Where Is The Soul?

[Mike Wooldridge]

Let me preface the thread with a couple of "disclaimers." First, I absolutely believe in continued existence after physical death. Second, I know this topic raises all kinds of other ethical and moral questions, but my main question for this thread is, "Where is the soul?"
Suppose you visit your doctor and are told that even though your brain is functioning normally your body is failing and you have a choice to make. You can do nothing and probably pass away peacefully in about three months. The other choice is to take part in an experiment in which your brain is transplanted into a bio-mechanical replica of your body. Because "your" body is not living tissue there will be no rejection and you will have roughly the same physical ability a healthy person has. Your mental, emotional and spiritual state should also be that of a healthy person. After some consideration you decide to take part in the experiment and it is a complete success. After a period of adjustment you pretty much forget "you" are not in the body you started with.
Years go by and you're not feeling well. You go to your andro-physician and are told that "your" body is fine but your brain is aging and will soon be unable to send the signals to control the body you "live" in. Again you're given a choice. If you do nothing your brain will soon be unable to control the body. The body will stop functioning and your brain will die. You're told the other option is to have everything that is "you"- thoughts, beliefs, ideals, emotions, drives-digitized and loaded into a hyper-processing unit that should very closely approximate your physical brain. It's explained that your physical brain will be destroyed by this process, so there's no turning back once it's started. You again decide to try the experiment and soon find yourself in a body and brain you feel very comfortable with. You go to your pastor and ask the one question that troubles you, "Where is my soul?"

[Brad Mercer]

I've actually had that done and it turns out you can actually have your original body and brain cryogenically preserved and then restored later when you figure out that physical humor isn't as funny in even the most advanced mechanical body.

And God says I don't need to worry about my soul. He won't lose it.

Sorry, it's a great question but I don't have any serious thoughts on it. I'm sure someone else will.

Brad

[Mike Wooldridge]

I thought it might be more interesting than, "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"
A. None if they're real NAZARENE angels. :rolleyes:
Have a great evening, Brad. :)

[Gina Stevenson]

On the bottom of your shoe ... but it's spelled wrong in the caption; it's "s-o-l-e." Sorry (at least a little), just couldn't resist. I'd better get back to bed ... quick! ... before I get even sillier ..........

[Mike Wooldridge]

On the bottom of your shoe ... but it's spelled wrong in the caption; it's "s-o-l-e." Sorry (at least a little), just couldn't resist. I'd better get back to bed ... quick! ... before I get even sillier ..........

Talk to you later, g-b! :)

[Ian Gentles]

I am aq living soul that will never perish. I exist in a body and have a brain ( I think). Damage the body and or the brain and i am still a living soul.

[Gina Stevenson]

I am aq living soul that will never perish. I exist in a body and have a brain ( I think). Damage the body and or the brain and i am still a living soul.

Ian, wasn't sure if you meant, "I think" (because I have a brain, I can think),
or
"have a brain (I think)," meaning you "think" (but maybe aren't sure) it's up there ... somewhere! ;)

Sorry, just couldn't resist. :basic05

[Ian Gentles]

Ian, wasn't sure if you meant, "I think" (because I have a brain, I can think),
or
"have a brain (I think)," meaning you "think" (but maybe aren't sure) it's up there ... somewhere! ;)

Sorry, just couldn't resist. :basic05


Was questioning if i had one lol

[Gina Stevenson]

Was questioning if i had one lol

Yeah, we knew dat ... had to pick on ya, anyway. :basic05

[Ian Gentles]

Yeah, we knew dat ... had to pick on ya, anyway. :basic05


Thats OK

[Greg Farra]

Sounds like a Star Trek episode or two. Remember when the alien babes stole Spock's brain? And when Nurse Chapel's fiance had all of his mental capacities transfered to an android?

And back a few years ago, a baseball player had been beaned by a ball. The headline read something like, " so-and-so has head examined; nothing found".:p

[Ryan Scott]

I don't think "souls" exist. We get that idea from Greek philosophy and we got too lazy to come up with a better way to explain things.

The Hebrew philosophy of the Old Testament required both the intellectual and physical parts of our being to have a person. The New Testament clearly speaks of a bodily resurrection with incorruptible bodies.

