How many have you led to the Lord?

[Dale Cozby]

Over the course of your Christian walk how many people have you personally been the primary instrument in God's hand in them coming to a saving faith in Christ?
How many would point back to you as the primary reason they accepted Christ as Lord?
Let's not wax on about how "only God saves people"...we all know that, but we are called to go make a disciple...followers, so how many did you help start on that walk? Those who were once dead in transgression but are now alive in Christ because you were obedient to the call.

[Randy McRoberts]

I'll leave it up to God to count.

[Luke Oakes]

I am excited because I am marrying a couple in June and they are not yet Christians. After talking about what they wanted to accomplish in their wedding, it was decided that they were ready to accept Christ. So on March 8th, over dinner at their house, they will start that new relationship with Him. I am excited because the Lord is using me to further His kingdom. Furthermore, before the wedding, they both want to be baptized. Praise the Lord.

[Dale Cozby]

Well, judging at the number of profession of faiths we have in our churches in the western world we aren't going to be counting very high anyway.

It is a joy though when someone comes to you and thanks you for being instrumental in thier salvation process.

I mean many of us preach the word and count heads, but that isn't what I am talking about. Most people get uncomfortable with this because they know they haven't led anyone to Christ, ever. Mentoring, discipling, winning, whatever you call it....we don't want a report card on it and we don't want to grade ourself either; too much accountability for most.

Most of us are less than intentional when it comes to helping others come to faith in Jesus, more like accidental at best.

Isn't "intentionally missional" something we are supposed to be? What does that mean if it does not include peoples salvation?

[BJ Keeter]

between 0 - 100 ... i think

"Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

[Luke Oakes]

Do not judge, and you will not be judged.

A little accountability is not judging. God commands us to love one another. The greatest gift we can give “in love” is the gift of Christ. Therefore it is good to challenge the love of a Christian by asking questions like this one. Not that you need to proclaim the answer to the world, but to personally reflect on where you are and what you are doing for Christ. We have to separate “accountability” from “judging”. Accountability allows us to be open about our lives to other Christians who care about our spirituality, while judging is a selfish act of the heart.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Is this for real?

Start me a thread where we can tell the stories of individuals, and I'd love to see it and read them and even contribute.

But this "how many can you count" is not for me.

[BJ Keeter]

A little accountability is not judging... We have to separate “accountability” from “judging”. Accountability allows us to be open about our lives to other Christians who care about our spirituality

what i meant was i dont really know who is a chirstian and who isnt, and i dont like saying someone isnt.

but i do want to be accountable- so i will tell you that i am doing my very best look like Jesus and to make disciples. yet i am aware that there is still more i that i can do.

i have a blog about this at www.myspace.com/bjkeeter

[Scott Hilton]

I wonder if we made a poll about how many people we have shunned and turned away from Christ and His family if anyone would take accountability for that count?

[Dale Cozby]

I wonder if we made a poll about how many people we have shunned and turned away from Christ and His family if anyone would take accountability for that count?
People we have shunned? Hmmm.....they probably wouldn't come and tell you if you did...they would tell others. But if you helped someone find faith......that they might come and share with you in the form of a thank you.

Reference the Parable of the Talents: The only one grumbling about accounting for things was the one who did nothing.

[Scott Hilton]

People we have shunned? Hmmm.....they probably wouldn't come and tell you if you did...they would tell others. But if you helped someone find faith......that they might come and share with you in the form of a thank you.

Reference the Parable of the Talents: The only one grumbling about accounting for things was the one who did nothing.
Tell ya what Dale, If I can raise my daughter to love the Lord and have a relationship with Him, I will feel completely blessed.

Its not about accounting, if you bring one and shun one, your count is zero in the accounting sense.

[Dale Cozby]

Tell ya what Dale, If I can raise my daughter to love the Lord and have a relationship with Him, I will feel completely blessed.

Its not about accounting, if you bring one and shun one, your count is zero in the accounting sense.

Why are you so negative? Why so much talk about shunning? How do you get that from being excited about helping others to faith in Christ?

[Dale Cozby]

I think I need to add a further explanation here.

