COTN Responds to the AIDS Crisis

[Barb Bouldrey]

I thought you might appreciate knowing all the Church of the Nazarene is doing to help those affected by and afflicted with A.I.D.s.

This is a partial report from page 12 of the current Compassionate Ministries Magazine. The entire issue is dedicated to the "Reality of AIDS: Glimpses of Hope."

United States: Working with HIV and AIDS patients at Projecto Luz, at Nueva Lus Urban Resource Center in Cleveland, Ohio

Papua New Guinea: Caring for people with HIV at Kudjip Nazarene Hospital

Bangladesh: Beginning an HIV and AIDS training program for youth.

Haiti: Partnering with other organizations in HIV prevention programs.

Dominican Republic: Working with HIV prevention programs in 3 communities

Thailand: Ministering with those affected by HIV and AIDS through "New Life for Thai"

Africa: working in multiple countries giving leadership training, spiritual support, prevention training, education for children who are orphaned because of AIDS, food security for children who have been exposed to HIV or orphaned, and healthcare in AIDS clinics on the Ivory Coast and at the hospital in Swaziland.

This is my summary of what that chart says.

Barb

[Billy Cox]

I am curious to know what aspects of prevention the church promotes.

I suspect that I know the answer, but I am not yet cynical enough to assume that I am right.

[Barb Bouldrey]

Isn't there only one answer to prevention? Abstinence and avoiding used needles? Oh, and having sex with only one person.( and of course we would teach that you should be married to that one person)

Why cynical? Why assume something negative or critical of the church? That is the way you make it sound.

In Africa, men who already have AIDS believe that the cure for AIDS is to have sex with a virgin. ( I was told this by missionaries) So, part of the education is to teach men and women that AIDS cannot be cured by having sex with a virgin. In Africa there is a lot of rape because of that legend. So, we should be teaching females self defense and how to be safe in public and at home.

I have not seen the program's material, but I doubt that our church teaches safe sex by using condoms...it teaches that safe sex is abstinence.

What other ways can you prevent AIDS?????

Is there anything wrong with teaching prevention according to Christian teachings?

Barb

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Thanks for this report, Barb. I had used much from the current issue in the sermon last week.

We need to be doing more.

In 50 years, I'm afraid that my children and grandchildren will ask why we didn't do more than what we have. North Street is being led to wonder what we can do in this situation as a local church. While the judgment of future generations will be bad, our immediate and primary concern is for millions of people who could be saved with not too much effort.

If the statistics are true, the AIDS crisis will go down as the worst human calamity of all-time.

[Barb Bouldrey]

Jeremy,

We, today, can look back and find many things of which to ask, "Why didn't the church do more...."

But you have the answer when you say your local church is wondering what they can do locally....that is the answer.

It is not "Why didn't the leaders in Kansas City do more?" It is "What can I do, what can my local church do?"

When I read the entire magazine I come to the conclusion that we are doing a lot. At least we are trying to help. It shows we are concerned about this health issue as well as concerned about the spiritually lost of the world.

The same people(and I am not referring to you, Jeremy) who want to cut back mission giving and mission budgets sometimes want the church to do MORE in other areas, such as this AIDS crisis. They forget that we can only what we do because of giving. A denomination cannot do more without more people giving for this cause.

We can only do MORE as a denominational program to help the AIDS crisis if people GIVE MORE to Compassionate Ministries, designated for AIDS Response.

And this is not a commercial....just an explanation. LOL

Barb

[Ryan Scott]

I'm not sure if this violates the terms of use and I apologize in advance if it does, but if you want to give more towards AIDS work, you can do so right here. (https://secure2.convio.net/cn/site/Donation2?idb=1934466122&df_id=2204&2204.donation=form1&JServSessionIdr010=yl1ty3yv22.app7a)

[Billy Cox]

Isn't there only one answer to prevention? Abstinence and avoiding used needles? Oh, and having sex with only one person.( and of course we would teach that you should be married to that one person)

If prevention were truly important to us as a church, then we would promote ALL means of prevention, even the ones that offend our sensibilities. Suppressing one method of prevention exposes the fact that we have ulterior motives.

