The Role of DS

[Charles W Christian]

Hi, Friends -
I like my DS. I like lots of DS's, in fact, although I don't think I could do what they do, and I am not sure that the description of what they do in the MANUAL is clear to me. By that I mean that it seems like such a broad description that I wonder if it doesn't lose some focus.

It's hard enough to figure out what pastors are supposed to do (even though I've been one for 16 years). I think I see a little bit of what GS's do, at least as far as oversight of world areas, etc., etc. (obviously, many of us on Naznet agree that there are changes needed even in the role of GS, but anyway....)....

But what about DS? Here are actual samplings of what I've heard from DS's (present and former) over the years about what a DS "does":
1) "Pastor" the pastors -- be a voice of oversight and care for pastors in their roles;
2) Protect and empower congregations -- protect them from harsh pastoral oversight; provide an additional "check and balance" for them in regard to the pastor/staff, etc.
3) "Detached administrator," making sure that administrative items on the district level are maintained and shared adequately, but not seeking to be too proactive;
4) Proactive change agent for local churches, especially in regard to churches in crises and for new church starts.....
5) Overseeing a resource center/area of resource for pastors and congregations, making sure they have the tools to do their work. Period.
6) The Pastor's "overseer"
7) NOT the Pastors's "boss"/overseer....
=============================
I'm sure there are other versions, and I'm sure there are times when all five of these and more are done in some ways.

So.... Anyone have thoughts on what a more clear DS role should/could be if there were such a new Manual provision? I'm not trying to criticize what DS's do; just trying to figure out where the biblical/theological connections are between that role as it is expressed (or not clearly expressed) in the CotN and the local church.

I do think the lack of clarity for some causes some to reach for a "least common denominator" approach, which often leads to DS's seeing themselves as simply marketing agents for their districts and/or salesmen/saleswomen for their districts. This happens too often, in my opinion, and I think it is not ultimately helpful to anyone, DS's included.

Thoughts???

Thanks,

Charles

[Ryan Scott]

just trying to figure out where the biblical/theological connections are between that role as it is expressed (or not clearly expressed) in the CotN and the local church.


Do you think you'll have any luck?

I have a hard time relating the roles of leadership from the New Testament context to our own. I'm not sure they translate well. I prefer to see the admonitions for leaders and general characteristics to seek out and foster.

I don't want to "choose sides" per say and talk about which style of DS leadership I prefer. There are probably some I would work better under, of course, but, for the most part, I think all of them are just seeking to do the best job they can.

If anything, our denomination needs to do a better job of preparing the people who are brave enough to take on the task. I've dealt with lots of new DSs (as they came through our office at HQ for an "orientation") and my observation was that some of them never get beyond treading water, not for lack of ability, but for lack of time to assess the situation and prepare to lead. I'd want to say that a lot of the differences we see are just reactions of individuals who are in over their heads (by no fault of their own, mostly).

[Steven Martinez]

Do you think you'll have any luck?

I have a hard time relating the roles of leadership from the New Testament context to our own. I'm not sure they translate well. I prefer to see the admonitions for leaders and general characteristics to seek out and foster.

I don't want to "choose sides" per say and talk about which style of DS leadership I prefer. There are probably some I would work better under, of course, but, for the most part, I think all of them are just seeking to do the best job they can.

If anything, our denomination needs to do a better job of preparing the people who are brave enough to take on the task. I've dealt with lots of new DSs (as they came through our office at HQ for an "orientation") and my observation was that some of them never get beyond treading water, not for lack of ability, but for lack of time to assess the situation and prepare to lead. I'd want to say that a lot of the differences we see are just reactions of individuals who are in over their heads (by no fault of their own, mostly).

Great points. I have been thinking about leadership in our denom. It seems that it took me 8 years of study and experience before I was ordained (i recieved my local license at 18. Spent 4 years at PLNU and then 3 more at NTS). Yet is seems there is actually little training to be a DS or a GS. It seems we are seting our leaders up for failure. I wonder if the success of a DS is similar to that of a pastor in that a pastor's success or failure is vested in their congregation and a DS's success is rooted in the success of their pastors.