There have been times when I have felt like all the effort and love i have poured into someone went for nothing. Prayers, fasting, giving, helping. sharing, loving crying and then in the end they use thier freewill to turn and walk away and follow thier own carnal desires.

There have been times of drought where it seems like God isn't using me adn I begin to despair a bit at the lack of fruit in my life.

I have found that when I look back at the whole of my efforts to serve my Lord and remember people who I have helped find faith and then begin to see how many that is then the dark clouds of the present seem to part.

Sure there are times when I think I haven't done enough. But like Scott said: if I can raise my kids to know the Lord I will have succeeded.
But it is still a pleasant thought to remember those who I have helped and they become inspiration to keep planting seed in a dry rock hard field during a drought expecting a harvest. Knowing that God is the one who will use my feeble efforts to produce a crop in due time. I know he will because he has in the past.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

But like Scott said: if I can raise my kids to know the Lord I will have succeeded.

Yes, what a great enhancement of the Kingdom it is when children follow the Lord of their parents. "If our children follow the Lord, we've led them well."

But I think we need to carefully note that the inverse is not necessarily true - "If our children don't follow the Lord, we have not led them well."

[Scott Hilton]

Well, judging at the number of profession of faiths we have in our churches in the western world we aren't going to be counting very high anyway.

I mean many of us preach the word and count heads, but that isn't what I am talking about. Most people get uncomfortable with this because they know they haven't led anyone to Christ, ever. Mentoring, discipling, winning, whatever you call it....we don't want a report card on it and we don't want to grade ourself either; too much accountability for most.


Dale,

I apologize for coming off negative, the numbers game to me completely misses the point of loving others. It doesn't sit right to me in the first place. God knows our seeds, we don't and I don't think we should be concerned with a "score". Like Jeremy said, if you have stories about people who you were highly involved with coming to the Lord, please share them. That my heart can get excited about, but numbers? Nope.

I quoted some comments above, I believe those are what helped me into a negative vibe on this thread as well. When truly being accountable we not only have to consider how we are helping the kingdom, but where we may be giving a bad witness of His glory as well.

As someone who grew up a rocker, with long hair I got very used to just being judged by appearance. By those in the church and out. That had a very negative affect on me and I believe played a big part in me not wanting to hear anything about Christ when I was in my 20's. If I was put in a compartment when I had long hair, why would I be different when I had short? I was the same guy.

The word accountability must take in affect all aspects of what we are looking at and when you stated what you did above, I saw missing aspects.

I apologize again, since I probably took things out of context and meaning from what you said. May the Lord bless your day and heart.

Scott

[Ian Gentles]

I am with those who wont count. I leave such things to the Lord, I serve, He saves!

[Mike Schutz]

While I am uncomfortable with the "win" language, I am attempting to take this in the manner that i know it was intended by my good brother.

I still can't answer the question.

As a pastor, I have the opportunity to pray with a lot of folks, and often am asked by someone to come into a relationship or conversation as the relationship has helped a person reach a point of personal decision. Other times I am involved from the beginning.

I don't think that there is any way I can know the influence I have had.

I do know that when I was doing full time counseling, there were many times when I was able to sit back and think, "Where did those words come from? I'm not that good as a therapist. God intervened. Amen!"

Anyway, its never me. It's always God. I am just happy when I get to be in the room when God and a person get together!

[Scott Sherwood]

I am excited because I am marrying a couple in June and they are not yet Christians. After talking about what they wanted to accomplish in their wedding, it was decided that they were ready to accept Christ. So on March 8th, over dinner at their house, they will start that new relationship with Him. I am excited because the Lord is using me to further His kingdom. Furthermore, before the wedding, they both want to be baptized. Praise the Lord.

A cleverly worded critique about the church's ineffectiveness will pull down a ton of thanks on this board, but a testimony about two more names being added to the book of life through the ministry of our churches is left largely uncelebrated!

I say, congratulations Luke! And thank you Lord!!! Your testimony both convicts and inspires me. Thank you.

I am reminded of the congregant who told Dwight Moody that she didn't like how he did evangelism. He said, "I don't either. How do you do it." She answered, "I don't." DLM said "Then I like the way I do it better than the way you do it."

