Spiritual naval gazing

[Barbara Moulton]

One of the things I have noticed about my volunteer Lay Chaplains from the mainline churches, is that they seem to obsess less about their spiritual condition than those in the evangelical culture in which I was raised.

Just a few minutes spent with them, convinces me that they believe in Jesus Christ, that they draw strength and comfort from the grace of God and that they are ministers of that grace in their families, church and community (and of course in their hospital work).

But they don't seem to spend as much time obsessing about the minute details of the Christian walk as evangelicals. To them, the Christian life seems more about believing and doing, rather than constantly taking the temperature of their spiritual condiion or spending hours spiritually "naval gazing".

It's rather refreshing to tell the truth. I realize that I have adopted some of this attitude myself. I don't have as much spiritual angst as I used to. If I have a couple of days where I don't feel as close to God, I simply accept that this is the reality of experiencing the spiritual life in a human body. I affirm that I do believe and then get on with what I believe God wants me to do, trusting that if I commit it to Him, that He will be glorified. I really believe that this has increased my sense of spiritual peace.

I think of my marriage. I know Carl loves me. I know I love him. For the most part, after 22 years of marriage, our relationship is one of deep contentment. We have many moments of passion and joy and laughter of course. But on a day to day basis, our marriage simply IS. And I don't stop and examine each happening to determine the quality of my marriage. I roll with things far more easily.

After the many years of following Christ I have some of the same attitude. I love Him. I know He loves me and wants only the best for me. I have a lot of contentment. There are many times of great joy but for the most part, like my marriage, my relationship with Christ simply IS.

To tell you the truth, I really like the sense that I am balanced in my Chrisitan walk right now.

I am not sure I would want to return to the days where I was constantly examining myself to see if I was committed enough, surrendered enough, obedient enough etc., etc., etc.

It's far more peaceful to simply begin each day with an affirmation of belief and a prayer of surrender.

[Chris Baker]

...To tell you the truth, I really like the sense that I am balanced in my Chrisitan walk right now.

I am not sure I would want to return to the days where I was constantly examining myself to see if I was committed enough, surrendered enough, obedient enough etc., etc., etc.

It's far more peaceful to simply begin each day with an affirmation of belief and a prayer of surrender.


I think the "being balanced" is really the key. If we never question what our "spiritual condition" is, then we slip into the trap of doing without really being who we ought to be. On the other hand, if all we ever do is question our condition, doubt creeps in, oftentimes even where there should be no doubt. So I think that a balance between "doing" and "questioning/examining our condition" is what we ought to be looking for.

[Carol Kane]

Barb,

You wrote what I feel and think in regards to Abiding In Christ. Thanks:basic01

[Cindi Hammons]

Once again, Barbara, you seem to have hit the nail on the head! (Ever thought about moving to Ohio?) :rolleyes:

It seems like every time there is a major problem at our church, it is over the conflict between the "navel gazers" and those content with their salvation. Our church recently celebrated its 75th Anniversary...which really isn't a blessing at times. We have a few folks who have been at our church since the 1940's...and feel that time should have stood still. There is constant questioning of our Spirituality (because our lives are not 100% embedded in the church). The "navel gazers" are always judging whether or not you are jumping, shouting (very loud), crying (weeping out loud),waving your arms, praying (out loud) or preaching (loud and in a sing-song voice, gulping in air between sentences)...if you are not doing these things, you need to work on your Christianity. I reject that! Welcome to the dreaded Bible Belt. It's not all fun and games.

Thank you for putting into words what I needed to hear! It isn't always "mountain top" experiences. Sometimes one must just "be."

Thanks,
Cindi H.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

But they don't seem to spend as much time obsessing about the minute details of the Christian walk as evangelicals. To them, the Christian life seems more about believing and doing, rather than constantly taking the temperature of their spiritual condition or spending hours spiritually "naval gazing"....I am not sure I would want to return to the days where I was constantly examining myself to see if I was committed enough, surrendered enough, obedient enough etc., etc., etc.

Oswald Chambers talks a lot about simply abiding in Christ and letting his life flow into and through ours. Also, you will remember Marsha Lynn did a series of prayers that reminded me that we don't start at "zero" with God everyday.

