Pastor spend his sabbath

[Jim Monck]

How should a pastor spend his sabboth seeing he has to work on Sunday? I mean besides being on NazNet all day.:basic07

[Laurie Florence]

He should spend it like the rest of us - praising God! :basic01

[Jeremy D. Scott]

How should a pastor spend his sabboth seeing he has to work on Sunday? I mean besides being on NazNet all day.:basic07

I'm not sure there's one answer.

But here are some things I seek to do:
1. Rest (this will often include times in nature, silence, driving, listening to music, or nothing at all)
2. Spend a lot of extra time with family
3. Read (scripture and otherwise)
4. Worship (find another Christian community that worships on weekdays - a monastery, Catholic Church, etc. Receiving communion is a bonus).
5. Journal
6. Eat & Drink
7. Some form of re-creation (basketball, etc.)

I certainly don't do all of these things every Sabbath/day off (although #s 1, 2, & 6 are priorities). If I packed all of these into the day, that would defeat the purpose.

[Bob Evans]

Where does the NFL fit in?:basic05

[BobHunt]

Walking in the middle of the beautiful flower garden he has planted and that God has watered and brought forth.
Eating the bountiful Sunday dinner his wife has prepared, including a very fattening desert.
Trying to figure out,with Gods help, how to tweak the sermon he has just preached that morning so that no one in the congregation goes to sleep next time!
Trying to figure out the path that a rumor took, from its inception, down through the chinese telephone until it got to his ears.
Ahhhhh anyone got something to add???

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Where does the NFL fit in?:basic05

Eating the bountiful Sunday dinner his wife has prepared, including a very fattening desert. Trying to figure out,with Gods help, how to tweak the sermon he has just preached that morning so that no one in the congregation goes to sleep next time!

I assumed that the question implied that Sunday was not the sabbath for the Pastor. That's how I practice it (on Fridays).

[Gord Evans]

How should a pastor spend his sabboth seeing he has to work on Sunday? I mean besides being on NazNet all day.:basic07

My Pastor takes two days each week "off" from his job as pastor, being Friday and Saturday. The rest of us get Saturday.

Sunday, of course, is the sabbath for all of us.

On Sunday, the sabbath, he arrives at church around 9 a.m. with his wife and children (unless, of course, his wife arrived a half hour earlier at 8:30, to rehearse with the worship team). He meets and greets and fellowships as folks arrive for our 10 a.m. service. The worship team practices. Others prepare for the facets of the morning for which they are responsible.

Pastor welcomes all to the service from the platform, then welcomes the worship team to the platform to lead a time of praise and worship (usually 15 to 20 minutes), in which he joins from the congregation.

Pastor speaks out the important announcements, spends some time with the kids before they head off for Kids Church with those entrusted with that ministry, prays for the offering ... the worship team leads a song of thanksgiving during the collection (5 minutes).

Pastor then preaches from the word, for 20+ minutes or so, before bringing the worship team back for a closing celebration of musical worship (10 minutes or so). Pastor then dismisses the congregation to various Sunday School classes led by those entrusted with those ministries.

Pastor spends about 30 minutes of the worship service on the platform. The worship team spends about 30 minutes of the service on the platform or in the A/V booth (they're part of the Worship Team, too, dontchaknow). The other ministries are busy and active during the morning, as well.

Then Pastor heads out, or home, for lunch with his family.

There are about twenty+ others who are involved in the musical worship ministry and/or nursery, Kids Church and Sunday School classes who put in the same number of (unpaid) hours, or more, each Sunday morning, who complete the morning by heading out, or home, with their families.

Seems like Pastor's sabbath is about the same as many of the rest of our congregation ... praising God corporately. The twenty minutes of allowing God to speak through Him as He preaches from the word, in all likelihood, is a blessing and a privilege beyond all comprehension.

So, what else did you want to know?

:basic01

[Jon Twitchell]

During the 9 months out of the year when we don't have a Sunday evening service, I really do consider Sunday to be my Sabbath day of rest. Yes, I have different roles and responsibilities than those in my congregation, but when I do my work appropriately during the week, the structure of Sunday morning allows me to worship together with the congregation, and Sunday afternoon/evening allows me to rest and recreate.

