Yuck! I tried installing Linux!

[Brad Mercer]

I've been reading about Linux lately, thinking how nice it would be to be free of Microsoft without paying for a new Mac. I've found a couple of things lately that were easier and more intuitive in OpenOffice than in MS Office.

The reviews all said how easy and consumer friendly Ubuntu Linux 7.04 is. I figured since it's supposed to guide you right through the process I could install it myself on our family desktop PC and have a dual boot system so I could play with Linux and Karen and Jake could keep using Windows until or unless I had enough bugs worked out to suggest moving them over to Linux, too.

First, the partitioning required more knowledge than I have, so I wound up wiping the whole hard drive and being left with just Linux. I have all our documents, music, photos and e-mail backed up, so I could have survived that, BUT...

Linux didn't recognize my USB wireless card, so I don't have internet access, which kills about 90% of the usefulness of a PC for us. I tried just unplugging the card and plugging it back in, and now it doesn't even light up. I did just now plug it into my daughter's laptop and it immediately recognized it, so I guess the card itself is still okay.

I found instructions for downloading and installing something called ndiswrapper, but the install instructions are indecipherable to me. I have ndiswrapper-1.42.tar.gz on my desktop but don't know what to do with it. If I could install it and if I could find the Windows driver for my card on the internet somewhere, ndiswrapper is supposed to be able to make my card work with Linux even without a Linux driver for it.

My wireless card is a Linksys Wireless-G, model number WUSB54G S ver. 2, and I can't find any CD that may have come with it. I've almost decided to go down tomorrow and just try buying a new USB wireless card that my Linux system will automatically recognize, but from reading the table of supposedly compatible cards, even that looks a little iffy.

I have the CD-ROMs for Windows XP and MS Office Professional, so I might be able to just re-install everything I had, but I suspect that wouldn't be much faster and easier than getting the internet working on Linux, which would make Linux acceptable, probably. And I'd really like to make Linux work if I can, now that I've gone this far.

Any thoughts, other than that I'm a hair-brained idiot?

Obviously I'll be scarce on NazNet until I get the problem solved. My wife, son and I are all now fighting for a turn on my daughter's laptop.

Brad

[Garth Lahana]

Brad

I am by no means a Linux guru, but I found this (http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major) link to the top ten Linux distributions, with a description of each. This could perhaps help you, if after using Ubuntu, you are not completely satisfied.

You might want to try installing Linux in a virtual machine if you decide to return to Windows, that way you could test out Linux before completely making the switch to Linux. VMWare Server is a way to run Linux (or any other operating system) within Windows, without having to destroy your current installation. You can download it here (http://www.vmware.com/download/server/). Only thing I would consider would be having more than 512mb RAM, so that it will run well enough to test out the Linux distro of your choice.

Garth

[Gina Stevenson]

Any thoughts, other than that I'm a hair-brained idiot?

Nope! Mercy Me, Brad! Well, guess I do have one other tho't, after all ... you're gutsy, doing that! :basic05

[Ken Smith]

Hi Brad, How ya feeling today bud? Here is something I tinker with, check out the Information section as a start. http://www.tapioneer.com/

I am running my Linux system from a CD mounted on WinMe now with the Konqueror Browser; I had to adjust the font size but that's all. NazNet looks great on Linux, "this version anyway".

Ken

[Hans Deventer]

Brad,

Take a regular cable, connect the PC to the router with it, and deal with the USB stuff later. I don't know a good reason to use a USB wireless connection anyway.

[Brad Mercer]

Brad,

Take a regular cable, connect the PC to the router with it, and deal with the USB stuff later. I don't know a good reason to use a USB wireless connection anyway.

The actual router is on the downstairs computer. Our computer is in our upstairs bedroom.

[Doug Kitchen]

I've been reading about Linux lately, thinking how nice it would be to be free of Microsoft without paying for a new Mac. I've found a couple of things lately that were easier and more intuitive in OpenOffice than in MS Office.

The reviews all said how easy and consumer friendly Ubuntu Linux 7.04 is. I figured since it's supposed to guide you right through the process I could install it myself on our family desktop PC and have a dual boot system so I could play with Linux and Karen and Jake could keep using Windows until or unless I had enough bugs worked out to suggest moving them over to Linux, too.

First, the partitioning required more knowledge than I have, so I wound up wiping the whole hard drive and being left with just Linux. I have all our documents, music, photos and e-mail backed up, so I could have survived that, BUT...

