I am sorry

[Walter Thompson]

This is my 357 post, I think.
I want to first thank Dave for this board. Nothing that I say below is directed at him. Dave is one of the best people I have met because of NazNet and I have come to love and admire him and Linda. Thank you Dave again for all the work you have put into NazNet over the years.:)
I have some things that have been bothering me for some time. I keep getting drawn back to NazNet for many reasons. However, lately I have decided maybe I needed to leave for a while. Maybe just sit on the side lines and pray for NazNet. Pray for the mionistry that is taking place and for those who tirelessly give of themselves. There are some on the board that have become like brothers and sisters. I love you and will stay in touch.
:basic04 I have come to dread seeing some threads and the comparisons that seem to keep coming to the surface on NazNet over the last year or so. The bigger the board has become it seems the more problems and dissension there is. Hateful and hurtful comments seem to be made at whim. That is not what this board is for. When statements are made like there have been over the last year or so, I wonder why I am staying around. I have noticed a lot of the old timers don't post any more. Maybe that is what I should do. Not post any more. I seldom read or post in response because we can count on someone making statements like these without considering what they are saying, or make incorrect assumptions.
Many of the polls are revealing that this is not an overwhelmingly conservative board any more. Might still lean to the conservative side but a much more liberal view of the world, society, theology and politics have steadily been increasing. Many times the Nazarene doctrine has been trampled on and individuals have been made to feel out of place and unwelcome that were part of the beginning years of this board.
So, I think I am going to sit on the sidelines for a while and see if the board swings back to it's conservativeness again.
I have been a part of NazNet for about 11 years. It has been home for me. It helped me through the darkest days of my life. Because of NazNet and a few really close friends in private conversations, I was able to go through more than most of you know about. So, without saying names, I really appreciate the hours you have spent with me on the phone, IM and e-mails. You kept me level and centered when I was having a hard time finding my bearings.
NazNet has been a place of refuge and support for hundreds of people. It hurts me to see the name calling (albeit disguised) and the drifting away from the purpose. I personally feel very intimidated to post much of the time. Even though most will not respond as an attack towards me on the boards. But the feeling is there, so I don't post very much. :basic04
I have great admiration for the leadership on this and the other forums of NazNet. I will continue to pray for Dave and Scott and Hans as they moderate NazNet. I have made many good friends and hope to continue those friendships. :)
There is still a lot of good going on. My decision is personal and I have given a lot of thought to it. I guess I am seeing what is happening in our country being reflected on the board. I feel much more comfortable being with people that are open to discussion rather than arguments. Even in life I avoid those who would rather argue a point than discover and attain understanding of both sides.
I am not angry, just disappointed.:basic04

[Ian Gentles]

First, please keep in touch with us.
Second, yes boards seems to have a lot of hurtful remarks been made.
Third, yes boards seem to be getting more liberal. We are loosing our conservative evangelicalism.

[Dave McClung]

