrowful take on it though. (For example...not saying Alleluia during Lent.) I seem to hear quite a bit about the mourning of the sins for which Christ died for example.

But I always want to walk in the footsteps of Christ. I always want to be on a spiritual journey with Him..no matter what time of year it is.

Blessings to all,
Barbara



Lent is not about walking around sorrowful and despondent. It's about refocussing on your commitment to Jesus. You may choose to give something up in order to remind yourself that, at the end of the day, all you really need is Jesus. In the course of our daily lives, we can get busy and begin to rely on different things. Lent gives us a time to slow down and get rid of some things that distract us from what is most important.
Some people don't give actual things up, but will give up attitudes that don't mesh well with who they are in Christ.
Lent is really a spiritual journey in which we become closer to Jesus.

[Paul Ferguson]

Thanks Laurie. That certainly is the theme that I am hearing in this thread. And I can truly appreciate Lent as a spiritual journey in which we become closer to the Lord. That is always the aim of my heart.

I do think that some traditions have a more sorrowful take on it though. (For example...not saying Alleluia during Lent.) I seem to hear quite a bit about the mourning of the sins for which Christ died for example.

But I always want to walk in the footsteps of Christ. I always want to be on a spiritual journey with Him..no matter what time of year it is.

Blessings to all,
Barbara

Dear Barbara,
Perhaps this will help. Lent was initially observed by Roman Catholics who have formed the basics involved with it's celebration. A Catholic acquaintance of mine pointed out that although the 40 day Lent season ends at around Good Friday/Easter, it is meant to re-create or imitate or observe Christ's 40 days in the wilderness as He began His ministry.

God Bless,
Paul

[Barbara Moulton]

Dear Barbara,
Perhaps this will help. Lent was initially observed by Roman Catholics who have formed the basics involved with it's celebration. A Catholic acquaintance of mine pointed out that although the 40 day Lent season ends at around Good Friday/Easter, it is meant to re-create or imitate or observe Christ's 40 days in the wilderness as He began His ministry.

God Bless,
Paul


Yes, I understand that. I think Lent will never connect with my spirit as it does with others but I appreciate the opportunity to talk with you all about it.


Blessings,
Barbara

[Jerry Frank]

The quick question to me would be "Why???" Why bother with something that's totally artificial, insufferably religious, and recognizably alluded to in the Word in negative context. And on top of everything else, it gets kicked off to begin with with an immoral, peverted, drunken orgy.

<SNIP>

BUT - some folks really enjoy bells, smells, and traditions so, as long as they don't attach unreasonable levels of religious significance to the whole thing, nor get too wasted during Fat Tuesday, no damage done.


Bob,

I strongly object to your characterization of the Lenten season. I have observed this season for my entire 59 years and NEVER once kicked it off with an immoral, perverted, drunken orgy. You take the actions of unchurched, mostly non-Christian people and imply that this is the norm for the Christian observance of Lent. That is unfair and unkind.

You state that MY worship and practice experience is artificial and insufferably reglious. There is NOTHING about my worship of my Lord and Saviour at any time, whether Lent or other, that is artifical and insufferably religious. Again you have been unfair and unkind.

My observance of Lent has NOTHING to do with bells, smells, or traditions. It is a time of year which I set aside to think on Christ and on my response to Him in certain ways.

So if you want to express how you do not observe times of the church year, fine. But please do not disparage it for those of us who use it as part of our worship practice.

Jerry

[Charles W Christian]

Hi, Folks -
Perhaps Karl Barth summarized it best:
Without a true death, there is not resurrection.
This addresses at least part of the Lenten season, especially Holy Week.

We may choose to observe these elements in order to full appreciate (and better, if not perfectly, understand) the mission of Christ and our mission as well.

Just a thought. . . .

Charles
:fav18

[Edith K. Thurmond]

Dear Barbara, you asked for our experiences regarding Lent and my response is not to change anyone's mind but to merely recount what its observance has meant in my life throughout the last 12 years.

I admit that Lent wasn't part of my tradition growing up. Nor mine. The Salvation Army is about as far from a liturgical church as you can get. But the last 11 years I have had more exposure to the idea of Lent and I have really tried to understand and embrace it.

