Sermon on the Mount

[Jim Monck]

Why do we call the Sermon on the Mount the greatest sermon ever preached? To be honest it is rather hard to understand. What is literal and what is figuretive?

[Hans Deventer]

Cutting off your hand is figurative. Being as merciful (perfect) as our Father in heaven is literal. As is the idea that we won't be forgiven ourselves, unless we forgive others.

[Hans Deventer]

Why do we call the Sermon on the Mount the greatest sermon ever preached?

I forgot to reply to your first question! I'm sorry.

I would say this is indeed the greatest sermon ever preached because first of all, it is God Himself preaching it, and secondly, it is basically an exposition of the two great commandments. It unmasks human attempts to fulfil these in our own strength, and teaches us instead to build our lives on God instead of anything else.

Some thoughts!

[Eric Frey]

I see it as the Jesus fulfilling the Law. How do we make heads or tails of all the Law? How do we interpret scripture? What does it mean to be Christlike? Just read the Sermon on the Mount

[Jim Monck]

I see it as the Jesus fulfilling the Law. How do we make heads or tails of all the Law? How do we interpret scripture? What does it mean to be Christlike? Just read the Sermon on the Mount

I agree Eric. That is why when a guy stole our television recently I helped him carry the vcr and disk player to the car too. Seriously, that is what the heart of my question was about. How do we interpret some parts? Read what other people think it means? Go with the parts we think will work?

Read 5:36-37 Should the new president not take the oath of office but rather just say "yes" or "no"?
6:3-4 Should I not declare my giving on my tax form?

Maybe you have a real point; maybe we should just read it and not try to preach on it. Maybe when we preach it we sound a little like the commentators who tell us what someone just said and Jesus is thinking, "Did I really say that?"

[Billy Cox]

Because it takes less than 20 minutes to read the whole thing out loud??

[Jim Monck]

I forgot to reply to your first question! I'm sorry.

I would say this is indeed the greatest sermon ever preached because first of all, it is God Himself preaching it, and secondly, it is basically an exposition of the two great commandments. It unmasks human attempts to fulfil these in our own strength, and teaches us instead to build our lives on God instead of anything else.

Some thoughts!

Can people be influenced by the Sermon on the Mount but not be Christians? Can they even use parts of it (the Golden Rule) and do a lot of good without being Christians? I know non-Christians who are more forgiving that Christians, more generous, etc. Does God help them do what is right or are they on their own?

You may think I'm just picking at you, but if you read the new book, UNCHRISTIAN, by the Barna group they are at the heart of many people's rejection of Christians and Christianity.

Does heart holiness lead me to see the good in other people as well as their need?

[Billy Cox]

I like Peter's day of Pentecost sermon better.

[Hans Deventer]

Can people be influenced by the Sermon on the Mount but not be Christians?

Yes. Simple question. Perhaps more interesting one: can you be a Christian and not be influenced by the Sermon on the Mount? For instance, when you refuse to forgive?

Can they even use parts of it (the Golden Rule) and do a lot of good without being Christians?

Yes.

I know non-Christians who are more forgiving that Christians, more generous, etc. Does God help them do what is right or are they on their own?

I mentioned prevenient grace?

You may think I'm just picking at you,

That's correct.

but if you read the new book, UNCHRISTIAN, by the Barna group they are at the heart of many people's rejection of Christians and Christianity.

Does heart holiness lead me to see the good in other people as well as their need?

Yes.

[Ian Gentles]

I think it is a sermone we actualy prefer to ignore, or explain away!

[Jim Monck]

Hans: Why do you feel I'm picking on you. This is a public forum so although people are quoted for a reference point I would think the questions and discussion are really an open dialog between everyone taking part.

I don't think on another forum you gave a very good answer about eradication and entire. If a glass is entirely full of something then it is empty of everything else. That is my struggle with the word entire for it is clear that although we are surrendered to God many times we still have other things remaining. Let me give a personal example. I long for discussion, even a good arguement about meaningful things, but when people misunderstand my motive I pull away. There are times when that may be good but also times when it may be a weakness of character.

Usually something said raises new questions in my mind, a thread that runs through discussions on more than one forum. Maybe I should only take part in one discussion at a time.

When you said you do not preach more than 15 minutes I wanted to ask you what the rest of your service looks like but there I go again.