Can numbers become a substitue for stewardship of souls? Sure. Can you be a good steward of souls without keeping track of them? Absolutely not.

We may need to make some serious changes to what we count in the church, but I absolutely believe that the spirit and subject matter of this poll are RIGHT ON.

Yes, I grew up in the 70's.

[Steven Martinez]

I find the reaction on this thread to be most bizare. Many people have stated that it is not them but God who does the work. I find this interesting since the poll question makes that distinction already. The poll question states that God uses us as a tool in leading them to the Lord. Why is this controversal? I understand that many are uncomfortable with the idea of numbers. But do we forget who those numbers represent? Why did the Gospels include the numbers of people that were being reached by Jesus? Why does Acts state the number of converts numerous times? Why because numbers by their defintion are symbolic. If I say that I have 1 child, I am not lowering his value. I am simply stating a fact.
I think that the number of people that are brought to the Lord is in important fact that we should share with each other to encourage and uplift the Body. My goal in ministry is never about comparing my numbers but it does involve sharing the victories of Jesus. I just filled out my Elder report for assembly and there are only two stats they want to know: How many times did I preach? How many times did I call someone? My opinion is that they should include more questions. How many relationships did you build this year? How many relationships have grown in your ministry? How many people are you praying for? How many people have grown in Christ under your guidence?

I think that many of us (myself included) should give our Church the benefit of the doubt when we report statistics. When I recieve a newsletter from the Kansas City Rescue Mission in regards to how many men they have served a meal to or how many of them have completed their program, I do not get offended and I am sure most of us would say "Amen" and "Praise God." The numbers represent the effectiveness of our love. Kevin Mannoia of APU believes that there are three areas of growth in the Church: Growth in the spiritual help of the congregation; growth in the effectiveness of the community's needs; growth of people from the community into the church (numerical growth). He then goes on to say that we can only truly hope to have numerical growth when we make sure that growth occurs in the other areas. Our numbers should be a representation of these two areas of growth in our churches. In my vast 2.5 years of experience I have seen that when the church serves the needs of both the church and community that church has always grown. The simple truth is this. If one out of every two Nazarenes could lead someone to the Lord this year we could grow the Church by 850,000! That is 850,000 people who have hope in Christ and all the privalages of being a son/daughter of the Kingdom. Looking at the poll, it seems that more than half of us are doing that already. Why bicker when we should celebrate? Isn't that what Heaven does when one who is lost becomes found?

[Steven Martinez]

By the way I did not grow up in the 70s.. that would make me old. :eek:
By the way, anyone older than me (born 1980) is officially old. ;p

[Mike Schutz]

Steven,
I am not bickering.
I can answer how many folks came to the Lord under the ministry of our church in the last year.
I can answer how many I have prayed with as they accepted the saving grace of the Lord.
I can answer how many I have prayed with as they decided to allow God's sanctifying work to take hold of their life.
I can answer how many men I am discipling, and how many men those men are discipling.
I can answer how many folks I am praying for.

I know these things because there are days when I wonder, "Am I a useful servant at all," and then I remember these folks. I consider those people and their lives to be a great blessing and every person is incredibly important. However, I consider my need to remember the numbers as a sign of my spiritual immaturity. Maybe for others those numbers are not that, but for me they are.

It's like the story of the young lifeguard who bragged, "I've saved five people from drowning, and its only my first month on the job." He then turned to the older lifeguard. "How many have you saved, old man."
The older lifeguard replied, "Not enough."

I just cannot say, or I am uncomfortable declaring, how many for whom I have been the "primary tool" as the question asks. I don't know.

[Dale Cozby]

While I am uncomfortable with the "win" language

VI. Atonement
6. We believe that Jesus Christ, by His sufferings, by the shedding of His own blood, and by His death on the Cross, made a full atonement for all human sin, and that this Atonement is the only ground of salvation, and that it is sufficient for every individual of Adam’s race. The Atonement is graciously efficacious for the salvation of the irresponsible and for the children in innocency but is efficacious for the salvation of those who reach the age of responsibility only when they repent and believe.

