What is the purpose of this site?

[Scott Hilton]

This is in slight reference to the "I am sorry" thread. I have wanted to respond to that thread, but have been unable to find words that I felt comfortable with. However, that thread has left me with some questions.

The thread states that Walter feels this site has drifted from it's purpose over the last year or so. Since I have been a member on this site for a year and a half, that pretty much describes the time length I have been here. So, this makes me wonder if I am a part of this "drifting". However, when I searched for an official statement of the purpose of this site, I didn't really find one.

Welcome to NazNet, the web site for members and friends of the Church of the Nazarene.
This is the closest thing I have found, this is more of a description of the site, than a purpose statement. So am I missing a purpose statement for this site? I am just wondering, because when someone states that what I am a part of is drifting from it's purpose, I would like to know what purpose it is that is being used as a reference.

This is not meant as anything against Walter or that thread, but it is to answer some questions for me personally. See, I try not to consider my self, conservative, liberal, modern, Post modern etc....and I try not to do that to others. I understand discussing the categories themselves, but there are real people attached to those things and I believe we are more than a category. I have beliefs that would fall into any of those categories and I believe others do as well. I have always felt welcome here to discuss things openly and question things openly, I thought that is why we had the sections for these discussions.

Am I missing the purpose of this site?

blessings
Scott

[Wilson L. Deaton]

I don't know if we have an official purpose statement or not, but I'm pretty sure Dave has said in the past that "FELLOWSHIP" is the main idea....

Wilson

[Barb Bouldrey]

I believe that the fellowship here is the most important purpose. The fellowship, prayer support and encouragement mean a lot to many. It helps to know that people all over the world go through what we go through and believe in Christ as strongly as we do.

The eye-opener of NazNet for many of us is to see the vast difference in opinions on doctrine and leadership in our denomination. I think many of us, before getting involved in NazNet, believed that almost all Nazarenes believed the same about doctrine and polity. We have always known that people differ on things like drinking and movies, but is has been shocking to see that not everyone believes some of the basic things I have believed all my life about doctrine and about scriptures, and even about the sacraments.

NazNet has helped educate my understanding about things like Open Theism and what fundamentalism is. Things I did not understand before.

It has saddened my heart when at times I mention my deep belief in something I have believed all my life because I believe it,only to be made to feel as if I am legalistic for believing that. I admit I am conservative, and not as conservative as I used to be, but I feel offended when someone tries to declare me a legalistic Christian.

All in all, we just have to accept the fact than when it comes to religion and politics we might get our toes stepped on from time to time and be misunderstood.

We discuss and argue, but we also laugh together, cry together and pray for each other. We listen to each other and encourage one another. And that is the real purpose of me being here.

Barb

[Gina Stevenson]

Barb, you said it so well ... people who not only discuss, but laugh, cry and pray together, tend to become bonded ... real fellowship.

I believe that the fellowship here is the most important purpose. The fellowship, prayer support and encouragement mean a lot to many. It helps to know that people all over the world go through what we go through and believe in Christ as strongly as we do.

The eye-opener of NazNet for many of us is to see the vast difference in opinions on doctrine and leadership in our denomination. I think many of us, before getting involved in NazNet, believed that almost all Nazarenes believed the same about doctrine and polity. We have always known that people differ on things like drinking and movies, but is has been shocking to see that not everyone believes some of the basic things I have believed all my life about doctrine and about scriptures, and even about the sacraments.

NazNet has helped educate my understanding about things like Open Theism and what fundamentalism is. Things I did not understand before.

It has saddened my heart when at times I mention my deep belief in something I have believed all my life because I believe it,only to be made to feel as if I am legalistic for believing that. I admit I am conservative, and not as conservative as I used to be, but I feel offended when someone tries to declare me a legalistic Christian.

All in all, we just have to accept the fact than when it comes to religion and politics we might get our toes stepped on from time to time and be misunderstood.

We discuss and argue, but we also laugh together, cry together and pray for each other. We listen to each other and encourage one another. And that is the real purpose of me being here.

Barb

[Mark Metcalfe]

It has saddened my heart when at times I mention my deep belief in something I have believed all my life because I believe it,only to be made to feel as if I am legalistic for believing that.

I think that you've touched on the drift that people feel. It isn't a drift from the "purpose of NazNet" but a drift from what it means to be a Nazarene; there is no common understanding of this anymore. Through discussions on NazNet, there doesn't seem to be a simple reading of the Scripture anymore, or a simple understanding of the gospel anymore. When such things are called into doubt, it can leave a person bewildered, unsettled, disillusioned, and with a sense of loss over what many used to think was clear.