[Mike Schutz]

Great points. I have been thinking about leadership in our denom. It seems that it took me 8 years of study and experience before I was ordained (i recieved my local license at 18. Spent 4 years at PLNU and then 3 more at NTS). Yet is seems there is actually little training to be a DS or a GS. It seems we are seting our leaders up for failure. I wonder if the success of a DS is similar to that of a pastor in that a pastor's success or failure is vested in their congregation and a DS's success is rooted in the success of their pastors.

Some of the success of a DS involves the ability to tackle difficult systematic situations - such as when a district has ignored an urban area, or making a difficult and unpopular yet courageous decision such as selling a camp ground. However, many times success is based upon a response to problems that are not of their making - churches in crisis. It is more difficult to judge success due to helping churches avoid crisis through leading positive pastoral transitions or providing wise counsel.

We should not be surprised by this, as this how we judge success in other areas of executive leadership -such as the presidency.

One of the differences between the role of the pastor and the role of the DS is that a DS often works with one or several pastors who are confident that they could do the job of a DS, even if they say that they are not interested, while most often (I'm not saying never) a pastor doesn't have a member of the congregation looking over his or her shoulder thinking, "I could do a better job than this bozo." It's not that many laypersons couldn't but, as we have discussed in other threads, the deep magic of "The Call" leads most laypersons to not even allow their minds to go there.

[Dennis M. Scott]

Remember the discussion at General Assembly last over what a superintendent does? I think it was Dave McClung who finally "solved" the debacle by reminding us that a superintendent "superintends". Why didn't we think of that? :fun19

I think the issue was mainly a legal matter.

[Hans Deventer]

Remember the discussion at General Assembly last over what a superintendent does?

Yes. How to define the authority the DS has over a local church without making him accountable for it. Nice riddle.

[Dennis M. Scott]

Here's an example of attempting on the floor of the General Assembly to resolve a legal matter and determine a church theory at the same time. When GA is held somewhere other than North America some of the larger picture MIGHT begin be perceived a little more clearly, but it apparently is a little difficult for many NA Nazarenes presently to keep in mind.

[Dave McClung]

Remember the discussion at General Assembly last over what a superintendent does? I think it was Dave McClung who finally "solved" the debacle by reminding us that a superintendent "superintends". Why didn't we think of that? :fun19

I think the issue was mainly a legal matter.

I remember the discussion well. The General Secretary, Jack Stone, and I had discussions on the floor of the General Assembly and behind the scenes too. At that time, the Church of the Nazarene was being sued for the wrongful actions of a pastor (The pastor molested a child). The legal position of the Church of the Nazarene (It's insurance company) was that the denominaiton has no responsibilities for the actions of a pastor. Jack Stone had just come from testifying in that case and had to take a position before the General Assembly consistent with his testimony.

It was and is my position that the denomination had better take responsibility for the supervision of pastors, even if that makes our insurance premiums go up. To me, superintendents" included giving feedback and taking corrective action when a pastor acts inappropriately. When we allow trial lawyers, for purposes of liability, to cause District Superintendents to avoid seeing themselves as superintendents of pastors, we give up the little bit of autority the denomination has.

Much of my career has been in the construction industry. In our industry, the job description of the "superintendent" is very clear. A "superintendent" has direct authority over all of the employees who do the construction work. The "project manager" is the one who does the administrative work.

The definition of "superintendent" in the dictionary is "overseer: a person who directs and manages an organization " In the early years of our denomination, people understood the role of the superintendent was to be a manager -- the district superintendent was the supervisor of the pastors on the district. In recent years, the church has started defining the role as an administrative job with no management responsibility. In my opinion, that change in definition is the most serious organizational issue facing our denomination.

It is my observation that on districts where the district superintendent considers himself or herself to be the "manager" things are going fairly well. On districts where the D.S. does not manage, things are not going well. Unfortunately, there are more of the later than the former.

[Dennis M. Scott]

Dave,

Then, if we eliminate the position of DS, does the management responsibility shift to the regional superintendent, or does it lay solely on the local church?

[Hans Deventer]

The definition of "superintendent" in the dictionary is "overseer: a person who directs and manages an organization " In the early years of our denomination, people understood the role of the superintendent was to be a manager -- the district superintendent was the supervisor of the pastors on the district. In recent years, the church has started defining the role as an administrative job with no management responsibility. In my opinion, that change in definition is the most serious organizational issue facing our denomination.

