Windows Vista?

[Michael B. Ross]

I bought a new Dell laptop in February with XP. The purchase included a free upgrade to Vista. It came yesterday. I am in a dilemma whether I should install Vista or not. The laptop is fully capable of handling Vista, and my printers can be updated for Vista.

I know upgrades don't always go well. Should I try upgrading? Is it worth the risk? Have any of you installed Vista?

[Jonathan Long]

What programs do you use and wil they run under Vista?

So far there are very few programs (other than Microsoft) that run well using Vista...

I've spent many hours removing Vista for clients because they discovered their favorite program wouldn't work or required an upgrade to work with Vista... Gotta love Microsoft... I could be working 20 hours a day....

Check to see if your programs will run using Vista before doing the upgrade!

Also check to see if you can do a "clean install" of Vista or if it must be installed over the existing OS. I don't like doing upgrades for the operating system, it always seem to be filled with problems... Sometimes all you need is the original OS disk to meet the upgrade requirements...

Jon

[Garth Lahana]

My 2c worth of advice...

I was a beta tester for Windows Vista, and got a free copy of it when it was send to manufacturing at the end of last year (Ulitmate). I de-installed it yesterday, and put XP back on my PC. There is no need to install it, unless you are someone who has an application that is specifically written for Vista. The only people that fall into that category will be hardcore gamers, as the newest games will be written to use DirectX 10, only available on Vista. Another minus was my new pc ran slower with Vista than with XP, and since I reinstalled XP yesterday that is very evident. The flashy see-though windows and effects, are in my opinion not worth it.

Garth

[Michael B. Ross]

Jonathan, Thank you! I had not thought about software issues. I was only thinking hardware. I just looked at the Vista package and it is labeled "Express Upgrade to Windows Vista." I take that as saying it is not a full installation.

I am staying with XP.

Thanks.

What programs do you use and wil they run under Vista?

So far there are very few programs (other than Microsoft) that run well using Vista...

I've spent many hours removing Vista for clients because they discovered their favorite program wouldn't work or required an upgrade to work with Vista... Gotta love Microsoft... I could be working 20 hours a day....

Check to see if your programs will run using Vista before doing the upgrade!

Also check to see if you can do a "clean install" of Vista or if it must be installed over the existing OS. I don't like doing upgrades for the operating system, it always seem to be filled with problems... Sometimes all you need is the original OS disk to meet the upgrade requirements...

Jon

[Bob Woolley]

My 2c worth of advice...

I was a beta tester for Windows Vista, and got a free copy of it when it was send to manufacturing at the end of last year (Ulitmate). I de-installed it yesterday, and put XP back on my PC. There is no need to install it, unless you are someone who has an application that is specifically written for Vista. The only people that fall into that category will be hardcore gamers, as the newest games will be written to use DirectX 10, only available on Vista. Another minus was my new pc ran slower with Vista than with XP, and since I reinstalled XP yesterday that is very evident. The flashy see-though windows and effects, are in my opinion not worth it.

Garth

Recently my son applied as tech support to a company here called "Convergys" which is a support company for other companies, Mircosoft is one of them. So he applied and got excepted signing the contract to start training for the new Vista program in a few weeks. Those weeks went by and nothing!! Then one day, four weeks ago, Convergys called to say they would not be training anyone else for the new Vista program in the near future. We heard through the grapevine that Vista is not selling well (I wonder why?) and therefore no support people are needed. Of course, it could be the other way around, meaning, Vista is so good, that you don't need many support people.

I prefer to think that "it is not selling well" and therefore, no need for support help until more customers buy a new computer with it installed.

Also did you hear that Dell is offering to install Linux on their new computers if the customers wants it? It seems to me this will be something that Microsoft would not want to hear!

[Jerry Frank]

I am picking up my new Dell laptop in a couple of hours (Vista Home preinstalled). I will be installing my current favourite software (with trepidation) this weekend and will let know what happens.

Note I have gone with 2 gb RAM which my son recommended for running multiple applications at the same time. We were at a fund raiser a couple of weeks ago where they were trying to run both video and Power Point from the same Acer computer with Vista. It did work but there were a lot of synchronization and timing problems because of the slow performance.

