Heisman Trophy

[Ryan Scott]

Ok, so now we're past the deadline for votes (I think). Can we figure out who's going to win this thing?

I think Chase Daniel from Missouri is an incredible player, who's had a monster season. However, having been able to watch the Arkansas-LSU game last week, I have to give my vote to McFadden. He was absolutely amazing. His numbers might not be where I expected them to be, but I didn't realize that he was taking direct snaps on 85% of the plays.

Arkansas has been playing without a quarterback for a majority of their downs, using a variety of direct snaps and RB-RB handoffs to advance the ball. The game was just enthralling to watch, especially when McFadden threw a tough pass for a TD late in the game. He's the real deal who has had to take of a lot of extra responsibility this year. I think he deserves it, especially as all the other candidates seem to be playing themselves out of the race.

[Steven Kochersperger]

McFadden will probaby win...but its a shame this thing does not really go to the best player.

[Billie Goodson]

I would place it right now at:

McFadden -- body of work. Not just this year (I know it is if for this year, but, not everyone votes that way)-- Ryan's analysis dead on.

Tebow -- Astronomical numbers from a straight up kid. Watched him play in HS and he is authentic. Only a sophomore. If he was a Junior or Senior he would get it.

Chase Daniel -- Numbers. But, he plays on a team that might not have captured the attention of the voters who just vote from the TV. The late appearance of his name in the race could doom him.

[Steven Kochersperger]

I am a Louisville fan and do love Brian Brohm...this kid has had amazing numbers but won't get even a look because of his team performance.

[Bruce Carriker]

How the voting SHOULD go: Chase Daniel, Danny McFadden, Tim Tebow

How the voting WILL go: Tebow, McFadden, Daniel

[Ryan Scott]

What about Colt Brennan? Does he lose out to injuries like Mike Hart and Dennis Dixon?

[Billie Goodson]

What about Colt Brennan? Does he lose out to injuries like Mike Hart and Dennis Dixon?

It does not help that Hawaii has the weakest schedule by far than any other BCS Division team in the nation. In fact, many Football Championship Series teams play tougher schedules. Given that fact, Brennan is still only ranked #4 among QB's, trailing Tebow (#2) and only one position ahead of Dixon. Tebow's rushing TD's would also place him #3 in that category. Being undefeated should count for something, but, I think everyone says that undefeated against that schedule just doesn't impress people that much.

For McFadden, everyone saw his worth against LSU. It is not that he is a key to their offense, he is the entire door, lock, and key. He gets tremendous credit for being "it" on a team that rocked the #1 team in the nation.

Chase Daniel -- he got serious creds against Kansas. Now, we have a problem, he is #8 among QB's with 4 more passing TD's than Tebow, but, a 22 point lower efficiency rating. When you factor in rushing, Tebow has 838 rushing yards (Daniel 258) and 22 TD's (Daniel 3). Tebow qualifies as the #70 rusher in the nation in rushing yards. Tebow also is ranked #1 in Yds per attempt on passing.

If they consider Colt Brennan, they should consider Kevin Smith. He leads the nation in rushing for UCF -- and their schedule is nearly as weak as Hawaii's.

Just my opinion. I don't care for UF, but, I am a Tebow fan. I respect class, and as I have said, I think he has enough to spare. I also have huge respect for a kid that finished out his senior year in high school winning a state championship and playing nose guard on the final few plays to preserve the win.

[Bruce Carriker]

I guess I'm of the opinion that playing on a winner ought to count for something, too. All of their exploits...and they are considerable...have not helped Tebow's or McFadden's teams win. Daniel has been the key to Missouri's rise to the top, and he tops it off with one of the best games of his career in the biggest game of his career on national TV.

[Billie Goodson]

Note: Ballots are not turned in yet. So, Chase Daniel has saturday to impress the voters. I think many may be holding out to see what happens. If Daniel has a good game (not great, just pretty good -- complete 60% of passes, 2+ TD's, no more than 1 INT) and they win, I think he wins the award. He had a good game last time they played, but, the 2 INT's stand out to voters, and they lost.

In previous game he was 37-47, 361 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT's. Very good stats, but, they lost and people see 2 INT's.

Tebow had three not so good games. He was injured in at least 1 of those, but, his numbers are phenomenal. Only 20/20 player ever...that speaks a lot. I think if it was only his passing, he would not be considered. It is the dual threat nature that astounds people.

Bruce, I would disagree with your last statement. Tebow and McFadden have helped their teams win. Take McFadden off the field, LSU is #1 this week. Missouri not #1, would Chase Daniel be this close? Tebow accounted for 50+ TD's, he singlehandedly almost tops the total for the entire Missouri team. Missouri has 58 TD's from the offense (passing and rushing), Tebow has 51.

I hope Daniel has a decent game, it will make the voting so interesting.

[Ryan Scott]

Ballots can be turned in anytime after October 15th, I think. I don't know how many are still outstanding, but Daniels has played well in every game this year. I suspect he'll get a few votes this week when they thrash Oklahoma.

[Bruce Carriker]

Tebow had three not so good games. He was injured in at least 1 of those, but, his numbers are phenomenal. Only 20/20 player ever...that speaks a lot. I think if it was only his passing, he would not be considered. It is the dual threat nature that astounds people.

But how much of this is because Tebow is an inherently superior player, and how much is an illusion, created by how Florida uses Tebow? Chase Daniel is a very good runner when called upon. His stats are not what Tebow's are for several reasons:

1. He ISN'T as good a runner as Tebow; (please note that this is at the top of my list)
2. Most of his runs come when a pass play breaks down;
3. Sacks are counted against rushing stats in college football;
4. Tony Temple

If Mizzou used Daniel the way Florida uses Tebow, he would not produce identical results, but he would probably rush for over 500 yards and have a dozen touchdowns.