In view of this article of faith and the highlighted wording, if the word "win" isn't a good term to use, and my "helping others to faith in Christ" is not sufficient, could you help me with how to descibe when a person comes to the place of repentence and belief that is salvation? What are "comfortable" terms to use now?

On a side note: I have difficultly with the idea that a person does not know if they are saved or not. There is to be a line of demarcation between "dead in sin" and "alive in Christ' right? If "lost" and "saved' language is no longer acceptable how should we define our own soul if we were a "goat" and not a "sheep"? As the hymn says, "I once was lost, but now am found.
Was blind, but now I see."

But that is another topic I think.

if you have stories about people who you were highly involved with coming to the Lord, please share them. The difficultly is always how to share a persons story without betraying a trust in the process. Even changing names isn't enough as a person can readily see themselves in the story and we should be careful of giving testimony for another's walk from dark to light. But I can share a one here:

An 11 yr old child we use to pick up and bring to church, who came to know the Lord early, for years prayed for her divorced parents to come to the Lord and to be reunited. Both now lived with other "significant others" and were seperated by 1600 miles. But her childlike faith, that one day her parents would know the Lord, never dimmed and we prayed on.

Over the course of the years in bringing this sweet kid to church, we had her mom go to a special event with us in which at the end she prayed for God's forgiveness and salvation, but she still had a life in disorder. One step at a time, she began to change in accordance with her repentence. Then one day we found out her ex-husband we had been praying for 1600 miles away also had repented and had begun to attend church. So after almost 10 years of prayers with this young lady and her mom the miracle happened that she prayed about. Her parents both accepted the Lord AND were rejoined together as a family. Mom and her kids moved to this far away state and joined thier dad as a whole family and began to attend church together after more than 11 years of divorce.

[Dale Cozby]

I know these things because there are days when I wonder, "Am I a useful servant at all," and then I remember these folks. I consider those people and their lives to be a great blessing and every person is incredibly important. yes, this is what I experience too.

And if we add in Scott's idea of how many people we have "shunned" or turned away by our own immaturity/ignorance then we have a net effect of plus and minus. I do actually consider it a bit crass to think in those terms, but sometimes after a particularly hard failure for the seed to take(at least in my mind) it is good to remember that I don't fail all the time.

Jesus told the religious leaders ""Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit"
Sometimes we need to take inventory of our personal actions to see if we are producing or not. I remember Larry Dennis once saying he was about to drop his health club membership until he got convicted about it. The health club was the only place where he could interact with unchurched, unsaved people personally since all his "job" involved working with church people.

[Randy McRoberts]

As far as I'm concerned, you may as well poll for how many eggs we have eaten in the last year.

It's not that evangelism isn't important. It's that it is not the proper subject of a poll. There are too many things we don't know to answer the question.

I've known many people who were like the seeds sown among the thorns. Maybe they got saved, but they didn't last long. Do you count those?

If you do, it's a meaningless number. If you don't, you won't have much to brag about. How long does a person has to stay saved to count? A week? A year?

So, why count at all?

And how many points do I get as a Sunday School teacher who faithfully teaches the Bible, then one of my class members goes to the altar and the pastor prays with him? Do we split the points? Or does the pastor get the points because he was the one who prayed with him?

[Steven Martinez]

Steven,
I am not bickering.
Never said you were. In fact, I think that you are one of the most positive people on NazNet. I have no idea why you believed that was directed at you. Your posts in this thread is one of searching. You are simply saying that you have difficulty answering the question. I can respect that. Saying I do not know is different than saying I wont.
Personally, I think we can know somewhat when one grows in Christ under the guidence of our ministry. Just like a teacher will know when their students understand and grasp the lesson being taught.
I am glad that you do know the answer the questions you posted. In fact, I believe that most pastors do know those numbers. I feel that I know those numbers as well. I was simply stating that I wish our Church was interested in knowing those too.

[Mike Schutz]

In view of this article of faith and the highlighted wording, if the word "win" isn't a good term to use, and my "helping others to faith in Christ" is not sufficient, could you help me with how to descibe when a person comes to the place of repentence and belief that is salvation? What are "comfortable" terms to use now?

