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Marsha Lynn
27th December 2007, 11:50 AM (11:50)
Anyone interested in another discussion of the adult Sunday School lessons?

Dave McClung
27th December 2007, 11:59 AM (11:59)
Anyone interested in another discussion of the adult Sunday School lessons?

Under ordinary circumstances, I would be; however, I am off for a few weeks. I will let the person who substitutes for me know of your interest to see if she would like ot join in the discussion.

Have you been finding the Master Toolkit helpful? I used the Power Point Outline for a number of weeks, until my class was moved. I no longer have a wall close enough to use as a screen.

Last week, I used the news coverage from the Archbishop of Canterbury to introduce the lesson. It was a good discussion stimulator.

Marsha Lynn
27th December 2007, 12:44 PM (12:44)
In the Illustrated Bible Life commentary for this lesson, Jirair Tashjian moves back to the section on non-retaliation and comments: "This is not the same as being a doormat. Nor is it that enemies are made into friends by 'killing them with kindness.' It is, rather, peaceful resistance. It puts enemies into the awkward situation of having to face kindness when retaliation was expected."

I like the last line. And I've heard the first line all of my life. However, I have yet to accept it as an obvious truth.

We all know or know of people who are too beaten down to defend themselves -- victims of various forms of abuse. We can't reconcile the picture those people give us with Jesus' promise of abundant life. It would be cruel to tell victims of abuse the Jesus wants them to accept whatever evil comes their way without taking any steps to stop it.

But what about people who are NOT beaten down, who are fully confident of their status as beloved children of God? How does it look different to walk that second mile, not in hopes of appeasing the abuser or stopping the abuse, but simply as a gift to the abuser who can't touch one's soul? When we say that Christians aren't called to be doormats do we end up guarding our right to give no more than that first mile rather than going the second? What if we focused more on doing the second mile and less on avoiding the doormat label?

Just wondering. This really isn't the focus of the lesson and I'm not sure we'll get into it, but I tend to react to "don't be a doormat" statements in regard to Matthew 5:38-42 because they often serve as escape clauses from obeying those particular teachings of Jesus.

Marsha

Edited to add: More comments on this here: 21st Century Nazarene Sunday School: Second-Mile living - 12/30/07 (http://ocnya.blogspot.com/2007/12/second-mile-living-123007.html)

Marsha Lynn
27th December 2007, 12:59 PM (12:59)
Have you been finding the Master Toolkit helpful? I used the Power Point Outline for a number of weeks, until my class was moved. I no longer have a wall close enough to use as a screen.

Yes, I have come to depend on the website. I teach from printed notes and have no interest in PowerPoint for my small class, but I start my notes by copying the session outline into my word processor. Then I delete the questions I'm not going to use (such as the "what did we just read in the scripture" questions) and rearrange the rest to fit my own style of teaching. I usually end up doing all that early on Sunday morning and if either the internet or my printer fails during that time, panic quickly sets in as I contemplate the idea of trying to type everything in myself or teach without notes.

For a while, I consistently struggled to get my notes off the printer, into my pile of things to take to church, to the church, and still locatable when it was time to teach. After being laughed at enough times while searching for them and even having to teach without them a couple of times, I finally put a paper clip on the correct page in the teacher's book and make it a point to fasten them there and not move them. :basic03

One thing I've never been able to find is the promised full-color scripture posters. Are those part of the Power Point slides?

Marsha

Mike McVey
27th December 2007, 05:05 PM (17:05)
In the Illustrated Bible Life commentary for this lesson, Jirair Tashjian moves back to the section on non-retaliation and comments: "This is not the same as being a doormat. Nor is it that enemies are made into friends by 'killing them with kindness.' It is, rather, peaceful resistance. It puts enemies into the awkward situation of having to face kindness when retaliation was expected."

I like the last line. And I've heard the first line all of my life. However, I have yet to accept it as an obvious truth.

Our church does not do Word Action currently so I don't know the lesson. I have no idea what the commentary says or doesn't say. But I do know Dr. Tashjian having studied under him for several years.

