What a Mess, this BCS

[Bruce Carriker]

CBS Current projections:

BCS Championship - Missouri v. West Virginia
Rose Bowl - Ohio State v. Oregon
Sugar Bowl - LSU v. Hawaii
Fiesta Bowl - USC v. Kansas
Orange Bowl - Va Tech v. Georgia

Here are the two most things most obviously wrong this year, as things sit right now.

IF Tennessee holds on to beat Kentucky, the Vols, not Georgia, win the SEC East. Yet, Georgia will go to a BCS game unless Tennessee upsets LSU in the SEC championship.

If the winner of the KU-MU game were to lose to OU in the Big 12 title game, Ohio State would be in the BCS title game. Schools without conference championship games SHOULD NOT be allowed to sit idle and still move past a team that loses in a conference championship game.

[Mike Wooldridge]

BC-Mess! :q)

[Roland Hearn]

There are three things that are certain in life.
Death
Taxes
& that college bowl games are a mystery.

The one thing I do know from my seven years in Dallas is that every year most people think the system got it wrong at some point. I gave up trying to understand it. It is clear to me is that college football thrives on its ability to appeal to the parochial spirit. If it wasn't for the fact that so many people so clearly identify with" their" college the whole system would collapse from frustration. Is it possible the people in charge take advantage of that?

[Ryan Scott]

Schools without conference championship games SHOULD NOT be allowed to sit idle and still move past a team that loses in a conference championship game.


The problem is that their peers won't let them play in a championship game. I'm sure some of the other conferences would like to go to that format for the extra money they bring in, but it's been ruled that only conferences with 12 participating members can have a conference championship game for football.

[Bruce Carriker]

I'm not saying they should be forced to have a championship game. Just don't count the conference championship game in the BCS standings.

[Cindi Hammons]

Okay Bruce, I can agree with that. It would make it more fair when comparing championship game schools with those who do not have a championship game.

[Alisa Stoll]

I'm not saying they should be forced to have a championship game. Just don't count the conference championship game in the BCS standings.


I disagree based on history - remember when Oklahoma lost dramatically to Kansas and they still went to the title game to play LSU leaving USC in the cold. Then Oklahoma continued to lose big time while USC won big time in the Rose Bowl causing a split national championship. Oh and Ohio State did a nice job of beating Kansas that year in their bowl.

So I do think a loss should be taken into consideration.

Alisa

[Judy Hamilton]

I'm not saying they should be forced to have a championship game. Just don't count the conference championship game in the BCS standings.

Bruce.

you jogged my memory

the same scenario happened with OU
and if memory serves me well...


maybe the year OU lost to Kansas State??

when the rest of the nation did not have
to worry with a play-off????????

fill in the blanks..if you can remember

Judy

[Bruce Carriker]

I disagree based on history - remember when Oklahoma lost dramatically to Kansas and they still went to the title game to play LSU leaving USC in the cold. Then Oklahoma continued to lose big time while USC won big time in the Rose Bowl causing a split national championship. Oh and Ohio State did a nice job of beating Kansas that year in their bowl.

So I do think a loss should be taken into consideration.

Alisa

It really damages your credibility when you don't know the difference between Kansas and Kansas State. I assure you that folks in the Midwest know the difference. And we also know the difference between Ohio and Ohio State.

[Bruce Carriker]

In the fall of 2003 Kansas State upset Oklahoma in the Big 12 championship game. They then went to the Fiesta Bowl, where they lost to Ohio State, while Oklahoma went on to the national title game.

I'm not sure how changing the rules would have affected things that year, however. Oklahoma LOST in their conference championship game and still went to the national title game.

What I'm saying is that if Ohio State is rated 4th after this weekend, they should not pass MU or KU if either of them is rated 1st or 2nd and then loses to OU in the Big 12 title game. Ohio State should not benefit from not having to play a 13th game.

Or, as happened last year with Florida, a team should not get to climb in the rankings for winning a conference championship game when there is another team ahead of them that is idle because their conference doesn't play a championship game.

