Tim Tebow: Will he play? Sit? Or will his NFL career be a bust?

[Bob Hunter]

Okay, I know it is a bit early to start kicking around NFL predictions (in fact, Shea Z. is going to kill me for this!) But.....I would like to see comments regarding Tim Tebow. He is the biggest rookie story in the NFL right now. His rookie Jersey sold more than any other. He has an enormous fan base and the list goes on.

Question: Will he play? Sit? Or will his NFL career be a bust?

How does Josh McDaniel's get this guy on the field? You can bet everyone will be watching and the Broncos will be one of the most watched teams this year.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/07/21/thinking-ahead-to-tebow-time/

Appreciate your comments...

[Ryan Scott]

I thought McDaniels already said he's planning to start Tebow this season. Maybe not the first few games, but after using that pick on him, he's got to get him on the field soon.

[Billie Goodson]

Tebow will return to the position he last played in high school -- nose tackle and have a mediocre career.

That being said, I am really excited to see him play and wish him the best. I am now relieved of my debate over liking/hating UF since he is gone.

[Jim Abrams]

From a defensive point of view, Tim's big name rookie status puts a really big target on him. I look for Tebow to get rocked in a late pre-season game and play out the rest of the year on and off the IR.

[Bob Hunter]

From a defensive point of view, Tim's big name rookie status puts a really big target on him. I look for Tebow to get rocked in a late pre-season game and play out the rest of the year on and off the IR.

Jim,

Disagree with this assumption, because Tim Tebow is in great shape physically. He is 6'3" 250 lbs and benches 400 lbs. When he goes down, he gets right back up. He has never spent much time on the injured list. He has no inhibitions about running the ball. He's a dual threat kind of guy who will terrorize defenses. He will get sacked, but I don't think it will put him on the sidelines for very long. Again, we are all speculating which is kinda fun.

[Ryan Scott]

I don't think he'll ever be a great NFL quarterback. I'm not sure he'll ever start a full season anywhere (other than maybe Denver this year). I just don't think he's well suited to the position at the NFL level.

That being said, I think McDaniels is the kind of guy who can devise ways to use him well.

[Billie Goodson]

I don't think he'll ever be a great NFL quarterback. I'm not sure he'll ever start a full season anywhere (other than maybe Denver this year). I just don't think he's well suited to the position at the NFL level.

That being said, I think McDaniels is the kind of guy who can devise ways to use him well.

I simply can't side against Tebow when it comes to thinking whether or not he can make it in the NFL as a QB. I have sided against him too often in the past and been proven wrong. That being said, even if he can't make it as an NFL QB, he is probably more prepared for life outside of football than probably most other 1st and 2nd round picks over the past 10 years. I hate UF, but I could not cheer against them as long as Tebow was there, and that is not because of his religious views but his personality (ok, his religious views are clearly demonstrated in his personality).

My question is whether people can rise above their prejudices to give him a chance. That never happened with Doug Flutie in the NFL and could happen to Tebow.

[Bob Hunter]

IF Tim Tebow sees the field this year, and I think he will, look for a wildcat formation. Tebow's experience with the spread option offense in Florida gives him the experience he needs for this, the only difference is that the spread uses the shotgun formation and wildcat takes a direct snap. The wildcat formation could have Tebow lining up as a receiver and a running back taking the snap. Once the running back takes the snap he can toss it to the quarterback who can then decide where to go with it. In Tebow's case he can decide to run or pass. The wildcat formations are confusing to defenses. Of course, a steady diet of wildcat plays is going to cue a defense in on what to look for. But then, McDaniels has the option of going the more conventional route and running the ball on sweeps, etc. The wildcat formation is not a whole offensive philosophy, it is something nice to have in your hip pocket and pull out in situations where it is 3rd 12 yards and the defense is reading everything you call. Anyway, just kicking that out there since wildcat formations are becoming more accepted in the NFL and not just regarded as a College scheme.

[Ryan Scott]

I simply can't side against Tebow when it comes to thinking whether or not he can make it in the NFL as a QB.

You're right; I need to amend my statement. He's not a thrower; his improved, but not to an NFL level. Perhaps we'll see a time when you can succeed in the NFL without being a thrower, perhaps it's now. I don't know, but he's not ever going to by what to this point has been a prototypical NFL QB.

[Billie Goodson]

I don't know, but he's not ever going to by what to this point has been a prototypical NFL QB.