Why cynical? Why assume something negative or critical of the church? That is the way you make it sound.

It would be cynical to assume that missionaries working with AIDS populations would be hamstrung by political sensibilities in sending countries. I don't assume that a Nazarene missionary would refuse to give information about condom use to a woman whose husband was HIV positive. I am absolutely certain that such a story won't make it into the church's PR materials though.


Is there anything wrong with teaching prevention according to Christian teachings?


Yes, if the co-called 'Christian teachings' place ideology above people for whom Christ died.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Jeremy,

We, today, can look back and find many things of which to ask, "Why didn't the church do more...."

But you have the answer when you say your local church is wondering what they can do locally....that is the answer.

It is not "Why didn't the leaders in Kansas City do more?" It is "What can I do, what can my local church do?"

When I read the entire magazine I come to the conclusion that we are doing a lot. At least we are trying to help. It shows we are concerned about this health issue as well as concerned about the spiritually lost of the world.

The same people(and I am not referring to you, Jeremy) who want to cut back mission giving and mission budgets sometimes want the church to do MORE in other areas, such as this AIDS crisis. They forget that we can only what we do because of giving. A denomination cannot do more without more people giving for this cause.

We can only do MORE as a denominational program to help the AIDS crisis if people GIVE MORE to Compassionate Ministries, designated for AIDS Response.

And this is not a commercial....just an explanation. LOL

Barb

I didn't mean to imply the Church of the Nazarene, though I can see why that may have looked implicit since it's what the thread was about. I certainly wasn't questioning Kansas City this time around. As for my local church doing something - that's what I said in my post. "North Street" is my local church.

When speaking of who should be doing more, I meant all of humanity (certainly with the Church at the forefront). And sure there are mistakes for every generation, but this goes beyond a mistake. I still think this will go down as the worst human calamity of all-time. Forget the bubonic plague, forget the Holocaust, forget any war, this will be it. Two million people dying a year for several years in a row from one thing is the atrocity of all time.

[Barb Bouldrey]

Billy,

There is a difference if suggesting a WIFE whose HUSBAND has AIDS covince her husband to use condoms and teaching singles to use them to prevent HIV infection.

I do not understand all you are saying. Our main commission is to win the lost and make disciples. Since the beginning of Nazarene missions we have used medical help to help people with their medical needs, hoping that we will also win them to Christ.

We have taught people how to farm to feed their own families. We have taught ladies to sew to earn their own income to feed their families. We have taught people many things to help them have a better life....but our MAIN motivation is to win them to Christ.

When we send food, water and blankets to refugee camps or to natural disaster victums, we are reaching out to help meet their physical needs, but we are motivated by love for Christ and the desire to help others find Him as Savior.

Ulterior motives? What is wrong with our ulterior motive if it is to win the lost to Christ?

So-called Christianity? What we are doing to help the AIDS crisis is done in Christ's name. What is wrong with that?

We are a CHURCH. A church that wants to meet phsycial and medical needs of the world, AS we reach them for Christ. Not a secular humanitarian organization.

I am offended by the suggestion that we do anything that is "so-called" Christianity that has "ulterior motives" that are bad motives. Why can't it been seen as the COTN doing something to help? HELP. And win others to Christ.

I think it is great that we are doing SOMETHING.

Barb

[Ryan Scott]

...but our MAIN motivation is to win them to Christ.


That's not the phrase everyone would use. If we're only out to "save souls" or "add to our number" then we're falling short of the command of Christ.

We're to live as Christ-like disciples. That means loving people and working for their best interests even if they never do what we want them to do. It is the loving that makes us like Christ not the conversions. Christ never set out to convert anyone, but to show them the Kingdom of God and allow them to be transformed by that love.

I'm not saying I totally agree with Billy, but I don't think I totally disagree either.

In the ideal, yeah abstinence before and monogomy after marriage is the best option. Billy's not going to argue with that and it's very much what our ministries are committed to teaching. We don't have to be ashamed of the standards to which we hold ourselves and our fellow Christians.

However, in reality, not everyone is going to follow that plan, nor are they going to agree with it. I think we do have a responsibility to help those people as well. It's certainly not loving to deny someone condoms (and increase their risk of contracting HIV) just because they aren't living up to our standard of sexual purity.

