Collective Salvation

[Larry Parsons]

Does anyone Know anything about collective salvation that our presindent is talking about when he speaking to college students. Do you think that he made mean if one who is born in a Chistian home or in Christian culture that you are saved?
Thanks
Larry

[Ryan Scott]

Does anyone Know anything about collective salvation that our presindent is talking about when he speaking to college students. Do you think that he made mean if one who is born in a Chistian home or in Christian culture that you are saved?

I haven't seen the comments. Could you provide a link?

[Ryan Plott]

Does anyone Know anything about collective salvation that our presindent is talking about when he speaking to college students. Do you think that he made mean if one who is born in a Chistian home or in Christian culture that you are saved?
Thanks
Larry

From what I understood of it Larry, it seems that the president is suggesting he believes his own salvation depends on whether he works to make sure that salvation is extended to his community also. Not altogether an un-redeemable idea,

Granted, I may be wrong on what he's trying to get across. Trying to find a way past all the spinning of secondary news sources makes me a bit dizzy.

[Kelly R Davis]

I think that it is an explanation for salvation that is not a personal decision of faith but rather assumed because one is doing good. Sounds like cheap grace not costly grace.

Obama said this in 2008…

while standing in for Senator Edward Kennedy and delivering a commencement address at Wesleyan University , Obama urged the graduates to look past material gains and work for the “collective salvation” of the United States.

He said that if he is elected he will call upon the students and the nation to

“be unified in service to a greater good. I intend to make it a cause of my presidency.”

The man who has nice suits and a big house, told them, “You can take your diploma, walk off this stage and chase only after the big house and the nice suits and all the other things that our money culture says you should buy.

[Bob Hunter]

I wonder if his comments are influenced by some version of liberation theology? Obama is said to have some sympathy for Black Liberation theology. I wouldn't exactly dismiss the virtues of collective salvation, it is better than the alternative! Anarchy? Social stratification? Radical individualism? Hedonism? Take your pick...

[Ryan Scott]

I still haven't found the comments that started this thread and I can't speak to Obama's thoughts when he mentioned collective salvation, but it is very real. Jesus Christ died on the cross to save the world. Praise the Lord for collective salvation.

[Kelly R Davis]

Ryan, Your a bright guy. Don't be fooled by verbage that sounds Christian but is far removed. Obama is not interested strengthening our republic nor linking a value statement with the Christian faith. His salvation is based upon his desperate attempt to move our great nation toward socialism. Just look at his past experience before being elected. Like many politicians, he is looking for the dollar and the lights.

[Andy Mistak]

Ryan, Your a bright guy. Don't be fooled by verbage that sounds Christian but is far removed. Obama is not interested strengthening our republic nor linking a value statement with the Christian faith. His salvation is based upon his desperate attempt to move our great nation toward socialism. Just look at his past experience before being elected. Like many politicians, he is looking for the dollar and the lights.

I think it's inappropriate to de-christianize people whose politics we disagree with. We're all capable of basic civility.

[Hal Paul]

Ryan, Your a bright guy. Don't be fooled by verbage that sounds Christian but is far removed. Obama is not interested strengthening our republic nor linking a value statement with the Christian faith. His salvation is based upon his desperate attempt to move our great nation toward socialism. Just look at his past experience before being elected. Like many politicians, he is looking for the dollar and the lights.

Kelly, I think you need to reread Ryan's post. He isn't talking about President Obama's view on collective salvation, he stated very clearly he can't speak to the President's view because he hasn't seen the quote in it's original context.

As I read Ryan's post, I see that he's talking about his personal view of collective salvation, it's the salvation that we receive through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. The collective is those of us who receive salvation through Christ, not some social/political idea that at this time, we can only suppose is what President Obama meant.

[Rich Schmidt]

Here are a couple of links:

Transcript of his remarks at Wesleyan University commencement, May 25, 2008 (when he filled in for Ted Kennedy)
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gGBPzl

Apparently this is a recurring theme in his commencement addresses. Googling found this collection of links, though the ones from his Senate days are no longer online: http://www.aipnews.com/talk/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=187

Here's a snippet of context from his Wesleyan University speech:


But I also began to realize that I wasn’t just helping other people. Through service, I found a community that embraced me; citizenship that was meaningful; the direction I’d been seeking. Through service, I discovered how my own improbable story fit into the larger story of America.