Missouri has played a credible schedule this year; not as tough as Florida's, but some of that difference is the annual over-hype of the SEC. Missouri is the only team from a BCS conference to score at least thirty points in every game. That's SCORE, NOT AVERAGE...SCORE. Four plus touchdowns every Saturday. Tebow's team has put up a little over 5500 hundred yards in total offense this year; Daniel's team, almost 6100. That's a BIG difference. That's five more first downs per game.

I've already said I don't think Daniel will win. The Florida hype, the media's SEC lovefest, and the 20-20 "only one to do it" stuff will all win out over the fact that Daniel has CONSISTENTLY played at an extremely high level all year long; is the most important player on a team that is one win from the BCS championship game; and had one of his best games ever in his biggest game ever.

Bruce, I would disagree with your last statement. Tebow and McFadden have helped their teams win. Take McFadden off the field, LSU is #1 this week. Missouri not #1, would Chase Daniel be this close? Tebow accounted for 50+ TD's, he singlehandedly almost tops the total for the entire Missouri team. Missouri has 58 TD's from the offense (passing and rushing), Tebow has 51.

Take Chase Daniel away from Missouri and it would not matter to anyone in the state of Missouri what Danny McFadden did last week because Missouri would be 6-6 or something along those lines.

When I said that Tebow, McFadden had done nothing to help their teams win, I meant that they had not positioned their team for a shot to win the only game that matters. He has one game to go, but Daniel has been more successful at that than either of the others.

As for Tebow's offensive accomplishments, I have already addressed those. If Chase Daniel played for Florida and Tim Tebow played for Missouri, their numbers would be reversed. It's not Chase Daniel's fault that Missouri has more weapons and he doesn't get to lead his team in rushing.

Tebow has accounted for 3,960 yards of total offense. Daniel has accounted for 4200. Again, is it Daniel's fault that when Missouri gets close to the goal line they hand the ball to Tony Temple or Jimmy Jackson, while Florida calls keeper plays for Tebow?


I hope Daniel has a decent game, it will make the voting so interesting.

As much as I'm in Daniel's corner, I don't think the voting will even be close.

[Steven Kochersperger]

I still think that the Heisman is kinda a joke. It should go to the best player in college football, not just the best player on a team that has done well. This is just my opinion. With that being said, I am not even sure I know who that is.

[Billie Goodson]

Bruce,

I think if Chase Daniel has a monster game on Saturday and they win (maybe monster and they even lose on some stupid fluke) all outstanding ballots will be marked for him. I think this season is that weird, and he gets the stage alone this week. All eyes will be focused on him, if not during the game, at least at the stat line level. If they lose and he has a bad game, then everyone says it is what they thought would happen, and he suffers unfairly in some regards.

Like I said, I am a huge Tebow fan, and hate UF -- so what does that say about me? As I have said before, I usually have these dichotomies in my thinking. You have brought out some great points, we may have even on this thread put more thought into the whole process than some voters will when they complete their ballots. I am a fan of the competition. I like that there are three guys people think are legitimate.

[Bruce Carriker]

I still think that the Heisman is kinda a joke. It should go to the best player in college football, not just the best player on a team that has done well. This is just my opinion. With that being said, I am not even sure I know who that is.

I would probably agree with you, Steve. I'm not sure it's Daniel. I just think of the three names we keep hearing, he's the more deserving. But the best player in the country may well be that freshman wide receiver, Crabtree, from Texas Tech.

Can you imagine? 125 receptions? Even if Tech was playing 11 against 10 on every play, it's tough to imagine a guy being open that much...or being able to make that many tough catches in coverage.

[Ryan Scott]

I still think that the Heisman is kinda a joke. It should go to the best player in college football, not just the best player on a team that has done well. This is just my opinion. With that being said, I am not even sure I know who that is.

If that was true, it would probably go to a defensive player 2 out of every 3 years.

[Jim Franklin]

When will there be another Leon Hart?

[Billie Goodson]

Most likely never Jim. Linemen don't get that kind of recognition. Hugh Green did well (second) back in the 80's, but, no way I think it happens today.

[Billie Goodson]

Invitation out:

Tebow, McFadden, Brennan and Daniel.

I am going to go with:

1. Tebow
2. McFadden
3. Daniel
4. Brennan
6-7 Kevin Smith

[Ryan Scott]

How did a guy run for nearly 2500 yards and I not even know his name until this morning?

It used to be a big deal when someone got over 2,000. Two RBs did it this year. Granted they have at least one extra game over the guys who did it in the past, but still, that's impressive.

Can they take back Rashaan Salaam's Heisman and give it to someone else? The only reason he won the award was because he cracked the 2,000 mark.

[Bruce Carriker]

From a 2006 article on Salaam:

These days, Rashaan Salaam promotes martial-arts fights staged in China. Salaam, a former first-round draft pick, blames a 16-day holdout as a rookie for marring his all-too-brief career with the Chicago Bears from 1995-97.

Saying he believes that life begins at 30, Salaam, a former marijuana user, proudly revealed he had "stopped smoking weed." In addition, he has accepted responsibility for his part in a disappointing pro football career that included unsuccessful comeback attempts with the Oakland Raiders and San Francisco 49ers, the XFL and the CFL.

"The older you get, you look at the good things and bad things in life a little differently," Salaam said. "I would have loved to have gained 10,000 yards, be in the playoffs and beat Green Bay, but it didn't happen." Salaam admitted that he occasionally looks back with regret. "Sometimes when I think about the holdout and how things went with the Bears, it still hurts."