Dave, how does that work out with:

28. The Church of the Nazarene has a representative form of government.
28.1. We are agreed on the necessity of a superintendency that shall complement and assist the local church in the fulfilling of its mission and objectives. The superintendency shall build morale, provide motivation, supply management and method assistance, and organize and encourage organization of new churches and missions everywhere.
28.2. We are agreed that authority given to superintendents shall not interfere with the independent action of a fully organized church. Each church shall enjoy the right to select its own pastor, subject to such approval as the General Assembly shall find wise to institute. Each church
shall also elect delegates to the various assemblies, manage its own finances, and have charge of all other matters pertaining to its local life and work. (italics mine)

[Charles W Christian]

Dave, how does that work out with:

28. The Church of the Nazarene has a representative form of government.
28.1. We are agreed on the necessity of a superintendency that shall complement and assist the local church in the fulfilling of its mission and objectives. The superintendency shall build morale, provide motivation, supply management and method assistance, and organize and encourage organization of new churches and missions everywhere.
28.2. We are agreed that authority given to superintendents shall not interfere with the independent action of a fully organized church. Each church shall enjoy the right to select its own pastor, subject to such approval as the General Assembly shall find wise to institute. Each church
shall also elect delegates to the various assemblies, manage its own finances, and have charge of all other matters pertaining to its local life and work. (italics mine)

I think Dave's point, Hans, if I understand it, is that this definition does NOT jive with the title "superintendent," and creates the gray area. This Manual statement seems to be trying to do what Dave and others are contending: give some oversight without a responsibility/accountability role.

Some people and some churches in general would prefer the model in the Manual statement. If so, then do we really need a DS who has no authority whatsoever? Doesn't a superintendent super-intend (oversee)? The point of my questions in this thread is that I see no consistent practice from DS's, and I'm wondering why. Again, I'm not critcizing, just questioning. I think your question is a good one, too. If the DS's main role is to "complement and assist" ONLY, then that person isn't a District SUPERINTENDENT in the classic sense of that word (as Dave points out).

Should we change the title, maybe? District coach, district administrative director, district resourcer, etc., etc. ?? It would seem as if, given our current definition in the Manual, we are greatly chaning the idea of "superintendent."

By the way, the DS still seems to have a key role in the pastoral selection process. But I have noticed that not all DS's even come to pastoral interviews (I've had two such interviews where no DS was present at all). Is he/she now just a "District networker"?

Thanks,
Charles

[Hans Deventer]

I think Dave's point, Hans, if I understand it, is that this definition does NOT jive with the title "superintendent," and creates the gray area. This Manual statement seems to be trying to do what Dave and others are contending: give some oversight without a responsibility/accountability role.

Agreed. But it has some historical background of course. The early Nazarenes had less than happy memories of the Methodist bishops. So they wanted to make sure nothing like this would happen again. But especially Reynolds managed to carefully create a superstructure, because he felt that the missionary activities needed it. Ever since, we've increasingly moved to episcopal authority, with perhaps in recent years a turning point in that trend.

Anyway, the DS does have authority regarding churches in crisis. He has less when there is no crisis. Doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

[Steven Martinez]

Anyway, the DS does have authority regarding churches in crisis. He has less when there is no crisis. Doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

The last GA just reduced this authority in that you need the presiding GS's approval before a DS can place a church in crisis. This change would suggest that some DS's were abusing this authority.

[Hans Deventer]

The last GA just reduced this authority in that you need the presiding GS's approval before a DS can place a church in crisis. This change would suggest that some DS's were abusing this authority.

Yes. But for all practical reasons, that provision has hardly any force. The GS is not going to contact the local church, so the information comes from the DS only. All it does is make sure that DAB and DS email a serious report to the GS. And I can hardly see the GS disagree if the DS and DAB propose to name brother X and sister Y to the church board. Seems like mainly adding bureaucracy to me.

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

There does need to be more accountability from DS's. Some have totally destroyed young people that had gone through their training, and were pastoring, and this man told some that he would see , that they never pastored another churh in the COTN. there needs to be some way to take people like this, out of their positions, than to let them go on like this for years, tearing down some very godly ministers. I know this for a fact. There is one in particular, that more than one pastor this way--listening, it seems to me to the members of a church. I know of one that I would not want ot be my DS. I am not calling names. We might could let some regional directors in some regions hold district assemblies, and let the GS's be more in tune with situations like I have just told about.
I was told about a minister that refused to dedicate a baby that was born out of wedlock, but he is a DS now. It seems a person like that is not very compasionate. This about the baby, not a long way from where we live, was from a source that I could believe.