This is my 357 post, I think.
I want to first thank Dave for this board. Nothing that I say below is directed at him. Dave is one of the best people I have met because of NazNet and I have come to love and admire him and Linda. Thank you Dave again for all the work you have put into NazNet over the years.:)
I have some things that have been bothering me for some time. I keep getting drawn back to NazNet for many reasons. However, lately I have decided maybe I needed to leave for a while. Maybe just sit on the side lines and pray for NazNet. Pray for the mionistry that is taking place and for those who tirelessly give of themselves. There are some on the board that have become like brothers and sisters. I love you and will stay in touch.
:basic04 I have come to dread seeing some threads and the comparisons that seem to keep coming to the surface on NazNet over the last year or so. The bigger the board has become it seems the more problems and dissension there is. Hateful and hurtful comments seem to be made at whim. That is not what this board is for. When statements are made like there have been over the last year or so, I wonder why I am staying around. I have noticed a lot of the old timers don't post any more. Maybe that is what I should do. Not post any more. I seldom read or post in response because we can count on someone making statements like these without considering what they are saying, or make incorrect assumptions.
Many of the polls are revealing that this is not an overwhelmingly conservative board any more. Might still lean to the conservative side but a much more liberal view of the world, society, theology and politics have steadily been increasing. Many times the Nazarene doctrine has been trampled on and individuals have been made to feel out of place and unwelcome that were part of the beginning years of this board.
So, I think I am going to sit on the sidelines for a while and see if the board swings back to it's conservativeness again.
I have been a part of NazNet for about 11 years. It has been home for me. It helped me through the darkest days of my life. Because of NazNet and a few really close friends in private conversations, I was able to go through more than most of you know about. So, without saying names, I really appreciate the hours you have spent with me on the phone, IM and e-mails. You kept me level and centered when I was having a hard time finding my bearings.
NazNet has been a place of refuge and support for hundreds of people. It hurts me to see the name calling (albeit disguised) and the drifting away from the purpose. I personally feel very intimidated to post much of the time. Even though most will not respond as an attack towards me on the boards. But the feeling is there, so I don't post very much. :basic04
I have great admiration for the leadership on this and the other forums of NazNet. I will continue to pray for Dave and Scott and Hans as they moderate NazNet. I have made many good friends and hope to continue those friendships. :)
There is still a lot of good going on. My decision is personal and I have given a lot of thought to it. I guess I am seeing what is happening in our country being reflected on the board. I feel much more comfortable being with people that are open to discussion rather than arguments. Even in life I avoid those who would rather argue a point than discover and attain understanding of both sides.
I am not angry, just disappointed.:basic04

Walt

May I suggest and alternate approach? On this board and on another that I participate on I have observed that one or two individuals tend to disrupt the fellowship. I simply put them on my "Ignore" list. I makes my participation a lot more fun.

Rather than leaving NazNet, why not just put the individuals that cause you frustraton on your "ignore" list. You will discover that you enjoy NazNet more and don't really miss anything.

[Judy Hamilton]

Walt
you offer balance and compassion as you are one
who has walked a very difficult
journey and has not allowed life to defeat you
Please consider continuing to be salt and light

Judy

[Gina Stevenson]

Well, Walter, I'll second Judy's post, tho' I know that might need to occur a bit later ... sometimes a person does need a break [but make it a short one! ;)]. I, too, found NazNet a blessing when I needed it in the worst way. Just after Danny died someone gave me a modem, someone at church told me about it and, in the middle of the night when I could not call anyone to talk to, NazNet was there to read, and at least let me post a tho't or two, even if no one answered it until hours later.

Also have met friends via NazNet, connected with others I'd not seen in years, and still enjoy it ... most of the time. It has become much larger, and there's not enough time to read everything posted, so, we've had to learn a new way of reading NazNet. We now have to pick & choose, and seem to leave several pages of unread posts everytime, unlike the old Ceilidh boards where we would avidly try to read every post. It just can't be done now, unless one makes a career out of reading NazNet.

Dave had a good idea, too ... just find that "Ignore" button. I used it once long, long ago, and then found that it still puts the first few words of a post on the board, which would entice me to click it off for a bit to read something now & then, so I've not tried it since. Anyway, try it; you may like it. ;)

NazNet has been through a lot with you, just as with me ... and a few others who might also be a bit more open than others when posting. It's a good place, basically ... a "fellowship" board. Hey! In real life "fellowship" doesn't always run 100% smoothly, since we've all got our own ideas ... altho' it is easier to not misread something in person when having the added benefit of tone of voice, facial expressions, body language, et cetera, as opposed to the sheer black-&-white [well, some of us do like to use more colorful lettering ;)] of NazNet.

Blessings on you & Donna as you continue your ministry together, and we'll see you back here one of these days soon, maybe? Vacation time from your "(NN) family" doesn't last forever, ya know! ;)

[Ken Osso]

To be honest, I'm a little shocked. Perhaps I don't read enough posts, but I have not yet seen somone attack another. Did you try to communicate with those who you felt were attacking you (either through the thread or through private contact)? If so, were they remorseful or beligerant?