On the other hand, education is important and it is good for us to have access to theologians and struggle with theology. The trouble is that sometimes we confuse theology with opinion, which is forcefully and definitely stated among our gathered virtual community.

Mark

[Scott Hilton]

Barb,

Maybe that is the difference in how I came into this site. I had experience with other open denominational sites and was used being in disagreements on things of doctrine. That is even between people who are on the same wing of a doctrinal stance. Even reformed folk disagree on some matters of doctrine (i.e. Presb. infant baptism, others believers baptism) and can hotly discuss them.

I came into this site expecting to find people in the same camp of beliefs, but maybe liking a different style of tent than me. I also came in eyes wide open that message boards are a great vehicle for our humanity to show. I find this place to be one of the most loving and supportive message boards I have ever been a part of. So I guess I find it surprising that the purpose has drifted, when I find fellowship, support, discussion on the site and that is what I was expecting. I didn't come in expecting conservatism, liberalism, modernism or post modernism. I came in expecting fellowship with other humans who Love God, knowing full well that they are human and so am I.

I understand how the growth in candidness about post modern thought may rub some the wrong way. I also understand that many who had post modern thoughts never felt they were given the freedom to express those thoughts. It is also a given, that someday, post-modern will be passed by, by another "movement" within our persona as a culture. I guess I thought the one of the sub-purposes of this site was to have an avenue for all of these voices to have a place to speak.

So has the purpose of this site then drifted or do I have it wrong?

blessings
Scott

[Mike Wooldridge]

I came last July needing fellowship and support after my wife's death. I have, and continue to, find that here.
One thing NazNet is not and isn't intended be is a substitute for fellowship and worship in a physical congregation. Also, the site is not strictly Nazarene. There are those here from many denominations and maybe no denomination. As far as I can tell all are welcome as long as we play nice. :q)
As far as any "drift," I'm not sure what that would be from or to. I think the moderators do a good job of keeping the site in balance.

[Charles W Christian]

Good thoughts, Scott (and others) --
I like the interaction that comes on Naznet, as well as the diversity I see that is sometimes missing in the "average Nazarene congregation" (whatever that is).

Some people aggravate me, and I'm sure that I aggravate others. Most of the time this is unintentional on both sides. There is a lot of "Iron Sharpening" that happens, especially in the theology and current event sections, which the Bible claims is a good thing if it's done in the right way.

It's also fun to interact with folks I haven't seen in years and don't get to see regularly enough.

In the long-run, I enjoy seeing what happens when people pull together on Naznet to cheer someone who's down or to provide extra encouragement. That's always heart-warming.

Hooray, Naznet ...>!!:basic01
Thanks,
Charles

[Barbara Moulton]

I think it really is important to point out that it really isn't all Nazarenes. I was only a Nazarene for seven years and it was during that period that I joined NazNet.

When we had to leave our church and consequently come to another denomination, I received nothing but love and support from the members here.

The only time of real tension I have ever truly felt was during the start of the Iraq war when my country decided not to join the coalition as we had in Afghanistan. There were times when my posts in the Current Events got a little defensive. I regret that now and have tried to keep a far more even spirit.

And eventually I felt comfortable enough here to invite a member of my present congregation to take part. Having Laurie Florence participate has been an added blessings...a mingling of my "real world" with my "naznet world".

The only purpose that I don't think NazNet can fill is to give a place for people to simply come and agree with each other on everything LOL! That would be such a boring place wouldn't it?

[Mike Wooldridge]

To me NazNet is THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD8ljNobUys). I think of the song applying to NazNet instead of the fictional bar. :q)

[Anita F. Henck]

It has saddened my heart when at times I mention my deep belief in something I have believed all my life because I believe it,only to be made to feel as if I am legalistic for believing that. I admit I am conservative, and not as conservative as I used to be, but I feel offended when someone tries to declare me a legalistic Christian.

Barb -- well said. I'd note, however, that for some on this board (including some lurkers), your same statement could represent them with a few edits. Let me try to represent their views in this way ... (This is not directed to you, Barb, but your words are a good point of response for the original question.)

"It has saddened my heart when at times I mention my deep belief in something I have learned to believe -- through scripture and the leading of the Holy Spirit -- only to be made to feel as if I am unholy and not spiritual enough for believing that. I admit I am not as conservative as some, and not as liberal as others, but I feel offended when someone tries to declare me to be a liberal and unholy person claiming to be a Christian."

In the last few weeks, I've been contacted by several lurkers in response to some of my calls for moderation. Some have been deeply wounded by the church (some by the Nazarene church and others by other denominations). They get glimpses of hope by some of the posts on Naznet and then see some of the same behavior that was part of their historic pain. Feeling judged for beliefs that they believe are spirit-led is a very painful point.