[Ray Brock]

The Sermon on the Mount is in a Jewish book and preached to Jews. Peters sermon was also given to Jews. They did not know anything about the coming Church which the Apostle Paul revealed to the Jews and the Gentiles. When the Jews rejected their Messiah at the preaching of Steven thats when God raised up Paul on the road to Damascus to become the Apostle to the Gentiles not the 12 Apostles to the Jews. Peter and the other eleven preached the Kingdom of God message, which was the same message John the Baptist preached to the Jew only. Jesus himself told the 12 not to go to the Gentiles as they were known as dogs because of idol worship which is still rampant today with Gentiles. The message Paul gives, which is hated by most Theologians, is the way to salvation in the age of Grace, not the Law. In the dispensation of Grace the Law was done away with. The Law was only given to show people they were sinners, God knew no one could keep them. Their are 613 Laws not just 10. It is very simple to understand and clears up all questions if you - Rightly Divide the Word of God. Our message is not the Kingdom of God message given by the 12 Apostles but rather the Kingdom of Heaven message given to Paul. Why do you think when Jesus was preaching he was accused of breaking the Law by the Pharasees. Its because he was under the Law until he fulfilled the Law by his Death, Burial and most important his Resurection.

[Jim Monck]

The Sermon on the Mount is in a Jewish book and preached to Jews. Peters sermon was also given to Jews. They did not know anything about the coming Church which the Apostle Paul revealed to the Jews and the Gentiles. When the Jews rejected their Messiah at the preaching of Steven thats when God raised up Paul on the road to Damascus to become the Apostle to the Gentiles not the 12 Apostles to the Jews. Peter and the other eleven preached the Kingdom of God message, which was the same message John the Baptist preached to the Jew only. Jesus himself told the 12 not to go to the Gentiles as they were known as dogs because of idol worship which is still rampant today with Gentiles. The message Paul gives, which is hated by most Theologians, is the way to salvation in the age of Grace, not the Law. In the dispensation of Grace the Law was done away with. The Law was only given to show people they were sinners, God knew no one could keep them. Their are 613 Laws not just 10. It is very simple to understand and clears up all questions if you - Rightly Divide the Word of God. Our message is not the Kingdom of God message given by the 12 Apostles but rather the Kingdom of Heaven message given to Paul. Why do you think when Jesus was preaching he was accused of breaking the Law by the Pharasees. Its because he was under the Law until he fulfilled the Law by his Death, Burial and most important his Resurection.

Good points but is there a danger we can also get stuck on Paul and his culture.

Women take off your hats when you come to church and speak up.

(Seriously, I sat in church behind a lady a few weeks ago who every time that some one prayed she put a shal over her head.) Sorry I most likely didn't spell "shal" right. She was a rather young lady.

[Ray Brock]

I personally cannot get stuck on the culture of Paul. Paul was an extremely learned man as he was a member of the Sanhendren. To be a member of this elite group you had too be well versed in the Laws. His education goes far beyond most people today. He was a Jew and was killing Christians, Jews and Gentiles, who were being converted by the 12 Apostles into the Kingdom message. He thought he was doing God a favor by getting rid of them. This is why when he was converted by Jesus Christ himself the people were afraid of him as they only knew him as the killer of Christians. Paul received all his teachings, not from man, but from our Lord and Savior. He was taught by Jesus 3 years before he started his ministry. All through his writtings he address himself as the Apostle to the Gentiles and received all his revelations from Jesus. Paul was a Jew and was a Jew until the day he was martyred. We, as Gentiles, do not have the same Culture as Jews. The only way we are in association with them is through the salvation of our Lord. Their is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile for salvation during this dispensation of Grace.

[Hans Deventer]

Hans: Why do you feel I'm picking on you. This is a public forum so although people are quoted for a reference point I would think the questions and discussion are really an open dialog between everyone taking part.

Sure. But as I wrote elsewhere, it kind of feels like you're running all over the place shooting me from any direction in the discussion on the other forum. It FEELS that way to me! That's what I'm communicating.

I don't think on another forum you gave a very good answer about eradication and entire.

Then you should say so on the other forum :M) I'll try to reply there. Anyway, I actually thought it was pretty good. I've done worse

When you said you do not preach more than 15 minutes I wanted to ask you what the rest of your service looks like but there I go again.

Well, we have worship leaders who determine a lot of that, but I'm a strong believer in "less is more". Preaching short sermons comes from 50 years (ok, a little less) of experience on the other side of the pulpit, endlessly waiting for most preachers to finally say what they wanted to say. And from the fact that I simply don't have anything more to say at such a moment! I enter the pulpit with one message in my mind. That's what I'm trying to convey. By sticking to it, I hope it comes through.