In an attempt to find balance, I have places in my prayer journal in which I ask myself and the Lord about the fundamentals of my commitment to him every so often. The rest of the time, I try to "abide" in him.

Enjoyed your post...most often do!

[Ian Gentles]

I remember an Evangelical Anglican describe the two churches, one evangelical, the other wasnt, he had pastored. He said the difference was simple, "The evangelicals were mostly concerned with worship, where as the none evangelicals were much kinder people!" Makes you think!

[Marsha Lynn]

Oswald Chambers talks a lot about simply abiding in Christ and letting his life flow into and through ours. Also, you will remember Marsha Lynn did a series of prayers that reminded me that we don't start at "zero" with God everyday.

Scott, I find it interesting that of the 141 posts I have around here (142 with this one), you would choose those two to reference in another thread. Do you remember that there used to be more to that series? I'm not sure how many I had posted, but I have nine in at least draft form in a file.

More than once people have suggested that I should be a writer. But when I pray about it, the answer I consistently sense is: "Not yet." So I hang around NazNet, and I fill prayer journals with prayers similar to those I posted, and I indulge in a blog entry once a week or so, but try to exercise enough self-discipline to not let writing interfere with other priorities that I have been given for now.

I wasn't sure about starting that prayer series but did. And it turned out to be a pleasurable exercise. It didn't take all that much time out of my days, and I was enjoying the direction it was taking. Yet I grew increasingly uncomfortable, not with the series, but with the idea of doing it. I was running up against the "not yet".

One morning as I prayed, I chafed against the "not yet" and finally realized that I seriously needed to give up the prayer series. Not finish it and then quit. Not just polish and post what I had already composed. No compromise. No bargaining. It was time to quit. Just walk away. It became a fundamental question of obedience.

"OK, Lord" I said, "I'll quit." But then I added with just a hint of smugness. "Of course, You do realize that it's too late to delete what I've already done. I won't do any more but if You want to use what's already there to bless someone, that would be all right with me." (or something like that) I was committed to obedience but I didn't offer to ask to have the thread deleted. I still found it pleasing.

Moments later I logged onto NazNet and my jaw dropped as I discovered the crash of 10/25 had wiped out all except those first two posts which you referenced here. I thought I might have caught a glimpse of a smug smile and heard echoes of the words, "That's all right. I already took care of deleting it."

I mentioned in the "shout box" Sunday evening that coincidences seem to happen more often when I pray. Never would I say that God caused that crash. I wouldn't even testify that it was a personal message to me. Still, there's something thrilling about discovering hard evidence, however coincidental, that correlates to those vague impressions one deals with in seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit. (And it was nice to already have the answer to the question about re-posting what had been lost.)

So ... does anyone else ever suspect that God is having a hearty laugh at your expense? And isn't it an absolutely astounding thing to think that might be the case, that your relationship might be close enough to include some good-natured ribbing? Or is that idea too anthropomorphic?

Marsha

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Neat story Marsha. I appreicate your skills as a writer but even more your sensitive spirit about when and what to write. I am sure that the day will come when you will receive a loud "yes" from the Lord and that it may be sooner and not later.

Till then, practice on us in exchanges like this one. I seriously wonder though, how many good writers are just blogging, etc. these days. It used to be that the only way to get an audience was to commit oneself to the work of writing. These days, one can do just enough, and have just enough audience on the internet to scratch the writer's itch while not really accomplishing much.

By the way, next time, ask the Lord to laugh at your idea about "what you have written you have written" by crashing NazNet. I was up all night trying to get it up and running again!


Scott, I find it interesting that of the 141 posts I have around here (142 with this one), you would choose those two to reference in another thread. Do you remember that there used to be more to that series? I'm not sure how many I had posted, but I have nine in at least draft form in a file.

More than once people have suggested that I should be a writer. But when I pray about it, the answer I consistently sense is: "Not yet." So I hang around NazNet, and I fill prayer journals with prayers similar to those I posted, and I indulge in a blog entry once a week or so, but try to exercise enough self-discipline to not let writing interfere with other priorities that I have been given for now.