Judging each other's spirituality is wrong -- whichever end of the spectrum. And, I truly believe that longevity as a Christian doesn't always equate to super-spirituality (nor is it mutually exclusive). Some of the greatest purity of heart that I've seen has come from baby Christians who had considerable sin in their life prior to finding the redemption that only Christ can bring. Who are any of us to tell them that they aren't following Him as well as we are?

Can we put these differences aside and simply try to be faithful to what God has called us to do? THAT would be a good purpose for this site!

[Dennis M. Scott]

In the last few weeks, I've been contacted by several lurkers in response to some of my calls for moderation. Some have been deeply wounded by the church (some by the Nazarene church and others by other denominations). They get glimpses of hope by some of the posts on Naznet and then see some of the same behavior that was part of their historic pain. Feeling judged for beliefs that they believe are spirit-led is a very painful point.


Once in awhile some of that stuff that has powerfully hurt some pokes its head up. Even some of us who haven't been hurt desire mightily that those things will go away. I guess I would hope that at least those who have been hurt - for whom I anquish - can at least know that they weren't imagining it, or that they weren't being unreasonable. Their hurts were, and sometimes are, real. Those things are terrible, and some of us grieve that they sometimes still are there - here. Along the way, there is good with the bad. Grace in the midst of sin. I am so sorry for those I have hurt, and perhaps still smart from it. I am also sorry for others who have been hurtful. I think they are jerks, and sometimes I wonder how they're going to fit in heaven.

Among other things, Naznet is a place where people can heal. It's not always a "safe place", but most of the time it is. It's just like church: most of the time it's a good place, even though sometimes it isn't. We need to commit personally to doing all we can to make it better. I want to be a vessel of grace, love and healing. For at least one of us, that's an appropriate goal for naznet.

[Dave McClung]

This is in slight reference to the "I am sorry" thread. I have wanted to respond to that thread, but have been unable to find words that I felt comfortable with. However, that thread has left me with some questions.

The thread states that Walter feels this site has drifted from it's purpose over the last year or so. Since I have been a member on this site for a year and a half, that pretty much describes the time length I have been here. So, this makes me wonder if I am a part of this "drifting". However, when I searched for an official statement of the purpose of this site, I didn't really find one.


This is the closest thing I have found, this is more of a description of the site, than a purpose statement. So am I missing a purpose statement for this site? I am just wondering, because when someone states that what I am a part of is drifting from it's purpose, I would like to know what purpose it is that is being used as a reference.

This is not meant as anything against Walter or that thread, but it is to answer some questions for me personally. See, I try not to consider my self, conservative, liberal, modern, Post modern etc....and I try not to do that to others. I understand discussing the categories themselves, but there are real people attached to those things and I believe we are more than a category. I have beliefs that would fall into any of those categories and I believe others do as well. I have always felt welcome here to discuss things openly and question things openly, I thought that is why we had the sections for these discussions.

Am I missing the purpose of this site?

blessings
Scott

Scott, yours is a fair question. NazNet has only one purpose -- fellowship.

[Dave McClung]

Scott, yours is a fair question. NazNet has only one purpose -- fellowship.




I realize that many of you may not be aware of the history of NazNet. NazNet.Com was created by Brian Merrill when he worked for Nazarene Headquarters in the IT area. He bought the name before Nazarene.Org came into being. Brian's vision for NazNet was to be a site where people could learn about the Church of the Nazarene -- primarily an information site.

His vision was for NazNet.Com to be self funding through the sale of books and merchandise related to the Church of the Nazarene.

When I found NazNet.Com through a search engine, I contacted Brian and suggested that a Fellowship Forum would be a good compliment to his site. I volunteered to be the Moderator. Brian did the technical work, and I started contacting people to join in the online fellowship.

Within a short time, the NazNet Fellowship Board over shadowed the information side of the site. The "self-funding" objective never worked out. Brian invested a good bit of his personal resources into the development of the site. When the cost became too much of a burden for Brian, I offered to buy the site from him.

Over time, the information side of NazNet has become less and less important and the fellowship side has continued to grow. My purpose for continuing to fund NazNet is strictly for the fellowship.

Getting to know Nazarenes from all around the world has been a blessing to Linda and me. All of you are precious to us. We are blessed to have you as friends.

[Terri Knoll]

I don't think the information side has become less important, I refer many people seeking a church to this site which of course leads into wanting to know more. I "sell" this site to alot of people that want to know why I believe what I do.

I know I have said it a million times at least (or close anyway) thank you so much for Naznet. Fellowship is important and I count Naznet meetings among my many blessings, even when my jokes go awry lol.

thanx again so much

[Dave McClung]

I don't think the information side has become less important, I refer many people seeking a church to this site which of course leads into wanting to know more. I "sell" this site to alot of people that want to know why I believe what I do.