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

Hans, Dwayne doesn't preach long sermons. He is not a minister who uhs, ahs and stutters around, and repeats, and repeats, and repeats himself--if you know what I mean. I may have posted this before:
When, Dwayne finally answered the call to preach, back then, they would put you to preaching. Before he went away to school, he was preaching at a zone rally, back when lots of people attended them. It was in a good size auditorium, and they had a balcony, it seems to me-in Elizbethton, Tennessee. He preached about "surely goodness and mercy will follow me," etc. He grabbed the hand of the pastor on the front row, and said, "Come on Bro. Liner." He kept preaching and saying things about what would go before you, and what would follow you, and finally had a few men gathered up behind him, and they were marching around that big church. ha ha. I think he may have grown up, hearing strong evangelistic type ministers. When he got back to where the pastor had been sitting, he sat down and turned the service over to him. By then, the people were shouting and Praising the Lord." On the way home , I asked why he stopped-that the people were shouting. He said, I am going to learn to stop when I am ahead." And, he does. He loves fun, but if someone ask him a question, and are not just goofing off, he waits quietly, until you think he is not going to answer. When he thinks it through, he answers you with a very intellingent and knowing answer. All of the Hood sons are extremely intelligent like their father.

Dwayne does not try to be dramatic like he was that night. After he finished school, I told him I liked his preaching better before, But he really became a very good preacher and pastor. Last Sunday, in Arkansas, he delivered the most beautiful Christmas message, I had ever remembered hearing in my life.

[Hans Deventer]

Hans, Dwayne doesn't preach long sermons. He is not a minister who uhs, ahs and stutters around, and repeats, and repeats, and repeats himself--if you know what I mean.

Yes, you have told me this. But he shouldn't feel offended, I never heard him preach so he certainly isn't included in my experience.

And I have to add, there were some who could continue for hours for all I care, but they were few.

[Ian Gentles]

They say Dr M-L Jones could go for fifty minets and folks didnt know the time had past. Only a few have that gift, I sure dont!

[Gina Stevenson]

And I have to add, there were some who could continue for hours for all I care, but they were few.

Yes, agreed ... very few. 'Twas a rare occasion when someone would wrap up their sermon, walk away from the pulpit, and have me thinking, "But he just started!" Very, very, very rare. :cool:

Must hasten to add, however, that---not getting to Sunday am in a long time (transpo problems, so survived on small groups, English class volunteering)---I did appreciate our pastor's creativity when I did get there. He's cool! [are you lurking, Pastor Joe?] ;)

Bob Evans could verify my findings, too, I'm sure.

Oops! Forgot to mention that I should be able to begin getting there again soon, too [unless this "winter wimp weather" keeps me from it sometimes], as I finally have a vehicle from someone who'll a "stand-behind-it" sort of guy. '98 Windstar, which even has my inflatable lumbar support that I'd been wishing I could take with me from the old Bronco II ['86] that I had, as it seemed very helpful. How about that? ;) Just talked to him this morning, and he said he wanted to fix the bit of rocker panel rust noticed last week this next Monday-Tuesday, and then (once his body guy gets back in town from a prolonged Christmasing session up north) fix the paint-recall deal on the roof/top side that the previous owner didn't get it back in for (now too late to do under recall).

So, it's a navy blue Windstar, '98, Traction Control (tried this on a curve faster than this kid usually drives, since it was dry when I first tried it), rear A/C-heat (some have just front), electric windows/mirrors, temp (like I need to know other than that it's miserably cold! HA!), etc. Feels solid on the road, unlike some I've tried ... it just "felt comfortable" the first time I drove it, as few had. Seems a vehicle should feel like that, too, just as a good pair of shoes ... none of this "well, we'll get used to it/them ... we'll get it/them broken in eventually." So, think this was supposed to be mine. It felt like I'd been driving it for a long time already the first time I drove it. So, guess it's another Ford, tho' I did really like my Chrysler Volare' & Laser when I had them. The Bronco had sort of made me want to go back, tho' it did make it here & was 20 yrs old when I finally let it go. So, maybe this '98 has another 10-12 years in it, too, eh?

[Marsha Lynn]

Why do we call the Sermon on the Mount the greatest sermon ever preached? To be honest it is rather hard to understand. What is literal and what is figurative?