Monday, I tend to consider as a "day off"...just as others in my congregation get a "day off." We sleep in, we do household errands, or try to do something fun together.

Tuesday is primarily an office day for me to start doing my prep work for Sunday, as well as any administrative tasks that need to be done. Tuesday evening is board meeting once a month. If I do any visitation, it tends to happen on Tuesday.

Wednesday, I work for 6 hours at the local diner/general store/sandwich shop/pizza place (you should see me toss pizza dough sometime!). In the afternoon/evening, I do more office work, and possibly attend a small group.

Thursdays, I work for 8 hours at the store. In the evenings during the summer, I'm attending a small group where we will rotate facilitator responsibilities.

Fridays, I also work for 8 hours at the store. I consider the evenings to be "off."

Saturdays, I finish up preparation for Sunday. My lovely wife has usually taken care of most of the worship preparation and bulletin prep (based upon my initial thoughts from Tuesday's study time). Sometimes we have district meetings or other church activities on Saturday. While the sermon percolates in my head all week, it's usually not until Saturday that it actually gets typed out. Powerpoint slides also get made on Saturday night.

ANd that brings us back to Sunday. I'm usually at church by 8:00 for personal prayer/preparation, as well as the logistical preparation for the day--neaten the sanctuary, make sure the technology works, and the offering plates are in the right place...etc. 9:30 is Sunday School--we start with an opening for all ages (we sing a lot of children's songs), and then I teach the adult class. 10:45 is our Worship Celebration--I will open the service with a call to worship and as the primary worship leader (however, we have a small (4) team of very talented musicians, so little rehearsal is needed). After the offering, I'll lead us in a time of corporate prayer. Then, 2 lay readers will read scripture lessons from the lectionary, another song/hymn leader will lead the hymn before the message. I preach for about 20-25 minutes. THe song leader leads the closing hymn, and I give a benediction. We try to avoid meetings on Sundays, and after church we usually go out to eat...occasionally taking someone with us. After dinner, I produce and publish our sermon podcast, and then I'm done with any "work" until Tuesday.

(During the summer, I don't feel so much like Sunday's a true Sabbath, as I have to go back to church, pack up equipment for our campground services, and then be at the campground from 6:00-8:30, and then unload the equipment at church again. While worshipful...it's really not so restful!)

I know that was an extended answer to the question...but I felt that understanding the rest of the week was essential to understanding how I attempt to keep Sabbath.

[Brad Mercer]

I somehow thought this post was by Barbara Moulton. It all sounded like her, especially number 4. I was doing fine until I got to the last one and I thought: "Really? Barbara? Basketball. Wow, I'd pay money to see that!" Then I saw your name at the bottom. "Ohhh! Okay, that makes more sense."

:o
Brad


I'm not sure there's one answer.

But here are some things I seek to do:
1. Rest (this will often include times in nature, silence, driving, listening to music, or nothing at all)
2. Spend a lot of extra time with family
3. Read (scripture and otherwise)
4. Worship (find another Christian community that worships on weekdays - a monastery, Catholic Church, etc. Receiving communion is a bonus).
5. Journal
6. Eat & Drink
7. Some form of re-creation (basketball, etc.)

I certainly don't do all of these things every Sabbath/day off (although #s 1, 2, & 6 are priorities). If I packed all of these into the day, that would defeat the purpose.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

If the Lord's Day is mainly our Christian Sabbath I think we are as guilty of abusing it as the Pharisees were guilty of abusing their day of rest. The pastor isn't the only one who works through that day. Just about all church workers are deeply involved in the "production" that is worship, then we throw in a few committee meetings before or after or maybe even during.

In this there is a conflict.

On one hand it is Resurrection Day, a time of celebration. Since that is true, we understand that celebration takes planning and effort. Not only that, but a well planned and executed worship service is a witness to the lost who are most likely to come to church on Sunday mornings if they come at all. It's okay to fill Sunday because we are doing it for the King!

On the other hand, if it is our Christian Sabbath, a gift of God it is to be a time to rest from our busy lives and be renewed in body and spirit. So, if that is the main focus, it isn't okay to make it a day for a major effort down at the church with preparation and effort and meetings. A quick glance at the condemnation of the O.T. prophets tells us that it is not okay to ignore the Sabbath.