If our ministries are going to effective members of the communities in which they work, they're going to have to tackle reality head on and reality just isn't as pretty as we'd like it to be.

I don't think we need to compromise the message to effectively educate and equip people to deal with HIV and AIDS. After all the love of Christ covers all sin, but there are perilously few miraculous healings of AIDS out there.

[Barb Bouldrey]

Remember...I said our MAIN motivation. I did not say our ONLY motivation.

And I never even hinted about adding numbers....we do not win the lost to add to the church, but add to the kingdom.

We show the Jesus Film and only a percentage of those saved become Nazarenes.

I know what the ideal it, and the ideal is not reality. When we go in to help in nations already infected with HIV we cannot teach ideal prevention except to the very young. But we have to try.

It is just hard for me to realize that I posted something that I thought was a very good move on the part of our church and the only two responses I get criticize what we are doing or question how we are doing it.

Barb

[Carmen Harrison]

.It is just hard for me to realize that I posted something that I thought was a very good move on the part of our church and the only two responses I get criticize what we are doing or question how we are doing it.

Barb
Barbara:
This is a positive response to your thread.
I have been to Africa and I spent many days with AIDS infected and HIV positive adults and children. I saw first hand what the COTN is doing to help with this crisis, specifically Nazarene Compassionate Ministries. In Ethiopia, NCM is very connected to the govenment. NCM is called Fayyaa there, meaning Restoration.
The govenment is partnering with Fayyaa to help their country in the fight against AIDS... providing education and medication, as well as meeting other basic needs.

Below are some signs I saw along the road in remote villages, to educate people about the prevention of AIDS. Notice the NCM logo at the bottom.

The fourth picture is the President of Ethiopia. He supports Fayyaa and invited our group to visit him at his retreat home about 2 hours southwest of Addis Abba on the road to Kenya. This picture was taken out on his expansive veranda over looking the Great Rift Valley... quite an experience, especially since he is a friend of our church and appreciates our humanitarian ministry to his people. The last picture is the view from his veranda.

[Ryan Scott]

It is just hard for me to realize that I posted something that I thought was a very good move on the part of our church and the only two responses I get criticize what we are doing or question how we are doing it.


I hope I'm not one that was lumped into criticism. I'm not critical at all. In fact, I work for NCM. I'm very encouraged about what local congregations are doing around the world.

However, one of our challenges is helping people to understand that compassion is not a means to an end, it is a means in itself. It is the natural outflow of Christ's command to love one another.

That's not to say that congregations are ignoring their charge to make disciples, but making disciples is not the reason we act with compassion in the world.

If we only help others to get them saved, we're doing the compassion disingenuously. It's no different than painting some horrible picture of how bad hell is to get people saved. Accepting Christ out of fear is not what God wants. In the same way, accepting Christ because the Church is the only way you can eat today is not what God wants.

We don't ignore God and if people ask why you do what you do, you tell them God loved me, so I am loving you. But if our motivation is not love for the person, but a desire to add people to the kingdom, then we're doing it for the wrong reasons.

You may say these are semantic differences, but they aren't. Doing compassion for its own sake manifests itself in different ways than doing compassion to bring people into the Church. People can tell what our motives are. It scares us at times to just love, we can feel like we're not doing as much as we could, but it is in the genuine love that asks for nothing in return that Christ is able to draw people to himself.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

It is just hard for me to realize that I posted something that I thought was a very good move on the part of our church and the only two responses I get criticize what we are doing or question how we are doing it.

Barb -

Come on...I wasn't critical. You read my response as critical and then went off about how we shouldn't question Kansas City when I didn't even do that.

Go back and read my first post again, I said "Thanks for posting this..." and then talked about how I and my local community (North Street) are convicted about how we should be doing more. And no, I'm not satisfied with what people are doing if the results are still that two million people a year are dying from this situation. That's why I said "we need to be doing more." If anything, my post was critical of my own actions.

[Billy Cox]

Billy,
There is a difference if suggesting a WIFE whose HUSBAND has AIDS covince her husband to use condoms and teaching singles to use them to prevent HIV infection.