Jerry

[Dave McClung]

I bought a new Dell laptop in February with XP. The purchase included a free upgrade to Vista. It came yesterday. I am in a dilemma whether I should install Vista or not. The laptop is fully capable of handling Vista, and my printers can be updated for Vista.

I know upgrades don't always go well. Should I try upgrading? Is it worth the risk? Have any of you installed Vista?

I just bought a new Dell notebook with Vista Preinstalled. The only problem I have had is getting an error message each time I boot up saying that one of the drivers (also preinstalled by Dell) won't work with Vista. It is a Roxio driver and I have had problems with them on my XP Computer too.

The feature of Vista that is causing me to consider updating my desktop to Vista too is the "Snyc" feature. If it works as advertised, it would automatically keep my data files on the laptop and my desktop in sync.

So far, I have not had any difficulty with my legacy programs running on Vista.

[Michael B. Ross]

Dave, is the sync feature comparable to the briefcase option on XP, except sync is automatic?

I just bought a new Dell notebook with Vista Preinstalled. The only problem I have had is getting an error message each time I boot up saying that one of the drivers (also preinstalled by Dell) won't work with Vista. It is a Roxio driver and I have had problems with them on my XP Computer too.

The feature of Vista that is causing me to consider updating my desktop to Vista too is the "Snyc" feature. If it works as advertised, it would automatically keep my data files on the laptop and my desktop in sync.

So far, I have not had any difficulty with my legacy programs running on Vista.

[Dave McClung]

Dave, is the sync feature comparable to the briefcase option on XP, except sync is automatic?

It has been a while since I used the briefcase feature. As I recall, briefcase works only with the files that are in the briefcase folder.

As I understand it, Vista can sync Outlook, Calendar, and MSMoney so that the data files on both computers will remain the same if I connect my laptop to the network each time I am at home. I am currently trying to keep them in snyc by copying the data files back and forth, but fairly often I need to grap the laptop and run. If I have not recently copied the Outlook *.pst file from the desktop to the laptop I don't capture all of the email history.

[Jerry Frank]

Well, I've had almost 2 days with Vista now - a little good, a lot of bad.

I like the feel and appearance of Vista. There is a little difference in the way it handles files but I think one can get used to that with practice. One annoying feature is that if you let the cursor rest on a clickable item, it will open that item after a few seconds even if you do not click on it. Again, with practice, I suppose you can learn to not leave it on a link.

As has already been pointed out, software is the biggest problem. You will probably find patches available for new software that will allow it to work. Vista will, supposedly find those patches for you.

Roxio - Dave was having trouble with this. Originally I did not see a problem but after about my 6th boot up, Vista did report a problem. It then automatically did an Internet search for a solution and found a patch on the Roxio site. I downloaded that and it seems to be working now.

Firefox - seems to work fine without a problem.

GOOGLE Earth - seems to work fine but that should be expected since GOOGLE is an integral part of Vista.

Hoyle Card Games - seems to be working OK. This is a really old version.

Word Perfect 9 - Help file is not available. Locks up when you attempt to save a document. Essentially useless and doubtful that Corel will issue a patch since there are newer versions available.

QuattroPro 9 - Saves document OK. Locks up when you attempt to open a document. Double click on the saved file and it opens normally. Again, essentially useless. (Naznet apparently thinks that QuattroPro 9 is reference to Proverbs as it includes an automated link for it.)

Word 2003 - seems to work normally. However it would take awhile to test all the features.

Although I was able to access my home wireless network, I have not been able to see my desktop computer files or the printer. I have spent several hours trying to figure out how to connect as I should be able to see certain items and even transfer files back and forth. So far no luck.

I was planning to make this my primary computer with the desktop as backup but now I'm not sure that I will be able to.

Jerry

[Bob Wright]

One thing to note about file transfer is that the default workgroup for Vista is MSHOME. The default workgroup for XP is WORKGROUP. If you change your Vista machine to WORKGROUP you should be able to transfer files.