Dale,
I don't think that the language of our statement on the Atonement, that the word "Win" with the recipient as the object of my work is necessary.
As I said somewhere else, I invite people to join me on the purposeful journey of faith by accepting God's love and becoming a disciple of Jesus. As it would seem strange and even bit insulting to tell them that I am trying to "win" them,
I prefer not to use that language.

As to the necessity for assurance of salvation, I agree.

[Mike Schutz]

Sometimes we need to take inventory of our personal actions to see if we are producing or not. I remember Larry Dennis once saying he was about to drop his health club membership until he got convicted about it. The health club was the only place where he could interact with unchurched, unsaved people personally since all his "job" involved working with church people.

Gosh that Larry Dennis.

Almost everything he says convicts me!

[Scott Sherwood]

I've known many people who were like the seeds sown among the thorns. Maybe they got saved, but they didn't last long. Do you count those?



There's something that would be good to count and to celebrate. How many people said "no" this year to your invitation to be saved? The gospel presented with permission, without pressure, and in love is always a victory to be celebrated. If the "Engel Scale" is anywhere near valid, it takes a few hearings to get to "yes."

We encourage our people with this: that the most effective evangelists are the ones who are willing to hear "no" most often.

Not to turn this into a seminar, but we often make the mistake of not asking question in a way that leads to an answer. My children's ministry recruitment efforts started bearing much more fruit when I learned to present the opportunity, ask a yes/no question and wait for a response. Ask the question. Wait for an answer. It is in that space that we die a thousand deaths and in that same space that the other person has the emotional and mental space to make a decision. Too many of us don't have an answer to this poll question because we so seldom call the question. . . and wait for an answer.

[David Rhone]

Dale--

I think you hit a nerve.

[Randy McRoberts]

People who believe that evangelism is the most important thing are usually smug toward those who do other things in the church. I see that hasn't changed in this thread.

[Dale Cozby]

Dale--

I think you hit a nerve.
I was trying.;)

I don't think that ....the word "Win" with the recipient as the object of my work is necessary
I think the word has a much fuller definition available to us than the one you are assigning it.

If win is used as a noun that means: "a victory, as in a game or horse race." or "the position of the competitor who comes in first" Then I agree. but there are more definitions of the word being used as a verb than a noun.

Win:
1: to succeed by striving or effort
2: to overcome an adversary( I suppose death and hell might be considered the adversary)to succeed in reaching (a place, condition, etc.), esp. by great effort: (I think the condition is to "win" them over to Christ. as in a condition of faith in Him)
3: to get by effort, as through labor
4: to gain the consent or support of; persuade

I think these meanings are in line with the use much better and would be why the NIV translates Paul in several places using the word "win" to identify the effort to persuade others to faith.
see 1 Corinthians 9:19-22 and also 1 Thessalonians 4:11-13

But the use of one word is just semantics to the real issue of "Winning" or helping a person to the place of accepting the message of the Gospel: Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

This poll isn't about seeing how many notches we can carve in our leather bound Bible, like some Bible toting gunslinger. Or some pilot in a dogfight putting a flag on his plane to mark his kills. Sadly some seem to think it is.

I consider it an opportunity for Naznetters to stand up and show we are making a difference in peoples lives that is everlasting.

[Dale Cozby]

People who believe that evangelism is the most important thing are usually smug toward those who do other things in the church. I see that hasn't changed in this thread.

No one is looking down on anyone here brother.
Hey, I cleaned toliets in church for years....did people look down on me for it? Somebody has to do it.
But that doesn't mean we look down on those who can't clean a toliet as good as ourselves. But aren't you glad someone else is doing it?

Maybe we should have a poll about how many toliets we have scubbed at church. Would that be offensive? I don't think you would say People who believe clean toliets is the most important thing are usually smug toward those who do other things in the church.

Concerning evangelism. Yes it is the most important thing we do and I pray I will get better at it, but the poll is about being the primary instrument not the final instrument in the process of salvation. Showing we ALL have a place in the process, but sometimes we know or someone tells us we are the main reason they accepted Jesus. By our example, or love, our help and yes, maybe because we asked them to make a decision.