Are you saying that there are exceptions to the policy that abstinence is the only effective means of preventing HIV infection? I bet you won't find those exceptions in writing anywhere, but I am willing to be proven wrong.



I do not understand all you are saying. Our main commission is to win the lost and make disciples. Since the beginning of Nazarene missions we have used medical help to help people with their medical needs, hoping that we will also win them to Christ.

Do people have to profess Christ as their savior in order to receive medical care from Nazarene missionaries? If the answer is 'no' (and I believe it is), then medical best-practices apply first. Unless there is a medical rationale for suppressing one means of prevention, then we are delivering care with moral strings attached.


We have taught people how to farm to feed their own families. We have taught ladies to sew to earn their own income to feed their families. We have taught people many things to help them have a better life....but our MAIN motivation is to win them to Christ.

When we send food, water and blankets to refugee camps or to natural disaster victums, we are reaching out to help meet their physical needs, but we are motivated by love for Christ and the desire to help others find Him as Savior.

Ulterior motives? What is wrong with our ulterior motive if it is to win the lost to Christ?

So-called Christianity? What we are doing to help the AIDS crisis is done in Christ's name. What is wrong with that?

There is nothing wrong with that. The ulterior motive of which I speak of is putting political ideology above the best interests of a patient. If we tell people in Mozambique that abstinence is the only effective means of preventing HIV, it might play well in Peoria, but it is just as false as telling an HIV infected man that having sex with a virgin will cure him.

From what I know of missionaries, I am pretty sure that they don't allow American politics to hamstring their patient care. I also have a feeling that the PR side of missions has been low-key about their response to AIDS because in the States (where the money comes from), AIDS is still widely perceived as 'just desserts' for gays and junkies.



I think it is great that we are doing SOMETHING.


In this case, something is far better than nothing. Don't get me wrong...my gripe is not with the missionaries.

[Kim Hersey]

And I'm challenged anew about the reality of the AIDS crisis, worldwide and here in the U.S. I've listened to the "AIDS folks" present to high school classes, and wondered why the church isn't preaching the same message.

The "secular" agency (in this case, Monterey County AIDS Project) works really hard to help teens see that "safe sex" means only abstinence, not condom use. They try to "redefine" for kids that the kids mean "safe-R sex"... I think that's a really good thing because it helps students know that there is still a risk, but there is much less risk.

Why is the church so afraid to be honest with that information? Is it because it is about sexuality, and somehow sexual sins are more offensive than gossip or other sins? I won't speak for Billy, but I don't understand why we will feed hungry people without expecting them to become Christian, or rebuild houses without expecting the people who live there to become Christian, but we won't teach effective condom use to prevent the spread of a disease THAT KILLS PEOPLE because we might be misunderstood as promoting promiscuity. Um, hello... the people are already being sexually active; we aren't the ones teaching them how to do that.

I like the saying, "If you're going to be dumb, don't be stupid. " It applies to most moral choices. If you're going to make a wrong moral choice, don't add stupid, non-moral consequences that you don't have to add. For example, if you're going to be dumb and get drunk, don't be stupid and drive drunk. If you're going to be dumb and gossip, don't be stupid and do something that can get you arrested for slander. If you're going to be dumb and make promiscuous sexual choices, don't be stupid and put yourself at risk for sexually transmitted diseases, including AIDS.

Is that an un-Christlike thing to say/do/teach? Why do we expect the world to "act Christian" when they aren't?

Kim :)

[Terri Knoll]

I try to remind Naznetters that you can give to NCM thru United Way giving. alot of folks give to United Way thru the corporations they work for. You can earmark the money to go directly to NCM while still doing corporate community giving.

thanx
Terri

[Terri Knoll]

I am very proud of the work that the COTN is doing on the aids crisis thru NCM and other missions.

I too, however think it is not enough. Not that the ORG isn't doing enough, the people in the ORG aren't. (I include myself) People think, Oh I give to NCM so that is all I have to do. I disagree.

There are several secular agencies (one only needs to google) that DOESN"T include trying to force people to become christians. The need is now, not develop several churches etc then deal with it.

