McClung's Proposal Draws Response From Africa

[Scott Sherwood]

Howie Schute, the Field Strategy Coordinator for the Horn of Africa, has posted a response to Dave's proposal regarding a turnaround in the Church of the Nazarene.

I have spent time in the HOA and experienced the torrent of revival there. Howie didn't cause the revival, but he has helped the church there to ride a wave of God's moving. The magnitude of what God is doing in the HOA may be unprecedented in the history of Christianity, which makes those involved in it voices the rest of us desperately need to hear.

His response can be found here:

http://www.hoanazarene.org/HOANazarene/A_Call_to_Repentance/Entries/2008/3/28_A_Call_to_Repentance.html

[Dave McClung]

Howie Schute, the Field Strategy Coordinator for the Horn of Africa, has posted a response to Dave's proposal regarding a turnaround in the Church of the Nazarene.

I have spent time in the HOA and experienced the torrent of revival there. Howie didn't cause the revival, but he has helped the church there to ride a wave of God's moving. The magnitude of what God is doing in the HOA may be unprecedented in the history of Christianity, which makes those involved in it voices the rest of us desperately need to hear.

His response can be found here:

http://www.hoanazarene.org/HOANazarene/A_Call_to_Repentance/Entries/2008/3/28_A_Call_to_Repentance.html

I certainly agree that my proposal is aimed at the church in the U.S. because I believe that is where the change is most needed. My proposal follows the principle of "if it isn't broke, don't fix it."

I also agree that change has to start in the hearts of Nazarenes. Those who read my proposal carefully know that the only "real" proposal I made was that someone be authorized to articulate a vision for the Church of the Nazarene. The rest of the details are merely speculation concerning where such a vision might lead.

[Eric Vail]

Howie Schute, the Field Strategy Coordinator for the Horn of Africa, has posted a response to Dave's proposal regarding a turnaround in the Church of the Nazarene.

I have spent time in the HOA and experienced the torrent of revival there. Howie didn't cause the revival, but he has helped the church there to ride a wave of God's moving. The magnitude of what God is doing in the HOA may be unprecedented in the history of Christianity, which makes those involved in it voices the rest of us desperately need to hear.

His response can be found here:

http://www.hoanazarene.org/HOANazarene/A_Call_to_Repentance/Entries/2008/3/28_A_Call_to_Repentance.html

Howie's prayer for the church and call on the church is quite powerful. Part of what he is seeing in Africa with the sacrificial living is the wake-up call I had in reading some of the books I've recommended in the book reviews forum. By reading what the Gospel meant for first century Christians (e.g., in The Lost Letters of Pergamum, Acts, Cruciformity) and then the way that same pattern is alive in China (The Heavenly Man) stirs something within me for my own situation. From Howie's description of Africa, it sounds like their story is like Brother Yun's in China. I do pray that we in America will reconnect with the Gospel message in new and fresh ways; that we will reconnect with the One whose story it is. I do not despair because the Church always has been and will be God's. However, I know I have been wrestling with what it means for us to be the Body in this place. It is terrifying what that might look like and demand of me/us.

[Dave McClung]

Howie Schute, the Field Strategy Coordinator for the Horn of Africa, has posted a response to Dave's proposal regarding a turnaround in the Church of the Nazarene.

I have spent time in the HOA and experienced the torrent of revival there. Howie didn't cause the revival, but he has helped the church there to ride a wave of God's moving. The magnitude of what God is doing in the HOA may be unprecedented in the history of Christianity, which makes those involved in it voices the rest of us desperately need to hear.

His response can be found here:

http://www.hoanazarene.org/HOANazarene/A_Call_to_Repentance/Entries/2008/3/28_A_Call_to_Repentance.html

I am excited about getting to hear Howie Schute on Tuesday night. He will be speaking at the WAPAC Missionary Convention in Puyallup, WA.

Since he posted the piece mentioned above, we have exchanged several emails. I am looking forward to being able to continue our discussion.

One thing I learned early in life is to listen to those who are being successful. Clearly Howie Schute is a person who deserves our attention.

[Chuck Wilkes]

I consider Howie Shute and Dave McClung both to be my friends. While we don't stay in constant touch, we have in the past shared some close associations. Here's what occurs to me: If Howie and Dave became the team leading the "turn around" for the denomination, I for one would consider the whole issue to have been touched by the providence of the Spirit. What a great combination! Even is they don't form a "team" just the notion that they might share the best of each of their thoughts with each other is pretty exciting stuff. Go for it guys!

