Heaven

[Mark Metcalfe]

I originally posted this in the Hell thread, but thought it probably deserves
its own discussion, though it may be hard to talk about one without the
other.


I saw a Barbara Walter special on Heaven: where is it and how do we get
there? See for info if you missed the program:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/Beliefs/story?id=1374010

She interviewed people from the following:


Interviews:

Catholic Bishop
Prominent Jewish scholar
Evangelical
Baptist (African American Baptist, as opposed to southern white)
Muslim Scholar
Dhali Lama (Bhuddist)
Author of "The 5 people you'll meet when you go to heaven"
Atheist
Muslim terrorist (failed suicide bomber)
Richard Gere (Bhuddist adherent)
Liz Taylor (near death experiencer, among others)

Barbara pressed the evangelical to explain who was going to get into
heaven and who was consigned to hell. I actually liked how he answered
in that "[belief in] Jesus Christ guarantees you'll get to heaven; all other
paths are on their own (paraphrased; he did not consign non-believers
automatically to hell - as did a failed-Muslim-suicide-bomber that she
also interviewed).

Best answer for the purpose of life (IMO) came from the Jewish scholar
who said that we are here to glorify God in this life (and not much emphasis
was placed on the afterlife - which occurs only at the new creation for
Jews).

I was uncomfortable with the juxtaposition of Barbara asking the
Evangelical (with church images of swaying and fervent praise that
makes some Nazarenes uncomfortable) about who goes to hell, when
the only other person she asked was the Mulism terrorist; the Muslim
scholar demured and said that the Koran prohibits judging who will
go to heaven and who will go to helll (which is God's prerogative).

I was least impressed with the Bishop's answer to the purpose of
life - to get to the end on good terms with God; sounded to me
like the journey itself was secondary.

The Dhali Lama projected what I think a lot of people believe: that
if you do good things and are positive then you are on the track
toward heaven (Nivana) through the process of recurring reincarnation
and conversely, if you are negative and do negative things, then you
are in the process of heading to hell - you just won't get to either
place for quite some time because you get recycled a lot.

Not surprisingly, the Jew and Christian subjects had similar notions
of heaven (since one came from the other). Muslim heaven was
similar in the "garden-like" and peaceful aspects, but sex and alcohol
were enjoyed in heaven without any downsides. (Jesus said that
relations will be different in heaven than they are here and that sex
won't be around because it won't be necessary or have purpose. I
paraphrase again.) Nirvhana is complete awareness.

The black Baptist preacher spoke of heaven as the hope (or light
at the end of the tunnel, that being the struggle of life).

The athiest said that she was "not happy about it" that after death,
there is nothing, but "she accepts it for what it is."

The author posited that even if heaven was only a notion, a fabrication
of the human psyche or a gene that predisposes some people to believe,
it modifes people behaviors in positive ways.

Mark

[Gina Stevenson]

'Watched it last night, too. Also noticed that pressing the evangelical [forgot his name] for specifics ... she even asked him if homosexuals & lesbians were going to go to hell ... if that didn't sound like it was trying to stir up some certain groups re evangelicals, not sure what would be such a "stirring" subject.

Interestingly, this question aired on the evening of the day a noted homo allegedly "got married" ... old Elton John. [BTW, it's hard to separate the musician from his life(style), tho' he's written some songs that are good ... when a couple of us used one in church once (for father's day), we never did say who had written it! I'd tell you its title if I could recall at the moment. ;) ]

Anyway, this evangelical did handle the question well ... mentioning how they, too -- if they would believe on Jesus Christ -- could go to heaven [the part left out, about their forsaking sin, just the same as any other sinner is expected to, will be picked on by some other evangelicals, I'm sure ... suggesting he was compromising, etc].

Couldn't believe she asked the Dhali Lama if he were some sort of a god ... he did, however [sounding embarrassed at such a question], rightly acknowledge that he's just a teacher. What he teaches is another story ....

OK, I've said rather much, and if I say much more, it might end up belonging over in that other thread ... re "nothing." So, I'll stop.

[Mark Metcalfe]

I imagine that a lot of editing went into that two-hour broadcast.
I watched the show, knowing that someone made the call and cuts
to edit what we got to see from the interviews. Most of it was
fine and objective (getting answers from various religious leaders)
but the evangelical-baiting seemed liked they tried hard to paint
a picture. The evangelical answered well, and those who were listening
would have heard the answer through the spin (that I thought they
put on it).

Mark

[Virginia Stimer]

Mark,

I watched the program. I think you did a great job of outlining what happened. I was pleased with the response from the representative of Evangelicals.

I was really surprised when Barbara asked if she could kiss the Dahli Lama on the cheek! I'll keep watching this thread to see of anyone else adds to it.

Virginia

[Mark Metcalfe]

I searched NazNet for "5 People You Meet in Heaven" and it thought the
words were too common for an effective search.

I understand this was a popular book not long ago. I saw a DVD in the
cheap rack ($9.44) at Target last night and picked it up, and we watched
it on our wall last night. I found it to be very interesting, though nothing
about any religions whatsoever. (Perhaps that, too, is interesting.)

The movie starred John Voyt as a man who seemingly led an unimportant
life, was killed, and journeys to heaven to meet with five people. You may
be tempted to think "It's a Wonderful Life" - and the theme is that we are
all interconnected and make a difference, but the comparison stops there.

The first person he meets in heaven is someone he barely knows; a man
that died as the result of the shock he had avoiding a hitting a little boy
with his car. This represented the seeming randomness or unintentional
causes of pain that a person causes.

The second person he meets is an army buddy who was killed in the war.
The lesson is that sacrifice is noble and nothing to be ashamed about.

The third person bring him into contact with his once-abusive father.
The lesson is about forgiving those who have done you harm.

The fourth person brings the lesson of love - his wife who preceded
him in death by some years to a brain tumor - that love reaches
beyond and when you cannot hold a person's hand, you can hold the
memory.

The fifth person brings a lesson about being forgiven for the harm
caused to another. He killed a child in the war, though he did not
know - she was collateral damage.

Once he learns from these five people, he can enter his own heaven.
This is the popular imagination, that people create their own heaven
(or their own hell; a theme promoted in "What Dreams May Come").

Mark

P.S. 5 People You Meet in Heaven is made by Hallmark and may be viewed
by just about anyone. There are some scenes of violence. What Dreams May Come
contains expletives that are not deleted. There are profanity filters
on the market that silence most expletives; the cost is about $80.

[Gina Stevenson]

That "Five People you Meet in Heaven" was on TV before I ever saw the video in the stores. The other one I've never heard of.

Tho't it was a sort of "interesting" film, too ... strange in ways, too ..............