As to the issue of the discussion becoming less and less conservative...one of the things I appreciate most about this site is that we can discuss our distinctive doctrine and our view of Scripture in the context of our present situation. In other words, I feel that as we discuss much of the things that we discuss, we are able to flesh out the application of our beliefs.

For instance, I have recently struggled with how to implement church membership with the proper balance of grace and truth. I searched for posts concerning membership, and I came across a very insightful discussion about the difficulty in enforcing the letter of the law when we feel it to be contrary to the Spirit of the law. I have found NazNet to be a very rich resource for open and honest dialogue, and I think this kind of dialogue is what will help us to sharpen our beliefs and generate constructive dialogue with the lost.

I hope you have not been hurt more than necessary. Rather than leave the discussion, I would hope that you would speak directly to the people who have hurt you and try to resolve this scripturally. Perhaps people are legitimately attacking others and need to be accountable, but is it also possible that you may be experiencing undue anguish because of the fact that purely textual communication can often be taken out of context? I hate to see people hurt by others, especially when someone isn't even aware of the fact that they have harmed another.

[Ken Osso]

[QUOTE=Anne and Dwayne Hood;169818]How will our younger people ever know what to avoid, in order to live a live totally dedicated to Jesus, when so much these days is lust of the flesh, in mind, body, and deed--as if what we do, see, read or hear, does not affect our thoughts, words, and actions--even in music.
QUOTE]

Anne,
I think the best way to help people discover God's standard of Holy living is to do everything we can to present them to Christ. We should pray earnestly for them, we should disciple them, and we should allow God's transforming work to take place in their hearts and minds.

One thing that I grow concerned with is when we grow fearful of where our denomination is headed and try to legislate holiness by focusing on the behaviors. Don't get me wrong; we should expose sin as sin. Jesus certainly didn't condone sinful behavior. However, we also could take a page out of his book with the woman caught in adultery...neither did Christ condemn her.

I am a huge fan of the Manual, but I cringe whenever we focus more on the behavior than we do on the Spirit. In the Covenant of Christian Conduct, there is a statement that I believe governs all of our rules: "33.3 In listing practices to be avoided we recognize that no catalog, however inclusive, can hope to encompass all forms of evil thorughout the world. Therefore it is imperative that our people earnestly seek the aid of the Spirit in cultivating a sensitivity to evil that transcends the mere letter of the law; remembering the admonition: 'Test everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil.'"

I don't think this statement excuses the paragraphs that follow. I believe we should abstain from alcohol "in loving regard for ourselves and others." I believe we should be modest. I believe we should filter our modes of entertainment.

However, there are too many times when we are so vocal about those issues that we have failed to nurture the walk of our younger and newer believers to the point where they learn for themselves to live a life led by God's Spirit.

I don't say any of this to correct or rebuke you, but to offer you hope. When we bring people into the life-changing presence of God's Spirit, change will happen. When we don't see change happening, we can release the burden of trying to change their behavior and receive a burden of prayer for them. After all, we can't expect people who have not yet discovered life in the Spirit to live by a standard that is foreign to them.

[Terri Knoll]

I understand, I think, but I wish you would take Daves advice. I personally get excited when I see your name and have to read what you have to say. You are so much fun and I love you so much, I would be crushed to not see you as much.

love you

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Sometimes it is wise to step away and take a deep breath and remind oneself that this is supposed to be fun. If it isn't fun it is time to take a break and only return when it can be fun again.

If some topics get your goat I suggest avoiding those topics. If some people always irritate you use the "ignore button" and forget them. I sometimes wish I had the same button to use with political candidates on TV!

I've never been mad about anything on NazNet, but I've taken several breaks. Since I have some responsibilities, I let other moderators know. Aside from that, I turn off the computer and walk away.

I think in my 10+ years here, I've only had one person who noticed I was gone and asked about me. I appreciated them caring, but I was also reminded that my presence or absence isn't a very big deal and it certainly isn't one that warrants my announcing my intentions.

