Pastoral tenure

[Donna Adams]

How long has your pastor been at your church? What is the average stay now? Is it still about 3.5 years?
On December 1st my husband Michael will begin his 12th year here! We are so amazed. We know that is way above average.
When we came here, we had three teenagers, a freshman in college, a high school freshman and one in 8th grade. Now those kids have grown up, are married and all are parents! MERCY! I feel old..but blessed!
Alot has changed in the last 11 years, and so much more needs to be done, we are excited, somewhat to see what will happen next!

[Cindi Hammons]

At our former church, our last pastor had been there 16 years. We pray the new pastors will also have long tenure. At our current church, the pastor has been there 11 years (I think).

I think long tenure is a good thing...unless there are problems and neither the pastor nor the church will budge. That can be bad. What can a pastor and church really accomplish when the pastor only stays for 3.5 years? As I said, long tenure is a good thing.

Congrats on 12 years!

[Pete Vecchi]

At our former church, our last pastor had been there 16 years. We pray the new pastors will also have long tenure. At our current church, the pastor has been there 11 years (I think).

I think long tenure is a good thing...unless there are problems and neither the pastor nor the church will budge. That can be bad. What can a pastor and church really accomplish when the pastor only stays for 3.5 years? As I said, long tenure is a good thing.

Congrats on 12 years!

Did I miss something Cindi? Are you at a different church now?

[Alisa Stoll]

Our current pastor has been with our church for 21 years - 11 as youth pastor and 10 as senior. The senior pastor before him had over 20 years before he retired.

Alisa

[Dave McClung]

How long has your pastor been at your church? What is the average stay now? Is it still about 3.5 years?
On December 1st my husband Michael will begin his 12th year here! We are so amazed. We know that is way above average.
When we came here, we had three teenagers, a freshman in college, a high school freshman and one in 8th grade. Now those kids have grown up, are married and all are parents! MERCY! I feel old..but blessed!
Alot has changed in the last 11 years, and so much more needs to be done, we are excited, somewhat to see what will happen next!

It has been almost 20 years since the report of the Commission on the Call of Pastors. I was secretary of that Commission. As a result of the changes proposed by that commission, the average tenure of pastors has doubled, but still needs to be longer.

One change is that churches are taking a lot longer to select pastors than they once did. Because people know that it is harder to get rid of a pastor they don't like, they are being more careful in the selection process -- that is good!! Our church has taken six months and still has not found a pastor. When we get one, we want to keep her or him for a long time.

Dave

[Cindi Hammons]

Yes, we are now attending Cornerstone CON in Wheelersburg, Ohio.

[Larry Belew]

I was children's pastor at Wichita First Churh of the Nazarene for thirteen years when the tenure of associates was very short. Gene Williams was senior pastor then I think he was there for 26 years and followed G.A. Gough was was senior pastor there for 23 years. I worked with two youth pastors there who stayed about seven years, and one of the associates was there seventeen or eighteen years. The staff worked hard and the congregation knew how to spoil us. The church was strong and healthy and a testament to the value of many years with the right man or woman on the job.

[Jim Franklin]

Today's Idaho Statesman in an article told of the current retirement of former General Superintendent, Dr. Jerald Johnson, on his retirement as 2 year interim pastor of Valley Shepherd Church of the Nazarene and the introduction of Dr, Tim Pusey as the new pastor.

Dr. Johnson and Alice are planning a trip to Germany in the Spring I believe.

[Hans Deventer]

Today's Idaho Statesman in an article told of the current retirement of former General Superintendent, Dr. Jerald Johnson, on his retirement as 2 year interim pastor of Valley Shepherd Church of the Nazarene and the introduction of Dr, Tim Pusey as the new pastor.

Thanks Jim! Anyone who's interested, you can find the story here (http://www.idahostatesman.com/562/story/219447.html).

My guess is that Jerald knew that it was Moses who did so, I presume the journalist didn't. But nice story anyway.

[Jim Franklin]

I caught that too. But it would be unusual for an American journalist to get anything about the Bible currectly. When you come for the conference at NNU in February I will be glad to take you through the new sanctuary.

[Gary Swartzlander]

21 years next summer and just enlisted for another 4 at least.