The culture of 1st Century Palestine is based on honor/shame. The mile walking, cloak giving, and turning the other cheek has more to do with shaming the abuser than anything else. By walking an extra mile, you are shaming the Roman guard of abusing Jews because he can. Roman law required that guards could ask no more than one mile out of a Jew. It was a way of exerting superiority over these people. By walking an extra mile, you are shaming the guard because he can be seriously reprimanded if you take even a step over a mile. If someone sues you for your cloak and you give your undergarment as well you are showing the evil in the one filing the suit. This one would be relevant today - can you imagine someone being sued for more than they had and they respond by taking their clothes off in court? Turning the other cheek has many defilement issues and it forces a Roman guard to either use their dirty hand (for wiping) which leads to reprimand, or using an open hand slap which also leads to reprimand. Being reprimanded is seen as shameful. The only response is to walk away and the one who was hit has won honor and dignity.

I'm not sure if this helps, but I hope it does.

Marsha Lynn
27th December 2007, 08:07 PM (20:07)
Our church does not do Word Action currently so I don't know the lesson. I have no idea what the commentary says or doesn't say. But I do know Dr. Tashjian having studied under him for several years.

I credited Dr. Tashjian with the quote but the idea certainly doesn't originate with him. I have much respect for him as a scholar. I just happen to be bothered by this one popular position.

The culture of 1st Century Palestine is based on honor/shame. The mile walking, cloak giving, and turning the other cheek has more to do with shaming the abuser than anything else. By walking an extra mile, you are shaming the Roman guard of abusing Jews because he can. Roman law required that guards could ask no more than one mile out of a Jew. It was a way of exerting superiority over these people. By walking an extra mile, you are shaming the guard because he can be seriously reprimanded if you take even a step over a mile. If someone sues you for your cloak and you give your undergarment as well you are showing the evil in the one filing the suit. This one would be relevant today - can you imagine someone being sued for more than they had and they respond by taking their clothes off in court? Turning the other cheek has many defilement issues and it forces a Roman guard to either use their dirty hand (for wiping) which leads to reprimand, or using an open hand slap which also leads to reprimand. Being reprimanded is seen as shameful. The only response is to walk away and the one who was hit has won honor and dignity.

Thanks, Mike. So do you disagree that the "we don't have to be doormats" interpretation of this passage is often used to set aside the instruction entirely as impractical? Do you know many professing Christians who practice an other-cheek-turning, second-mile-going, tunic-giving lifestyle?

Marsha

Mike McVey
27th December 2007, 09:50 PM (21:50)
Thanks, Mike. So do you disagree that the "we don't have to be doormats" interpretation of this passage is often used to set aside the instruction entirely as impractical? Do you know many professing Christians who practice an other-cheek-turning, second-mile-going, tunic-giving lifestyle?

Marsha

My mind is failing me when trying to answer your first question. I do not think the instructions are impractical in concept. They would probably not fit 21st Century North American culture absolutely. I do believe there are other practices we can participate in today that take in the concept. All of the actions of this lifestyle seek to expose the injustices of the unjust system of their day. I think it is harder today because we are told how good of Christians we are through our pop-preachers. I can think of several instances, but like I said, my mind is failing me right now and I am not currently able to move them from my mind to the keyboard.

I know of a couple famous ones: Tony Campolo and Shane Claiborne. I know of a couple not-so famous ones as well. I believe there are more out there than I will ever know. There are also some who will remain famous for quite a while like Mother Theresa and St. Francis. Dr. Tashjian has walked plenty of second miles as a professor when people tried to strong arm him. Yet he is still at SNU for another 5 months until his retirement... by choice I might add.

Doug Kitchen
28th December 2007, 09:30 AM (09:30)
My mind is failing me when trying to answer your first question. I do not think the instructions are impractical in concept. They would probably not fit 21st Century North American culture absolutely. I do believe there are other practices we can participate in today that take in the concept. All of the actions of this lifestyle seek to expose the injustices of the unjust system of their day. I think it is harder today because we are told how good of Christians we are through our pop-preachers. I can think of several instances, but like I said, my mind is failing me right now and I am not currently able to move them from my mind to the keyboard.