Hi, Jim. I have a book on literary criticism by C. S. Lewis where he suggests that perhaps the best way to evaluate literature is to look at who reads it and how rather than analyzing its content. A book that is typically read by people who will stand in front of a bookshelf for 20 minutes trying to figure out whether they have already read that book or not is much different than a book that is loved by many and read over and over. Of course, the entire Bible falls into the latter category, but perhaps the Sermon on the Mount stands out in particular for rewarding those who revisit it with fresh challenge and insight.

I once sat in a Bible study where the beatitudes were fit into a rather simplistic spiritual journey:

"Blessed are the poor in spirit..." (the people who need to be saved)
"Blessed are they that mourn ..." (those who realize their unsaved state)
"Blessed are the meek ..." (those who humble themselves before God and ask for forgiveness)
... and so on.

I said, "Wait a minute! So once we're saved, those first beatitudes no longer have anything to say to us?" A vote was promptly taken among the foremost authorities of the group who agreed together that this was the standard interpretation by even higher authorities and that it would be stepping outside the 'official' interpretation by Bible scholars to think anything different.

I was glad I had already resigned myself to being a heretic so I could cast off this 'orthodoxy' and continue to mine ALL of the beatitudes (and the rest of the Sermon on the Mount) for fresh personal application. I have yet to discover all of the possible applications from even the least memorable parts, let alone the Beatitudes!

Marsha

[Gordon Greene]

I know someone who was a young atheist who had been challenged to read the book of Matthew. Offended, he set out to do just that. Thru four chapters it was a dumb book that only reinforced the atheist's conviction of no God. But as he began to read Matthew 5 (the beatitudes) GOD mightily came and he who had been an atheist knew GOD was real.

Now not being raised in church he hungrily devoured the New Testament twice in less than a month. And he believed what he read, that GOD actually meant what He said. He eventually wound up in a Nazarene church. I know for I was that young man.

The beauty of the Sermon on the Mount was the introduction of GOD is our Father. Count the number of times father appears. Jesus was building a bridge that made GOD accesible to people. Unlike the Pharisees who built walls and made it almost impossible except for the best of the best to know GOD. What a revolutionary teaching. Not only was He accesible but wanted to have a personal relationship with us.

Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see GOD. A pure heart can see GOD working in the most dismal of cirumstances or hopeless of people. A pure heart looks past fault and sees need, beyond hurtful words and seeks peace, takes its' eyes of itself and sees GOD.

Love your enemies.

L etting

O thers

V alue (validate)

E motions

Love lays down its rights. Love can only do this because of the incredible strength it possesses. Love sees beyond the obvious because it cares. Love knows who the true enemy is.

The secret place of prayer. Intimacy with GOD. Not for show or impression but out of passion for the One you love.

Seek first the kingdom of GOD and His righteousness and the rest will take care of itself.

Seek first. What would happen to a person who actually did this? Whose priority in life was to seek GOD. Almost without fail this is a trademark of those who have the greatest influences in our spiritual journey.

Cutting off your right hand and plucking out your right eye. Does GOD desire a church full of lefties and cyclops? Or perhaps he desires repentance. Spend less time making money and more being a parent. Less time being right and more time righting wrongs done to others. Quit fighting temptation and put a filter on your computer. Be content with what GOD has given you and not envious of what He has given your neighbor. We all have secret faults and presumptous sins to deal with. Deal with it.

But it is too simple. Yes, it is. What GOD desires and requires of us is far simpler than what we add to it. Understand the Sermon on the Mount and you will know the heart and mind of GOD.

Essentially, the Sermon on the Mount is the original manual of the church of the Nazarene (Jesus).

.....peace.....

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

Thank you, so much, Gordon. You write beautiful poetry. You are a real blessing.
I am so glad that God did a wonderful work in your life, and Dwayne and I have been privileged to meet you--maybe again sometimes.
Next time, I want us to find a big table that we can sit around, and all of us will be able to discuss and interact in conversation together. In Lamberts it was harder to talk with one another. But, I have enjoyed getting better acquainted with the Bouldreys. They came to our campmeeting for a couple of services one summer, and we had some more time together.
Gina and I have gotten better acquainted, by email and telephone. Maybe, we will have the opportunity to fellowship with you again sometimes.
You are indeed a blessing.

[Gina Stevenson]

What Anne said, Gordon. ;)

You've a way with words, and a sweet spirit that matches it.
Your poetry has been a blessing many times.