[Billy Cox]

This is my 357 post, I think.
I want to first thank Dave for this board. Nothing that I say below is directed at him. Dave is one of the best people I have met because of NazNet and I have come to love and admire him and Linda. Thank you Dave again for all the work you have put into NazNet over the years.:)
I have some things that have been bothering me for some time. I keep getting drawn back to NazNet for many reasons. However, lately I have decided maybe I needed to leave for a while. Maybe just sit on the side lines and pray for NazNet. Pray for the mionistry that is taking place and for those who tirelessly give of themselves. There are some on the board that have become like brothers and sisters. I love you and will stay in touch.
:basic04 I have come to dread seeing some threads and the comparisons that seem to keep coming to the surface on NazNet over the last year or so. The bigger the board has become it seems the more problems and dissension there is. Hateful and hurtful comments seem to be made at whim. That is not what this board is for. When statements are made like there have been over the last year or so, I wonder why I am staying around. I have noticed a lot of the old timers don't post any more. Maybe that is what I should do. Not post any more. I seldom read or post in response because we can count on someone making statements like these without considering what they are saying, or make incorrect assumptions.
Many of the polls are revealing that this is not an overwhelmingly conservative board any more. Might still lean to the conservative side but a much more liberal view of the world, society, theology and politics have steadily been increasing. Many times the Nazarene doctrine has been trampled on and individuals have been made to feel out of place and unwelcome that were part of the beginning years of this board.
So, I think I am going to sit on the sidelines for a while and see if the board swings back to it's conservativeness again.
I have been a part of NazNet for about 11 years. It has been home for me. It helped me through the darkest days of my life. Because of NazNet and a few really close friends in private conversations, I was able to go through more than most of you know about. So, without saying names, I really appreciate the hours you have spent with me on the phone, IM and e-mails. You kept me level and centered when I was having a hard time finding my bearings.
NazNet has been a place of refuge and support for hundreds of people. It hurts me to see the name calling (albeit disguised) and the drifting away from the purpose. I personally feel very intimidated to post much of the time. Even though most will not respond as an attack towards me on the boards. But the feeling is there, so I don't post very much. :basic04
I have great admiration for the leadership on this and the other forums of NazNet. I will continue to pray for Dave and Scott and Hans as they moderate NazNet. I have made many good friends and hope to continue those friendships. :)
There is still a lot of good going on. My decision is personal and I have given a lot of thought to it. I guess I am seeing what is happening in our country being reflected on the board. I feel much more comfortable being with people that are open to discussion rather than arguments. Even in life I avoid those who would rather argue a point than discover and attain understanding of both sides.
I am not angry, just disappointed.:basic04

Walt,

I appreciate your reasoned and sincere explanation of your experience. I am 100% sure that I am among those who posts things that make you uncomfortable. I am also a NazNet old-timer with a keen sense of NazNet and its history so I can speak to the ideological shift and perhaps offer insight.

I don't know that the overall ideology of NazNet participants has changed as much as those with 'alternate' viewpoints have become more candid. I am bold enough to suggest that many people have found their voice on NazNet when they could not be similarly candid at their local church. Seeing others express something besides the Nazarene party line gives courage to those who may have spent years keeping their mouths shut in Sunday School class.

I encourage you to have faith. Faith that authentic dialogue makes the Church stronger even when it looks like an all-out assault on what we hold dear. I also encourage you to trust the moderators of NazNet. Do you think that they would really let NazNet become a hotbed of Nazarene unfriendliness?

Anyway, I appreciate your post because it is a vivid reminder that there are real people behind these strings of letters and punctuation and that even a curmudgeon like me can season their posts with a dose of sensitivity.


-Billy

[Gina Stevenson]

Sometimes it is wise to step away and take a deep breath and remind oneself that this is supposed to be fun. If it isn't fun it is time to take a break and only return when it can be fun again.

If some topics get your goat I suggest avoiding those topics. If some people always irritate you use the "ignore button" and forget them. I sometimes wish I had the same button to use with political candidates on TV!