[Paul Tarrant]

I am pleased to discover the discussion on role of the DS - although perhaps we should be looking more for a competencies catalog for DSs. Of course, we know there is an orientation program offered to new DSs at KC... and some follow up for the international Regions through the Regional Offices. With the 2 UK Districts 10 months away from electing new DSs, I wonder can any of you outline a list of core competencies you would want to se in candidatres to be considered. On my home district we did just have a Search and Noomination Committee aproved by Assembly, and the RGS. In our first meeting we came up with a list of such core skills - to be further added to by canvassing colleagues around the UK and world - Here is what we have so far. Would anyone like to add, or clarify additions?

1. Models Single-minded intimacy with God.
2. Student of the Word,
3. Informed in Evangelism /Church Development Principles and Literature.
4. Visionary – Big Picture person
5. Articulate – Casting Vision, inspiring Others to Action.
6. Team Builder – Able to Delegate and Release Peripheral Issues.
- Remaining engaged in Core Issues
7. Change Agent – Building on the Past but not shackled to it
- Willing to make Bold decisions
8. Experience in Change Management, and Church/District Admin.
9. Knowledge of National Culture of the church and society.
10. Missional Minded.
11. Demonstrate Pastoral Care of Leadership Teams.

I don't want to spark a gripe session on failing DSs and Districts - just a discussion on best tools and "Best Practice."
I'm for the Kingdom - in the UK - and from the UK to those who come to our shores from a troubled world.
Paul.

[Hans Deventer]

1. Models Single-minded intimacy with God.
2. Student of the Word,
3. Informed in Evangelism /Church Development Principles and Literature.
4. Visionary – Big Picture person
5. Articulate – Casting Vision, inspiring Others to Action.
6. Team Builder – Able to Delegate and Release Peripheral Issues.
- Remaining engaged in Core Issues
7. Change Agent – Building on the Past but not shackled to it
- Willing to make Bold decisions
8. Experience in Change Management, and Church/District Admin.
9. Knowledge of National Culture of the church and society.
10. Missional Minded.
11. Demonstrate Pastoral Care of Leadership Teams.

Paul, I find that generally it isn't too hard to come up with a picture of the ideal pastor or DS. Chances are though, we won't find that person. Which makes it very important to narrow lists like these down to two or three things we believe are important above all.

What exactly do you want from the DS? A pastoral leader or a change agent? A mystic or an articulate vision caster? I don't think you can have both.

Without presuming too much, perhaps the key competencies are team building, vision casting and change agent. The Manual limits the prospective DS's to elders, so we may presume they have some affinity with the word and the Word.

The person may however need to enlist others with expertise in evangelism and may need to delegate pastoral care to others. Our DS once said if he can't provide pastoral care himself, he's still responsible for it being provided. That sounds like a healthy approach to me in many areas where one isn't gifted oneself.

[Dave McClung]

I am pleased to discover the discussion on role of the DS - although perhaps we should be looking more for a competencies catalog for DSs. Of course, we know there is an orientation program offered to new DSs at KC... and some follow up for the international Regions through the Regional Offices. With the 2 UK Districts 10 months away from electing new DSs, I wonder can any of you outline a list of core competencies you would want to se in candidatres to be considered. On my home district we did just have a Search and Noomination Committee aproved by Assembly, and the RGS. In our first meeting we came up with a list of such core skills - to be further added to by canvassing colleagues around the UK and world - Here is what we have so far. Would anyone like to add, or clarify additions?

1. Models Single-minded intimacy with God.
2. Student of the Word,
3. Informed in Evangelism /Church Development Principles and Literature.
4. Visionary – Big Picture person
5. Articulate – Casting Vision, inspiring Others to Action.
6. Team Builder – Able to Delegate and Release Peripheral Issues.
- Remaining engaged in Core Issues
7. Change Agent – Building on the Past but not shackled to it
- Willing to make Bold decisions
8. Experience in Change Management, and Church/District Admin.
9. Knowledge of National Culture of the church and society.
10. Missional Minded.
11. Demonstrate Pastoral Care of Leadership Teams.

