Drury's (and Indiana Wesleyan University's) Response to Barna'a Book

[Pete Vecchi]

Here's a link:

http://www.drurywriting.com/keith/revolution.barna.htm

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Here's a link:
http://www.drurywriting.com/keith/revolution.barna.htm

An interesting read Pete, thanks for pointing it out.

[Bruce Carriker]

I have not read the book reviewed, but when Drury writes, "this book is a critique (make that a full-body slam) of the church’s inability to impact the American culture in a positive (i.e., redemptive) manner", my first reaction was to jump up and shout, "AMEN! Finally someone not afraid to speak the truth!"

But I can't do that if Barna's conclusion is that the church is hopeless and in order to follow the true faith, we must leave the church. I think the church in America is the lukewarm church of Laodicea, useful for little and fit only to be vomitted out of Jesus' mouth. But it is still the only church we have, and God's people are called to be in the church.

The church in America is in serious need of reformation, but no great reformer ever willingly left the church. And even after being forced out of the established church, they immediately joined together as bodies of believers and carried on as the church.

I like Barna. He has had much good to say to the church over the years. He's out of bounds with this one.

[Pete Vecchi]

The church in America is in serious need of reformation, but no great reformer ever willingly left the church. And even after being forced out of the established church, they immediately joined together as bodies of believers and carried on as the church.

Then perhaps Drury's other writing this week would also be a good discussion topic:

http://www.drurywriting.com/keith/reinventing.denomination.htm

[William Hunter]

My DS gave a copy of this book to each pastor as a Christmas gift. I have read it and fully agree with Drury on this. I have already written my DS about the contridictions in the book where Barna contridicts himself, about his very poor exegesis/or lack of it, etc. Barna's secular education is painfully evident and the fact that he has no theological eduction. His view of the church will end up in the same place as the "God is dead" theory. Over the centuries whole nations have tried to stamp out the church, etc., predict its demise, and on and on, but it is still here. For those who criticize the church so, even here on NN, I wonder what they are doing to make the church filled with the passion and mission of Jesus Christ. I suspect not much other than their criticizing. I have criticised some of our methods, but never the church. It is God's creation and is going nowhere until He sends Christ back to get it.

This book of Barna's shows a glaring weakness in his theology, Biblical background, ecclesiology, and an inability to read the trends in his own research. I would much rather read Thom Rainer and his team as they research than Barna. Barna is so weak theologically that I do not waste much time with his stuff. I read some but not much of his stuff. There are better trained people out there good research who do not pull some verses out of context and try "proof-texting," which is always weak at best.

[Pete Vecchi]

My DS gave a copy of this book to each pastor as a Christmas gift. I have read it and fully agree with Drury on this.

Is the implication with this gift that District churches should follow Barna's lead?

[William Hunter]

Is the implication with this gift that District churches should follow Barna's lead?

No, my DS tries to get the pastoral team here to think and defend and react to things in our culture today in hopes that we will be more effective in the misison of Christ. Sometimes he challenges to read those things that are obviously unsound Biblically, but things that we will have to deal with.

He did say that one of Barna's team was at a DS's conf. Apparently, this guy from Barna's team tried to head off any objection to the book's content by incorrectly using Scripture to head off disagreement. I wonder if Barna and his team knew they what they wrote was soundly theologically, spiritually, etc. weak and they are more about selling material than being Biblically sound and correct. This presentation of from Barna really turns me off from reading his stuff. There are too many other sound researchers out there to read.

[Ron Davis]

I have read the book and don't disagree with Drury or anyone else's evaluation. However the central point of the book for me was the dissatisfaction by many with the ability of the church to do much at all. I guess I relate to this because quite often over the last few years I have felt like I could help people more working outside of the church than I could have from within. I still feel that frustration.

I haven't gone down Barna's path for one reason. Becoming a Lone Ranger is dangerous. Accountability is important to avoid excesses like Jimmy Swaggart or Jim Bakker. On top of that I still believe the church is the God ordained organization that is to carry out His mission.

So rather than challenging Barna's theology what do we do to fix the issue he is addressing. One of his statements I agreed with and one that applies far beyond his application is that we don't have to like what's happening but we do have to deal with it.

Drury's other article this week is intriguing but what can we do with it?

[Richard Wise]

I thought the concluding paragraph of the review was expecially interesting.
"This is a dangerous book scripturally, theologically and practically—which is why it may be a popular book. Encouraging our people to buy it would be like promoting a book that celebrated pre-marital sex and extra-marital affairs as the wave of the future. People do not need encouragement toward such behaviors. What this book promotes if far more serious than pre-marital or extra-marital sex: it is a dangerous book."

I have not finished reading the book - but I will - and I will keep this review in mind as i read it.

[William Hunter]

I thought the concluding paragraph of the review was expecially interesting.
"This is a dangerous book scripturally, theologically and practically—which is why it may be a popular book. Encouraging our people to buy it would be like promoting a book that celebrated pre-marital sex and extra-marital affairs as the wave of the future. People do not need encouragement toward such behaviors. What this book promotes if far more serious than pre-marital or extra-marital sex: it is a dangerous book."

I have not finished reading the book - but I will - and I will keep this review in mind as i read it.

I sent a copy of Keith Drury's article to my DS and today he forwarded it to all the pastors on our district. It will be interesting to see if he gets any feedback from comparing the two.

[Pete Vecchi]

I sent a copy of Keith Drury's article to my DS and today he forwarded it to all the pastors on our district. It will be interesting to see if he gets any feedback from comparing the two.


Good for you! I'm glad you took the initiative to do that!