I think Americans especially should do more, as we are so blessed. Give up that new car, drive the old one for one more year and give that money to NCM if you are so inclined, or to ANY charity working on right now issues.

I believe the same thing about Darfur.

Imagine if every Naznetter (just as an example) gave up one trip, one meal out a week, etc etc and donated that money to fight AIDS. what a difference! In a deeper dream: every Naznetter sold all they had and moved to Ethiopia to help fight aids. what a miracle!

before people start ripping my head off, in one year I was able to pay for 2 wells www.bloodwatermission.org , help build an orphanage www.handsandfeetproject.org , send a volunteer thru www.one.org , buy several CD's from Christian artists that fund and front several relief agencies www.myspace.com/jesusismyrock (I own all of the cd's of the artists there)
all while recovering from a serious illness, and helping raise 14 grandchildren and giving to NCM. I am just one lowly person. Imagine if we all gave some.

blessings,
Terri


ps...we HAVE to do something

[Billy Cox]

We conservative evangelicals seem to have an obsessive fear of becoming an accomplice to the dirty sins. (nontraditional sex, illegal drugs, etc.)

It reminds me of Jesus' accusation that the Pharisees strain at gnats and swallow camels.

[Barb Bouldrey]

In all our our programs of medical, social care around the world I have never gotten the impression that we try to force people to become Christians.

I have never heard of one instance where we only feed the street children or give medical aid to the poor unless they be come Christians first.

First of all, you cannot force anyone to become a Christian.

Second, we do not ever give out the message, "Come here for a free meal, but you must accept Christ to receive it."

Yes, we should do compassionate works because we are Christians and love people, wanting to help them. But if we do compassionate works and forget to try to introduce them to Jesus we are failing as Christians. Our FIRST command from Christ is to win the lost and make disciples.

If the work we do to help the AIDS crisis, or the Haiti Hot Lunch program, or our medical clinics and hospitals is only to help physical and social needs we are failing Christ.

If we feed the poor, minister to AIDS victums and leprosy victums, cloth the naked, visit the prisoners and take care of widows and do not do our best to win them to Christ, all those people are going to be lost. What good did our help do? It is then only temporary help.

Our missionaries and Compassionate Ministries do not d decide to win the lost by opening a clinic in a refugee camp. They see a need and try to meet that need, hoping to reach the lost for Christ at the same time. Our missionaries start CHURCHES or show the Jesus Film in a direct open attempt to win the lost.



Barb

[Barb Bouldrey]

Kim

I do not think the church is afraid to be honest about this information. I think the church DOES promote the idea that the only safe sex is abstinence or one-partner marriage sex. I know that our teen camps and NYI programs address this issue. I cannot speak for the local church, but I know our local church has addressed this issue in our teen classes and NYI services. Our teens know that we promote abstinence and sex only for married couples.

Every local church needs to address this issue with their congregations. We cannot leave it up to the school to teach our youth about AIDS and safe sex.

I do not understand why the viewpoint is expressed on this thread that we EXPECT anyone to become a Christian because we offer them help. I do not understand why everyone does not believe that all we do anywhere in our local community or international community should be done with the HOPE that some will find Christ as Savior because we offered help.

We offer people a cup of cold water in Jesus name because we love them and see that they need water, but we should also offer them the Living Water.

Barb

[Ryan Scott]

Yes, we should do compassionate works because we are Christians and love people, wanting to help them. But if we do compassionate works and forget to try to introduce them to Jesus we are failing as Christians.

When we are loving and compassionate towards people, we are introducing them to Jesus. Love and compassion are the only things in this world that accurately represent Jesus.

Our FIRST command from Christ is to win the lost and make disciples.

I'm not sure how we get to the word "first" here as we really don't know the chronology. The most oft repeated command from Jesus is "to love one another." At some point someone called the "go and make disciples," the great commission and we took their word for it. There are far more references to love than to making disciples in Jesus words.

Now I believe that love is the only way to make disciples, and I assume many will agree with that, but there are no words we can say that will "introduce people to Jesus." No logic or teaching will make people follow Christ, it is only through our loving actions that Christ is revealed and the Spirit can work.