I don't want to spark a gripe session on failing DSs and Districts - just a discussion on best tools and "Best Practice."
I'm for the Kingdom - in the UK - and from the UK to those who come to our shores from a troubled world.
Paul.

Paul

I like your list; however, I don't see anything on the list that relates directly to the duties for which most D.S.s in the U.S. spend their time:

1. Matching pastors with churches.
2. Conflict resolution.

I have observed that when a district elects someone who has spent most of their career on that district, the D.S. has difficulty matching pastors with churches because they don't know very many pastors. A D.S. who is elected or appointed from another district often brings a list of prospective pastors.

I have also observed that district superintendents spend a lot of time in coflict situations. Successful district superintendents engage in conflict resolution. Unsuccessful district superintendents engage in conflict avoidance.

These are just observations.

[Hans Deventer]

I have observed that when a district elects someone who has spent most of their career on that district, the D.S. has difficulty matching pastors with churches because they don't know very many pastors. A D.S. who is elected or appointed from another district often brings a list of prospective pastors.

I'm not sure if that works in a similar way in the UK, Dave. I don't know if there are many Americans pastoring in the CotN in the UK, but if not, I don't think your point is too relevant for a UK district.

I am very sure it doesn't on my district because of the language. All of us on the district leadership know the few Nazarene elders outside of our district that speak Dutch.

There are always exceptions, of course. In the early 70's Dr. Stephen Gunther pastored a church here for a year or two.
Dr. Dan Powers, now teaching at NBC, has a Dutch wife and has at least been called to a church once.
And right now we have the son of the former South West German District DS being a youth pastor in our church in Koog, Dennis Mohn. He'll be marrying a niece of mine on the 4th of July and has promised to do it in Dutch. I hear he's doing very well as a pastor and with his Dutch.

[Dave McClung]

I'm not sure if that works in a similar way in the UK, Dave. I don't know if there are many Americans pastoring in the CotN in the UK, but if not, I don't think your point is too relevant for a UK district.

I am very sure it doesn't on my district because of the language. All of us on the district leadership know the few Nazarene elders outside of our district that speak Dutch.

There are always exceptions, of course. In the early 70's Dr. Stephen Gunther pastored a church here for a year or two.
Dr. Dan Powers, now teaching at NBC, has a Dutch wife and has at least been called to a church once.
And right now we have the son of the former South West German District DS being a youth pastor in our church in Koog, Dennis Mohn. He'll be marrying a niece of mine on the 4th of July and has promised to do it in Dutch. I hear he's doing very well as a pastor and with his Dutch.

I am sure you are right; however, the only Nazarene Church that I have visited in the U.K. was pastored by a German.

Of couse, I am sure that you realize that this thread isn't strictly about District Superintendents in the U.K.

[John Kennedy]

One of the differences between the role of the pastor and the role of the DS is that a DS often works with one or several pastors who are confident that they could do the job of a DS, even if they say that they are not interested, while most often (I'm not saying never) a pastor doesn't have a member of the congregation looking over his or her shoulder thinking, "I could do a better job than this bozo." It's not that many laypersons couldn't but, as we have discussed in other threads, the deep magic of "The Call" leads most laypersons to not even allow their minds to go there.

The first part of your statement reminds me of a famous football coach, I believe at Michigan State. He was once asked what he thought the ideal coaching position would be.

He replied, "Sing Sing."

When asked why he said, "Well you don't have to worry about the alumni wanting to come back to replace you."

[Paul Tarrant]

Thanks, Dave and Hans for contributing to the discussion - It does help the process here in the UK to think that inter-district "trading" is a regular feature in other parts of the world when selecting a DS...
There are some areas of the world like the UK where history has not featured this strategy - although we have a small number (5) of non-UK pastors at present. I'm open to finding the best, no matter where they hold their nationality, but the best for us is more to be thought of in terms of a profile: visionary, with particular types of experience that fit the target-zone, rather than a nationality. Although we all favor our own type where all things otherwise are equal.
You can pray the BIND Search and Nomination group get clarity on all this... and you can watch to see what the 2009 Orlando gathering does with our resolution suggesting this as a "normal" option for DS selection, where proposed by the DAB and ratified by the District Assembly.
Paul Tarrant.
British Isles North District.