Seems to be quite a consensus re sometimes needing a break ... while not "forgetting(?)" to return after a sufficient sabbatical, eh Walt? ;)

Actually, there's probably not a person on here who hasn't taken a break now & then who's been here any length of time [such as several years]. While noticing sometimes that we've not seen posts from someone in awhile, I don't always mention it ... actually, don't recall the last time I ever did, if I even have. But many times their names gradually begin to appear again. So, just chill out ... and we'll see ya after a bit. :cool:

PS * forgot to add, to affirm Anne's post, that --- having met her, and talked to her several times since --- that Anne's certainly no prudish old gal ... she's quite delightfully silly at times, in fact, huh, Anne? [just call her and ask to talk to Duane; he'll tell ya!] ;)

[Judy Hamilton]

Walt
Your post has been helpful to me,as
a reminder that we are in community with each other, and need to maintain
a large measure of polite and tact,the lessons our parents passed down to us and we use daily for those we work with and worship with and our neighbors.
I cannot alleviate concern you have for deteriorating values as
some who post do not share the same standards you have for yourself.I have learned via living life amongst others that ones standards are their own and have little bearing on my walk with the the Lord. We are each one called to follow Christ in truth..and i feel this is what naznetters do..even we who are not of the Nazarene Church

as for values changing..you are also correct..a walk in the mall reveals the slipping of
values to which we try to hold tightly. and deposit(ed) into our children and now my grandchildren. Walt, try tonotgetbentout of shape when another one posting differs from you. This is just living life with those around us

Judy

[Dennis M. Scott]

In my extended family are some persons that I enjoy being with whenever we can. Being with them is like wearing a pair of slippers you've had for twenty years - they fit, and you can count on it. Sometimes with a few of them ideologies or lifestyles are so different I can hardly believe we spend time together, but we do - and live for those times. There are also some others that are pretty whacked, and don't care to be around me at all. Being together is always a pretty uncomfortable event. A few are harshly critical, almost mean spirited, and so paranoid that they have to maintain their own feelings of worth by blasting everyone else away. For some of us, it is allright when their visits are shorter and not so frequent. We've also got a few who bluntly say that if we're going to be together, it will have to be within two miles of their home, or they won't attend. There are a couple who are so flamboyant that we have to remind each other of how they are related. There's one side of the family who just talks non-stop. There can be three of them in the room, and have seven or eight conversations going just between them. No one has to listen, or respond to what anyone says - they just keep on chattering. For me, just trying to follow the threads of thought is a challenge, but it's ok with them because they don't care what I think anyway. About every fifth comment is that they love me, no matter what part of the country I come from.

Once in awhile a word or comment will slip out that reminds me that we don't all share identical values. Sometimes those distinctions are pretty significant, and occasionally defensiveness makes us uncomfortable. Of all these hundreds of people, there are some with whom I rarely spend time, but they are still family. We still love one another. I don't see how they can possibly maintain the intellectual positions they do. I am occasionally embarrassed about our wider gene pool, I guess. I do, however, still count them as family.

When Linda and I travel, we often visit with family. When we go on vacation, it more frequently is without such visits. We enjoy and do both. Sometimes I just need to put on my own slippers and go on vacation. It doesn't mean I don't love those people. It just means I need a break. I know I'll come back, and I know I'll be welcome. When I come back, there will be even more members of the family, some still whacked, and likely some even more vocal. Even though I am the only one with perfectly logical thinking patterns, I will love them all. I guess that although they don't think like I do they are still family.

You are highly valued, and loved. You aren't immune to evaluation and response. I've only been a part of naznet for four or five years, but I wasn't aware that this was intended to be a conservative place. One has never had to be conservative to be a friend of the Church of the Nazarene. There are places where one isn't welcome unless they are conservative, but there have always been some pushing for change and a wider understanding of how mercy and grace might work differently than it's always been perceived. Sometimes those pushing for mercy and grace can be pretty caustic in their manner: just like family. Please remember that you're an important part of naznet. Let's get together for ice cream sometime.

[Barbara Moulton]

When I really look back on it it I don't think I've ever been attacked on NazNet. There were times when a post felt like an attack in the moment, but when I review it now, I realize those posters simply had a very different opinion. It took me a while to realize that, even when they expressed those views in very strong language, it wasn't a personal attack.

