Sponsored by the City of Nampa, Idaho

[Jim Franklin]

The God and Country Festival from July 1 through July 4th which has been an annual event for about 40 years or more and has included an Air Force fly over for all of the years except last year and this year due to policy changes forced by the current administration. How deplorable. Y'all come, ja hear. The main emphasis is to honor all who are now serving or ever have served in our nation's military forces.

[Chuck Wilkes]

The Pentagon explanation (at least as reported by the Nampa paper) did seem like a stretch to me. Maybe you could get MAF to do the flyover for you.

[David Pettigrew]

What's the "God" part?

[Wayne Paul]

The God and Country Festival from July 1 through July 4th which has been an annual event for about 40 years or more and has included an Air Force fly over for all of the years except last year and this year due to policy changes forced by the current administration. How deplorable. Y'all come, ja hear. The main emphasis is to honor all who are now serving or ever have served in our nation's military forces.

I don't believe it is accurate to state that the Rally is sponsored by the City of Nampa. Here is the list of sponsors (http://www.godandcountryfestival.com/2010-sponsors/).

Here is the program (http://www.godandcountryfestival.com/).

[Jim Franklin]

Wayne, that is just the way it was reported on the news that I heard. The lists largely represents the power structure of Nampa, ID.

[Hal Paul]

Meh, flyovers are overrated.

[Wayne Paul]

Wayne, that is just the way it was reported on the news that I heard. The lists largely represents the power structure of Nampa, ID.

Jim, It may represent the people in power; however, it isn't an official city event and should not be stated as such.

Use of military aircraft for this occasion is not appropriate. I've have said it before that the decision to not authorize a flyover is exactly the decision I would have made in this situation if I were still in the military and task with the responsibilities of making such decisions. Does that make me non-patriotic or non-Christian? I sure hope not!!

BTW, do you ever look at your "notifications?"

[Hal Paul]

In recent years the Air Force has undergone a lot of criticism for having a religious atmosphere dominated Christian Evangelical/Fundamentalism to the extent that nonchristians felt discriminated against. Based on my experiences at Air Force ceremonies when I was stationed on an Air Force base, I think there was reasonable cause for the discrimination complaints. I thought the flag folding ceremony (http://www.juntosociety.com/patriotism/flagfolding.htm) that was common at Air Force ceremonies was a bit overbearing in it's emphasis on Christian patriotic ideals (not to mention it's kind of hokey). I also was very uncomfortable while attending my cousin's graduation from Electronic Warfare School when the school commander spoke to the graduates like they were new ordinands who were "going out to do God's word" (he repeated this several times). The Air Force Academy also went through a period of review because for a time it had an atmosphere that was openly hostile to those of other (non-evangelical/fundamentalist) faiths.

The Air Force was confronted with a series of equal opportunity complaints, and lawsuits that eventually led the Secretary of Defense to order it to make changes to create a more pluralistic environment in the service (I think he fired a few generals in this process). Part of that was that it built or modified chapel facilities to support worship by people of non-christian faiths, and to eliminate overtly Christian themed ceremonies like the one for folding the flag, or modify them to appeal to a pluralistic audience. They also had to review all public affairs and community events that they supported and withdraw from those whose stated purposes and expressions were overtly religious in nature. Nampa's God and Country Day falls into that last category.

While I don't know the exact timeline, I was aware of some of the lawsuits during the Bush administration, and I know that at least one was ruled on resulting in the Air Force implementing changes long before Obama had even declared his candidacy. However lame the service's response to the questions of why it isn't supporting the God and Country event, the wheels were already in motion to discontinue these flyovers for religious themed events at least five years ago.

[Hal Paul]

The lists largely represents the power structure of Nampa, ID.

U.S. Army Recruiting, Wells Fargo, Little Man Auto, Brown Bus Co., X-L Hospice, Lifeline Pregnancy and Deer Flat Church represent the power structure of Nampa? Really?