"So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together and said, "It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to wait on tables." I don't think they were being smug... I just think they were keeping the most important thing the most important thing. Judging from the numbers in our reports in the western church we seem to have forgotten that.

[Steven Martinez]

I thought this post would be helpful to some. I originally posted it in another thread but it seems to be important here as well
http://www.naznet.com/community/showthread.php?p=176776#post176776

[Scott Hilton]

The difficultly is always how to share a persons story without betraying a trust in the process. Even changing names isn't enough as a person can readily see themselves in the story and we should be careful of giving testimony for another's walk from dark to light. But I can share a one here:

An 11 yr old child we use to pick up and bring to church, who came to know the Lord early, for years prayed for her divorced parents to come to the Lord and to be reunited. Both now lived with other "significant others" and were seperated by 1600 miles. But her childlike faith, that one day her parents would know the Lord, never dimmed and we prayed on.

Over the course of the years in bringing this sweet kid to church, we had her mom go to a special event with us in which at the end she prayed for God's forgiveness and salvation, but she still had a life in disorder. One step at a time, she began to change in accordance with her repentence. Then one day we found out her ex-husband we had been praying for 1600 miles away also had repented and had begun to attend church. So after almost 10 years of prayers with this young lady and her mom the miracle happened that she prayed about. Her parents both accepted the Lord AND were rejoined together as a family. Mom and her kids moved to this far away state and joined thier dad as a whole family and began to attend church together after more than 11 years of divorce.
Dale,

Thank you for that and I understand about being careful about bringing a story of a real person on a message board. However, I feel it is just as.....unfaithful? to equate their very real story to a number as well. I am sure I am not smart enough to get your point of "trying to hit a nerve" in this thread, so I will let this be it for my part.

I can tell you that my wife was probably the most recognizable person to bringing me to the Lord, but I might say that because she was one of the last ones involved. I have a long list of people who have done things through my life to show me the love of the Lord, so when it comes down to honestly analyzing who was the "primary" person, I feel I would be doing a disservice to others who have done their part in the work of the Lord.

I also have issues with the numbers game, because of my experience in the SBC church. They were about getting the butts in the doors, but not about actually helping them to understand what this relationship was supposed to be like and the true meaning of being a part of the body. I think it is all of our parts to have an answer for our faith, but it is not for all of us to be a great evangelist. The other part of the command is to make disciples of them, not just leave them at the doorstep.

I hope you are blessed by whatever nerve you were looking to hit in this thread, cuz I don't get it in the framework of how it was done. As I said, I am sure the fault lies on me for that.

blessings
Scott

[Gina Stevenson]

By the way I did not grow up in the 70s.. that would make me old. :eek:
By the way, anyone older than me (born 1980) is officially old. ;p

Well, :p right back atcha, Steven! So, you're 27-28. Well, I'm 29 & holding. No one's business how long I've been "holding," but many on this board know it's been a good while [sort of like Jack Benny's being 39 forever]. :laughing

We encourage our people with this: that the most effective evangelists are the ones who are willing to hear "no" most often.

Actually, have heard this one re sales ... but then isn't there a book out there already that's been around forever called something like, "The Greatest Salesman in the World" ... and it's not actually re product selling? [Og Mandino maybe authored it; could go look this up, but am writing it off the top of my head, amazed I can even recall this much by sheer memory. OK, OK! I will go look it up ... BRB!! ;)]. Wow! Guess that book made an impression ... after reading it a few decades ago [may have given it a cursory glance once since, too], here 'tis:

http://books.google.com/books?id=E-LXAQAACAAJ&dq=Og+Mandino&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Og+Mandino%22%2Bbooks&btnG=Google+Search&sa=X&oi=print&ct=result&cd=2&cad=author-navigational (http://books.google.com/books?id=E-LXAQAACAAJ&dq=Og+Mandino&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Og+Mandino%22%2Bbooks&btnG=Google+Search&sa=X&oi=print&ct=result&cd=2&cad=author-navigational)

While sales organizations may use it for motivational purposes, can't help but feel it has---and was intentional meant to have---a deeper meaning re the most precious "commodity."