....Marsha

[Billy Cox]

I would characterize spiritual navel-gazers as those who hold too tightly to religion. Interestingly enough, they tend to spend alot of energy gazing at and judging others.

There are a few people capable of living in faith without a religious framework...but very few. There are plenty of people who live in faith and find it affirmed within religion.

My purpose in life is to be a person of faith, with or without religion. However being part of religion means I'll eat better and have alot more friends.

[Barbara Moulton]

I would characterize spiritual navel-gazers as those who hold too tightly to religion. Interestingly enough, they tend to spend alot of energy gazing at and judging others.

There are a few people capable of living in faith without a religious framework...but very few. There are plenty of people who live in faith and find it affirmed within religion.

My purpose in life is to be a person of faith, with or without religion. However being part of religion means I'll eat better and have alot more friends.

I am not sure that you are responding to my post specifically? I wasn't suggesting that I live my faith without my religion.

[Billy Cox]

I'm in agreement with you.

Spiritual navel gazing is the result of bad theology. In some quarters of the Nazarene Church preaching against eternal security has been so fierce that many people live in mortal fear of losing their salvation.

I seem to hear that you want or have found the way of peace. In that quest/desire, I completely understand.

[Cindi Hammons]

I would characterize spiritual navel-gazers as those who hold too tightly to religion. Interestingly enough, they tend to spend alot of energy gazing at and judging others.

Aha! Good point, Han Solo...I mean, Billy. So true, so true.

Cindi H.

[Barbara Moulton]

I'm in agreement with you.

Spiritual navel gazing is the result of bad theology. In some quarters of the Nazarene Church preaching against eternal security has been so fierce that many people live in mortal fear of losing their salvation.

I seem to hear that you want or have found the way of peace. In that quest/desire, I completely understand.

Yes...thanks for the clarification.

Again, it is like my marriage. It's not that Carl and I never sit down and talk about how things are going between us more intentionally or work to address issues that arise. We haven't become lazy in our marriage but we have become more relaxed. We know that we will have ups and downs but the roots of our marriage and our love grow deep and strong.

Similiarly, it is not that I never spend time in spiritual introspection, thinking about my walk and relationship with God or working through some specific issue. But at the heart of my relationship with God I know that I am ok.

[Marsha Lynn]

I seriously wonder though, how many good writers are just blogging, etc. these days. It used to be that the only way to get an audience was to commit oneself to the work of writing. These days, one can do just enough, and have just enough audience on the internet to scratch the writer's itch while not really accomplishing much.

You make a good point. Blogging and posting to forums bypasses the editorial process, giving a writer practice and an audience but little in the way of constructive criticism leading to improved writing skills. While comments about what is written are acceptable, critiquing how it is written is often considered bad manners. If someone wants to truly develop their writing skills, it will require somehow subjecting themselves to criticism that goes beyond content.

By the way, next time, ask the Lord to laugh at your idea about "what you have written you have written" by crashing NazNet. I was up all night trying to get it up and running again!

Well, again, I'm not inclined to make strong statements that an apparently random event was actually the hand of God doing something deliberate in response to provocation of some sort. I'm more inclined to believe that an infinite God can take a random event and customize it to scores of people in such a way that it looks like it was individually designed just for the benefit of each. ("In all things God works for the good of those who love him") Thus, I'm not taking responsibility for your hours of much-appreciated labor, but I'll try to avoid creating the same situation again if it will make you feel better. :basic07

Thanks for the encouragement, by the way. It's because of such encouragement that I can hear the message, "Not yet," as opposed to the inner voice of mockery that says, "Yeah, right. In your dreams."

Marsha

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Blogging and posting to forums bypasses the editorial process, giving a writer practice and an audience but little in the way of constructive criticism leading to improved writing skills.


True - it is considered poor form to correct spelling, etc. on a forum or blog, etc., - much less style. I assume that there are some writer's groups on the internet that would help one hone their skills though.

I'm more inclined to believe that an infinite God can take a random event and customize it to scores of people in such a way that it looks like it was individually designed just for the benefit of each.


I love that statement -- it is, I think a good way to describe God's "authority" while not assuming he is "controlling" everything.

but I'll try to avoid creating the same situation again if it will make you feel better.


Much appreciated!