Linux didn't recognize my USB wireless card, so I don't have internet access, which kills about 90% of the usefulness of a PC for us. I tried just unplugging the card and plugging it back in, and now it doesn't even light up. I did just now plug it into my daughter's laptop and it immediately recognized it, so I guess the card itself is still okay.

I found instructions for downloading and installing something called ndiswrapper, but the install instructions are indecipherable to me. I have ndiswrapper-1.42.tar.gz on my desktop but don't know what to do with it. If I could install it and if I could find the Windows driver for my card on the internet somewhere, ndiswrapper is supposed to be able to make my card work with Linux even without a Linux driver for it.

My wireless card is a Linksys Wireless-G, model number WUSB54G S ver. 2, and I can't find any CD that may have come with it. I've almost decided to go down tomorrow and just try buying a new USB wireless card that my Linux system will automatically recognize, but from reading the table of supposedly compatible cards, even that looks a little iffy.

I have the CD-ROMs for Windows XP and MS Office Professional, so I might be able to just re-install everything I had, but I suspect that wouldn't be much faster and easier than getting the internet working on Linux, which would make Linux acceptable, probably. And I'd really like to make Linux work if I can, now that I've gone this far.

Any thoughts, other than that I'm a hair-brained idiot?

Obviously I'll be scarce on NazNet until I get the problem solved. My wife, son and I are all now fighting for a turn on my daughter's laptop.

Brad

Brad,

Wireless USB is not as easy as it looks!

some of the wireless usb cards only work on windows. I got a d-link for my Mac thinking I could download the correct driver but never got anywhere with it. You may be able to find drivers on the internet. I just looked up your model in google and these link http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?t=356315 and http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=225206 have very long discussions about the set up of the card. Check to see whether you have put the card in a powered USB port (not all ports are created equal) - if it doesn't have enough power then your computer won't sense it even if you have all the right software. When you get this working you will be an official linux guru!

If you can, do the linux install so that the OS is segregated and the data portion (usually called /home) is a separate partition.
You will be able to upgrade linux easier this way. Since you have backups of all your data, you can repartition the disk as many times as you need. Generally, 8GB is good for the operating system partition.

If you want to create a dual boot system, then you need to set up at least 2 disk partitions. In the old days, Windows had to be on the first partition (but that may have changed). If you have the space in your box, the really easy way to do this is to buy a second internal disk drive. Then you can have your c: drive with windows and your second drive can have linux.


Doug

[Adam Spriggs]

I agree with Garth.

Try it on a VMWare virtual machine first. It doesn't cost anything. All you need is a blank vmdk file, the free VMWare Player and the Ubuntu ISO.

Here's (http://johnbokma.com/vmware-player/empty-vmware-virtual-disk-files.html) some blank vmdks and some instructions.

[Brad Mercer]

I agree with Garth.

Try it on a VMWare virtual machine first.

Well, of course, my current tragedy is that it's too late to do anything "first". :basic04

At this point, I "just" have one problem, which is internet access. I'm going to wade through the two threads on Saturday that Garth listed and see if I can make heads or tails of them. If I can make my card work or find anything online that tells me of a card that will for sure work right out of the box (and that's available here in Brisbane instead of only in Germany like one I saw the other day in someone's blog), I want to do that.

If I haven't accomplished either of those things by mid-day Saturday, I'll concede defeat and begin the process of trying to re-install Windows XP and get internet re-established there. Although I'm afraid that will all their anti-piracy fears I'll have to call Microsoft to use my XP and Office Pro CD's to re-install the software, and making that call from Brisbane instead of the US may raise their fears even further.

Anyway, we'll see. Hopefully I'll be back online, one way or another, by the end of the weekend.

Brad

P.S. Every Linux review I've read insists that Ubuntu 7.04, aka "Feisty Fawn" is the most popular, best, easiest to install and use of all the current Linux distros. Double Yuck.

[Brad Mercer]

Well, after failing to work through the instructions in the second thread that Garth listed (and seeing a note in it that said it might not work for my PC anyway if it's a 64-bit processor, which I think it may be), I went to an electronics store to see if they had a card that even mentioned Linux. The only one that did cost $150 and it was talking about some kind of wireless ethernet connection. I couldn't afford that price and I still wasn't sure it would work for me.