I would add that many of those guys who are touted as the prototypical QB's coming out of college are busts. There is a lot more than sheer physical talent that produces the top players. Will Tebow be a great QB? Who knows.

Drafted number 2 (QB) the last two years were Flacco and Sanchez. Before that, you have to look a while to find a successful one. Then there is Leinart -- wasn't he the prototypical guy?

[Ryan Scott]

I would add that many of those guys who are touted as the prototypical QB's coming out of college are busts. There is a lot more than sheer physical talent that produces the top players. Will Tebow be a great QB? Who knows.

Drafted number 2 (QB) the last two years were Flacco and Sanchez. Before that, you have to look a while to find a successful one. Then there is Leinart -- wasn't he the prototypical guy?

I don't think there's a formula for finding a QB that succeeds. Lots of good ones don't, but they can all throw - it's sort of a basic requirement. Tebow's never been accurate and his completion percentage is horrible. I think he can get to become serviceable, because of his running and leadership abilities. But even running QBs like Vick or Vince Young also had near perfect QB ratings in college - they hit their targets a lot. Tebow's just not a throw. He is a hard worker and McDaniels is creative. It's just that every odd is stacked against him.

[Bob Hunter]

I don't think there's a formula for finding a QB that succeeds. Lots of good ones don't, but they can all throw - it's sort of a basic requirement. Tebow's never been accurate and his completion percentage is horrible. I think he can get to become serviceable, because of his running and leadership abilities. But even running QBs like Vick or Vince Young also had near perfect QB ratings in college - they hit their targets a lot. Tebow's just not a throw. He is a hard worker and McDaniels is creative. It's just that every odd is stacked against him.

Where do you get your figures for Tebow's completion percentage? I think you are innaccurate. He had a higher pass rating than many other first rounds picks. Please check your facts because they don't match up. Allow me to share them with you. And by the way, Tebow had 31 more passing TDs than he did rushing.

Here are the cold hard facts:

Passing efficiency: Tebow not only set the SEC record for highest career passer rating, he also broke the standing NCAA record. Unfortunately for Tebow, so did another QB -- and by more than Tebow did.
The NCAA measures passing efficiency through a formula that considers completion percentage, yards per pass, touchdowns per pass and interceptions per pass. In that way, passers aren't judged by how much they throw, but by how well they throw.
Tebow's rating of 170.8 surpassed Wuerffel's mark of 163.6 in the SEC record book. It also surpassed the NCAA record of 168.9 set by Boise State's Brian Dinwiddie from 2000 through '03. However, Oklahoma's Sam Bradford, despite (or perhaps because of) missing most of the 2009 season, has a career passer rating of 175.6.

Need I say anymore? Tebow can pass the ball. The only glitch is his throwing motion which is said to have changed. We'll see...

[Ryan Scott]

Need I say anymore? Tebow can pass the ball. The only glitch is his throwing motion which is said to have changed. We'll see...

I'm not sure where I saw those numbers. It must be a different statistic. They had Michael Vick at number one all-time at something like 260. We'll see what happens. If they develop a west-coast offense type of package with short outs and run options, maybe he can do something.

[Billie Goodson]

Tebow's rating of 170.8 surpassed Wuerffel's mark of 163.6 in the SEC record book. It also surpassed the NCAA record of 168.9 set by Boise State's Brian Dinwiddie from 2000 through '03. However, Oklahoma's Sam Bradford, despite (or perhaps because of) missing most of the 2009 season, has a career passer rating of 175.6.


On the other hand, at least for Wueffel and (Ryan(?)) Dinwiddie great college stats didn't help them become household NFL names. Bradford played in a conference that in recent memory hasn't seen a pass defended so it will be interesting to see how he pans out.

[Billie Goodson]

I guess back to the original question -- I think Tebow will play in the NFL. I am not thoroughly convinced it will be at QB yet, though I hope so. I could really see him being an h-back in certain sets.

[Shea Zellweger]

Where do you get your figures for Tebow's completion percentage? I think you are innaccurate. He had a higher pass rating than many other first rounds picks. Please check your facts because they don't match up. Allow me to share them with you. And by the way, Tebow had 31 more passing TDs than he did rushing.