I know of a couple famous ones: Tony Campolo and Shane Claiborne. I know of a couple not-so famous ones as well. I believe there are more out there than I will ever know. There are also some who will remain famous for quite a while like Mother Theresa and St. Francis. Dr. Tashjian has walked plenty of second miles as a professor when people tried to strong arm him. Yet he is still at SNU for another 5 months until his retirement... by choice I might add.

Thanks Mike for your summary of some of the background. I've taught this lesson to Sr High's many times as a substitute and I don't recall reading such an understandable description of this part of the culture (maybe it was in the teacher's book and I just skipped over it ;) ). Male adolescents are under continual verbal and physical assault and they need tools like this passage of scripture to deal with it. I've never felt great about my ability to teach this passage to this this age group mostly because of the "doormat" vs. "not a doormat" issue.

There was an excellent PBS series on the history of the jews and my recollection of Jesus' time was that it was extremely violent, politically divided - collaborator vs rebel. For Jesus to suggest that a Jew go the first mile was taking a clear political stand. There were many in the crowd who would have wanted Him to say kill the soldier or revolt - preemptive and aggressive self-defense. So in a sense, Jesus was saying be a doormat and assert your dignity and confront (the second mile part) those who would take that dignity away by convincing them of the truth of our cause.

Martin Luther King, Jr and Ghandi, saw this approach as a strategy to win victory. MLK had to convince his congregation (who were mostly middle class) that they should do something to change their society and not suffer indignity - to convince their enemies not by having more power but by resisting. Passive acceptance (doormat only) and violent resistance are both losing strategies.

possible personal applications:

I think most of us take personal insults far too seriously and minimize the indignities that others suffer.

We are tempted to worry about how much self-defense we are allowed rather than focusing on converting our insulter. MLK published a book of sermons called "strength to love" which I have enjoyed reading. Every once in a while I remind myself that it takes strength to love. Love isn't weakness, hatred is a weak and inadequate solution. When I start by defending myself, I have already lost the battle.

I'd be interested in more thoughts on this topic.

Marsha Lynn
28th December 2007, 10:00 AM (10:00)
I do not think the instructions are impractical in concept. They would probably not fit 21st Century North American culture absolutely. I do believe there are other practices we can participate in today that take in the concept.

Absolutely! Here's what I think it looks like:

Let's say we have a mutual friend Jane*. One day at work her supervisor calls her into his office and says, "Jane, I know you've been here longer than Joe and are interested in the position that's open in our department, but I've decided that we really need you where you are and that Joe would be more comfortable in this other position." He then goes on to explain why he chose Joe for the position. Jane responds, "Thank you for sharing this with me. I appreciate that you made the effort to explain your reasoning." And she means it.

Jane needs to run some errands on her way home from work. As she lines up her SUV in preparation for backing into a parallel parking spot, a little import whips into the spot and the driver smiles and waves as she heads off to the post office. Jane sighs and goes to look for another spot. As she starts to enter the post office, the other driver is coming out. Jane steps aside and holds the door. She smiles as she says, "Have a nice day." And she means it.

When Jane gets home, she discovers that her neighbor's dog has made a 'deposit' right next to her front step - again. When she mentions it to her husband, he says, "That's it! I'm calling the Smiths and telling them to keep their dog out of our yard!" Jane says, "No, don't call yet. I'd like us to think and pray about our response."

That evening, Jane gets alone with God. She prays about the work situation. She really wanted that position and feels like Joe got it primarily because he's a man. She looks at her options. She could file a formal complaint of discrimination, but how would that result in a positive outcome? She could be patient in her job and keep an eye out for other opportunities around her. She could maybe look at this as a nudge to start looking for a fresh start with another company. She has options.

She thinks and prays about the neighbors and their dog. Again, she sees options there. Her husband could call and complain. They could install a fence. They could find out the dog's name and simply consider it to be a friendly neighborhood dog that provides companionship for everyone, along with a little work.

As she prays about these things, more and more options come to mind. It's simply a matter of weighing the cost of each against the annoyance of what's happening.