To do this you can follow the instructions in this article:
http://www.lockergnome.com/nexus/windows/2006/12/08/join-a-workgroup-in-vista/

[Steve Reece]

I have upgraded my laptop to Vista Business. At work I tested with Ultimate. For my personal stuff, all my productivity software runs fine. At work I had difficulty with some installers but once working around the quirks was able to use the software.

What I cannot do is run any of my games. So I right now I am thinking I will dual boot with both XP and Vista on my laptop. I don't do much gaming on my laptop - it does not have enough horsepower - but there are a few older network games that I like to play with others in my family.

If history is any guide, I would guess that things will be looking pretty good once the first service pack has been released. Whenever that is.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

I worked with a Vista laptop all afternoon and evening. It came pre-installed on the new laptop. I have almost the identical laptop running XP so the difference in performance was obvious. The Vista machine operated much more slowly than the XP.

I wrestled with it for several hours. One struggle was getting Outlook 2002 to install on it. The install went okay, but then Outlook was nowhere to be found. I finally used a Microsoft utility that is supposed to move programs from one computer to another. I managed to move Outlook (no data, just the program). It then ran okay.

Then I tried to sync a PDA with it and everything was broke again. Vista didn't like the PDA and wouldn't run the sync software for it. Apparently, it wanted Outlook to be the 2003 version and since it wasn't it wouldn't sync.

With the new laptop still working at such a slow pace and with some primary software not wanting to run on it I decided I had had enough Vista.

I pulled out an unused XP install disk and reformatted the hard drive on the new laptop. As I type this I am just finishing the update of that install. We'll see what drivers I will be missing now.

However, I know that Outlook 2002 and other software I run will work with XP.

[Brad Mercer]

I haven't read the whole thread so someone may have already noted this, but Vista is apparently sufficiently flawed and unpopular that Dell, after first offering only Vista on it's computers, has now backtracked and offers buyers a choice between Vista and XP.

Brad

[Michael B. Ross]

Scott, Brad and others:

Thanks for your posts. I am staying away from Vista. All the reviews I have read say that Vista runs slower. I don't know what it would offer, anyhow, that would improve my computer experience.

Also, I am happy to hear about Dell's willingness to offer the option. I bought my laptop before the switch to Vista, and I possibly will need a desktop sometime this year. I hope I can stay with XP.

I worked with a Vista laptop all afternoon and evening. It came pre-installed on the new laptop. I have almost the identical laptop running XP so the difference in performance was obvious. The Vista machine operated much more slowly than the XP.

I wrestled with it for several hours. One struggle was getting Outlook 2002 to install on it. The install went okay, but then Outlook was nowhere to be found. I finally used a Microsoft utility that is supposed to move programs from one computer to another. I managed to move Outlook (no data, just the program). It then ran okay.

Then I tried to sync a PDA with it and everything was broke again. Vista didn't like the PDA and wouldn't run the sync software for it. Apparently, it wanted Outlook to be the 2003 version and since it wasn't it wouldn't sync.

With the new laptop still working at such a slow pace and with some primary software not wanting to run on it I decided I had had enough Vista.

I pulled out an unused XP install disk and reformatted the hard drive on the new laptop. As I type this I am just finishing the update of that install. We'll see what drivers I will be missing now.

However, I know that Outlook 2002 and other software I run will work with XP.

[BobHunt]

we are setting up a new comp with quite a bit more memory space than most people have, and we will be installing Vista on it, and now from all this reading, I am scared we made the wrong choice. we also have a big power point program and will get the new office07 program which I have heard is excellent for email. I sure hope it works out ok, we have high speed DSL now, it just went through around here, and we installed it already.

[Bob Wright]

Is if I had a fast Dual Core 64-bit computer. Vista does a very good job of load balancing the two cores. There are many "work arounds" that can make Vista usable for many applications; I have a friend who works at our shop who just loves it, but it is a hobby and a challenge for him. Most people don't have the time and patience; nor can they afford the extra power needed to run Vista. Someone mentioned gaming as an advantage, but I have access to research with gaming, and I'm hearing that DirectX 10 doesn't even make up for the resource demands of Vista; it is still going to be slower. I really think Vista will be a great system in a couple of years. If you remember, XP was a dog when it came out, and they have just now got it working pretty well. Don't give up on Vista, but I wouldn't jump in too fast either.