Here are the cold hard facts:

Passing efficiency: Tebow not only set the SEC record for highest career passer rating, he also broke the standing NCAA record. Unfortunately for Tebow, so did another QB -- and by more than Tebow did.
The NCAA measures passing efficiency through a formula that considers completion percentage, yards per pass, touchdowns per pass and interceptions per pass. In that way, passers aren't judged by how much they throw, but by how well they throw.
Tebow's rating of 170.8 surpassed Wuerffel's mark of 163.6 in the SEC record book. It also surpassed the NCAA record of 168.9 set by Boise State's Brian Dinwiddie from 2000 through '03. However, Oklahoma's Sam Bradford, despite (or perhaps because of) missing most of the 2009 season, has a career passer rating of 175.6.

Need I say anymore? Tebow can pass the ball. The only glitch is his throwing motion which is said to have changed. We'll see...

No, Tebow has not demonstrated he can pass the ball, and passer efficiency does not prove one's ability to pass the ball. An NFL Quarterback passes frequently- in 2009, the average number of pass attempts per game by starting QBs not named Seneca Wallace was above 30. The highest number of rushes per game was David Garrard, with less than 5 Rushes per game. Quarterback driven plays were pass plays more than 85% of the time, and that's not including sacs.
Over his final 3 seasons, Tebow attempted about 23 passes per game, and 14.5 rushes per game. That's a 39% rate of running the ball. If he's a starting QB in the NFL, they won't let him pull it down and run nearly that often. Defenses are faster, the gaps are smaller, and an NFL QB who tries to make a living in pounding the ball through the line is out of the league rather quickly. So, when he has to stay in the pocket, or scramble to make the pass, there's really no telling whether he'll be able to keep up the same rate of production. Based on the careers of other running QBs (Mike Vick, Vinc Young, Dave Garrard, etc.), it doesn't seem likely. I'm not saying he can't have success, but I AM saying that his college efficiency stats are basically irrelevant in this discussion, because they are obfuscated by his rushing numbers.

[Bob Hunter]

Point well taken Shea, but following that line of reasoning it would safe to say that no College QB is proven until they are put to the ultimate test of actually playing in the NFL. So I can accept that. All we have for now is the College stats which puts Tebow's efficiency right up there with the best. He also had very low interception rate. So when he did pass the ball he was accurate. That is all we have to go on, fair enough. I think the thing Tebow has in his favor is his size and sheer strength. The guy is built like a running back and has the ability move his body. But I don't agree that his college stats are basically irrelevant, they are relevant now, because they are all we have. Two years from now, they won't mean a thing. If Tebow hasn't established himself in two years, then I look for him to be a bust. It won't be the first time this has happened and it surely won't be the last. College careers are not a sure fire way to indicate future success at the professional level.

[Shea Zellweger]

Point well taken Shea, but following that line of reasoning it would safe to say that no College QB is proven until they are put to the ultimate test of actually playing in the NFL. So I can accept that. All we have for now is the College stats which puts Tebow's efficiency right up there with the best.
This is not an accurate representation of my point. Tebow rushed nearly 40% of the times he controlled the ball. Ryan Mallet, Jonathon Crompton, and Chris Todd all played in the SEC and rushed on less than 15% of their plays.


He also had very low interception rate. So when he did pass the ball he was accurate. That is all we have to go on, fair enough.
In addition, we know that he ran the ball at a very high rate, and ran a spread offense, which forced the defense to play run first and increased the likelihood of efficiency. That's my point. He won't be QBing like that in the NFL. The guys who played in offenses more similar to NFL offenses are more readily comparable. Yes, it's hard to say how the player's game will translate from college to the pros, but the guys that play a similar role in the NCAA are easier to gauge.


I think the thing Tebow has in his favor is his size and sheer strength. The guy is built like a running back and has the ability move his body.
Which makes him a great athlete, but does not help his case for being a starting QB.


But I don't agree that his college stats are basically irrelevant, they are relevant now, because they are all we have. Two years from now, they won't mean a thing. If Tebow hasn't established himself in two years, then I look for him to be a bust. It won't be the first time this has happened and it surely won't be the last. College careers are not a sure fire way to indicate future success at the professional level.

I disagree here as well. Tebow would be well-served to sit under a good QB for 2-3 years, see action on a fairly regular basis, and then transition into a starting role. IMHO, Orton and Quinn are not the right mentors for Tebow, but that would be a great route for him to go. Placing a 2 year shelf life on a guy whose been designated by most as a "project" is probably not the best idea.