I know that Sunday is a busy day for the pastor but if the pastor needs to take another day as a Sabbath so does the person who comes for early morning prayer, teaches a Sunday School class, sings on the praise team, and comes early on Sunday evening for the music committee meeting.

So, there is a tension between Resurrection Celebration and Sabbath. Where's Solomon when you need him?

[Ryan Scott]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but it seems to me that the Sabbath has always been Saturday, right? No one ever changed that. We just worship on Sundays as a commemoration of the resurrection? I'm pretty sure that's why we have a two-day weekend.

[Jim Monck]

Good points are raised by both Gord and Scott and raise these questions:

1. Should Christians stop trying to have it both ways, sabboth and Christian celebration, and stop calling Sunday the Christian Sabboth? (Much like we should stop calling the church buildings the Lord's house.)

2. The early Christians began to meet the first day of the week (Sunday) but is Saturday as good a day and an alternative seeing 1/3 of our population works Sunday? If you go to church Saturday night do you feel guilty if you do not go on Sunday too?

3. Is preaching work or a part of the celebration and preachers should not feel they work on Sunday?

4. Are pastors basically a lazy group of people looking for more time off?

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but it seems to me that the Sabbath has always been Saturday, right? No one ever changed that. We just worship on Sundays as a commemoration of the resurrection? I'm pretty sure that's why we have a two-day weekend.

I think the early Jewish Christians observed Saturday as a Sabbath and Sunday as the Lord's Day. However, the rest of the Christian world had no Saturday tradition and did not adopt that practice. Even the Council of Jerusalem made no reference to specific days and pretty much set the Gentile believers free to simply trust in Jesus and develop their own approach to such matters as when to worship.

Around 100 the Didache instructed the Christians to make the Lord's Day (Sunday) a special day. In fact, it appears that both the Gentile and Jewish Church almost immediately made Sunday their day of worship -- a day to celebrate the resurrection.

The Sunday "day of rest" came along later. It was in 321 that Constantine decreed that government and commerce would cease on Sunday, making it the official day of rest. However, it is likely that he did so because Christianity was already doing it. Rather than "invent" Sunday as a day of rest, Constantine probably officially recognized what was already established.

So, it seems that the "dual worship days" - Saturday as Sabbath and Sunday as resurrection day was observed only by Jewish believers and even with them for only a couple of hundred years. The combined day developed in the Gentile Church and was then institutionalized by the Roman emperor over 300 years into Christianity.

Keith Drury's book, "The Wonder of Worship" is filled with great information like this!

[Ryan Scott]

3. Is preaching work or a part of the celebration and preachers should not feel they work on Sunday?

4. Are pastors basically a lazy group of people looking for more time off?


I'm guessing these are up to the individual. Some pastors do a whole lot more than anyone else on Sunday. I think we should all be able to decide when we need a rest. (Workaholic pastors won't take it anyway.)

[Kevin Rector]

I think this thread highlights how abysmally bad we are at observing sabbath. If our worship leaves us tired and strung-out then we are probably doing our worship wrong. If we are exhausted after a church gathering then perhaps there is something fundamentally wrong with the church to start with.

Perhaps if we stopped viewing the worship service evangelistically and saw it instead as simply the people of God praising their God we'd be starting on the right path. Perhaps if we substantially altered our perspective about how "professional" and "put together" or worship needs to be everyone would be less tired.

I preached last week that our church must be missional... we must see that evangelism happens outside the church's building's walls... inside the buidling worship, edification, and the urging on to greater levels of love occurs. We have to get away from attractional models of ministry if for no other reason than that they keep the people of faith from being able to truly worship and have a genuine sabbath.

The first shift that has to happen I think is that we have to stop saying things like "going to church" and replace it with "going to the church meeting (or gathering or assembly). Stop calling the building a church and start calling it the church's building. These changes seem so small and trivial but our language shapes our understanding and until we truly believe that WE are the church the church will never really be missional.

Sorry to get off on a crazy tanget.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Perhaps if we stopped viewing the worship service evangelistically and saw it instead as simply the people of God praising their God we'd be starting on the right path. Perhaps if we substantially altered our perspective about how "professional" and "put together" or worship needs to be everyone would be less tired.