So, I conceded defeat and reinstalled Windows XP. I'm back online on my own PC, so I guess that's at least a marginally better experience, but I still didn't really install it right. I didn't partition the hard drive to have system files on C and everything else on D like it was when I bought the PC. I didn't really quite install the wireless card right so, although it works, the software that came with it doesn't and when I do too much clicking on it and the various windows networking programs to get them to pop up, the whole system slows to a crawl. Even in the absence of those efforts, it still moves oddly slow, like when I'm scrolling through a long NazNet screen. Also, my sound card doesn't work now (in Linux it did!).

And I can't log on to my Choosing2Live e-mail anywhere, for some reason, whether on this computer or another, whether through an e-mail program or webmail. So don't take it personally if you haven't received a response from that address in the past week. It seems to be rejecting my password.

Dissatisfied as I am with the PC's present performance, I've probably succeeded now in getting it just fixed enough that my wife won't think the expense is justified of taking it to an expert and paying them to re-install everything properly. But I guess I've got it running well enough now that we can tolerate the time it takes me to figure out how to get it running better.

Lesson: Never try to install an operating system unless you have some vague clue about what you're doing.

Brad

[Hans Deventer]

Lesson: Never try to install an operating system unless you have some vague clue about what you're doing.

I think you have a point, Brad :basic03

[Garth Lahana]

Brad

Sorry to hear that it all went soooo wrong for you. Linux seems to be easy, but it does have a learning curve, that's for sure.

Many of the Linux distros have a live CD, and that might help you without having to install anything. If you boot from Ubuntu for example, you can run that version "live", without having to install it at all. At least that way you can see if it would be something you would like to try installing, or just learn more from it running in live mode, so to speak. Only downside from live, is you cant install anything into it while it's running from the CD, and it will run slower that off the hard drive, for obvoius reasons.

Good luck, if you decide to give it another bash!

Garth

[Hans Deventer]

Many of the Linux distros have a live CD, and that might help you without having to install anything.

And if you don't have it, you can download one here http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html

[Brad Mercer]

I actually did look around in it with the live CD, but it just didn't occur to me, having never dealt with the complexity of getting Linux to work with all one's hardware, to see whether my wireless card would function from within the live CD. That really wound up being my only real "deal killer". I just didn't know enough either to see it coming or to solve it.

If I ever decide to try something like that again it'll be on an "extra" computer, not the one we live and die by, and it'll be after buying a book like "Linux Ubuntu for Dummies" and doing some serious studying, especially to thoroughly understand partitioning for dual boot, so I can continue to use the PC while I work out any Linux issues.

My current problems getting Windows fully operational again do suggest that Windows may not be a lot easier than Linux, it just comes pre-installed, so I don't have to deal with its initial installation and set-up difficulties.

Brad

Brad

Sorry to hear that it all went soooo wrong for you. Linux seems to be easy, but it does have a learning curve, that's for sure.

Many of the Linux distros have a live CD, and that might help you without having to install anything. If you boot from Ubuntu for example, you can run that version "live", without having to install it at all. At least that way you can see if it would be something you would like to try installing, or just learn more from it running in live mode, so to speak. Only downside from live, is you cant install anything into it while it's running from the CD, and it will run slower that off the hard drive, for obvoius reasons.

Good luck, if you decide to give it another bash!

Garth

[Brad Mercer]

And if you don't have it, you can download one here http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html

That's what gave me my feeling of false confidence. I had been able to follow all the instructions to download and create the live CD for Ubuntu 7.04 without any real difficulty. And a couple of years ago I created a live CD of the then-current version of Mepis Linux and installed it on an old computer my brother gave my parents. Within an hour or two my mother was surfing the web on a new free dial-up connection, listening to music and viewing family photos. There were just no problems to solve, so I didn't realize that I wouldn't have a clue how to solve any that did arise.

I think I like Ubuntu better than Mepis, I like the idea of the regularly scheduled updates to it, I think it would ultimately be more consumer friendly. And I think now that one of the reasons things went so smoothly with my mother's installation was that it was an older PC so the Linux community had had more time to do the necessary work to make it compatible with her hardware, and because a dial-up connection is inherently simpler than a wireless card.

Of course, that's all hindsight.


Brad

[Brad Mercer]

I think you have a point, Brad :basic03

Yes, I'm master of the bleedin' obvious. :o

Brad

[Garth Lahana]

Oops...