I've been offended only a few times on NazNet, when I feel that someone crossed a line. But I usually deal with that person directly. I don't paint all of NazNet with the same brush.

On the woman's board I have started a thread on gratitude and being postive. We talk about the choice we have in life to focus with gratitude on what we have rather than what is lacking. I would say that 95% of NazNet I absolutely love. So that's what I choose to focus on. Not the 5% of posts that sometimes get under my skin.

In the ten years plus that I have been here, NazNet has been an occasional place of frustration but primarily a place of encouragement, fellowship and...let's face it..plain fun. I have this group of friends that I have been able to take them with me wherever I go and even meet some of them in the real world.

That's the blessing I will focus on.

Anne...I know that you and I have "locked horns" a couple of times here on NazNet and there is absolutely no question that we feel differently on a few subjects. But I appreciate so much about your spirit. I think if my mom was still alive, she would be much like you. LOL...maybe that's why we occasionally have disagreements.

But I want to assure you that if I ever disagree with you (which I am sure I will again in the future)....please know that I never mean my words of disagreement as a personal attack.

Blessings all.

Have a great day.

Barbara

[Ian Gentles]

I doubt many mean any personal attacks, just debate gets heated at times! Never met a NazNetter in the flesh that i didnt like, and i met a good number!

[Gina Stevenson]

When I really look back on it it I don't think I've ever been attacked on NazNet. There were times when a post felt like an attack in the moment, but when I review it now, I realize those posters simply had a very different opinion. It took me a while to realize that, even when they expressed those views in very strong language, it wasn't a personal attack.

Yes, most of the time when something is perceived as an attack (tho' there may have actually been--& were--some occurring over the years), both the receiver/sender may have something within their own filtering system that caused it to either be, or be perceived as such, rather than its being meant as a 100% "attack."

In the ten years plus that I have been here, NazNet has been an occasional place of frustration but primarily a place of encouragement, fellowship and...let's face it..plain fun. I have this group of friends that I have been able to take them with me wherever I go and even meet some of them in the real world.

Yes here, too, Barbara. It's normally a nice place to visit ... and the in-person visits have been very delightful, no? ;)

Anne...I know that you and I have "locked horns" a couple of times here on NazNet and there is absolutely no question that we feel differently on a few subjects. But I appreciate so much about your spirit. I think if my mom was still alive, she would be much like you. LOL...maybe that's why we occasionally have disagreements.

This reminded me of something long, long ago as I read it ... a pastor's wife in a church I attended long ago who was old enough to be my mother. Sometimes we'd "discuss" ... other times we'd just have to agree to disagree. ;)

In my extended family are some persons that I enjoy being with whenever we can. Being with them is like wearing a pair of slippers you've had for twenty years - they fit, and you can count on it. Sometimes with a few of them ideologies or lifestyles are so different I can hardly believe we spend time together, but we do - and live for those times ..........................

Once in awhile a word or comment will slip out that reminds me that we don't all share identical values. Sometimes those distinctions are pretty significant, and occasionally defensiveness makes us uncomfortable ...............

Even though I am the only one with perfectly logical thinking patterns, I will love them all. I guess that although they don't think like I do they are still family.

You are highly valued, and loved. You aren't immune to evaluation and response ............................

Dennis, you've done it again ... the red highlighted portion. :laughing

Let's get together for ice cream sometime.

How about Cold Stone Creamery, & I'll come, too ... they've sometimes got some fantastic amaretto yogurt that I've not had in many a year! 'Hope they still have it when I finally get around to taking one of their coupons and actually getting there again. ;)

[Marilyn Lawson]

Walt

I understand why you need a break. Please come and visit as much as you fell you can.
Over the years I have connected with a group here and have had their homes and lives opned to me. You are one of them!

I wish to thank you for that and I always look forward to what is happening in your life.
We all will be here - for when you want to check in and share what is happening in your life.
All the new experiences that you are facing and new memories you are building.

One day when you make it back up here to Ontario - when it is warmer, I look forward to finally meeting you in person.

Until then - email or do a small post.

HUGS :fav14

Marilyn