The BCS rankings when every team has completed their REGULAR SEASON should determine the participants in the BCS bowls. Then vote again after the bowls for final rankings.

[Bruce Carriker]

CBS Current projections:

BCS Championship - Missouri v. West Virginia
Rose Bowl - Ohio State v. Oregon
Sugar Bowl - LSU v. Hawaii
Fiesta Bowl - USC v. Kansas
Orange Bowl - Va Tech v. Georgia



Okay...this has already changed. Oregon is out.

USC now appears headed to the Rose Bowl against Ohio State, if they beat UCLA.

So, what does the Fiesta Bowl do? Is a two-loss Arizona State team still an attractive opponent against the Big 12's number two team? Or is ASU at home in Tempe "just another game" for Sun Devil fans?

[Alisa Stoll]

It really damages your credibility when you don't know the difference between Kansas and Kansas State. I assure you that folks in the Midwest know the difference. And we also know the difference between Ohio and Ohio State.

I'm sorry for you that you feel it damages my credibility when my point was about Oklahoma not Kansas/State. If my point had been about Kansas or Kansas State then I would agree with you. Obviously you figured out which situation I was talking about.

Alisa

[Alisa Stoll]

In the fall of 2003 Kansas State upset Oklahoma in the Big 12 championship game. They then went to the Fiesta Bowl, where they lost to Ohio State, while Oklahoma went on to the national title game.

I'm not sure how changing the rules would have affected things that year, however. Oklahoma LOST in their conference championship game and still went to the national title game.

What I'm saying is that if Ohio State is rated 4th after this weekend, they should not pass MU or KU if either of them is rated 1st or 2nd and then loses to OU in the Big 12 title game. Ohio State should not benefit from not having to play a 13th game.

Or, as happened last year with Florida, a team should not get to climb in the rankings for winning a conference championship game when there is another team ahead of them that is idle because their conference doesn't play a championship game.

The BCS rankings when every team has completed their REGULAR SEASON should determine the participants in the BCS bowls. Then vote again after the bowls for final rankings.

You are making my point. I think most would agree that Oklahoma should not have been in the title game after the conference championship loss. I also think that most would agree that based on their performance last year, that Florida deserved to move up and play in that game. Course being an OSU fan, I would have rather faced Michigan again.

Alisa

[Bruce Carriker]

I don't know how that makes your point.

The OU game is irrelvant to your point. Even after the voting AFTER the conference championship loss, they were still ranked #2.

Certainly based on their performance, you can argue that Florida was a better team than Michigan. That doesn't mean they "deserved" to go the the BCS title game because it's not about getting the two "best" teams, it's about getting the two highest ranked teams. Florida got a chance to improve their ranking that Michigan did not get. That's not fair to the teams from non-playoff conferences.

[Bruce Carriker]

I disagree based on history - remember when Oklahoma lost dramatically to Kansas and they still went to the title game to play LSU leaving USC in the cold. Then Oklahoma continued to lose big time while USC won big time in the Rose Bowl causing a split national championship. Oh and Ohio State did a nice job of beating Kansas that year in their bowl.

So I do think a loss should be taken into consideration.

Alisa

This is a true puzzler. The OU loss to K-State WAS taken into consideration, and in this particular case, it didn't change anything.

[Bruce Carriker]

Florida got a chance to improve their ranking that Michigan did not get. That's not fair to the teams from non-playoff conferences.

For the benefit of Alisa, THIS is my point. Arguing that Florida was a better team than Michigan is not germane. If they were a better team BEFORE the SEC championship game, why didn't the voters have them ranked ahead of Michigan BEFORE the SEC championship game?

[Jim Poteet]

There are three things that are certain in life.
Death
Taxes
& that college bowl games are a mystery.