As to the woman who took her parking place, that's not really worth worrying over. It simply gave Jane a chance to be gracious for little cost. She says a little prayer for the woman who surely must meet plenty of anger on a regular basis as she takes things that other people clearly want.

The world says, If you let it happen, people will take advantage of you. Being a Christian doesn't mean you don't need to stand up for your rights.

Faith says, I don't have to defend my rights. God's blessings are adequate for my life. I trust that those blessings will always make up for any rights I relinquish in His name.

Self-worth says, I am not a victim. I am a beloved child of God. There are no end of unexplored options at hand as I tap into the creative S/spirit God has placed within me. Insisting on being treated with fairness is never my only option and possibly never the best one.

I know of a couple famous ones: Tony Campolo and Shane Claiborne.

Hmm... we've been here before, haven't we? While these people are doing extraordinary ministry, I don't think that holiness necessarily calls us to extraordinary ministry. Holiness is primarily exemplified by meeting the ordinary challenges of ordinary days in ordinary places in extraordinarily loving ways. Dr. Tashjian is correct in saying that this does not make one a doormat. However, it's my experience that one of the primary requirements for going deeply here is to be willing to respond to negative stimuli in doormat fashion. The difference between being a doormat or not isn't in standing up for one's rights but in nurturing the inner confidence that the doormat stage is never the end of the story. Declining to file that complaint at work does not necessarily make Jane a victim and a doormat, no matter how many people tell her she needs to fight for what she wants. It can just as easily testify to her confidence that God will provide other options as she trusts Him.

In a way, though, maybe the Sermon on the Mount doesn't preach well. When Jane makes that decision to explore other options, maybe it needs to be a personal response that goes against the flow even in the church. It needs to come out of her own inner resources and faith in God rather than in response to coercion from any external source.

Dr. Tashjian has walked plenty of second miles as a professor when people tried to strong arm him. Yet he is still at SNU for another 5 months until his retirement... by choice I might add.

Thank you. That's good to hear. I was wondering how he was doing. Our paths have crossed only once in person (on my one trip to Oklahoma) but I have been influenced greatly by his writing. My quibble in this lesson is not at all with the man, only with the predominance of an attitude in Christian circles that says one must stand up for oneself.

Marsha

*Note: I do not know "Jane". Her story here is completely hypothetical.

Mike McVey
28th December 2007, 12:38 PM (12:38)
Absolutely! Here's what I think it looks like:

Let's say we have a mutual friend Jane*.

Hmmm... Jane.... okay. :) Jane's story is a nice one. And she sounds like a wise person, but I would hesitate to say that she is embodying what the passage is talking about. In fact, I would say that in her situation, she is being a doormat of not saying anything to her boss. The other two situations are kind of a whatever for me. The whole situation is too vague for me, but she should tell her boss something along the lines of, "Y'know. I disagree with you. You do what you need to do, but please do not pretend to know who would be more comfortable in the job. Maybe Joe will, maybe he won't. But I will tell you this, I am going to continue being a good employee and work hard for this company." It is only later that you mention Jane thinks Joe is hired because he is a man. Why would she think that? If the reason is valid at all, that also needs to be addressed. This doesn't mean she should file a complaint. I think that would be less effective. She should tell her boss that these are her concerns and demand that he listens to her. With these vague situations that don't show any injustice, it is harder to apply the emphasis of this scripture.

Faith says, I don't have to defend my rights. God's blessings are adequate for my life. I trust that those blessings will always make up for any rights I relinquish in His name.

Exactly.

Hmm... we've been here before, haven't we? While these people are doing extraordinary ministry, I don't think that holiness necessarily calls us to extraordinary ministry. Holiness is primarily exemplified by meeting the ordinary challenges of ordinary days in ordinary places in extraordinarily loving ways.

It can just as easily testify to her confidence that God will provide other options as she trusts Him.

Yeah we have. But I mention them because they participate in practices to expose the powers. I don't consider this extraordinary, but I understand the line of thinking. Why is holiness now thrust to the center? Is the lesson about holiness? I don't disagree with the statement, but it seems to be out of place here.