I take this very seriously. I don't think we have some spirit that leaves out body when we die and hangs out in heaven until we can come back. I'd be fine with that, in fact it might be fun, I just don't see how that's all that Biblical of a view.

Sure Paul uses the occasional soul language in his writing, but he was working within that same Greek context as well.

I think this is another one, where we don't necessarily have to agree. When I'm asked what happens to people when we die, I simply tell them we're with Jesus. I don't know what that means, detail wise, but its certainly a good enough explanation for me.

[Mike Wooldridge]

I don't think "souls" exist. We get that idea from Greek philosophy and we got too lazy to come up with a better way to explain things.

The Hebrew philosophy of the Old Testament required both the intellectual and physical parts of our being to have a person. The New Testament clearly speaks of a bodily resurrection with incorruptible bodies.

I take this very seriously. I don't think we have some spirit that leaves out body when we die and hangs out in heaven until we can come back. I'd be fine with that, in fact it might be fun, I just don't see how that's all that Biblical of a view.

Sure Paul uses the occasional soul language in his writing, but he was working within that same Greek context as well.

I think this is another one, where we don't necessarily have to agree. When I'm asked what happens to people when we die, I simply tell them we're with Jesus. I don't know what that means, detail wise, but its certainly a good enough explanation for me.
I used the word "soul" because most people think
of that when they think of that part of us that continues after physical death. I prefer the word "essence" because that which leaves the body at physical death is the real "you." I saw/experienced that leave Mary "in the twinkling of an eye" at the time of her physical death. I take it very seriously, too. That's why I asked the question.

[Ryan Scott]

I just wonder if we have to believe that twinkle goes somewhere? I know it must be more difficult for you to talk about these things with the loss still pretty close, I don't want to upset you.

I don't necessarily see a problem believing that some sort of "essence" leaves the body to survive until the bodily resurrection, but it seems like this idea has led us down some weird paths with people winging themselves through heaven, etc.

It can make us feel better to think that our loved ones are some place super nice, right when they die, but I think the New Testament used the term "falling asleep" for a reason.

[Mike Wooldridge]

I just wonder if we have to believe that twinkle goes somewhere? I know it must be more difficult for you to talk about these things with the loss still pretty close, I don't want to upset you.

I don't necessarily see a problem believing that some sort of "essence" leaves the body to survive until the bodily resurrection, but it seems like this idea has led us down some weird paths with people winging themselves through heaven, etc.

It can make us feel better to think that our loved ones are some place super nice, right when they die, but I think the New Testament used the term "falling asleep" for a reason.
I don't "know" where Mary is but I absolutely know that she is (still existing.)

[Gina Stevenson]

Actually, what I've wondered, because we always hear of the bodily resurrection being later, is that if that is actually so, then with what are these people who are seen [sort as part of the party---accompanying the angels doing their ushering-to-heaven task(?)] by those at death's door. If there's not any body attached to one's essence, then how are they recognized by those nearly gone, who seem to be very close to that "other side," seeing things those alive do not see, hearing things those alive do not hear, etc?

Or would it possibly be that one's essence recognizes the spiritual essence of another sufficiently to attach "in their mind's eye" that physical remembrance they have of them, so that it appears they "see them" as they were when they knew them on this earth, tho' it is indeed simply their essence, sans body, that is present there, rather than their essence dressed in their "resurrection body" ... ?? Interesting concept to think about, knowing there's so much we know about the mind's capabilities ... and how much is it capable of that we have not yet even perceived [such as this question posed earlier within this paragraph] ... about "the mind's eye," rather than the physical eyes ................

PS * is it time this be moved from the "fun" forum to another one, as it's gone serious ... seriously. gs

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

The spirit of Mary is probably with the Saviour, but not yet united with her new body.
Sometimes we can feel the spirit of a person, or hear something on the telephone when they answer, even before the person actually speaks out loud. But, we know who it is. Maybe, the soul is the breath of God that is breathed into everyone. We give our ourselves back to Christ, but everyone does not do that. So, in torment, they are absent from the Lord, it seems, without a soul, but still the ability to feel pain, and agonize over what they did not do. Dwayne cannot be sure that this is right, but it is the way I have been thinking--and wondering.

