Christ and being born again.

[Jeff Scott]

New poll. What do you think?

[Bruce Carriker]

I'm not sure your question really lends itself to a "yes or no" poll.

[Hans Deventer]

I voted no, because of several reasons:


I don't read in the Scriptures that "accepting Christ as your saviour" is what it takes to be born again. I thought it was, "repent and believe the gospel".

Accepting Christ (if you want to use that phrase) is something people do. To be born again (or born from above) is something God does in our lives.

[William Hunter]

I voted no, because of several reasons:


I don't read in the Scriptures that "accepting Christ as your saviour" is what it takes to be born again. I thought it was, "repent and believe the gospel".

Accepting Christ (if you want to use that phrase) is something people do. To be born again (or born from above) is something God does in our lives.


Good point, Hans. Maybe the question needs to be stated differently or more options given.

[Mark Metcalfe]

I voted no, because of several reasons:


I don't read in the Scriptures that "accepting Christ as your saviour" is what it takes to be born again. I thought it was, "repent and believe the gospel".

Accepting Christ (if you want to use that phrase) is something people do. To be born again (or born from above) is something God does in our lives.


Hans, isn't this splitting the hair a bit?

Sounds a bit like faith and works. Saved by faith alone, but without the
expression of faith (works), it is useless.

So, does God create spiritual lives without our first accepting His Truth?

Mark

[Hans Deventer]

Actually, I don't think I'm splitting hairs, Mark. The kind of thinking that equated our own actions with God's actions led to the altar theology, the "name it and claim it" thinking with all the misery it brought.

Of course it is God's prevenient grace that leads us to "repent and believe the gospel". But it is not good Wesleyan theology to equate prevenient grace with the New Birth.

[Mark Metcalfe]

Actually, I don't think I'm splitting hairs, Mark. The kind of thinking that equated our own actions with God's actions led to the altar theology, the "name it and claim it" thinking with all the misery it brought.

Of course it is God's prevenient grace that leads us to "repent and believe the gospel". But it is not good Wesleyan theology to equate prevenient grace with the New Birth.

I did not understand your reply, Hans.

Mark

[Hans Deventer]

I did not understand your reply, Hans.

Mark

The last one or the previous one?

[Dennis M. Scott]

For me, and for many others, the two have been simultaneous, but a life observations encourages me to respond that they are not the same thing. I've known individuals who have little trouble accepting that Christ is the Messiah/Saviour for them, but their lives indicate that they've not experienced the new birth. Some have said to me that although they know Jesus is their Messiah it really doesn't make any difference.

Their experience is considerably different than mine.

Most evangelical theologians allow that several different things happen at the "time of conversion."

[Ian Gentles]

I have gone for "no".
Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but Jesus was the Jewish Messiah, and Saviour to all including the gentiles.
Also, simple acceptance means little unless a deep and true work of God's Spirit has been done in our hearts. Many can make an emotional stand at big meetings, even Billy Grahan said that majority of those going foreward at his campaigns werent being truel saved!

[Chris Baker]

While I don't think they are the same thing, (as Hans points out, one is something we do and another is something God does), I think they are inextricably linked. One cannot truly be born again without accepting Jesus as their Messiah, and vice versa.

[Hans Deventer]

Chris,

I believe they are most certainly directly linked, yes. But that was not the question. The question was, are they the same. And they are not.
I was taught at school that reading the question properly is half of the good answer. :basic03

[Mark Metcalfe]

...I've known individuals who have little trouble accepting that Christ is the Messiah/Saviour for them, but their lives indicate that they've not experienced the new birth. Some have said to me that although they know Jesus is their Messiah it really doesn't make any difference.

Their experience is considerably different than mine.

Most evangelical theologians allow that several different things happen at the "time of conversion."

Thanks, Dennis. This makes the distinction a bit more clear.

I was using the word "accepting" not as an acknowlegement, but as
a commitment. When I hear or read "accepting Christ as Savior," I
understand it to mean placing Christ in Lordship and as such, that is
the new birth -- because I cannot say "I believe" without the convincing
and initiation of the Holy Spirit. Simultaneous.

Demons "accept" that Christ is God, so if one takes the word to mean
"acknowledge" then there is a marked distinction between accepting
and new birth.

Mark

[Chris Baker]

I believe they are most certainly directly linked, yes. But that was not the question. The question was, are they the same. And they are not.
I was taught at school that reading the question properly is half of the good answer. :basic03

Most definitely! Of course I am always the seminary student who questions the meaning of every word in the question before he can answer it. Yep, looking into things too deeply--I do it like it's my job. :fav03