But when I go to a Lenten Luncheon on a beautiful Spring day and the speaker is urging introspection, repentance and sorrow (even as the sun streams gloriously through the stained glass windows, spilling colour on those gathered)...in my heart I am asking "why?" It represents a protracted time for making sure that we keep 'short accounts' with God and happens to come before the time of Easter (which is in the spring). We still notice the flowers, still hear the birds, still go to work, still do family things, still do 'spring things' and still have friends die. Several of us on this board have had that happen to one of our own and his funeral is to be on Good Friday afternoon. We still go to luncheons, gatherings with friends, and prayer times. We even had a guided DAY OF SILENCE at church and it was one of the beautiful spring highlights so far. One's senses are also heightened. All Sundays are days of rejoicing - no matter the season.

When my dear friends from another tradition tell me that they don't say Alleluia during worship during Lent, I appreciate their tradition but don't quite understand it. It goes back to that first Easter when "Alleluia, he is risen. He is risen indeed." was first spoken. Before that time, there was not a reason for saying that. There was true sorrow for their Lord was dead. During observance of Lent, we have not come to that glorious "Alleluia" moment yet. In our Christian life, yes, we have, but in the observance of Lent, we wait until Easter morning. Because we have waited, the "Alleluias" take on even greater significance. It is sheer joy when those 'Alleluias' are spoken!

When others tell me of stripping their sanctuaries of all flowers I think, "What a shame." Well, removing the flowers and beautiful things is but symbolic of the fact that there was no beauty in Christ's death. It is in commemoration of his death and he was stripped of everything. If Christ had not endured the shame of the Cross, you and I would not have any reason to know the beauty of that event that came because of his resurrection. So you see, when the flowers are removed and the altars are stripped, it is not the end. In three days, everything is very different! Breathing taking beauty that is almost indescribible. "Alleluia, he is risen; he is risen indeed!" The black American preacher said it so correctly in his oft-quoted sermon: IT'S FRIDAY..... BUT SUNDAY'S A COMIN!'

When I think of the sacrifice of Christ my heart is filled with gratitude, not sorrow. Mine is too; however, to try and feel a bit of the sorrow and suffering he endured, helps me to have a even greater degree of gratitude. One note of caution: If anyone is in deep depression, it would be my opinion that truly observing Lent would not be appropriate at that time nor would a sad movie or anything of that nature. Using good common sense in such matters is always prudent.

When I see the love of Christ poured out on Calvary I am overwhelmed by the grace of God which covers my sin. I am not overwhelmed by a need to turn over everything in my life to see if there any more sins that need to be confessed. Lent is MUCH more than just confessing sins.

The Bible says that Christ endured the cross because of the joy that was set before Him. Sorrowful contemplation of the cross isn't as important to me as the celebration of the empty tomb. Yes, he endured the cross because that joy would ultimately be attained. However, dying the way he did and taking on the sins of the whole world was suffering and agony. I need both the contemplation of the cross AND the celebration of the empty tomb.

When I get news like we received this week from Brad, my heart is filled with sadness and sorrow. Sandness and sorrow for the brokeness of this world which has resulted in diseases like cancer. Sadness for my friend who has to go through this. This happens throughout the seasons of life not just the season of Lent. But my sorrow is always tempered by the knowledge that we have a God who is walking with us through these difficult times..a God who understands our sorrow and brokeness. We all grieve with Brad and know that God is with him, indeed. In our dear friend's life, it is "IT'S FRIDAY.... BUT SUNDAY'S A COMIN" and that is only possible because of that very first Friday and Sunday. How we all love Brad and pray for his complete healing!

When I fail God and His spirit convicts me, I repent and confess. This happens on a continual basis throughout my year. I don't understand why 40 days in the Springtime is focused on this. Yes, I do too. That is what I John 1:9 tells us to do. A couple might do, on a routine basis, what is necessary to have a good marriage. However, they will at some points of time, take a longer time to be together that could even resemble their honeymoon. They still love in the ordinary time, but the special times are great, too. In the church calendar, most of our days are lived in Ordinary Time but I am truly thankful for the fast days and the feast days.

Having said all that, I respect what it means to those of other traditions. I know that Lent is important to many wonderful Christian people and I would never do anything to disparage that. I will worship at the community Lenten services (and even conduct one :-) And in a hope that I will understand it more, I would love others to share their Lenten experience. So done.