[Garth Lahana]

Something I forgot to mention is that among all the different Linux diributions, there are a few Christian Linux distros, which include bible software and other christain software aleady in the distro. There is also a Christian distro based on Ubuntu. You can find out more here (http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS5144949501.html).

[Adam Spriggs]

When it comes to computers, I learn the most when I screw it up the worst.

[Garth Lahana]

When it comes to computers, I learn the most when I screw it up the worst.

Adam

Sound like life to me! LOL

[Brad Mercer]

When it comes to computers, I learn the most when I screw it up the worst.

In that case, I'm bordering on genius these days. :o

Brad

[Billie Goodson]

I am much like Adam. Did you figure out the tar.gz file thing? Actually it is nothing but a g-zipped file that is a tar ball.... A tar is a way of making an archive of a bunch of files -- kind of like zipping them. it is a unix thing that carries over to linux. So, usually you run something like gunzip on the .gz file. That should leave you with the tar ball (*.tar). Then you put the file somewhere like in temp directory and untar it (tar xvf file.name). Tar takes a little to get used to, but, it is very common on the *nix OS's. Sometimes the installer for packages on a unix-type system can handle a *.tar.gz file without any further work on it. Just depends.

I have never tried ubuntu, but, I have done red hat and Mandriva. Mandriva was very easy -- but, wireless is a problem I did not have to deal with.

One key -- always maintain one internet connection to help with research after you fumble on the first couple of tries.

Don't give up Brad -- you will learn a lot about yourself and your computer if you keep trying -- even though you may never make it work. One recommendation -- get a second hard drive -- even a small one and put linux on it -- then if you really mess it up -- no damage to your original system drive!

[Mike Schutz]

Brad,
I certainly have no intention of making light of your computer-induced pain, but if you go back and read this thread, both the problems and the technolanguage of the solutions, it all reads like an ad for...

"Hi, I'm a ..." :basic05

[Billie Goodson]

Brad,
I certainly have no intention of making light of your computer-induced pain, but if you go back and read this thread, both the problems and the technolanguage of the solutions, it all reads like an ad for...

"Hi, I'm a ..." :basic05

Mike, you mean the one that has the guy dressed like the successful businessman compared to the job-hunting hip-hop generation guy? :basic07

[Mike Schutz]

Mike, you mean the one that has the guy dressed like the successful businessman compared to the job-hunting hip-hop generation guy? :basic07

Billie,
Yeah, that's the one.

However, I tend to look at the guy on the right as the creative, innovative believer who is all about doing whatever it takes to reach people for the Lord. And the guy on the left? Well, he's the one we have to convince to go along with it because he's going to pay the tab.

But don't go so far as to suggest us Mac folks don't have jobs. After all, if you don't have a job - and a good paying one, for sure, you certainly can't afford to buy a Mac. (Oh, wait a minute. I don't have a good paying job. How have I been able to put so much money in Steve Jobs' bank account? Oh, that's right - just like the commercial says:

"iTunes is free... for everything else, there's MasterCard") :eek:

[Brad Mercer]

Okay, I've managed to re-install Windows XP, with the hard drive properly partitioned to be Drive C and D, with all the system files on C. My only problem now is that Windows can't see my sound card. It doesn't even know it's there. Windows was using the sound card just fine before I started tinkering, and although I couldn't figure out how to connect to the internet with Linux, it recognized the sound card automatically, without a hitch. I'd hate to get this close and then have to go pay someone to fix the sound card problem.

Any ideas?

Brad

[Hans Deventer]

My only problem now is that Windows can't see my sound card. It doesn't even know it's there.

Any ideas?


Check the brand and type, download the driver, install the driver, reboot Windows and you have a good chance it will be recognized.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Check the brand and type, download the driver, install the driver, reboot Windows and you have a good chance it will be recognized.

If that doesn't work, open the box, take the sound card out and put it in a different slot, then reboot.

If you don't have a different slot, just take it out, reboot, shut down, put it back in and boot up. Often that will cause the operating system to recognize and install the card.

[Brad Mercer]

If that doesn't work, open the box, take the sound card out and put it in a different slot, then reboot.

If you don't have a different slot, just take it out, reboot, shut down, put it back in and boot up. Often that will cause the operating system to recognize and install the card.

That's the solution I'm leaning toward. I'd have to open the box anyway to do what Hans suggests, because I don't have anything anywhere that tells me what the sound card is, as far as I can find.

Brad