I know I have said it a million times at least (or close anyway) thank you so much for Naznet. Fellowship is important and I count Naznet meetings among my many blessings, even when my jokes go awry lol.

thanx again so much

Terri, what I meant by the "information side" is the kind of information available on Nazarene.Org. If someone wants to know some specific information about the Church of the Nazarene, it is easier to find it on Nazarene.Org.

[Terri Knoll]

yep that is my point too! for someone not knowing about the church of the Nazarene or Nazarene.org this is a great starting place. Eventually they DO find the ORG

and that is fantastic to me.

[Barb Bouldrey]

Yes, Anita, I see what you are saying.

The conservatives feel misunderstood by the liberals. The liberals feel misunderstood by the conservatives. We tend to label each other because of the views we express.

Often someone will "jump" on one sentence or one phrase and counter it in such a way that it seems defensive or "you are SO wrong," instead of just letting each other state thier opinion.

I think that is part of the "not judging." And it goes both ways, whether it be on doctrine or worship style, or political choices.

Often people who have been hurt sound defensive even if they do not mean to sound that way.

We cannot change each other nor should we attempt to change each other with our persuasion. But so many times it is hard to keep quiet and just let others express opinions. LOL I have been there, done that.

But even after a heated debate on a touchy subject, we can turn the corner and laugh together over something, or cry together or pray for one another's burdens.

Same things happen in a family.

Barb

[Scott Hilton]

Scott, yours is a fair question. NazNet has only one purpose -- fellowship.



thank you Dave, let me just also thank you personally for your dedication to the site. It has meant a great deal to my growth and understanding in faith.

blessings

[Anita F. Henck]

We cannot change each other nor should we attempt to change each other with our persuasion. But so many times it is hard to keep quiet and just let others express opinions. LOL I have been there, done that.

But even after a heated debate on a touchy subject, we can turn the corner and laugh together over something, or cry together or pray for one another's burdens.

Barb--Again, I'll quote you just to continue the dialogue for all of us.

What I have seen as having been most harmful to dialogue (on Naznet or within the church) is when some folks pull a "trump card" and shut down the dialogue and turn it into a "monologue".

As I've observed it, the "trump card" is sometimes:
* education
* position/role
* age/seniority
* longevity (of membership in the church, time in a given role, or even how long someone has been on Naznet!)
* "God told me the right way to behave" (and this is true for you too!)

I've never understood how these approaches are reconciled with the Gospel -- neither Jew nor Greek, neither slave nor free. My understanding is that each of us can be led by the Holy Spirit to a point of discernment; we have a High Priest and don't have to have others decree to us. One of my wise former pastors use to say, "If God can tell you, He can tell me. And, I'm listening to see what He's saying." This was his wise way of dealing with folks who played the trump card in the local church and wanted to decree how things should be done (carpet color, music style, etc.).

Sadly, not everyone sticks around for the laughter, tears, and prayer after having been trumped. Woundedness can do that.

Just some thoughts on a late night!

[Hans Deventer]

My purpose for continuing to fund NazNet is strictly for the fellowship.

Dave, I talked with Kevin about this last night in the light of the conference. I'm enjoying my time here very much, but the truth is that the fellowship is simply the key component (I'm sorry Tom!) That does not mean that the discussions and the programs don't have value. They most certainly do. But it most certainly shows that not only holiness is relational, our entire faith is relational. Our very existence has meaning as being part of the body of Christ. So discussions on theology and politics and whatever topic there may be, for me, have only meaning withing the context of fellowship. Knowledge is no goal in itself, and even truth is not a statement but a Person we need to get to know.

[Cindi Hammons]

Barb,

As usual, I agree with 99% of what you are saying. It must be that Buckeye blood coursing through our veins! :laughing However, I disagree with this statement....to a point...

We cannot change each other nor should we attempt to change each other with our persuasion.

I have been changed in my approach towards worship, my beliefs on Open Theism, and my tolerance towards people of a different political persuasion by discussions on this board. I am a different person than when Mark found NazNet 7 years ago, and I'm glad of those changes! I think if we decided that we cannot change another person's persuasions, then we would have zero evangelism outreach in the church.

But, I do agree with the spirit of your statement that I quoted. I think that we on NazNet need to realize that we will most likely not change another person, and that if we do try to change someone, it should be done with humility, grace, love and understanding...not a spirit of superiority and distain.

I hope this makes sense.