[Rich Hudson]

I just removed Vista (RC1) from my home computer and reinstalled XP. I enjoyed using it but it was due to expire in June anyway and I'm not ready to buy a copy. XP really makes a tremendous performance difference though. I'd forgotten just how fast this old box can be. :)

[Garth Lahana]

This (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39087) article says enough.

Garth

[Rich Hudson]

Goodness! That is scathing no?

I'm not sure the situation is that dire, though I won't join the crowds at Costco pressing to buy a new 64 bit, home premium wonder any time soon. New toys are nice but so is efficiency.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Just for those who bought a Toshiba Satellite and have decided to "upgrade" it from Vista to XP, and who might stumble upon NazNet via a search engine here's the rest of my story:

To update the story...
Most of the missing drivers could be reinstalled from the Toshiba recovery disk. The biggest driver problem was the video driver. The XP video driver was not on the disk and not available from Toshiba's support site. I went to ATI and the driver I downloaded wouldn't work either. After plenty of googling I came up with a solution. I found a very good thread on the topic at Notebook Review (http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=104237%22). One of the solutions was to install the Omega driver, which I did. It works just fine: Omega Drivers (http://www.omegadrivers.net/ati/win2k_xp.php).

And for you perfectionists out there, in the device manager there are still a couple of "unknown devices" - my internet searching suggests that they are vista specific buttons of some sort and can be ignored.

I think that is probably true because the laptop now performs on par with mine, which came with XP and is almost its twin.

[Gina Stevenson]

Oh, dear. Rereading this---at least the first few posts---makes me feel "iffy" about even going to check on Vista costs if upgrading from an already-MS program [XP]. You see, I've been checking on memory to upgrade that, and the cost, well ........ ?!?

Then I saw something today I've never seen before. In one of the Sunday paper's ads it mentions one can get this TWO GIG jump-drive-type plug-in that can not only be used as a jump drive, but can somehow work with the computer's memory and have, say, someone with a 512MB memory suddenly be working with TWO GIG!! BUT, this is only if they have Vista, it appears.

Comparing the cost of new memory, taking the computer apart, and putting it in ... then seeing this thing is just $40 [free if one is buying a new computer this week, & there was a super deal there, too, tho' I've already got this, so will pass], I think, "Wow! How much is a Vista upgrade, compared to getting one or two gigs of memory for this, since even the memory is getting into the "antiquity" pricing range, tho' this is just a year-and-a-half old?"

Any tho'ts? Or, has anyone with Vista already tried this exterior USB jump drive/memory upgrade thing and found it to work either excellent, or badly?

[Garth Lahana]

Gina

I have heard that the jump drive technology for Windows Vista isn't all it's cut out to be. The perfromance gains are marginal, and not worth the expence or effort. I would, if you are happy with XP, stick with it. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" is a saying we have in the IT world, and it would ring true here also. At least wait for the first service pack to come out for Vista, to see what sort of improvement MS has to offer before upgrading. Apparently according to the current rumor mill, it should be our by early next year.

Garth

[Gina Stevenson]

Thanks, Garth. Have by now checked out Vista cost, if one can't find a place to get a free sample, anyway. It's in the $150 & up range. For a couple of gigs for the computer, it would be something like $160 or so [a lot!]. So, was hoping that Vista might be found reasonably priced, since they have even given it away before, but not so, along with hoping that jump-drive memory deal worked OK.

Sad it doesn't work as well as it appeared to sound.

[Ian Newton]

Been born and bread on Windows I have never ventured beyond what I was given. But I believe some computers can come with Linux pre-installed and free operating systems are getting better. What does anyone in the know think? And what about Mac users? Is it worth your next computer being a Mac especially if much of what you do involves images and video?

Could Windows Vista turn people to open souce software which has free word processing and spreadsheet software and many other applications developed by the open source world?