[William Hunter]

On Dec. 14 I start my 11th year here, but right now I feel pretty well discouraged and ready to leave if I could. There's no one to really talk to. One thing I've learned in more than 32 yrs. of ministry, while you might wish for Christ's face with skin on it, you cannot be open and share your heart. I turn 61 on Dec. 14th and for the first time long for retirement.

[Michael B. Ross]

Donna: first, congratulations on your and Michael's long-term ministry. it speaks highly of you, Michael and the congregation.

The average tenure has actually gone up in the US the last ten years. No one knows why. The average tenure in the US, all denominations, is now between 4 and 4.5 years.

How long has your pastor been at your church? What is the average stay now? Is it still about 3.5 years?
On December 1st my husband Michael will begin his 12th year here! We are so amazed. We know that is way above average.
When we came here, we had three teenagers, a freshman in college, a high school freshman and one in 8th grade. Now those kids have grown up, are married and all are parents! MERCY! I feel old..but blessed!
Alot has changed in the last 11 years, and so much more needs to be done, we are excited, somewhat to see what will happen next!

[Bob Wright]

We know that short pastorates are usually not very productive. It takes time for a pastor to gain the confidence and credibility necessary to really be effective; however, a long pastorate, can also be a problem, especially if changes need to be made. The former pastor has probably trained them well, and woe be to the new pastor who tried to fill his shoes, even if change is much needed. I know of some churches that think the things that worked 20 years ago will work now if they just try harder. This would not apply to a church that has changed with the times and that is a growing, active, church. Unfortunately, many are in decline and will continually point to the past and the way Pastor_____ did it. I feel sorry for the pastor that takes on one of those "challenges."

[Billy Cox]

I was children's pastor at Wichita First Churh of the Nazarene for thirteen years when the tenure of associates was very short. Gene Williams was senior pastor then I think he was there for 26 years and followed G.A. Gough was was senior pastor there for 23 years. I worked with two youth pastors there who stayed about seven years, and one of the associates was there seventeen or eighteen years. The staff worked hard and the congregation knew how to spoil us. The church was strong and healthy and a testament to the value of many years with the right man or woman on the job.

Hi Larry. I thought I recognized your name. I visited Wichita First Church with a group of NTS students when you were on staff there. My wife and I stayed overnight at your house.

Welcome to NazNet.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Do you think one reason for longer tenures is that the average age of pastors in the denomination is rising? I know that when I was younger I ran out of gas in a church sooner. My first three pastorates were 2, 4, and 3 years each. My last three were 8, 5, and now 8 years and counting.

[Cindi Hammons]

Wow Bill, I'm so sorry to hear that. I remember (and think of often) comments you made a while back saying that you had so many ideas and so few years left to do them in.

I will pray for you, your physical health, and your church.

[Mamie White]

We followed a pastor in AR that had been there years + years, not sure how long. All we could hear was Bro. Buzz did this, Bro. Buzz did that, "He would have never done it that way." We stayed there over 8 years and when we left I asked the people, "Please do not tell your next pastor how Bro. White did things." We left in 2001 and they are now in search of their fourth pastor since we left. The people are still saying, "Why does Bro. White not come back." SOOOO, long term is good for the pastor there and the church but it is sure not good for the pastors following the long term pastor.

We were asked to come back to AR for Thanksgiving this year we declined because we are trying to make things easier for the new pastor and he will not hear about Bro. White.

[Michael B. Ross]

That is a good insight, Scott. The aging of pastors probably is a factor.

I would suggest some others.
One would be the growing popularity of privately owned homes, as opposed to church owned parsonages.
Another might be the growing percentage of spouses with their own careers.
A third suggestion would be the narrowing of the funnel. In other words, with few large churches, many pastors would have the opportunity to move only laterally. So, why bother?
Maybe, and hopefully, pastors and congregations are learning the value of longer tenures and are committing to resolving conflict that would result in pastors not moving as often.Just some ideas.

Do you think one reason for longer tenures is that the average age of pastors in the denomination is rising? I know that when I was younger I ran out of gas in a church sooner. My first three pastorates were 2, 4, and 3 years each. My last three were 8, 5, and now 8 years and counting.

[Sue Pyles]

Our pastor has just started his 12th year.
It seems that he just arrived.That's a good thing!

[Barb Bouldrey]

We are in our 8th year here. Our last pastorate was 15 years and the one before that, 7.

We like to put down roots and become involved in the community as well as the lives of the congregation.