[Dave McClung]

Thanks, Dave and Hans for contributing to the discussion - It does help the process here in the UK to think that inter-district "trading" is a regular feature in other parts of the world when selecting a DS...
There are some areas of the world like the UK where history has not featured this strategy - although we have a small number (5) of non-UK pastors at present. I'm open to finding the best, no matter where they hold their nationality, but the best for us is more to be thought of in terms of a profile: visionary, with particular types of experience that fit the target-zone, rather than a nationality. Although we all favor our own type where all things otherwise are equal.
You can pray the BIND Search and Nomination group get clarity on all this... and you can watch to see what the 2009 Orlando gathering does with our resolution suggesting this as a "normal" option for DS selection, where proposed by the DAB and ratified by the District Assembly.
Paul Tarrant.
British Isles North District.

I like the idea. Can you share a copy of the resolution? It helps to have several districts submit a resolution. If we post it on NazNet, the discussion will help you refine the resolution so that several districts will submit it.

[Paul Tarrant]

Yes Dave,
Following is the RESOLUTION on Election of a District Superintendent as approved by the British Isles North District Assembly 2008, for submission to the 2009 General Assembly.

Manual PART IV: Chapter 2 – The District
C. BUSINESS of the DISTRICT ASSEMBLY.

MOTION: TO AMEND Manual Para 203.11 as follows:
Underscored text indicates added wording. Wording in (Parenthesis) indicates wording to be deleted.

203.11. To elect, by two-thirds favourable vote, by ballot, an elder to the office of district superintendent, to serve until 30 days following the final adjournment of the second district assembly following his or her election and until a successor is elected or appointed and qualified. The procedure for re-election of a district superintendent shall be by a “yes” or “no” ballot vote. The procedure for election of a district superintendent where there is a vacancy at the time of the District Assembly shall be either
a. By open nomination ballot of the delegates present and qualified to vote at the District Assembly, or
b. Where recommended by the District Advisory Board and approved by the jurisdictional General Superintendent, the District Advisory Board may constitute themselves, with the addition of the District Chairman of Sunday School and Discipleship Ministries, the District Presidents of NMI and NYI, and such others as deemed appropriate by them, as a Search and Nomination Committee to recommend between two and five names to the District Assembly for election. The delegates of the District Assembly may vote to adopt the report of the said Nominating Committee, or may vote to open the nomination list to other qualified candidates. Where option b. is recommended by the DAB, the list of nominations and biographical profiles shall be circulated to every local church secretary between 4 and 6 weeks prior to the convening of the District Assembly.
c. The District Advisory Board may opt to recommend to the District Assembly a single nomination as “interim” district superintendent pending the setting up of a search and nomination committee to report to the following District Assembly.
No elder shall be considered eligible for election to this office who has at any time surrendered his or her credential for disciplinary reasons. No superintendent shall be elected or re-elected following his or her 70th birthday.

RATIONALE: The election of District Superintendent is a significant and missional milestone in the life of any District. Proactively assessing the needs of the District, then the giftings-mix appropriate for that District’s leadership, and those equipped with such giftings, will open up the options to search for candidates from within or outwith the district who might not otherwise come to consideration.

[Hans Deventer]

[U]The procedure for election of a district superintendent where there is a vacancy at the time of the District Assembly shall be either ..............

Paul, I like the resolution, and especially the room it gives to follow different procedures according to the needs of the district.

[Paul Tarrant]

Now we are preparing a "Leadership Characteristic Grid" with Traits and Skills linked to Roles and Tasks of the DS office. We have time scheduled with a Gallup expert in Leadership Selection - to help us design a process that is Spirit-led, and applied. Has anyone any knowledge of another District doing this kind of search and nomination preparation?

[Dave McClung]

Agreed. But it has some historical background of course. The early Nazarenes had less than happy memories of the Methodist bishops. So they wanted to make sure nothing like this would happen again. But especially Reynolds managed to carefully create a superstructure, because he felt that the missionary activities needed it. Ever since, we've increasingly moved to episcopal authority, with perhaps in recent years a turning point in that trend.

Anyway, the DS does have authority regarding churches in crisis. He has less when there is no crisis. Doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

The primary issue isn't whether or not the ds can supervise the local church. Clearly he or she can't. The issue is whether or not the district superintendent supervises the clergy.