I want to be careful that God will provide other options as we trust Him kind of mentality. God provides opportunities regardless of whether we trust him. We may or may not see it more clearly if we do.

In a way, though, maybe the Sermon on the Mount doesn't preach well. When Jane makes that decision to explore other options, maybe it needs to be a personal response that goes against the flow even in the church. It needs to come out of her own inner resources and faith in God rather than in response to coercion from any external source.

This seems to be a leap from what you are saying. Why would the sermon not preach well? Which church flow are we talking about? Your last statement makes me wince a little. Too much individuality for me. The gospels were never meant to be read by individuals, they were meant to be read in communion. I'm all for personal piety, but my ears are ringing that we are talking about making an individual become consumeristic. This is not fair to you. It is probably similar to your feelings when you hear Claiborne mentioned. I'm sorry, but why do we have to spiritualize a direct saying of Jesus. Isn't the fact he said it spiritual enough?

On another blog I read/respond too, we are dealing with enemy love. There is one group of people that say loving your enemies has to soak through the very fabric of who you would be as a Christian (I usually side with this group). The other says, well Jesus would want you to protect your family. Or the Bible says it is okay to go to war and kill your enemy. But I take what Jesus says as authoritative for how to read the rest of the Bible. And if he says to enemy agape, I don't think we need to spiritualize it to make it fit our personal relationship.

*Note: I do not know "Jane". Her story here is completely hypothetical.

Whatever, Jane... I mean Marsha :p

I'm gonna work hard to give some examples before my day is done. Then it will give you ample time to show how much more merciful you are than I. :)

Mike McVey
28th December 2007, 12:42 PM (12:42)
When I start by defending myself, I have already lost the battle.

I'd be interested in more thoughts on this topic.

I think your first statement is a very good understanding of this scripture passage. But the intention is definitely important as well - bringing the injustice out in the open is not a form of defense. It is truth telling.

More later.

Marsha Lynn
28th December 2007, 12:52 PM (12:52)
Mike, we seem to be far apart here. While I appreciate your perspective, I'm not sure I can take the Sermon on the Mount as applying only to society as a whole rather than an instruction for how to live as an individual.

As to the relevance of this discussion to the SS lesson, the passage we're dealing with here isn't actually part of the lesson. The comment in the commentary was supplementary. The text for the lesson is the part about loving one's enemies.

*Note: I do not know "Jane". Her story here is completely hypothetical.

Whatever, Jane... I mean Marsha :p

I'm gonna work hard to give some examples before my day is done. Then it will give you ample time to show how much more merciful you are than I. :)

Sigh. Why do people take me seriously when I'm not and figure I'm joking when I'm not. I truly did make my scenario totally non-personal. Our dogs are the only ones that run loose in the neighborhood, which includes no close neighbors; parking isn't a problem in Odon; and I'm the "head honcho" at my job (aka library director). Which job I need to do now. I'll check back with you later.

Marsha

Mike McVey
28th December 2007, 01:02 PM (13:02)
Mike, we seem to be far apart here. While I appreciate your perspective, I'm not sure I can take the Sermon on the Mount as applying only to society as a whole rather than an instruction for how to live as an individual.

As to the relevance of this discussion to the SS lesson, the passage we're dealing with here isn't actually part of the lesson. The comment in the commentary was supplementary. The text for the lesson is the part about loving one's enemies.

And that's okay that we disagree. I think... One last thought and I will leave this alone. I agree that the Sermon is talking about how to live as an individual. But that is not the same thing as being spiritualized as an individual. Again, this is not fair to you. I'm bringing my luggage. I am tired of people saying that when Jesus said to turn the other cheek he didn't really mean it. When he said don't divorce, he didn't really mean it. When he said three simple words... "love your enemies", he didn't really mean it. I have never seen you espouse any of these claims. And I am sorry that you feel like I'm ripping into you. That is not my intention. Please accept my apology.