I agree that it is harder to follow a long term pastor than a short term pastor. We have found out that it is easier in many ways to be troubleshooters who follow a pastor who has really messed up.

When we left the 7 year pastorate, the next fellow stayed 18 months. He was aggrevated from the start by hearing, "Brother Bouldrey did it this way..." He needed to accept himself because I know those people would have accepted him.

We pastored a church the last time for 15 years and lived in a house and worshiped in a church that one pastor built "by himself." We heard over and over how Bro. Shearer handled every brick and board in those buildings. A stained glass window had his picture in it. But we loved, respected and revered that man. We were honored to pastor a church he had pastored. He trained those people how to be great laymen. He loved them and they loved him. All that was passed onto us, even though there were about 6 pastors between him and us. We loved to have him come visit.

Barb

[Billy Cox]

With the church growth movement waning or dead, it could also be that pastoral tenure is valuable now.

[Roland Hearn]

With the church growth movement waning or dead, it could also be that pastoral tenure is valuable now.

I don't get the connection Billy. As I recall one of the predictors of growth was long pastoral tenure.

[Charles W Christian]

I don't get the connection Billy. As I recall one of the predictors of growth was long pastoral tenure.

Roland -
I think Billy may mean two things:
1) Some parts of the Church Growth movements of the 80s/90s tended to be so programmatic that there was a sort of "sink or swim" mentality right away: "Either they'll follow the ______ model, or I'm out of here," INSTEAD OF looking for signs of God already at work and building relationships in that direction while leading forward, etc., etc. You know, prevenient grace at work (we do believe in prevenient grace, although we didn't always act like we did when we were busily implementing the 'latest, greatest' model)....

2) A very "top-down" approach, "pastor as CEO" kind of model that sometimes led to quick turnarounds in the short-run, but bred lots of burnout and/or strained long-term feelings as the congregation stabilized/grew.

If I could add a third it would be that so many churches became (still become!) "career booster" kinds of churches that get a DS's attention and spurs him/her to call the pastor with a "better opportunity" (i.e., a bigger church than the one you're at) elsewhere within the first few years. I've had such offers, as have many pastors, and I haven't had "spectacular growth" numbers too often, and I have friends who did come in early to a place with "success" (numerically -- a key DS measuring stick!) and then move on quickly.

For the record, my current assignment is where I "fit." It is not a big church, but it has steady growth and has a heart for its community. Also, they are thrilled about my teaching/writing/community involvement "habit" that is part of my calling. These factors, it seems to me, are better measuring sticks than moving to the "next big thing."

Blessings,
Charles

[Ed Phillips]

The Pastor of the Nazarene Church that Barb and I first went to after being in the Church of God of Anderson In. was there 16 years as Senior Pastor. He resigned almost 16 years to the date he was brought to the church. He is now the Assistant DS of that District. When he left he was to be a Full Time District Secretary of that District.

When we were in the Church of God the two pastors that were there when we were one had about 18 years at the Church and the next retired after 20 years as pastor and then as interim for almost 2 years.

Have A Great Day in the Lord on Sunday
Ed & Barbara Phillips
Baltimore MD
Mid-Atlantic District

[Larry Belew]

Barb,

You really made a great point about pastors accepting who they are and building on the past. It's a terrible mistake when a pastor is threatened by the successes of a colleague. It is equally sad when a new pastor, for whatever reason. moves to a church that is working and tries to change everything. I've seen more than one church that I've loved deeply wounded by new pastors who try to fix something that isn't broken. That's not only unwise, but it's an insult to the good people that have worked in the church for years. It's as much as telling them that they don't know how to run their own church. There is great wisdom in moving in, learning the history and culture of the church and then injecting your own personality and style over a period of time as you gain the trust of the people and receive clear direction from The Lord.

[Billy Cox]

I am referring to the stereotypical story of the hero-pastor who grows a church of 50 to 1,000 in 2-3 years. It followed therefore that if a pastor was at a church for 2-3 years and saw nothing spectactular, that he might as well continue searching for his miracle church.

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

My home pastor in SC served 40 years in one church. Moody Gunter's dad pastored a church in SC 38 years, before he retired.
Dwayne was at one church nearly 23 years. As I have said, Millington was organized for military to attend. So, most of the people were transient, but many got their feet down spiritually there, and helped carry the gospel around the world. Some became ordained elders. Numbers do not tell the whole story.