But if I were to make a confession today it would be that I fear Lent will never have the meaning for me that it does for others. I probably would have felt the same way if I had never actually gone through a Lenten season. Possibly, it is one of those things that a person has to actually experience to understand it at a deep level. Also, there are some people who tend to consistently think in a more sacramental way than others and they might be the ones more drawn to observing Lent.

Blessings to you,

[Laurie Florence]

I do come from a church background that observes lent. I agree that it brings us closer to Jesus, so I continue to observe it each year.
However, I do not understand why any church would prohibit the people from saying "Alleluia". My understanding is that it means "praise God". I think people should always feel free to praise God, regardless the season. So, unless I misunderstand the meaning of alleluia, I really don't get that part of Lent.

[Mark Metcalfe]

When I think of the sacrifice of Christ my heart is filled with gratitude, not sorrow.

When I see the love of Christ poured out on Calvary I am overwhelmed by the grace of God which covers my sin. I am not overwhelmed by a need to turn over everything in my life to see if there any more sins that need to be confessed.

The Bible says that Christ endured the cross because of the joy that was set before Him. Sorrowful contemplation of the cross isn't as important to me as the celebration of the empty tomb.


I am very sorry to be late to this discussion and admit to not reading the responses.

We talked a little about this on Easter Sunday evening in our House Church. Some said that when we focus solely (or over-emphasize) the Resurrection but miss or diminish the drama of the scourging and the Cross - a place where we should rightfully be instead of Him - that we cannot fully appreciate the price that was paid for us. It is easy in retrospect to say "It's Friday, but Sunday's a-coming." Jesus is risen, so let's not relive the horrible events that preceded it. To the contrary, Lent focuses on humanity and the realities of suffering so that we may identify with Him. When we give something up for Lent, we do so to strengthen our spiritual discipline (which I confess is much weaker at other times of the year). Spiritual discipline heightens (or deepens) our sensitivity. When the hunger of fasting urges satisfaction, it is a reminder of why we fast and gives us the opportunity to pray, and to become stronger. It also reminds us of our mortality, and the mortality of Jesus who was put to death in a most painful way.

Yes, we celebrate the Resurrection, and that is the season we are in now,
through Pentecost Sunday. But during the season of Lent, we remember, just as communion is often a solemn rememberance of the body and blood of our Lord poured out for us.

At least, that is what the season of Lent means to me.

Mark

[Barbara Moulton]

We talked a little about this on Easter Sunday evening in our House Church. Some said that when we focus solely (or over-emphasize) the Resurrection but miss or diminish the drama of the scourging and the Cross - a place where we should rightfully be instead of Him - that we cannot fully appreciate the price that was paid for us. It is easy in retrospect to say "It's Friday, but Sunday's a-coming." Jesus is risen, so let's not relive the horrible events that preceded it.

I understand what you are saying. But the thing is, Scripture tells us that Jesus Himself focused on the joy that was set before Him.

I took place in the walk of the cross this year. This is an event that connects with my spirit. To walk down the main street of our town, with the cross ahead of us, testifies to my gratitude for what Christ did on the cross. I always hope that just one person driving past will see the cross and think about its meaning. The Walk of the Cross is my public testimony to Christ....but I don't focus on the pain and suffering of the cross...rather I focus on what the cross means to my salvation.

During the Lenten period that we just experienced, I did take time to prepare my heart. I led a Lenten service as part of our community worship. I brought some new disciplines into my life to help me focus on what Christ had done.

So I understand the focus and time of reflection...just not the sorrow.

Of course, I must be one of the few people who made a decision not to see "The Passion". Still haven't seen it. To me, focusing on the physical suffering of the cross, takes our thoughts away from the real truth of the cross. Jesus was not the only person who was crucified during those days. His suffering wasn't unique. The reason for that suffering was.

And maybe the really odd thing about me is that I don't become uniquely joyful on Easter Sunday either. I use the day to testify to my belief in the risen Lord but I serve a risen saviour everyday.

But I am willing to admit that maybe I am really just an odd duck. But God is good. :)

Thanks to everyone who participated in this thread. It was part of my Lenten experience this year and I appreciate it.

Blessings,
Barbara

[Gina Stevenson]

Well, now that Lent is over, on a lighter note, what I didn't "get" about Lent this year was "up & about to a fish dinner." Drove by that Catholic church a few blocks away how-many times again this year, seeing their sign about Friday fish dinners during Lent (we did that once in Phoenix & it was good).

Maybe next year ...................