Kevin, on one level I fully agree with you here. The purpose of Worship is worship. The focus is on the Lord and our adoration of him and our desire to be his loyal disciples.

But...as loyal disciples we do have the Great Commission to obey. Obviously the "go and tell" aspect of it really isn't about "going out of the church."

This doesn't exempt us from getting out there and impacting people for the Lord, but there is a great deal of evidence that targeted, well done Sunday morning evangelical worship services impact lost people for Christ.

I admit I am on the fence on this one.

On one hand, I agree that Christians ought to worship and that when they meet worship alone is a worthy agenda.

On the other hand, church services are a very useful and proven tool for fulfilling the Great Commission.

Which one should direct us in what we do on Sunday mornings? This may be an easier thing to work through in a larger church, but when the "people resource" is low it pretty much forces an either/or situation.

[Barbara Moulton]

Well...I'm not the pastor. I'm ordained and I have been a pastor in the past. Right now, I help my husband on Sundays as he pastors. I also act as worship leader.

So...I work five days a week at two different jobs (one of them as chaplain), spend Saturday cleaning the house and then assist with worship on Sunday.

I could easily ask when is my Sabbath. :)

But truth is, our church has a pretty light schedule on Sunday (only one service) so I actually feel more rested and more like I have had a Sabbath now then I did when I was a young teenage lay person who went to school everyday, was at church three evenings a week and attended three services on Sunday.

And I also feel like I am far closer to relating to the people of the church then I did when I was pastor with flexible hours who could take Monday off.

[Ryan Scott]

I made the remark about Saturday-Sunday more to point out that perhaps sabbath and a worship service don't necessarily have to go together. I find great comfort in a day of rest and relaxation and I find great comfort in a day of worship, however, I don't usually find both together, not in the same sense anyway.

I resonate highly with what you said, Kevin. I've been trying very hard not to call anything "church" unless I'm referring to the body of Christ collectively.

I am a member of a local congregation, where I attend worship service. We are a part of a denomination (which happens to have "church" in the name, which makes the whole thing a bit more confusing, but anyway), that is membered in the Wesleyan tradition of the Protestant movement that is a part of the Church. I think its important to keep those distinctions. Calling our building or our worship "church" teaches the wrong idea. It's taken me quite a while to realign my ingrained understanding of these things.

Scott, I am glad that you are greeting the idea of worship being something other than evangelistic with such openness. I think there can be great steps made in people's lives when they encounter God in worship, but these crisis events mean nothing in the grand scheme of things without a congregation that takes ministry outside the building. Crisis events don't make disciples, a loving community in support of people help form them as disciples. Coming to the altar in a service doesn't do anything if there isn't an effective base of support afterwards.

I'll leave my "Great Commission" speech for the at least two other threads where I've espoused it earlier.

[Jim Franklin]

Are a "day of rest" and a "day of worship" mutually exclusive of each other or can one sense in their worship a sense of resting in the Lord whether they are in the pew or on the platform in active leadership of congregational worship? I know my dad used to say that to him delivering two sermons on Sundays and all of the other activities of the day left him as drained as driving a team of mules all day long before he entered his calling of pastoral ministry. He did take a nap on Sunday afternoons, never ate a supper before the evening service and always had an after service snack of soda crackers and milk afterwards. He said it helped settle his stomach. Throughout the week it was 24/7 as I don't ever remembering him considering any day as a day off.

[Ryan Scott]

I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive, but I don't think they have to be mutually inclusive either.

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

Jim, If you were like many pastors, I would imagine you spent much of your vacation time visiting the older Moncks and Ulmets. But, taking two days off each week, but still in town, does not really mean it is actually your time, when---so and so has a tragic accident and is in the hospital, so and so died, etc. The nexr part is off the subject.
BTW, my mother, who is now in glory, dearly loved Bill Ulmet and his family, when he pastored my home church in Rock Hill, SC. That church is now called Trinity COTN, and plans to buiild a new church. Philip Jones is their pastor. When I was a teen, the church averaged 225 in Sunday School. Sis. Pressley lived on the next street from us, across from First Church. She was there 40 years, but as her health declinded the atendance did, also. Joseph Finger, father of Larry, built the first building. They lived next door to us when Joe, Jr., Larry and I were children.
I am assuming that you may have visited Rock Hill when Bro. Ulmet was there. First Church has their third building now. My deceased brother's family attend there. Now, if you don't know any of the people that I have mentioned, just forget it. Ha We have five COTN churches in Rock Hill now.