[Bob Hunter]

I think the original claim was that Tebow's passing has not been established. I disagree completely and his college stats are all we have to form any such opinion. In fact, he averaged 267 yards per game passing in 2009. His college stats; completion rate, and average attempts, average yards per pass, etc. are strikingly similar to Drew Bledsoe's NFL career passing. So I don't think you can say he hasn't passed the ball efficiently or enough. Yes, he ran a lot, but then he was providing much of the offense for the Gators. Having Tebow was like having a running back and a QB all wrapped into one. No he won't play like that in the NFL. At least I don't think he will. Interestingly, Tebow is about the same size as Bledsoe, just 2 inches shorter and a couple pounds heavier. Moreover, Bledsoe only passed for 350 more yards in his senior season for the Washington Cougars than did Tebow. Tebow: 2,895 Bledsoe: 3,246. And by the way, Bledsoe lives here in Oregon now. And when he left the NFL he was seventh in passing yards.

Just to add a little perspective, this thread was intended to be speculative, so I'm not offended at all by those weighing in with different opinions on Tebow no matter what they are based on. I just find it fascinating to discuss. Who really knows what will actually happen. I haven't ruled out that he might be a total bust. I'm just trying to believe he is going to make it somehow.

[Shea Zellweger]

I think the original claim was that Tebow's passing has not been established. I disagree completely and his college stats are all we have to form any such opinion. In fact, he averaged 267 yards per game passing in 2009. His college stats; completion rate, and average attempts, average yards per pass, etc. are strikingly similar to Drew Bledsoe's NFL career passing. So I don't think you can say he hasn't passed the ball efficiently or enough. Yes, he ran a lot, but then he was providing much of the offense for the Gators. Having Tebow was like having a running back and a QB all wrapped into one. No he won't play like that in the NFL. At least I don't think he will. Interestingly, Tebow is about the same size as Bledsoe, just 2 inches shorter and a couple pounds heavier. Moreover, Bledsoe only passed for 350 more yards in his senior season for the Washington Cougars than did Tebow. Tebow: 2,895 Bledsoe: 3,246. And by the way, Bledsoe lives here in Oregon now. And when he left the NFL he was seventh in passing yards.

Just to add a little perspective, this thread was intended to be speculative, so I'm not offended at all by those weighing in with different opinions on Tebow no matter what they are based on. I just find it fascinating to discuss. Who really knows what will actually happen. I haven't ruled out that he might be a total bust. I'm just trying to believe he is going to make it somehow.

Bob,
You are either missing my point or ignoring it. Tebow's rushing stats prevent us from being able to gauge his ability as a passer. That wasn't the case for Bledsoe. It's not about how many passes he threw, it's about what percentage of his plays were pass plays vs. run plays. When a QB is running the ball 40% of the time, the pass game opens up for him because people are defending the run. Many of Tebow's passes were short passes and screen passes where yardage was picked up after the Catch. Tebow's game is so different from the kind of role that he would need to play in the NFL that it's impossible to gauge how it would translate. Ryan Mallet played QB in a manner similar to the way he will play in the NFL, which makes him easier to judge. There are no guarantees in regard to which college players will see continued success in the NFL, but it helps if they are playing an NFL-style game. Tebow was not, and it's been generally agreed upon that his style of Quarterbacking in the NCAA would not work in the NFL- his mechanics, his run-first attitude, constantly running the option... these are things that simply do not carry into the pros.

[Ryan Scott]

Tebow's passes over ten yards were shaky at best. He had an advantage only because when he moved from the pocket, the receivers got extra space to make up for his lack of accuracy. A couple of them even said as much - you know, how they looked forward to having a real QB this year. I think there's a place for him in the NFL if he wants it, however I suspect Tebow may want to do a little more with his life.

[Jim Poteet]

Tebow's passes over ten yards were shaky at best. He had an advantage only because when he moved from the pocket, the receivers got extra space to make up for his lack of accuracy. A couple of them even said as much - you know, how they looked forward to having a real QB this year. I think there's a place for him in the NFL if he wants it, however I suspect Tebow may want to do a little more with his life.

A study of Tebow's throwing mechanics is enough make one question his chance to ever play quarterback in the NFL. His release, low arm delivery and accuracy are all problems for him as he attempts to move to the pro level.

[Ryan Scott]

A study of Tebow's throwing mechanics is enough make one question his chance to ever play quarterback in the NFL. His release, low arm delivery and accuracy are all problems for him as he attempts to move to the pro level.