I think NNU should withdraw as a sponsor for future events, there's too much mixing American patriotism with Christianity in this event.

[Paul DeBaufer]

U.S. Army Recruiting, Wells Fargo, Little Man Auto, Brown Bus Co., X-L Hospice, Lifeline Pregnancy and Deer Flat Church represent the power structure of Nampa? Really?

I think NNU should withdraw as a sponsor for future events, there's too much mixing American patriotism with Christianity in this event.

Amen!!!!!

[John F Martin]

The Pentagon explanation (at least as reported by the Nampa paper) did seem like a stretch to me. Maybe you could get MAF to do the flyover for you.

Right on Chuck, I think the MAF flyover would be cool -- since their worlwide mission support is based right there in Nampa! OK, and on the list of sponsors...Does anyone else find it ironic that the US Army is listed as a sponsor? Maybe it's all a military branch rivalry!:ihe_cowboy:

[Hal Paul]

Right on Chuck, I think the MAF flyover would be cool -- since their worlwide mission support is based right there in Nampa! OK, and on the list of sponsors...Does anyone else find it ironic that the US Army is listed as a sponsor? Maybe it's all a military branch rivalry!:ihe_cowboy:

Um, what world wide mission support base is in Nampa, Idaho? The only Air Force assets I know of in the state are the Air Guard at Gowan Field in Boise, and Mountain Home AFB in Mountain Home.

Lets be clear on the service sponsor, it's Army Recruiting, and with the joint nature of military operations, I doubt the USAF would be so petty as to not do a flyover of an event because Army recruiters happen to be on the ground, after all the USAF is the service that gets the Army to the fight.

[John F Martin]

Hal,

I believe Chuck's earlier reference to MAF -- and mine -- was to Mission Aviation Fellowship, Nampa, Idaho. That's who I'm referring to that has a worldwide mission. Different kind of fly-over, granted, but I saw the embedded humor in Chuck's idea. I think it's a pretty cool idea!

[Wayne Paul]

Um, what world wide mission support base is in Nampa, Idaho? The only Air Force assets I know of in the state are the Air Guard at Gowan Field in Boise, and Mountain Home AFB in Mountain Home.

... Snip...


Hal, MAF stands for Mission Aviation Fellowship (http://www.maf.org/). You visited their headquarters that last time you were in town.

Chuck, I am not for sure that it would be in MAF's best interest as an international NGO to affiliate their organization with something as nationalistic as this festival.

[Hal Paul]

Hal,

I believe Chuck's earlier reference to MAF -- and mine -- was to Mission Aviation Fellowship, Nampa, Idaho. That's who I'm referring to that has a worldwide mission. Different kind of fly-over, granted, but I saw the embedded humor in Chuck's idea. I think it's a pretty cool idea!

Oh, yeah right, I forgot about them. Been in the hangar, seen the airplanes, actually been assigned to units that flew some of the same type, a flyover from them would be a real snoozer.

[John F Martin]

Oh, yeah right, I forgot about them. Been in the hangar, seen the airplanes, actually been assigned to units that flew some of the same type, a flyover from them would be a real snoozer.

Well, granted. The snoozer is part of the humor, I suppose. I worked at LeTourneau University for 9 years, and many of their alumni across time have gone to work for MAF. In fact one of the current MAF leaders, Dave? Fyock, is a LeTU grad.

[Hal Paul]

Hal, MAF stands for Mission Aviation Fellowship (http://www.maf.org/). You visited their headquarters that last time you were in town.

Yeah, I just didn't process the acronym.


Chuck, I am not for sure that it would be in MAF's best interest as an international NGO to affiliate their organization with something as nationalistic as this festival.

Yes, most international NGOs want to distance themselves as much as possible from the USG. When they get too close they often become targets.

[Wayne Paul]

587

Maybe we could hook up three gliders behind a single tow-plane and really put everyone to sleep.