Keith Drury insists oft-misused Wesley quote be put back into context.

[Scott Sherwood]

http://www.drurywriting.com/keith/no%20holiness%20but%20social%20Holiness.htm

Wesley said it. "There is no holiness but social holiness." Those who use it to sanction social action do so with good intentions and Wesley would surely be proud of most of their good works. I don't hear Dr. Drury condemning those who use it this way, but merely pointing out their well-intended error.

[George Wallace]

The link just opens Facebook and nothing else?

[Ryan Plott]

It seems to me that perhaps it's not taken completely out of context as Drury seems to suggest. Rather, this quote is used to justify actions that are a continuation and embodiment of what Wesley's idea of "No holiness but social holiness" seeks to communicate. If we try to be an instrument of God's redemptive work to the world through our communitites then inevitably that will lead to social expressions of charity. The two events, the quote and its context as well as its praxis in the Christian community are linked in my mind. To take one out of the context of the other would be to remove the legitimacy of both.

To me, the issue wouldn't be whether we are taking the quote out of context and falsely legitimizing "social work". For me it would be a measure to help us check our motivations and reasons for why we are going about doing the work we are doing. Are we doing them just because that is the message our modern-day culture values in religion and in order to gain creedence with that culture we do what they want us to, or are we doing it because we believe we are the embodiment of Christ to the world? Perhaps we should just unpack the verbal shorthand of "No holiness but social holiness" a bit more while we drill wells or give food.(Explain why we engage in these activities, how we are to do them, when we should do them, etc.)

I agree with Drury that drilling wells isn't the point of Christianity and with what he says Wesley was talking about with social holiness, but I believe Wesley would agree that those actions of drilling wells and opening food pantries would be an exemplary action in what this community-driven holiness seeks to do. The practice of social holiness in our modern day is not completely out of context with what Wesley was saying, it's a result of that belief and teaching.

[Jon Bemis]

http://www.drurywriting.com/keith/no%20holiness%20but%20social%20Holiness.htm

Wesley said it. "There is no holiness but social holiness." Those who use it to sanction social action do so with good intentions and Wesley would surely be proud of most of their good works. I don't hear Dr. Drury condemning those who use it this way, but merely pointing out their well-intended error.

I can't begin to count how many times I have heard that quote used to compel (maybe even guilt) folks into social action. Not that our social responsibility isn't real, it's just that it doesn't appear that is what Wesley was saying in that case.

[Billy Cox]

I can't begin to count how many times I have heard that quote used to compel (maybe even guilt) folks into social action. Not that our social responsibility isn't real, it's just that it doesn't appear that is what Wesley was saying in that case.

Excellent!! Now we can use the Wesley quote to guilt people into improving their church attendance. Our congregations are becoming 'Hebrews 10:25 resistant' and we need a new regimen to keep people faithful. :)

[Billy Cox]

http://www.drurywriting.com/keith/no%20holiness%20but%20social%20Holiness.htm

Wesley said it. "There is no holiness but social holiness." Those who use it to sanction social action do so with good intentions and Wesley would surely be proud of most of their good works. I don't hear Dr. Drury condemning those who use it this way, but merely pointing out their well-intended error.

I had always been dubious that the Wesley quote was a call to social action, so I appreciate the more complete explanation.

[Charles W Christian]

The need for the community of faith in the promotion of holiness is also in need of emphasis, so either way, we get to make people uncomfortable with the quote! :D

Also, Billy -- there are tons of places in Wesley where social action is called for, even if that quote is not quite contextually the place to begin.

CWC

[Billy Cox]

The need for the community of faith in the promotion of holiness is also in need of emphasis, so either way, we get to make people uncomfortable with the quote! :D

Also, Billy -- there are tons of places in Wesley where social action is called for, even if that quote is not quite contextually the place to begin.

CWC

The Wesley quote is a good sound-bite. It's a good replacement for the dusty 'lone ranger' caricature we apply to solitary Christians. It's just barely within the scope of *my* cultural literacy, and I'm almost 40. My 12 year old daughter would just look at me with that blank expression if I referred to lone ranger Christians.

[Ryan Scott]

I think he's correct in saying the quote was meant more broadly - that we need each other, we're responsible to each other and for each other. Now I don't see how this in any way contradicts the notion that social holiness involves meeting the physical needs of others.

It seems like in those traditions with strong social action components Wesley's word speak for discipleship and accountability within the Church and for those traditions with strong piety and purity components these words speak for social action and engagement. The context seems to be speaking a word of correction that people do not wish to hear - if we take these words as proof for our cause rather than a check to it, we've misread the words.

[Todd Erickson]

We might say "relational" rather than "social" today. And thus perhaps also "missional".

When we take on the Spirit of Christ within us, when Love is our law, we cannot help but serve where we see need, because we act with Christ's heart.

But we do so not because it's a good social activity, but because we are living out relationship. Which is why social justice outside of relationship tends to be empty, and making it a steady course of action drives Jesus out of that community...it has become a legalistic sacrifice, rather than a free gift of the heart.

[Steven Martinez]

Sometimes it helps if we have the entire paragraph in question:

Directly opposite to this is the gospel of Christ. Solitary religion is not to be found there. "Holy solitaries" is a phrase no more consistent with the gospel than holy adulterers. The gospel of Christ knows of no religion, but social; no holiness but social holiness. "Faith working by love" is the length and breadth and depth and height of Christian perfection. "This commandment have we from Christ, that he who loves God, love his brother also;" and that we manifest our love "by doing good unto all men; especially to them that are of the household of faith." And in truth, whosoever loveth his brethren, not in word only, but as Christ loved him, cannot but be "zealous of good works." He feels in his soul a burning, restless desire of spending and being spent for them. "My Father," will he say, "worketh hitherto, and I work." And at all possible opportunities he is, like his Master, "going about doing good."

I would have a hard time not equating the part in bold with a call to some sort of social action. Perhaps our friend mister Drury is a bit off?

[Glenn Messer]

To me this issue is never an "either/or", but a "both/and". I sometimes tell people that you can do the 'right thing' for the wrong reasons and still be measured short .... and, no, refusing to do the right thing is not an acceptable substitute.

Doing the right thing may require an attitude adjustment which sometimes can be jump started by a swift kick to the posterior regions.