Chuck

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

Dave do you think that if we all went back to bowing before God and praying and those able fasting that the renewal we need would come about? It would happen without so much stress and trying to facilitate change, it seems to me. But how can we ever go back to the way things were when some of us were young and people had to live before God, to just make ends meet, and food on their tables? I remember when we walked in the door of the church, to the sound of praying in the prayer rooms. We use to have a Cottage Prayer meeting once each week prior to a Revival campaign.

Do you think we may be too self suffcient, and don't feel the need of relying on God, now? We use to use the scripture--If my people, who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray----
I long for those times, but being human, fear for things it might take to bring them about--as when we were much younger.

[David Pettigrew]

The most important thing we can do is pray. As my coach says, prayer doesn't enable us to do the greater work; it is the greater work.

That being said, I think 100 years of history has shown us that we have built certain road blocks into our structure that keeps us from being God's best. Our structure may be better than some others. It may even be good. But it's not the best, and the good is ALWAYS the enemy of the best.

So, let us focus on seeking the holy life together, but let us at the same time remove the barriers standing in the way of building God's Community.

In other words, I don't think the answer to the CotN is just "pray harder". We also need to have a holy boldness and sacred trust in stepping out of comfortable territory, and let God lead us to a land that He will show us.

Even if it means having to give up your district camp board position.

[Dave McClung]

Dave do you think that if we all went back to bowing before God and praying and those able fasting that the renewal we need would come about?

Anne, yours is a good question. It seems to me that when we say that great things would happen if only we prayed more, we are suggesting that is our prayers that make the difference rather than God. The power of prayer is not based in the energy or the time that we put in prayer. The power of prayer is that it allows us to exercise faith to connect with God's purposes.

Without minimizing the need to pray and fast, what the Church of the Nazarene needs is Leadership.

In saying that our greatest need is leadership, I am not being critical of individuals. It is our organizational structure that prevents anyone from providing leadership to the Church of the Nazarene in the United States.

Let's start with history. I have not found an example in all of history when a world-wide organization has accomplished its mission effectively without a single leader. Look to the Bible for examples. Each time God wanted his people to accomplish great things, God called forth a leader -- Moses, Joshua, Gideon, Samuel, and many others.

Yes, we need to pray and fast that the Lord will provide the Church of the Nazarene with effective leadership, then we need to be willing to make the changes necessary to allow the leadership to be effective.

[Dave McClung]

The most important thing we can do is pray. As my coach says, prayer doesn't enable us to do the greater work; it is the greater work.

That being said, I think 100 years of history has shown us that we have built certain road blocks into our structure that keeps us from being God's best. Our structure may be better than some others. It may even be good. But it's not the best, and the good is ALWAYS the enemy of the best.

So, let us focus on seeking the holy life together, but let us at the same time remove the barriers standing in the way of building God's Community.

In other words, I don't think the answer to the CotN is just "pray harder". We also need to have a holy boldness and sacred trust in stepping out of comfortable territory, and let God lead us to a land that He will show us.

Even if it means having to give up your district camp board position.

Christians are often tempted to blame their failures on their failure to pray enough.

I have watched with interest the farmers in West Texas. They moved to an arid area where land is cheap because it is dry. Then they plant crops and pray for rain. Over the long run, their prayers haven't changed the weather. It isn't because they didn't pray enough that their crops fail. It is because they planted their crops in a dry area.

It seems to me that we pray for effective leaders in the Church of the Nazarene, but we have set up a structure that prevents individuals from being effective leaders. We can pray 24 hours a day, but if we aren't willing to change the structure, God won't answer our prayers. When we fail, it won't be because we didn't pray enough.

[Crystal Lutton]

Dave,

I fully believe that we are in a time in the history of our denomination to shake things up and change some structural approaches. I completely agree that there are things we can learn from corporate shake ups and I appreciate your taking the time to compile your thoughts from that perspective. I think that in addition to prayer there is a lot to chew on and a great potential for us to go to a new level.

Our congregation just went through a MAJOR shake up and when the dust settled we are in a MUCH better place. We have gone through on a microcosm what you are suggesting on a macrocosm and I would totally support it.

I commented in your thread what tweaks I would humbly suggest to your overall vision. And, tbh, my major area of concern is in a direct overlay of a corporate model to a church or denomination. I have found that we need a *new* model, but not one from the business world. :)

Ultimately I believe that it is God's vision that we must be sure to cast or we will flounder in a new infrastructure. The idea that one person cast a vision concerns me; the idea that one person compile visions that represent the work God is already doing around the world and put it into an international focused and comprehensive vision that fully represents our entire denomination . . . that is an exciting thought.