The way our system is set up, clergy qualification, ordination and discipline are a district function, not a local church function. When a member of the clergy is acting in a manner that is inconsistent with his or her professional responsibilities, the district superintendent is the one with the authority to address that issue. The district superintendents that I most respect view their responsibility to include clergy development. That includes encouraging young people to be willing to accept a call. Nurturing the call. Screening out the unqualified. Training, coaching and mentoring the candidates. Recommending those who are eligible for ordination. Encouraging and enabling clergy to be their best. And, discipling clergy who behave improperly. I don't consider district superintendents to be "overseer" of the churches, but I do see them as "overseer" of the clergy on their district.

I hope that clarifies my position.

[Dave McClung]

Yes Dave,
Following is the RESOLUTION on Election of a District Superintendent as approved by the British Isles North District Assembly 2008, for submission to the 2009 General Assembly.

Manual PART IV: Chapter 2 – The District
C. BUSINESS of the DISTRICT ASSEMBLY.

MOTION: TO AMEND Manual Para 203.11 as follows:
Underscored text indicates added wording. Wording in (Parenthesis) indicates wording to be deleted.

203.11. To elect, by two-thirds favourable vote, by ballot, an elder to the office of district superintendent, to serve until 30 days following the final adjournment of the second district assembly following his or her election and until a successor is elected or appointed and qualified. The procedure for re-election of a district superintendent shall be by a “yes” or “no” ballot vote. The procedure for election of a district superintendent where there is a vacancy at the time of the District Assembly shall be either
a. By open nomination ballot of the delegates present and qualified to vote at the District Assembly, or
b. Where recommended by the District Advisory Board and approved by the jurisdictional General Superintendent, the District Advisory Board may constitute themselves, with the addition of the District Chairman of Sunday School and Discipleship Ministries, the District Presidents of NMI and NYI, and such others as deemed appropriate by them, as a Search and Nomination Committee to recommend between two and five names to the District Assembly for election. The delegates of the District Assembly may vote to adopt the report of the said Nominating Committee, or may vote to open the nomination list to other qualified candidates. Where option b. is recommended by the DAB, the list of nominations and biographical profiles shall be circulated to every local church secretary between 4 and 6 weeks prior to the convening of the District Assembly.
c. The District Advisory Board may opt to recommend to the District Assembly a single nomination as “interim” district superintendent pending the setting up of a search and nomination committee to report to the following District Assembly.
No elder shall be considered eligible for election to this office who has at any time surrendered his or her credential for disciplinary reasons. No superintendent shall be elected or re-elected following his or her 70th birthday.

RATIONALE: The election of District Superintendent is a significant and missional milestone in the life of any District. Proactively assessing the needs of the District, then the giftings-mix appropriate for that District’s leadership, and those equipped with such giftings, will open up the options to search for candidates from within or outwith the district who might not otherwise come to consideration.

Paul, help me understand. What happens if a DS is not reelected or does accept the reelection? If I understand the wording, the assembly would proceed immediately with paragraph a.

Wouldn't it be better to reverse the priority so that paragraph b would be what happens unless the jurisdictional GS determined that paragraph a was appropriate?

I have been at district assemblies where paragraph a was followed. When everyone knows that there is going to be an election, people have time to talk to each other about who would be the best candidate. When there is no prior warning and no opportunity for the delegates to visit mistakes are often made.

I was at one district where everyone knew the ds was retiring at the assembly, but they were surprised when the consensus replacement withdrew his name. The assembly was left with no one who was known by enough delegates to be elected. After many rounds of voting, they asked the G.S. to provide some names. They wound up electing someone no one but the G.S. knew. Fortunately, the G.S. made a good suggestion. In my opinion your paragraph b would have been a better option, even if it meant that there would be an interim district superintendent for a while.

Dave

[Dave McClung]

Now we are preparing a "Leadership Characteristic Grid" with Traits and Skills linked to Roles and Tasks of the DS office. We have time scheduled with a Gallup expert in Leadership Selection - to help us design a process that is Spirit-led, and applied. Has anyone any knowledge of another District doing this kind of search and nomination preparation?

Are you using the Strength Finders software that was developed by Gallup?

I just took that test and learned that my strengths are:

Strategic
Achiever
Futuristic
Learner
Maximizer

Could I be a district superintendent?