Each of you will have the chance to make your own discovery in the years to come. And I say “chance” because you won’t have to take it. There’s no community service requirement in the real world; no one forcing you to care. You can take your diploma, walk off this stage, and chase only after the big house and the nice suits and all the other things that our money culture says you should by. You can choose to narrow your concerns and live your life in a way that tries to keep your story separate from America’s.

But I hope you don’t. Not because you have an obligation to those who are less fortunate, though you do have that obligation. Not because you have a debt to all those who helped you get here, though you do have that debt.

It’s because you have an obligation to yourself. Because our individual salvation depends on collective salvation. Because thinking only about yourself, fulfilling your immediate wants and needs, betrays a poverty of ambition. Because it’s only when you hitch your wagon to something larger than yourself that you realize your true potential and discover the role you’ll play in writing the next great chapter in America’s story

There are so many ways to serve and so much need at this defining moment in our history. You don’t have to be a community organizer or do something crazy like run for President. Right here at Wesleyan, many of you have already volunteered at local schools, contributed to United Way, and even started a program that brings fresh produce to needy families in the area. One hundred and sixty-four graduates of this school have joined the Peace Corps since 2001, and I’m especially proud that two of you are about to leave for my father’s homeland of Kenya to bring alternative sources of energy to impoverished areas.

I ask you to seek these opportunities when you leave here, because the future of this country – your future – depends on it. ...

In context, it doesn't sound like he's talking about salvation in terms of being saved from sin, restored to right relationship with God, etc. It sounds like he's talking about not looking out only for your own interests but also for the interests of others.

I'm not familiar enough with the phrase to know where Obama gets it. But my impression from skimming that commencement address was that he wasn't intending it as a theological/doctrinal statement.

[Ryan Scott]

I think he, like lots of politicians, likes to couch a gospel message in non-sectarian context, which sort of ruins the statement as both gospel and common sense. Lots of good, well meaning Christians enter politics with the best of intentions - it's just not possible to serve both God and Mammon.

[Hal Paul]

But I also began to realize that I wasn’t just helping other people. Through service, I found a community that embraced me; citizenship that was meaningful; the direction I’d been seeking. Through service, I discovered how my own improbable story fit into the larger story of America.

Each of you will have the chance to make your own discovery in the years to come. And I say “chance” because you won’t have to take it. There’s no community service requirement in the real world; no one forcing you to care. You can take your diploma, walk off this stage, and chase only after the big house and the nice suits and all the other things that our money culture says you should by. You can choose to narrow your concerns and live your life in a way that tries to keep your story separate from America’s.

But I hope you don’t. Not because you have an obligation to those who are less fortunate, though you do have that obligation. Not because you have a debt to all those who helped you get here, though you do have that debt.

It’s because you have an obligation to yourself. Because our individual salvation depends on collective salvation. Because thinking only about yourself, fulfilling your immediate wants and needs, betrays a poverty of ambition. Because it’s only when you hitch your wagon to something larger than yourself that you realize your true potential and discover the role you’ll play in writing the next great chapter in America’s story

There are so many ways to serve and so much need at this defining moment in our history. You don’t have to be a community organizer or do something crazy like run for President. Right here at Wesleyan, many of you have already volunteered at local schools, contributed to United Way, and even started a program that brings fresh produce to needy families in the area. One hundred and sixty-four graduates of this school have joined the Peace Corps since 2001, and I’m especially proud that two of you are about to leave for my father’s homeland of Kenya to bring alternative sources of energy to impoverished areas.

I had a battalion commander several years ago who frequently said that soldiers join the Army because they want to serve something larger than themselves and they wanted to do so in a tangible way. It was during a time and in a unit where we didn't have a lot of opportunity to go places and do things, but he did everything he could to ensure his soldiers were able to go places and work on projects that fulfilled that core motivation. During his tenure our battalion went from a unit with one of the lowest reenlistment rates in our command to one of the highest. He's been promoted twice since then and is now a Brigadier General.

[Charles W Christian]

So, he's not talking about "eternal salvation" at all.... Rather, he means the need for us to work for the good of the community! Sounds biblical to me.

As Benjamin Franklin said: "We must all hang together...or we will surely all hang separately!" :D

Just because Ben had some nice suits, Kelly, I hope you won't discount him. ;-)

CWC

[John Kennedy]

Obama missed a golden opportunity to really muddy the water by failing to inovke the Wesley quote about no holiness but social holiness........