[Jim Monck]

Jim, If you were like many pastors, I would imagine you spent much of your vacation time visiting the older Moncks and Ulmets. But, taking two days off each week, but still in town, does not really mean it is actually your time, when---so and so has a tragic accident and is in the hospital, so and so died, etc. The nexr part is off the subject.
BTW, my mother, who is now in glory, dearly loved Bill Ulmet and his family, when he pastored my home church in Rock Hill, SC. That church is now called Trinity COTN, and plans to buiild a new church. Philip Jones is their pastor. When I was a teen, the church averaged 225 in Sunday School. Sis. Pressley lived on the next street from us, across from First Church. She was there 40 years, but as her health declinded the atendance did, also. Joseph Finger, father of Larry, built the first building. They lived next door to us when Joe, Jr., Larry and I were children.
I am assuming that you may have visited Rock Hill when Bro. Ulmet was there. First Church has their third building now. My deceased brother's family attend there. Now, if you don't know any of the people that I have mentioned, just forget it. Ha We have five COTN churches in Rock Hill now.

My wife, Sharon, is Bill's older sister. I remember holding two revivals for Kevin in Greenville, SC but I don't remember being in Rock Hill with Bill. It may be I was not in evangelism but pastoring myself during that time.

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

Sunday is a very tiring day in many ways, especially for people that do lots of church work. But, as a mother, and many times, a mother of a small child or more, plus one that is a pastor's wife it is very hard, and there are no two ways about it. If you are not that way, be glad that you are a strong person.

[Mike Wooldridge]

For pastors and others who have Sunday as a work day at church, what day is your Sabbath-day of rest?

[Thaine Sprenger]

Hey Mike.
I often have to work on Sundays, tho not in church.
Cow in the ditch thing [I do maintanence for rentals sometimes]
For a long time I had Fridays off. Friday is a great day off, because people are relaxed with the weekend coming.
Tuesday? As if... I'll gladly take a work day today and pay for it on tuesday (with time off)? Its the 'Wimpy' day off... it never comes. I bet that happens for pastors and other helpful people alot!

[Mike Wooldridge]

Hey Mike.
I often have to work on Sundays, tho not in church.
Cow in the ditch thing [I do maintanence for rentals sometimes]
For a long time I had Fridays off. Friday is a great day off, because people are relaxed with the weekend coming.
Tuesday? As if... I'll gladly take a work day today and pay for it on tuesday (with time off)? Its the 'Wimpy' day off... it never comes. I bet that happens for pastors and other helpful people alot!

Hey Thaine, welcome to NazNet! Everyone, this is Thaine, my friend from SNU (BNC) days. :fav18

[Barbara Moulton]

I've been thinking about this lately. I think there was another thread about this recently that made me look at my life.

Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays I work as a chaplain at the hospital. There are times outside those hours that I can be called in for a crisis or death. That happened last Saturday afternoon for example.

Wednesdays and Fridays I have another little part-time job at MADD.

Saturdays (as I have mentioned in the other thread) is usually my flex day to relax or get caught up on housework and get ready for Sunday.

And Sunday I lead worship at our church. Usually 48 Sundays of the year.

If I had to start looking for a day other than Sunday to be my Sabbath I don't know what I'd do.

But you see when I come home from church on a Sunday, even though I've led worship, and had my finger in several other pies, I always feel like I've had a Sabbath rest.

I've worshipped with the people of God and connected with them. I heard from God. I stepped out of the weekday activites. Even if I'm leading worship it is still worship. And the rest of the day I'm usually involved in family activities...just being with the people I love.

Even when I was a solo pastor preaching doing two sermons a day (with no music but my guitar) Sunday was still my Sabbath.

In all my years of ministry, I've always tried have a day off apart from Sunday. But that was just a day off...not my Sabbath. If I wanted to rest I woud rest. If I wanted to do laundry I would.