Sigh. Why do people take me seriously when I'm not and figure I'm joking when I'm not. I truly did make my scenario totally non-personal. Our dogs are the only ones that run loose in the neighborhood, which includes no close neighbors; parking isn't a problem in Odon; and I'm the "head honcho" at my job (aka library director). Which job I need to do now. I'll check back with you later.

Marsha

Marsha, I knew you were joking. That is how I feel I'm being playful. My wife usually substitutes annoying for playful. I know it is not you. Again, I was trying to be silly. As soon as you mentioned the promotion thing, I knew it wasn't you. My memory is very good when people tell me their life situation. I also don't picture you driving an SUV, though I could be wrong :).

Bob Evans
28th December 2007, 02:56 PM (14:56)
Recently at the mission I threw this passage out for discussion and asked them how it would work out in their lives. the responces were pretty typical that you might hear in a regular Sunday school class. But one guy stood and cronicled a long list of friends and reletives that were in jail for everything from assult to murder over conflicts that started because someone looked at them the wrong way or got in their face. He then said what is one of most profound things I ever heard about the subject. "I am banking on the fact Gods way is best because there has there has to be a better way than killing someone for looking at you the wrong way."

Marsha Lynn
28th December 2007, 11:29 PM (23:29)
And that's okay that we disagree. I think... One last thought and I will leave this alone. I agree that the Sermon is talking about how to live as an individual. But that is not the same thing as being spiritualized as an individual. Again, this is not fair to you. I'm bringing my luggage. I am tired of people saying that when Jesus said to turn the other cheek he didn't really mean it. When he said don't divorce, he didn't really mean it. When he said three simple words... "love your enemies", he didn't really mean it. I have never seen you espouse any of these claims. And I am sorry that you feel like I'm ripping into you. That is not my intention. Please accept my apology.

Hmm... it seems that we're fighting the same battle but from different directions. I, too, am weary of hearing how Jesus didn't really mean it when He said those things. That's why I react to the "don't be a doormat" statements and am in the middle of a grand experiment to see what happens if one simply does what Jesus said to do. Do people really take advantage of you if you don't stand up for your rights?

I have to confess that I don't understand what you mean when you talk about "spiritualizing" Jesus' words. In my mind, I'm simply talking about taking them seriously and trying to live one's life by the pattern presented in this passage. And, as individualistic as it may sound, I can only put it into practice in my own life. You are advising 'Jane' to stop being a doormat. My best efforts at communication aren't phasing you a bit in that regard. I can't very well tell her that God wants her to be a doormat in opposition to the advise you and others are giving her. I can't persuade you or her that Jesus intended for us to give up our rights. The best I can do is to see what happens when I manage to pull off doormat living in my own life. Maybe I'm totally off track here, but, as I mentioned in my blog entry (http://ocnya.blogspot.com/2007/12/second-mile-living-123007.html), I'm not bleeding yet. Nor am I ready to give up the experiment. It's fascinating to see how it works out in real life.

In keeping with your concern for social justice, I find that second-mile living is not primarily about me as an individual. As I apply these principles to my own life, those around me reap the benefits of having someone who responds to them in ways that don't reflect their own woundedness. When I manage to love my enemies, those enemies are then living in a world that shows them just a little more compassion and a little less anger. When I go the second mile, those people have companionship to ease their loneliness and lighten their load for just a little longer. It's still a form of social justice, but on a much smaller scale than the Mother Teresas and Shane Claibornes of the world.

(By the way, you may need to make more positive comments on my blog to counteract my book review. I'm getting people off the search engines looking for info about Shane and wish I had something more positive to offer them. :o)

Marsha, I knew you were joking.... As soon as you mentioned the promotion thing, I knew it wasn't you. My memory is very good when people tell me their life situation. I also don't picture you driving an SUV, though I could be wrong :).

Ah... you got me. I missed the direction your humor was taking. But I'm impressed by your memory. And you're absolutely right about the SUV. I mainly drive the family minivan but my favorite vehicles are little high-MPG imports.

Marsha

Marsha Lynn
12th January 2008, 01:10 PM (13:10)
I think I have finally completely overcommitted my life.