[Carmen Harrison]

And I'm challenged anew about the reality of the AIDS crisis, worldwide and here in the U.S. I've listened to the "AIDS folks" present to high school classes, and wondered why the church isn't preaching the same message.

The "secular" agency (in this case, Monterey County AIDS Project) works really hard to help teens see that "safe sex" means only abstinence, not condom use. They try to "redefine" for kids that the kids mean "safe-R sex"... I think that's a really good thing because it helps students know that there is still a risk, but there is much less risk.
Kim :)

Education in developing countries, particularly Africa, has to be different.
AIDS is not spreading, for the most part, through the of type of sex you mentioned.
AIDS is spreading in Africa mainly because of violence to women.
When men and teen boys engage in a violent act, they do not and will not ever care about safe sex or condoms.

I do not know exactly what the wording is on the signs in the pictures I posted from Ethopia, but I know that NCM/Fayyaa is trying to educate men that these culturally accepted violent acts upon women and girls is wrong. They are teaching them how to respect women and teaching women and girls how to respect and defend themselves.

Until this is accomplished and this message understood and accepted, there is little hope of stopping the AIDS epidemic in Africa.
It is an overwhelming task, but with Christ all things are possible. When I was in Africa, I heard miraculous stories and met many of these living and breathing miracles face to face.

Little IS much when God is in it!

[Ian Gentles]

I thought you might appreciate knowing all the Church of the Nazarene is doing to help those affected by and afflicted with A.I.D.s.

This is a partial report from page 12 of the current Compassionate Ministries Magazine. The entire issue is dedicated to the "Reality of AIDS: Glimpses of Hope."

United States: Working with HIV and AIDS patients at Projecto Luz, at Nueva Lus Urban Resource Center in Cleveland, Ohio

Papua New Guinea: Caring for people with HIV at Kudjip Nazarene Hospital

Bangladesh: Beginning an HIV and AIDS training program for youth.

Haiti: Partnering with other organizations in HIV prevention programs.

Dominican Republic: Working with HIV prevention programs in 3 communities

Thailand: Ministering with those affected by HIV and AIDS through "New Life for Thai"

Africa: working in multiple countries giving leadership training, spiritual support, prevention training, education for children who are orphaned because of AIDS, food security for children who have been exposed to HIV or orphaned, and healthcare in AIDS clinics on the Ivory Coast and at the hospital in Swaziland.

This is my summary of what that chart says.

Barb

Good news, and i wouldent expect less.

[Kim Hersey]

Education in developing countries, particularly Africa, has to be different.
AIDS is not spreading, for the most part, through the of type of sex you mentioned.
AIDS is spreading in Africa mainly because of violence to women.
When men and teen boys engage in a violent act, they do not and will not ever care about safe sex or condoms.

I do not know exactly what the wording is on the signs in the pictures I posted from Ethopia, but I know that NCM/Fayyaa is trying to educate men that these culturally accepted violent acts upon women and girls is wrong. They are teaching them how to respect women and teaching women and girls how to respect and defend themselves.


I think you're exactly right... and that is GOOD stuff...of which we need to keep working and do more, still. It's a complicated, thorny, difficult issue.

Kim

[Kim Hersey]

Kim

I do not think the church is afraid to be honest about this information. I think the church DOES promote the idea that the only safe sex is abstinence or one-partner marriage sex. I know that our teen camps and NYI programs address this issue. I cannot speak for the local church, but I know our local church has addressed this issue in our teen classes and NYI services. Our teens know that we promote abstinence and sex only for married couples.

Every local church needs to address this issue with their congregations. We cannot leave it up to the school to teach our youth about AIDS and safe sex.

I do not understand why the viewpoint is expressed on this thread that we EXPECT anyone to become a Christian because we offer them help. I do not understand why everyone does not believe that all we do anywhere in our local community or international community should be done with the HOPE that some will find Christ as Savior because we offered help.

We offer people a cup of cold water in Jesus name because we love them and see that they need water, but we should also offer them the Living Water.

Barb

Sorry, Barb, none of that was intended to be directed at you personally. Billy got close to a "pet peeve" of mine, and I typed before I thought (a dangerous thing in cyberspace, to be sure.)