[Cindi Hammons]

Anita,

Mark and I call this the "God Card," and we have seen it used ad nauseum by some folks extensively in our church history. It basically goes like this...if you don't agree with (those people), then you must be spiritually deficient. If you try to make any changes (those people) disagree with, then you must be spiritually deficient. If you do anything that doesn't look like 1960 Nazarenedom, then you must be spiritually deficient. Ok, that sounds like "you might be a redneck!" :) But seriously, the "God Card" is a dangerous tool.

Thank you for posting your list of "trump cards."

[Jon Twitchell]

Q. How many naznetters does it take to change a lightbulb?

A. Only one. But the lightbulb has to want to be changed. :)

I find that messageboards are most successful when people approach it with an attitude of teachability, and openness to learning a new perspective. When participants expend energy trying to convince someone else that they are wrong, or trying to "change" them, they rarely succeed. But when we come together and admit that we all have a lot to learn, and that we are willing to change... then the most growth and positive dialogue occurs.

Playing the "God Card," is not evidence of a teachable spirit. And most of the time, when I find myself playing the "God Card," it's because I'm no longer open to change in my own life. And when I am no longer open to change, I can not possibly grow spiritually. Change is a necessary component of spiritual growth. Spiritual growth cannot happen without it.

[Barb Bouldrey]

Cindi,

I too have been changed in my thinking about some things because of discussions here, but not because someone has tried to change my thinking. It is because of learning from what others share.

I think we do agree on the 1% but just say it differently. What I really meant is that I cannot change a Republican's mind so they become a Democrat. I cannot change a Baptist's mind about eternal security so that they become Nazarenes. I cannot change a comtemporary music worshiper's mind so they become a traditional worship music lover.

That is what I should not try to do. And I also should not condemn those who do not agree with me and make them feel that "you are SO wrong, and I am SO right."

Just a silly example. If I say, "it sure is cold," John will say, "Oh, it is not!." The way he says it makes me feel as if he is telling me, "You are wrong." But if I say, " I sure feel cold today," he will not say, "You are not cold."

A lot of it comes down to how we say what we say.

Barb

[Mark Metcalfe]

Re: Playing the "God Card."

I'd like to suggest a new icon next to the thanks and funny buttons to "throw a flag" on any post that uses the "God Card." Or, perhaps we need an icon on a post when anyone decides that thay are using the God Card.

Mark

P.S. If you don't know me well enough, you might not know that I am just injecting my own brand of humor. So, just kidding, folks. :bible :amen :fav12 :PTL)

[Dave McClung]

This is in slight reference to the "I am sorry" thread. I have wanted to respond to that thread, but have been unable to find words that I felt comfortable with. However, that thread has left me with some questions.

The thread states that Walter feels this site has drifted from it's purpose over the last year or so. Since I have been a member on this site for a year and a half, that pretty much describes the time length I have been here. So, this makes me wonder if I am a part of this "drifting". However, when I searched for an official statement of the purpose of this site, I didn't really find one.


This is the closest thing I have found, this is more of a description of the site, than a purpose statement. So am I missing a purpose statement for this site? I am just wondering, because when someone states that what I am a part of is drifting from it's purpose, I would like to know what purpose it is that is being used as a reference.

This is not meant as anything against Walter or that thread, but it is to answer some questions for me personally. See, I try not to consider my self, conservative, liberal, modern, Post modern etc....and I try not to do that to others. I understand discussing the categories themselves, but there are real people attached to those things and I believe we are more than a category. I have beliefs that would fall into any of those categories and I believe others do as well. I have always felt welcome here to discuss things openly and question things openly, I thought that is why we had the sections for these discussions.

Am I missing the purpose of this site?

blessings
Scott

I have been thinking about my answer to your question. When we first started NazNet, we called this board the "Fellowship Board." It has evolved to "NazNet Community Discussion."

The change of names indicates that more goes on here than mere fellowship. Perhaps "Building Community" is a more accurate term. What I observed here during Brad's illness and death was more than fellowship. So, from now on, I will express the purpose of NazNet.Com as "building community among Nazarenes and friends."

How does that sound?

[Chuck Wilkes]

I like your idea, Dave. The character of the board has changed since I joined. I can't rememeber when I joined exactly, but I think it was 1996 or '97. We've been through a lot since the old Prodigy days. But, all along it's been a community-building exercise. We've shared information; we've shared hopes and dreams; we've shared success and failure and suffered deep loss of our community members. All the way along we've engaged the process of trying to build a virtual community with all of its challenges. Sometimes feelings have been hurt and folks have taken breaks to recoup.

Along the way, I've observed that this place reminds me a lot of any gathering of folks to whom their spiritual faith has deep meaning. Without the ability to see each other's faces, give and receive hugs and pats on the back and to see into each other's eyes...I think we've done pretty well.