Too many of us don't have an answer to this poll question because we so seldom call the question. . . and wait for an answer.

Think you're on to something, tho' for some that question seems to come easier than for others ... maybe those with that "gift of evangelism(?)," tho' all of us are commissioned to "go."

OOPS! Had to come back, b/c I failed to mention something I was going to before beginning this post ... about how some of us seem to be more used to pull someone back into the fold who might be wandering ... or used to encourage someone on the verge of so doing [referred to in Scripture as "exhortation"]. A different gift than bold outright evangelism ... bringing someone to Christ initially ... but useful ... and something I've felt has gotten waylaid a bit the last several years, mostly, via too much stuff going on that's put me into sheer survival mode. [think sometimes our enemy, if he can't take us totally down, will sap enough of our energy from things we've been doing to render us less useful for a season---guess there's a prayer request in here somewhere, too].

[David Rhone]

George Barna has released some staggering stats about "evangelical" believers on this subject. According to his research, fewer than 2% of Christians ever lead someone else to the Lord and fewer than 5% share their faith on any regular basis. While this research is not specific to Nazarenes, we are certainly included in it. It almost seems that once we are saved and become entrenched in our churches we assume that what Jesus did for us should be kept a secret.

In The Master's Plan, it's a blast to watch brand-new Christians at work. These folks, who still know lots of people in "the world" adopt a 1st Peter 3:15 lifestyle and are anxious to tell others how Christ has changed their lives.

[Mamie White]

Really I don't think any of us know how many we have influenced coming to the Lord. Because some of us plant the seed, some water and then someone reaps the harvest. It takes all of these to bring one to the Lord.
I don't think the one who gathered the harvest will get anymore credit than the one who planted the seed or watered. It just looks as if they are the successful one in the eyes of man. Sometimes the one planting the seed works harder than the one harvesting. That person has to till the ground and sometimes the ground is very hard when there has been no rain. The ground also has a lot of weeds that has to be pulled before planting.
If the seed has not been planted there is no need to water and there sure will not be a harvest.

I always liked the song "We'll Work Till Jesus Comes" and the work is getting harder.

[Kevin Rector]

Sometimes the one planting the seed works harder than the one harvesting.

John 4:38 seems to echo this idea. The "hard work" is the sowing of the seed, the living of consistent Christian witness in love, compassion, and mercy.

[Gina Stevenson]

Really I don't think any of us know how many we have influenced coming to the Lord. Because some of us plant the seed, some water and then someone reaps the harvest. It takes all of these to bring one to the Lord ................

Sometimes the one planting the seed works harder than the one harvesting ................ [yet] If the seed has not been planted there is no need to water and there sure will not be a harvest ................

John 4:38 seems to echo this idea. The "hard work" is the sowing of the seed, the living of consistent Christian witness in love, compassion, and mercy.

Yes, think Mamie's right ... can't always know for sure, and sowing seed is a repetitive thing, demanding consistency most of the time.

[Dale Cozby]

Yes, we all work together in the process, but sometimes we plant, water, till, and harvest in due time. When that occurs it is a time of great rejoicing.

Seems I spend 20 times as much time planting, watering, and tilling as harvesting though. I always rejoice when someone I have worked with often for years finally comes to the Lord, even when I wasn't there when it happened.

I think it was Jack Stone that told a story about pastoring in Yuma AZ and going out one summer door to door inviting kids to VBS. This one family that had a lot of kids he approached saw how hot he was and invited him inside for some ice tea and for a few minutes he visited with them and told them a little about the CoN. They said they would come to VBS but never showed.


12 years later as General Assmebly a young man walked up to him and introduced himself as the young man he met that day in Yuma. Seems his family moved that week to another town, but because he had been so nice they decided to check out the CoN in that town. They went, liked it, became attenders, got saved, He got called into ministry and was now attending PLNU majoring in religion.

All because of a few minutes of seed planting 12 years ago.

We just never know for sure the effect we might have. BUT sometimes we do.