[Mike Wooldridge]

Actually, what I've wondered, because we always hear of the bodily resurrection being later, is that if that is actually so, then with what are these people who are seen [sort as part of the party---accompanying the angels doing their ushering-to-heaven task(?)] by those at death's door. If there's not any body attached to one's essence, then how are they recognized by those nearly gone, who seem to be very close to that "other side," seeing things those alive do not see, hearing things those alive do not hear, etc?

Or would it possibly be that one's essence recognizes the spiritual essence of another sufficiently to attach "in their mind's eye" that physical remembrance they have of them, so that it appears they "see them" as they were when they knew them on this earth, tho' it is indeed simply their essence, sans body, that is present there, rather than their essence dressed in their "resurrection body" ... ?? Interesting concept to think about, knowing there's so much we know about the mind's capabilities ... and how much is it capable of that we have not yet even perceived [such as this question posed earlier within this paragraph] ... about "the mind's eye," rather than the physical eyes ................

PS * is it time this be moved from the "fun" forum to another one, as it's gone serious ... seriously. gs
I don't know what Mary is doing but I know she's safe and infinitely joyous, Danny too. I believe God sometimes opens a kind of "door" to the next dimension to some of those about to enter it. Most things about that we don't know because we "see throuugh a glass darkly." The one thing Mary did worry about was someone to "take care of" me when she was gone. God is taking care of that nicely. I'm not sure how theologically sound this is, but at times I feel a very warm and comforting presence that feels like Mary.
gina, this is in the Theology Forum, right? ;)

[Gina Stevenson]

I'm not sure how theologically sound this is, but at times I feel a very warm and comforting presence that feels like Mary.

Yes, I know that feeling.

gina, this is in the Theology Forum, right? ;)

Yeah, last I noticed, it had indeed been moved.

[Ian Gentles]

I don't know what the Mary is doing but I know she's safe and infinitely joyous, Danny too. I believe God sometimes opens a kind of "door" to the next dimension to some of those about to enter it. Most things about that we don't know because we "see throuugh a glass darkly." The one thing Mary did worry about was someone to "take care of" me when she was gone. God is taking care of that nicely. I'm not sure how theologically sound this is, but at times I feel a very warm and comforting presence that feels like Mary.
gina, this is in the Theology Forum, right? ;)

I think we simply step into another, far better, dmension. Hey if i am with the Lord who cares ;)

[Scott Daniels]

If you are interested in a pretty good (and pretty readable) book that looks at the most dominant theories among Christian scholars and scientists I recommend the book at the link below. It is edited by Joel Green - In Search of the Soul: Four Views of the Mind-Body Problem. I studied with Nancey Murphy and like her: Bodies and Souls, or Spirited Bodies? She has also edited a book together with Warren Brown (Shelburn Brown's son) entitled Whatever Happened to the Soul?

I really like Murphy and Brown, but I tend to lean toward what is labeled Emergent Dualism in Green's book (which has nothing to do with emergent theology btw). This view basically says that our soul is the name that we give to the spiritual essence that emerges from the unique and mysterious combination of all that makes us human. (We are more than the sum of our parts, but we are parts first). That essence is intricately linked to our bodies so that the shaping of that essence's character and nature can't be separated from our physical experiences. But that essence, in a way that we cannot yet understand or explain is "kept" in some way as eternal by a loving God. That essence however, will in some way or another always be linked or reconnected to some form of embodiedness.

That's kind of complicated. It's easier to be one extreme or the other (extreme Greek view or extreme Hebrew view) but I kind of like some via media, even if I can't explain it.

http://www.amazon.com/Search-Soul-Views-Mind-body-Problem/dp/0830827730/ref=sr_1_1/002-3341470-7400850?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187754791&sr=8-1

[Roland Hearn]

This view basically says that our soul is the name that we give to the spiritual essence that emerges from the unique and mysterious combination of all that makes us human. (We are more than the sum of our parts, but we are parts first). That essence is intricately linked to our bodies so that the shaping of that essence's character and nature can't be separated from our physical experiences. But that essence, in a way that we cannot yet understand or explain is "kept" in some way as eternal by a loving God. That essence however, will in some way or another always be linked or reconnected to some form of embodiedness.

Boy that is such a great statement Scott. Every now and then you read something that precisely defines what you know to be true. This is a great balanced and potent statement. Thanks for taking the time to capture the essence of the book in this statement - this is now my position.