I don't participate as much now as I used to simply because of time pressures. When I post I like to fully enagage the thread so I can be careful in my responses and thoughtful in my postings. But, I still read much of the postings and my general belief is that our Father is pleased that we continue to try to express his character in our posts...even when we don't succeed very well, I think he cares that we try.

Blessings on each of you,

Chuck

[David Showalter]

So, from now on, I will express the purpose of NazNet.Com as "building community among Nazarenes and friends."

How does that sound?
__________________

Dave McClung


Dear Bro. Dave, please instruct on the proper way to cast a vote so I can send a resounding yes to "building community!" you are so smart:bannana, thanks for supporting a blessing to so many of us.

[Anita F. Henck]

I have been thinking about my answer to your question. When we first started NazNet, we called this board the "Fellowship Board." It has evolved to "NazNet Community Discussion."

The change of names indicates that more goes on here than mere fellowship. Perhaps "Building Community" is a more accurate term. What I observed here during Brad's illness and death was more than fellowship. So, from now on, I will express the purpose of NazNet.Com as "building community among Nazarenes and friends."

How does that sound?

Dave--
While out running errands this morning, I had been mulling over your previous answer of "fellowship" as this board's reason for existence. I had come up with an alternative answer. When I came back to post, I saw your change to "building community". It matches more closely what I was planning to propose.

Here is a version for consideration.

Naznet exists to provide:
* a place of fellowship
* an opportunity to learn more about the beliefs and practices of the Church of the Nazarene
* a place to model healthy Christian community

All of this works to encourage believers, to help them grow in their faith, and to enhance the maturity of relationships -- individually, in local churches, and at district and denominational levels.

It seems to me that the phrase "mutual accountability" should fit someplace; one of the hallmarks of Naznet, as compared with other discussion groups, is the role participants play in creating a mutually acceptable environment. It is not just the work of moderators. That is a real plus for Naznet.

[Jon Twitchell]

I have been thinking about my answer to your question. When we first started NazNet, we called this board the "Fellowship Board." It has evolved to "NazNet Community Discussion."

The change of names indicates that more goes on here than mere fellowship. Perhaps "Building Community" is a more accurate term. What I observed here during Brad's illness and death was more than fellowship. So, from now on, I will express the purpose of NazNet.Com as "building community among Nazarenes and friends."

How does that sound?

I'm not sure that I see the real distinction. Christian fellowship is (or at least should be) more than potlucks and Sunday School picnics. Isn't the goal of true Christian Fellowship to build community?

Just my opinion, of course... :)

[Jon Twitchell]

Anita,

I would say the same thing about "Mutual Accountability." Does true Christian Fellowship exist without it?

I'm not trying to be a dissenting voice here... :) I am just concerned that we diminish the real meaning of fellowship when we put "community buillding" and "mutual accountability" outside its definition as though they were something that had to happen in addition to fellowship.

[Scott Hilton]

So then the purpose is great Dave, I agree wholeheartedly with your edited version.

Now a follow up question is are we doing everything to ensure that everyone feels comfortable with letting their view known within building the community?

I more than understand that those with what would be considered, less traditional views on things, have a history of not feeling comfortable with speaking their thoughts and being able to bounce these things off others. I think this site has done a great job with allowing them a place to do this, where they may not be able to do this in their church home.

What I am concerned about, is if we are doing it at the cost of those with more traditional views feeling as though they also have that voice. I don't know if there is an answer in there. I would hope that those who now have a voice, would remember what it was like for them to be "shunned" for their views and would try to respond in a way that would be growth oriented and not discussion strangling to those who hold to the traditional views.

I don't know how the W2W thread has worked for the women here, because I have actually managed to not go there :basic05 . But I wonder if we maybe could test try a section for those who hold to a traditional belief in things to be able to discuss the state of things without interruption from others, much like the men are to stay out of the women's section. I would have no idea how to set up the parameters of that section as to who is considered classical and not, but is it worth more thought?

The last thing I want to do, is see a highly respected, knowledgeable and loving portion of the community disappear. This is regardless of where they may settle in with our "categories" of conservative, liberal, modern, Post modern etc...

Just some thoughts there.....

blessings
Scott

[Anita F. Henck]

Anita,

I would say the same thing about "Mutual Accountability." Does true Christian Fellowship exist without it?

Probably not. But, having come from an era where the 3 F's were routinely mentioned at church -- fun, food, and fellowship -- I think I've seen it become more routinely used in the church to represent "socializing", rather than "community building". Thus, my recommendation for a more expansive definition.

Yes, "fellowship" includes more than social aspects. But, the word is used so differently in the churches of which I've been a part that it seemed better to clarify it. Just my opinion!

[Peggy Gray]

Maybe it's just semantics, but to me potlucks and movie nights are "Christians having fellowship", which is not the same as "Christian fellowship."