I don't even care about mechanics so much as results - wobbly passes that made his receivers work. His legs were his best weapon and I'm unsure, at this point, whether that will translate fully to NFL play.

[Bob Hunter]

Bob,
You are either missing my point or ignoring it. Tebow's rushing stats prevent us from being able to gauge his ability as a passer. That wasn't the case for Bledsoe. It's not about how many passes he threw, it's about what percentage of his plays were pass plays vs. run plays. When a QB is running the ball 40% of the time, the pass game opens up for him because people are defending the run. Many of Tebow's passes were short passes and screen passes where yardage was picked up after the Catch. Tebow's game is so different from the kind of role that he would need to play in the NFL that it's impossible to gauge how it would translate. Ryan Mallet played QB in a manner similar to the way he will play in the NFL, which makes him easier to judge. There are no guarantees in regard to which college players will see continued success in the NFL, but it helps if they are playing an NFL-style game. Tebow was not, and it's been generally agreed upon that his style of Quarterbacking in the NCAA would not work in the NFL- his mechanics, his run-first attitude, constantly running the option... these are things that simply do not carry into the pros.

Okay, now you are making sense. I can agree with what you are saying. But we could say that about any college QB. We could theorize that a QB did not have adequate NFL style receivers. We could say they did not have an effective offensive line. We could say a star running back or tight end made their stats what they are. The list goes on... I watched Joey Harrington play for Oregon what I thought was NFL style football, only to watch him go to the Lions become a bust. We just don't know. The only counter point I would make with Tebow is that his interception rate was pretty darn low for all the short passes he made and he had to make quite a few long ones to reach over 2,900 yards in one season! Remember Riley Cooper down the sideline? Tebow connected with Cooper many times in long yardage situations. I still think his passing game is noteworthy. I don't see how we can dismiss it, no one can. By the same token his passing game on the College level guarantees nothing in the NFL. It didn't for Harrington and it probably won't for Tebow. I've seen too many hopes dashed over the years, I know better. I can only hope the best for Tebow, because he is a nice guy, and I've been a gator fan for 20+ years!

[Shea Zellweger]

Okay, now you are making sense. I can agree with what you are saying. But we could say that about any college QB.
No, we cannot. Not every college QB runs like Tebow did.


We could theorize that a QB did not have adequate NFL style receivers. We could say they did not have an effective offensive line. We could say a star running back or tight end made their stats what they are. The list goes on...
But that's not the same as what I said. It's one thing to say a QB's stats were helped or hurt by his teammates. It's another thing entirely to say that player's game does not translate well to the NFL.

I watched Joey Harrington play for Oregon what I thought was NFL style football, only to watch him go to the Lions become a bust. We just don't know.
You're right, we don't know. I didn't say we know. I said Tebow's pass stats are not evidence of him being a good QB. His mechanics were dreadful and he could not throw deep passes with much accuracy- that's much more evidence of how he played than a good completion rate for throwing a bunch of short passes and letting his receivers leg it out.

The only counter point I would make with Tebow is that his interception rate was pretty darn low for all the short passes he made and he had to make quite a few long ones to reach over 2,900 yards in one season! Remember Riley Cooper down the sideline? Tebow connected with Cooper many times in long yardage situations. I still think his passing game is noteworthy. I don't see how we can dismiss it, no one can.
And yet many experts have dismissed it because it would be unsuccessful at the pro level.


By the same token his passing game on the College level guarantees nothing in the NFL. It didn't for Harrington and it probably won't for Tebow. I've seen too many hopes dashed over the years, I know better. I can only hope the best for Tebow, because he is a nice guy, and I've been a gator fan for 20+ years!

I have no problem with you hoping for Tebow to do well, but up until this point his pro day has been the only time any scouts thought he looked like he was getting there, and none have said he was there. Maybe his mechanics will improve. Maybe he'll learn how to stay in the pocket. Anything's possible, but what we can say with certainty is that if Tebow tries to play in the pros like he played in college, he won't last very long.

[Bob Hunter]

Yeah, i don't disagree the idea that he has to play differently. But now he has John Elway singing his praises!