From the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/6733501.stm)

I look forward to seeing the response.

Best wishes


Ian.

[Marsha Lynn]

I bought a new laptop with Windows Vista on it 2 weeks ago. My old laptop is still functional so I'm making the move to the new one slowly. I have more software to hunt down and install before I can use the new one exclusively.

There are adjustments to be made. The keyboard is different (Gateway replacing a Dell). Vista is different and, of course, there's no instruction manual for even the most basic needs. But the thing that bugs me most is that it is slooooowwww! With new processor technology, 2 GB of RAM, and 160 GB of hard drive, you would think it would zip right along, but that doesn't strike me as being the case. Maybe I just don't know how to do things efficiently.

This morning I'm back on the old laptop and had my first "Oh, I can't do that here" moment, the first instance of missing on the old system a feature discovered on the new. Of course, it's just a little thing. (Isn't that always the case?) I simply needed to get to the desktop to open a briefcase. My daughter taught me several years ago that combining the windows key with "D" will bring up the desktop instantly. That was a big step beyond minimizing all of the many windows I always have open. However, Vista includes the desktop among the options shown with the Alt-Tab key combination. With all of those open windows, I use Alt-Tab frequently and instinctively to switch between them and I've already grown to appreciate having the desktop there.

I'm hoping that other Vista features will eventually steal my affection away from the old familiar face of XP. If anyone wants to share some of those little niceties, I sure would be interested in knowing about them. I still haven't figured out the new look of the file explorer. I'm planning on including a basic Vista "how-to" book with the next book order for the library, knowing that I won't be the only one making the move. Meanwhile, I slog along, missing XP, looking for ways to get done what I need to do.

Oh, one breakthru. My only version of MS Office is the 2000 variety. My first several attempts to load it in Vista ended up with a hung computer. I finally decided that I could use Open Office for everything except my Access files so tried to load just Access, setting the other parts of the suite to load on 1st startup. It worked. I then installed Excel by opening it and then Word. When I tried Outlook, it hung again. But at least I have most of the features I actually use.

Marsha

[Marsha Lynn]

I'm still switching back and forth between Windows Vista, XP, ME, and 2000. I think part of the lethargy with my Gateway laptop in Vista might be related to the antivirus software -- downloading updates over the dial-up line, scanning all the same files it scanned the day before to see if they have developed viral characteristics, etc. When my free period expires, I'll probably uninstall it and see if that helps.

I have depended on "briefcases" to keep my XP laptop in sync with various other data depositories. Vista still has the briefcase feature but is excruciatingly slow in checking for necessary updates. I've about given up on that feature on my new laptop.

However, I have discovered a second feature that I now miss on other systems. Here are a couple of screenshots. It's quite informative to see where the X falls when I'm not getting internet access. Of course, I could sort it out eventually with a bunch of "pings," but this is certainly more convenient.

I'm also enjoying the increased use of "thumbnails" in Vista, although I hate to think what they cost me in terms of memory and time. The last screenshot is of some icons on my desktop. (Extra credit if you can identify the building that is currently my wallpaper behind those icons.)

[Marsha Lynn]

One more observation. Dave mentioned earlier that he had high hopes for the "sync" feature of Vista enabling him to keep his laptop data in sync up with his desktop. Unless the Windows for Dummies book is wrong, that is not actually an application for the Vista sync feature. Rather, it is used to sync small electronic devices such as PDAs. Personally, I made a brief attempt to get my Vista laptop to talk to my PDA but ran into problems and quickly gave up since I haven't managed to get Outlook from MS Office 2000 running under Vista and that's the format used by the PDA for contacts and task lists. I'll just have to use one of our desktops as the home base for the PDA.

I still haven't come up with a satisfactory system for taking data from the desktop with me when I'm out with the laptop. Thus far, I primarily depend on the briefcase feature, but I have to want the data pretty badly to take on the tedious process of updating my briefcase files under Vista. More often, I pull out my old XP laptop if I need my desktop data on a portable system.