The one thing I do know from my seven years in Dallas is that every year most people think the system got it wrong at some point. I gave up trying to understand it. It is clear to me is that college football thrives on its ability to appeal to the parochial spirit. If it wasn't for the fact that so many people so clearly identify with" their" college the whole system would collapse from frustration. Is it possible the people in charge take advantage of that?

Of course!

[Jim Franklin]

Roland, It is that old American capitalistic spirit. Book authors know that "conflict" sells books and to the powers of the BCS "conflict" sells tickets and makes everyone from the travel agencies, the transportation industries, the host and restaurant industries and local retail establishments who sell fan mommentoes happy. Therefore the schools in the "big markets" are favored for the bowls.

[Roland Hearn]

Jim,
surely there is a way to make money and have a system that appears to be just. It seems that most sports everywhere in the world including the US have systems that make money and manage to have the two best teams in the final event. Of course no other sport tries to have five separate championship games. These are the observations of an ignorant outsider and so not worth very much but it was the extent to which the average fan was frustrated with system that really amazed me. Surely there could be a divisional system with promotion and relegation to cater for the number of schools but that would ultimately come down to having one "super bowl" event and obviously no one really wants that.

[Bruce Carriker]

Jim,
surely there is a way to make money and have a system that appears to be just. It seems that most sports everywhere in the world including the US have systems that make money and manage to have the two best teams in the final event. Of course no other sport tries to have five separate championship games. These are the observations of an ignorant outsider and so not worth very much but it was the extent to which the average fan was frustrated with system that really amazed me. Surely there could be a divisional system with promotion and relegation to cater for the number of schools but that would ultimately come down to having one "super bowl" event and obviously no one really wants that.

Roland,

Every NCAA sport at every level has a playoff EXCEPT Division I football (now Bowl Subdivision - BS, how appropriate!). If you want to know why, go back and find Coach Poteet's explanation of how television and advertising money, and the influence of the BCS conferences control what happens in college football.

[Roland Hearn]

Yeh I think I do remember that discussion. I guess knowing something of the reason doesn't change to observation that here is a system that is clearly taking advantage of a powerful instinct in people. It probably is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to rework the system after so long but it does seem interesting that you can find practically no one anywhere that is satisfied that it works.

[Bruce Carriker]

Yeh I think I do remember that discussion. I guess knowing something of the reason doesn't change to observation that here is a system that is clearly taking advantage of a powerful instinct in people. It probably is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to rework the system after so long but it does seem interesting that you can find practically no one anywhere that is satisfied that it works.

In the United States we live by the Golden Rule, Roland: "Those with the gold make the rules." In college football, those with the gold are the BCS conferences and the TV networks.

[Jim Poteet]

Jim,
surely there is a way to make money and have a system that appears to be just. It seems that most sports everywhere in the world including the US have systems that make money and manage to have the two best teams in the final event. Of course no other sport tries to have five separate championship games. These are the observations of an ignorant outsider and so not worth very much but it was the extent to which the average fan was frustrated with system that really amazed me. Surely there could be a divisional system with promotion and relegation to cater for the number of schools but that would ultimately come down to having one "super bowl" event and obviously no one really wants that.

Roland,

There are about 15 or 20 universities that control the BCS. It is about money and power. They don't care about the other schools.

I decided to edit and share with you who are the power brokers in the BCS conferences. These are the schools that call all the shots. Pac 10 - USC, UCLA & Oregon (Nike money); Big 12 - Texas, Texas A&M, Nebraska; Big Ten - Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State; SEC - Florida, Alabama, Georgia, LSU; ACC - Florida State, Virgina Tech, North Carolina; Big East - West Virginia, Pittsburgh; Independent - Notre Dame. I believe I have named 19 schools. Very little happens in terms of the BCS without these schools approval.

The bowl system is great for these schools. About 28 get to end their season with a win. The 28 losers are able to say they went to a bowl game. However, if you had a playoff, all of the schools except for the national champion would end their season with a loss and that is not good when you have a system that now has 28 winners. They really don't want to have a national champion. They would rather talk about what might have been, rather than what was, with a true championship.