Nor was it my intent to minimize the good work that the CotN is doing to respond to the AIDS crisis, at various levels. We are engaging in proactive solutions on many fronts, and I rejoice with you.

For the record, I don't think we necessarily, or explicitly, expect anyone to become Christian because we offer them help (though I do think it's an implicit motivation for many individuals, at all levels of the system).

Within the USA/Canada, though I DO think we intentionally withhold some information about safeR practices because we want our teens to hold to the ideal of abstinance and lifelong monogamous marriages. I know, beyond reasonable doubt, that some churches in certain areas of the US, would fire me as youth pastor for clearly presenting some of the factual information I was expected to teach in the public school setting. I DO think we still think that somehow, information is permission when it comes to sexual activity, birth control, and STD protection. That's my soapbox :o and I'm sorry to have hijacked the thread... if the moderators wish, they're welcome to move this part of it (or delete it, and that would be a first for me :basic02)

Grace. Peace.

Kim

[Ann Smith]

It is time for me to weigh in on this issue. First of all, teaching people to use condoms is eyewash when it comes to sexually transmitted diseases. I spent many years in the Family Planning field and I know something about sexually transmitted diseases.

I am glad to see this discussion. The AIDS epidemic has been of great concern to me and I have been delighted to see that the CON is working to help in this crisis. It has angered me to hear the "Christian Community" in the USA spout their opinions about AIDS. I worked in a Prison for 10 years. I took care of dying AIDS patients. It is the most horrible death I have ever witnessed in my 47 years of Professional Nursing Practice. We must do what we can to prevent this horrible disease.

What ever we do to help in this area is good. Doing it in Christ's name is even better.
Ann

[Billy Cox]

First of all, teaching people to use condoms is eyewash when it comes to sexually transmitted diseases.

Eyewash?? Could you translate this sentence?

[Ann Smith]

Sorry. Using a very old term. Eyewash is used to clean eyes, but it doesn't always do the job. It just gives the illusion of helping. The same is true with condoms helping to prevent Sexually Transmitted Diseases. It makes people think they are protecting themselves, but they don't help with many. I would rather teach abstinence. Use of Condoms makes people think they are safer than they really are.
Ann

[Ryan Scott]

There is a difference to holding people within your group (congregation, program, etc) to a certain level of accountability when it comes to sex. That comes with the territory. It's an entirely different thing when you're dealing with a general public that doesn't share the same views of sexuality. It's just dumb not to make use of an opportunity to make people safer, even if it's only a little bit safer.

[Kim Hersey]

Sorry. Using a very old term. Eyewash is used to clean eyes, but it doesn't always do the job. It just gives the illusion of helping. The same is true with condoms helping to prevent Sexually Transmitted Diseases. It makes people think they are protecting themselves, but they don't help with many. I would rather teach abstinence. Use of Condoms makes people think they are safer than they really are.
Ann

Humbly bowing to one with more expertise... and again, for clarity, I COMPLETELY support teaching abstinence and one-partner married sex as Christian practice.

What, though, are we to do in the rest of the circumstances we're surrounded by:
#1) The rape/forced sex dilemmas of African nations
#2) The number of young adults in developed nations who have, even with STD information in their hands, chosen to be sexually active?

I have not a clue about #1. I pray, and I ask that those with more wisdom than I communicate a changing value structure about women.

#2 touches me daily. Because condom's aren't "safe" (on this, we really do agree!), should I not tell them that it's a way to lower risk? Should we withhold information that, while not completely effective, might help decrease the likelihood that disease is spreading? The stats that I've seen, at least with regard to AIDS show that a latex barrier is fairly effective (80% or better, depending on which stats I read...) ... NOT perfect, STILL "russian roulette" but better :)

Anyways... help me out... what other information do we have? What else can we do/say/be for those who are not choosing abstinence?

Grace. Peace.
Kim :)

[Jim Franklin]

See my review of Rev. Ellen Decker's missionary reading book on the Book Review Forum.

It seems that the church is finally addressing the consequences of promiscuity to which I gave a challenge in a Valentine's Day banquet speech I gave to a church on February 14, 1976, that of educating our teens.