[Anita F. Henck]

Now a follow up question is are we doing everything to ensure that everyone feels comfortable with letting their view known within building the community? ... What I am concerned about, is if we are doing it at the cost of those with more traditional views feeling as though they also have that voice. I don't know if there is an answer in there. I would hope that those who now have a voice, would remember what it was like for them to be "shunned" for their views and would try to respond in a way that would be growth oriented and not discussion strangling to those who hold to the traditional views.

Scott--
If it's OK, I'd like to build on your discussion. I agree that we need to find a balance where multiple views are able to be represented. Interestingly, our denominational stance allows that on quite a few things. I see that as one of our strengths as a denomination.

What I've seen on Naznet relative to this, however, has been a dismay by some with traditional views that there is even a discussion to be held.; questioning or discussion is sometimes seen as heresy. Some are very accustomed to their views being credentialed by (a) their longevity in the church, (b) their role in the church, or (c) their dismay at the current direction of the church. It is THAT reply that generates controversy more than the fact that they hold a more conservative view (whatever "conservative" even means these days!).

For example, some months back, a discussion on theistic evolution devolved into "where is our denomination going?" discussion. Ironically, the Manual of the Church of the Nazarene allows for a wide range of perspectives on creation -- from a literal interpretion to one of theistic evolution. Sadly, some who were the most vocal critics of the latter view didn't seem aware of what the Manual really said about this.

In a separate thread, there is discussion of the "trump card" or "God card" being played. As I run through my head the times that folks who express more conservative views have expressed offense from a post-er with a different view, all I can remember are times when they were offended that there was even any question to be discussed. The perspective on an absolute answer that is the only right answer has been central to the only ill will that I have seen being generated.

But, again, I don't read every thread. Perhaps you have seen something I've not seen. I haven't seen attacks on conservative ideas. I have seen occasional defensiveness to the idea that questioning something is not a heretical stance.

[Barb Bouldrey]

It is not just the conservative person who takes offense at times. It is anyone who differs from someone else on ANY topic that SOMETIMES takes offense.

I have seen the liberal poster take offense as often as I have seen the convervative poster take offense.

I have seen SOME post in such a way as to infer: "This is the way it has always been and should stay that way", but I have also seen SOME post, "This is the new way and this is the way it should be NOW." Both sides of many issues have been caught inferring that their way is the only right way.

Again, it is all about how we word things and how we read things. We need to allow others to post their opinions without attacking them and declaring them wrong just because they do not agree with us.

Hard to do all the time, I know. We are human and bent to defending the way we believe...conservative or liberal. Old or new. Pro or Con.

Barb

[Scott Hilton]

I think we can safely say that both sides of any conversation, has a chance at saying something that could be offensive or taken as offensive. I am beginning to wonder if a larger problem is that there seems to be a lack of granting that offensiveness as being real to the other person?

We seem to be quick on the retorts, but slow on the apologies as a whole (humanity). Message boards make this even easier.....

blessings
Scott

[Hans Deventer]

So, from now on, I will express the purpose of NazNet.Com as "building community among Nazarenes and friends."

How does that sound?

Sounds good to me. I like it.

[Marsha Lynn]

The thread states that ... this site has drifted from it's purpose over the last year or so. Since I have been a member on this site for a year and a half, that pretty much describes the time length I have been here. So, this makes me wonder if I am a part of this "drifting".

I've been around since NazNet's days of infancy. I would say that one of the things that never changes is that there are people who have been around awhile who make statements about how much better things were in previous days of NazNet. And there are new people along with those who have been around awhile who comment about how cliquish NazNet is and how difficult it is being on the outside looking in. That part, at least, seems pretty constant. And even as those 'outsiders' stand around gnashing their teeth in despair of ever becoming an 'insider', others with no greater history with the organization slip past them and into the midst of the fellowship as though they were born wearing a NazNet button.

I have found NazNet to be a breath of fresh air in my conservative world right from the beginning. Personally, I haven't noticed that NazNet has changed in general philosophy all that much over time, but I do see that people come in with expectations and react in various ways after varying amount of time when it becomes obvious that this group doesn't meet their expectations.

Scott, I hesitate to downplay your influence around here, but I really don't think you can take much credit for creating NazNet's tolerance for 'liberal' positions. It was here before you came.

:fav01

Marsha

[Greg Farra]

And to think I came here to get away from the liberals on Beliefnet!!! ;)

I guess that's why labels are not always what we think they are. It depends on your perspective.