Sunday has always been and will continue to be my Sabbath.

Maybe I'm weird.

[Thaine Sprenger]

In all my years of ministry, I've always tried have a day off apart from Sunday. But that was just a day off...not my Sabbath. If I wanted to rest I woud rest. If I wanted to do laundry I would.

Sunday has always been and will continue to be my Sabbath.

Maybe I'm weird.


Beautifully put Barbara.

OH!
The Sunday part, not the weird part! :D

[Barbara Moulton]

Thaine wrote:
.....not the weird part!


Hang around here long enough and you may agree with the weird assessment!

And welcome.

[Mike Wooldridge]

Moderators, thanks for moving my message, guess I didn't search correctly.:) The reason I asked is that when I was growing up my uncle was a Nazarene pastor and it seemed they were always doing something for the church with not much "family time." I think that would lead to burnout, family problems and men and women leaving the pastoral ministry

[Gina Stevenson]

Hey, Barbara! I see we have another "doggie" person here ... notice the dog with bunny ears, apparently helping to celebrate Easter? :cool:

Welcome, Thaine, and whoever your bunny-eared friend is (name?). ;)

[Jim Monck]

Moderators, thanks for moving my message, guess I didn't search correctly.:) The reason I asked is that when I was growing up my uncle was a Nazarene pastor and it seemed they were always doing something for the church with not much "family time." I think that would lead to burnout, family problems and men and women leaving the pastoral ministry

No, no Mike. Guilt can be a great motivator well into your 70's and 80's. Burnout is a new idea that came in with video games and computers. Actually that is a good question; when did the term burnout come into our thinking and vocabulary? I would look it up myself but I don't want to burn myself out.:cool:

[Ian Gentles]

Burnout is real

[Barbara Moulton]

Hey, Barbara! I see we have another "doggie" person here ... notice the dog with bunny ears, apparently helping to celebrate Easter? :cool:

Welcome, Thaine, and whoever your bunny-eared friend is (name?). ;)

I hadn't noticed. Thanks for pointing it out.

Thaine...please do tell us about the doggy!

[David Showalter]

Gord Evans shares,

So, what else did you want to know?

David asks,

Have you had this blessed privilege of preparing 100 messages a year for the church family?

[Thaine Sprenger]

David Showalter....
Your name kind of rings a bell. did you attend BNC in the early 70's?

[Jamie Wayne]

As an Anglican deacon, my brother observes the Jewish Sabbath because he has to work on Sundays. Seems fair to me, but I'd never be legalistic about what any pastor does in regard to this issue.

[Thaine Sprenger]

Barbara and Gina,
Oh yes... dogs abound around here. My sister can train a seeing eye dog, tho she teaches and doesn't take the time for that. She teaches vision impaired kids.

The dog in the photo is her rescue doberman. It was being abused by its owner in the military. The breeder found out and walked in on the guy and intimidated him soundly and walked out with the dog. The breeder is tougher than the dobermans or the military! It took a year and a half, but the dog is now a sweety. She saw kids wearing the ears on easter day, and I stuck them on her. Don't know if you can see it in the low quality image, but her eyes just danced... she thought it was so funny to have them on. Her name is Bekka, but her nickname is "Boo!" cause she runs up to you full speed THEN figures out if she knows you from about a foot away, barking all the while. Boy, does she look sheepish when she realizes she knows you, after raising such a fuss.

She just tollerated me for the longest time, then I pulled the proverbial thorn from her foot once. She never forgot that, now she runs up and leans against me, I'm in her inner circle! Here is the origional photo if you care to look...

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2365992660101520687lADrnm
I also have two rescued-from-the-pound dogs that guard my business property... used to be an acre garden center. A hundred pound hound mix known as "Deut"... for Deuteronomy... a book of the law... named as the dog was supposed to lay the law down! And a sixty pound shar-pi mix who escaped from where-ever to get here, so goes by "hootie" for Houdini. Here are some photos of them and some sculptures I've done in my second, er, third career...

http://community.webshots.com/slideshow/559456142mcpUGq

[Thaine Sprenger]

Lex orandi, lex credendi....
Jamie, what does that mean? something about oration and credentials?