IF I had time to write about this week's lesson, I think I would choose one of two topics:

1. What it means to "bind" and "loose" on earth.

or

2. Why the Bible speaks so frequently about people being judged by their deeds, even though we know that it is grace that saves us through faith.

I don't know that either of those two topics will be major points of discussion tomorrow, but those are the ones that most intrigue me personally and tempt me to carve out time to explore my own thinking through the exercise of writing.

Marsha

Dennis Bratcher
12th January 2008, 01:17 PM (13:17)
1. What it means to "bind" and "loose" on earth.

FWIW, we have an excellent article on this by Keith Drury: http://www.crivoice.org/bindloose.html


Grace and Peace,

Dennis B.

Anne and Dwayne Hood
12th January 2008, 03:41 PM (15:41)
Dennis, the article you posted from Drury, is one of the best articles I have EVER read in my life.
We have never worked exactly like that, but quite close to it. We had different groups on Wednesday nights, and one main group was bringing in new people, that didn't ordinarily attend, because others had told them about it.
People really opened up and told about their problems, as well as their praises. Many times, they were helped by what the others had to say, about things that were bothering them, or that they did not understand. By the time, Dwayne retired, there was seldom anytone who had not been prayed for, as they sat in the prayer chair, and the others gathered around, laying on hands and praying. It was a wonderful time of worship...that I had to miss most of the time, because I had a younger group to lead.
One example would be, when a lady, came in crushed, because her daughter was pregnant. Her daughter was ashamed to attend church anymore. Sometimes, Dwayne would use annointing oil, when we prayed for some of the situations.

Dwayne felt impresssed to write the daughter a letter. Some of these young adults grew from childhood calling us Papa and Grandmother. Dwayne wanted her to know how much she would still be loved by Papa and Grandmother and all of church people.

Dwayne is no longer the pastor there, but we attend when we are not at another church for him to preach. The pastor wanted us to come back, saying that we were an asset. Eventually, he went to Dwayne wanting to know if it was OK for him to begin studies on different books of the Bible in that group on Wednesday nights. Of course it was. I once said, "You are the pastor now." He is a black man, and we dearly love him.
Last night, I attended a ladies meeting at Perkins's Restaurant. We had eight ladies there...four blacks and four white. We feel like a close family. Some could not attend. The young mother was there, still unmarried,s till living with her mother and brothers--and Demarious was with her. He turned two years old several weeks ago.
One couple that attended, had the husband's children taken away, because his little young son, tried parts of his little sister, that were "No, no." They only got to keep the child they had had together. The woman could not understand, why, we felt, we could not let her sometimes keep the nursery. If someone wanted to make something out of it, would possibly, be on TV, and innewspapers. Dwayne worked for DHS 16 years and during his first pastorate, he was over the entire county.
Last Saturday, Dwayne spoke at the funeral of the above lady's relative. It was a lady we had never known, and she nor her family were Christians either. Her dad is not a Christian, and that family loves us. Maybe, someday, they will turn to Christ.

God is so good. I feel the type of group we had for several years, helped us to grow in the Lord.

Marsha Lynn
27th January 2008, 07:50 AM (07:50)
Sunday morning and I'm scurrying to get my lesson together. This post is simply a cheat to get the scripture passage - 1 Peter 1:3-16

I'm heading out to the library to pick up a picture book before SS -- Martin's Big Words. I'm taking a graduate-level class at Indiana University where the prof read us multiple picture books this week. I figure if it will work for a 500-level college class... (Of course, the class is actually about children's literature, but still ...)

Martin's Big Words is an excellent picture book about Martin Luther King. My connection for it is this past week's MLK day (and my annual pilgrimage to the nearest "Unity Service," for which I can find no one to join me) and the vocabulary words for today -- "hope" and "holiness". The word "holiness" has such a lot of baggage for me. I'm hoping to collect up the associations that other people have with the word and maybe modify my own view of it.

Anyway, I gotta grab that scripture and run. I actually need it in KJV, the better to sing about "joy unspeakable and full of glory" and to "gird up our loins". :eek:

Have a great Sunday, everyone!

Marsha