[Scott Hilton]

I've been around since NazNet's days of infancy. I would say that one of the things that never changes is that there are people who have been around awhile who make statements about how much better things were in previous days of NazNet. And there are new people along with those who have been around awhile who comment about how cliquish NazNet is and how difficult it is being on the outside looking in. That part, at least, seems pretty constant. And even as those 'outsiders' stand around gnashing their teeth in despair of ever becoming an 'insider', others with no greater history with the organization slip past them and into the midst of the fellowship as though they were born wearing a NazNet button.

I have found NazNet to be a breath of fresh air in my conservative world right from the beginning. Personally, I haven't noticed that NazNet has changed in general philosophy all that much over time, but I do see that people come in with expectations and react in various ways after varying amount of time when it becomes obvious that this group doesn't meet their expectations.

Scott, I hesitate to downplay your influence around here, but I really don't think you can take much credit for creating NazNet's tolerance for 'liberal' positions. It was here before you came.

:fav01

Marsha

I wasn't taking credit for creating it, lol. I also don't think I have "influence" one way or the other. I just like to take account for myself sometimes within a community that I feel a part of. If I am doing something that makes others uncomfortable in a bad way, I like to know about it. If it makes them uncomfortable only because we simply disagree, then I may not change, however it is still something I like to know.

I also like to know if there is a purpose for the community I am a part of, which Dave is nicely stated. Like I said in a previous post, I came in with message board experience and with expectations that misunderstandings would happen, differences would be voiced etc. So, these things did not take me by surprise. Plus, I don't really consider myself liberal.....or conservative.....I really dislike labels to be honest.

There are too many great people here for me to ever feel that uncomfortable........ya'll ain't gonna get rid of me, lol

blessings
Scott

[Gina Stevenson]

To me NazNet is THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD8ljNobUys). I think of the song applying to NazNet instead of the fictional bar. :q)

Without checking, bet this is re Cheers, isn't it?

There are too many great people here for me to ever feel that uncomfortable........ya'll ain't gonna get rid of me, lol

blessings
Scott

We aint!? That's good. :laughing

[Scott Hilton]

Gina, please don't tell my momma I said ain't, I will never hear the end of it, lol

[Dave McClung]

Gina, please don't tell my momma I said ain't, I will never hear the end of it, lol

Scott
I can't quite figure out your Avitar photo. Are you in a cave? If so, which one?

[Billy Cox]

Without checking, bet this is re Cheers, isn't it?


I thought it might be 'Coyote Ugly'. :basic05

[Scott Hilton]

Scott
I can't quite figure out your Avitar photo. Are you in a cave? If so, which one?

Yep that is a cave. We stopped in Kentucky last summer on vacation for a day and did a cave tour.......my daughter took a picture of me walking up in part of one. In the Smiths Grove area of Kentucky. Beautiful area!

blessings

If you click on this image, it will give a short slide show from the caves

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o212/quietloudness/VacationA/th_STF_0730.jpg (http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o212/quietloudness/VacationA/?action=view&current=0fff6cb4.pbw)

[Barbara Moulton]

Yep that is a cave. We stopped in Kentucky last summer on vacation for a day and did a cave tour.......my daughter took a picture of me walking up in part of one. In the Smiths Grove area of Kentucky. Beautiful area!


Three years in a row we have driven through Kentucky to Tennessee. Three years I've said to Carl, "We should stop sometime and check out these caves."

Maybe this year.

[Scott Hilton]

Three years in a row we have driven through Kentucky to Tennessee. Three years I've said to Carl, "We should stop sometime and check out these caves."

Maybe this year.
I can assure you, it's worth it and the cave we went in was not really one of the better ones in the area. My wife does not do well in confined areas and had a panick attack earlier that day, so it was a blessing that she got to go through that one. However, Nolin State park is in that area and also a beautiful scenic drive if you get the chance!

blessings

[Gina Stevenson]

Gina, please don't tell my momma I said ain't, I will never hear the end of it, lol

Yes, I can understand; used to hear about it when a kid, too. Think she's even slipped and used it a time or two the last several years; maybe picked it up from her kids? :basic05

Yep that is a cave. We stopped in Kentucky last summer on vacation for a day and did a cave tour.......my daughter took a picture of me walking up in part of one. In the Smiths Grove area of Kentucky. Beautiful area!

OK, are these caves in the Smith's Grove area those called Mammoth Caves? If so, I've been in them; otherwise, it's some other caves. Will check out that slide show, and see if it'll load quickly enough on dial-up ... sometimes things do, tho' most of the time they don't. gs [nope, it rather sat there, not wanting to load; but, anyway, BTDT, so have an idea of what you saw. ;)]

[Scott Hilton]

Gina, yes the cave is in the same area as the Mammoth caves. I think Kentucky is said to have the highest concentration of caves in the U.S., they are quite the site to see!

I really did think Kentucky was beautiful too!