Marsha

[Terri Knoll]

this had nothing to do with vista but I just learned how to do a screen shot lol I am so proud of myself :basic05

[Garth Lahana]

this had nothing to do with vista but I just learned how to do a screen shot lol I am so proud of myself :basic05

You crack me up Terri :M)

[Mike Wooldridge]

What I've noticed in working with people with Vista computers is its lack of backward compatibility with even XP. That's supposed to be at least partially addressed with SP1 (http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/04/03/HNsp1fix_1.html) for Vista.

[Garth Lahana]

That's supposed to be at least partially addressed with SP1 (http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/04/03/HNsp1fix_1.html) for Vista.

Mike, when it comes to Micro$oft, seeing is believing! :rolleyes:

[Billy Cox]

I bought a new Dell laptop in February with XP. The purchase included a free upgrade to Vista. It came yesterday. I am in a dilemma whether I should install Vista or not. The laptop is fully capable of handling Vista, and my printers can be updated for Vista.

I know upgrades don't always go well. Should I try upgrading? Is it worth the risk? Have any of you installed Vista?

I bought a Dell desktop nearly a year ago. I have not bothered to cash in my 'free upgrade' to Vista.

I bought a Dell laptop yesterday and opted for XP.

I just can't find a compelling reason to go with Vista - it seems to have far more problems than Windows 95 did, which was the last time that Windows made a quantum leap.

[Randy Wise]

http://www.pcworld.com/video/id,632-page,1-bid,0/video.html

Mac OS X Leopard vs. Windows Vista - PC World Video

This video will give you a taste of Vista and show you some cool goodies your Mac brothers are using.

Randy

[Dave McClung]

I just bought a new Dell notebook with Vista Preinstalled. The only problem I have had is getting an error message each time I boot up saying that one of the drivers (also preinstalled by Dell) won't work with Vista. It is a Roxio driver and I have had problems with them on my XP Computer too.

The feature of Vista that is causing me to consider updating my desktop to Vista too is the "Snyc" feature. If it works as advertised, it would automatically keep my data files on the laptop and my desktop in sync.

So far, I have not had any difficulty with my legacy programs running on Vista.



I have now had my "new" laptop since April. I find that I seldom use it because I like my old one better. I have never come to like Vista when compared to XP. I am seriously considering removing the Vista and installing XP.

[Michael B. Ross]

Dave, I ordered a new desktop yesterday. I intentionally ordered a Dell because they still offer computers with XP. I have not heard anyone say anything good about Vista.

I was going to wait a few weeks before buying, but I found a deal I couldn't refuse. Dell is offering a Vostro for $449. Few options are available, but it is about what I would have ordered. I wish it had 2GB memory instead of 1GB, but I can add that later.

For anyone interested, to get XP on a Dell you have to order through their small and medium business computers. I don't think they offer XP with their home computers, but the business models are the same as the home except with different names.

Dave, I have a copy of XP if you want it. I would be happy to send it to you. I won't need it.

Link to the Dell offer: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?cs=04&kc=65028&oc=brpcs0a&x=6&y=7

I have now had my "new" laptop since April. I find that I seldom use it because I like my old one better. I have never come to like Vista when compared to XP. I am seriously considering removing the Vista and installing XP.

[Dave McClung]

Dave, I ordered a new desktop yesterday. I intentionally ordered a Dell because they still offer computers with XP. I have not heard anyone say anything good about Vista.

I was going to wait a few weeks before buying, but I found a deal I couldn't refuse. Dell is offering a Vostro for $449. Few options are available, but it is about what I would have ordered. I wish it had 2GB memory instead of 1GB, but I can add that later.

For anyone interested, to get XP on a Dell you have to order through their small and medium business computers. I don't think they offer XP with their home computers, but the business models are the same as the home except with different names.

Dave, I have a copy of XP if you want it. I would be happy to send it to you. I won't need it.

Link to the Dell offer: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?cs=04&kc=65028&oc=brpcs0a&x=6&y=7

Thanks, Michael. I finally found the issue that was causing me so much trouble. There was a program running in the background that kept causing Vista to crash. Now that I have eliminated the program, Vista is doing much better. Now that it is running smoothly on my laptop, perhaps I can learn to like it.