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/07/john-elway-praises-ability-of-broncos-rookie-qb-tim-tebow-demeanor-of-kyle-orton/1

He seems to be winning over people. And again, I want to believe it, because he is a nice guy and a Christian, and don't we all want to see the good guys win. But I also accept reality, and I know that in spite of good intentions players sometimes don't succeed. And sometimes, underdogs succeed too! We'll see...

[Ryan Scott]

Yeah, i don't disagree the idea that he has to play differently. But now he has John Elway singing his praises!

That's not necessarily a good thing. Despite his public persona, Elway is one of the most self-centered egotistical stars out there. There's nothing he'd love more than to never have a Denver QB as good as he was.

[Bob Hunter]

That's not necessarily a good thing. Despite his public persona, Elway is one of the most self-centered egotistical stars out there. There's nothing he'd love more than to never have a Denver QB as good as he was.

Are you trying to say that Elway has an ego? Really? I hated Elway for what he did to the Cleveland Browns all those years. But he just might be speaking the truth about Tebow. It could be that Tebow proves all of his critics wrong as he has done before.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

I don't know: can a 23 year old publish "memoirs" (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/08/tim-tebow-memoir-set-to-b_n_780288.html)?

[Kevin Rector]

I don't know: can a 23 year old publish "memoirs" (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/08/tim-tebow-memoir-set-to-b_n_780288.html)?

I don't know, seems a bit odd to me, but I guarantee it will be a best-seller at Lifeway Christian Bookstores.

[Bob Hunter]

Well friends, Tebow passed for over 300 yards today and led the Broncos to a late season win over Texans. All the Tebow haters are going to eat it on this one, they said he couldn't pass. Now Kyle Orton is a great passer, but for all of his passing the Broncos posted their worst record in 12 years over the last 2 seasons (of course many other factors contributed to that). Too early to tell if he'll make it, apparently Orton's bruised ribs are not the only reason Tebow got the nod to start. Coach Studesville made it clear that Tebow is the starter for the remainder of the season regardless. Orton, reportedly, now has a bruised ego to go along with his bruised ribs.

[Joe Hittle]

Orton, reportedly, now has a bruised ego to go along with his bruised ribs.

Orton has never had a chance to show what he could do in an offense that makes sense. He's been through "stupid" before, and simply got more of the same in Denver. Whether or not he'll ever get a chance to play for a solid system remains to be seen. But Chicago, under Ron Turner was definitely not it, and it doesn't appear to me that Denver's scheme even came close to what he had with the Bears.

If I have a historical AFC favorite, Denver is it. But there hasn't been a lot to cheer about there (in terms of consistency) for many-a-year now.

Joe

[Bob Hunter]

Orton has never had a chance to show what he could do in an offense that makes sense. He's been through "stupid" before, and simply got more of the same in Denver. Whether or not he'll ever get a chance to play for a solid system remains to be seen. But Chicago, under Ron Turner was definitely not it, and it doesn't appear to me that Denver's scheme even came close to what he had with the Bears.

If I have a historical AFC favorite, Denver is it. But there hasn't been a lot to cheer about there (in terms of consistency) for many-a-year now.

Joe

I agree, Orton may end up being one of those NFL players that are a victim of circumstance and bad luck. I actually think he has a lot of skills and his numbers bear that out. I just wonder if Tebow wins another game for Denver what that will mean. He is under contract through 2012 so he will at least be around for another year, but will he start?

[Bob Hunter]

Wow, Tebow may have converted a few doubters. The last two games were pretty impressive, he passed for over 300 against the Texans, he threw two TD passes and rushed for one against the Chargers. The biggest contribution is what Tebow brings to the morale of the team. He motivates. The offense is behind him. The games are exciting. You never know what he is going to do. He runs, passes, rolls, etc. He may never be a hall of famer, but we'll be glad he played the game. I predict Tebow the starter in Denver 2011, they will probably go 9-8 and get a wild card.

[David Morris]

I predict Tebow the starter in Denver 2011, they will probably go 9-8 and get a wild card.

Guess there was a compromise and the NFL is going to a 17 game format next year :-)

[Bob Hunter]

haha good point David, it will probably be 18. Anyway, Kyle Orton expects to be the starter next year in Denver, we'll see...the Tebow Train has left the station and I don't think it is going to stop. Already people are hammering him for not passing more than 50% completion. Holy heck folks, look at Manning's first year stats. He was 56 pct. 26 tds and 28 INT's, 71.2 passer arting. 16 games. I think Tebow could have exceeded that given his performance the last three games.