[Dennis M. Scott]

Are you using the Strength Finders software that was developed by Gallup?

I just took that test and learned that my strengths are:

Strategic
Achiever
Futuristic
Learner
Maximizer

Could I be a district superintendent?


Raise your right hand. :laughing

[Ryan Scott]

Are you using the Strength Finders software that was developed by Gallup?

I just took that test and learned that my strengths are:

Strategic
Achiever
Futuristic
Learner
Maximizer

Could I be a district superintendent?


Make sure you pick up the Facebook application for that.

[Mike Schutz]

Are you using the Strength Finders software that was developed by Gallup?

I just took that test and learned that my strengths are:

Strategic
Achiever
Futuristic
Learner
Maximizer

Could I be a district superintendent?


Many of you know that back in the early 90s the CotN worked with Gallup to use such information to develop a "Pastor Perceiver" and "Church Plainter Perceiver" instrument to assist in finding those with strengths for pastoral ministry. It was not widely used for several reasons, including that it seemed by some folks as attempting to simplistically quantify the nature of the call.

[Paul Tarrant]

[QUOTE=Dave McClung;205329]Paul, help me understand.... Wouldn't it be better to reverse the priority so that paragraph b would be what happens unless the jurisdictional GS determined that paragraph a was appropriate?


Thanks, Dave, I like your reasoning - Let me see if the Editorial Committee for the District Assembly (I guess that would be the DAB) will let me edit the sequence.
And YES, if you'd like to rush through your ordination at the next Gallup Convention, I'll get your name on the Ballot for UK DS - We would welcome a turn-around agent.
As for me, I'm meeting with my Gallup rep on Wednesday.:q)

[Allen Southerland]

Are you using the Strength Finders software that was developed by Gallup?

I just took that test and learned that my strengths are:

Strategic
Achiever
Futuristic
Learner
Maximizer

Could I be a district superintendent?


i certainly don't want to be a DS, but i would be interested in taking that test myself. Also, our district will be going through transition in the next couple of years, so it would be nice if we could have access to this resource for our DAB when that time comes. Where would i find this? i googled it & came up with too many options, so tho't i'd ask here.
Thanx.
~allen

[Paul Tarrant]

i certainly don't want to be a DS, but i would be interested in taking that test myself. Also, our district will be going through transition in the next couple of years, so it would be nice if we could have access to this resource for our DAB when that time comes. Where would i find this? i googled it & came up with too many options, so tho't i'd ask here.
Thanx.
~allen

Amazon will sell you the book:
"Living Your Strengths: Discover Your God-Given Talents and Inspire Your Community" by Albert L. Winseman, Donald O. Clifton, and Curt Liesveld (Hardcover - Oct 10, 2004)
Inside the dust jacket you will find a pin number and the web-site - to log-on to take the test. The suggestion is you read the first couple of chapters before you take the test.

[Paul Tarrant]

Amazon will sell you the book:
"Living Your Strengths: Discover Your God-Given Talents and Inspire Your Community" by Albert L. Winseman, Donald O. Clifton, and Curt Liesveld (Hardcover - Oct 10, 2004)
Inside the dust jacket you will find a pin number and the web-site - to log-on to take the test. The suggestion is you read the first couple of chapters before you take the test.

As an addendum to this - there are 20 leadership themes you will be assessed on - things like: Vision, Focus, Achiever, Courage, Activator, Relator, Responsibility, Strategic Thinker, Developer, Concept,... These are leadership talents/aptitudes from which you develop concepts and skills that make for "success."
We could all do with that outcome.......:amen

[Marsha Lynn]

Amazon will sell you the book:
"Living Your Strengths: Discover Your God-Given Talents and Inspire Your Community" by Albert L. Winseman, Donald O. Clifton, and Curt Liesveld (Hardcover - Oct 10, 2004)
Inside the dust jacket you will find a pin number and the web-site - to log-on to take the test. The suggestion is you read the first couple of chapters before you take the test.

Thanks for the link, Paul. It looks like an interesting book. As my mouse pointer hovered over the "add to cart" button, however, a couple of thoughts kept me from clicking.

1. I still haven't absorbed all the wisdom I've found in J. Oswald Chamber's classic book "Spiritual Leadership." I'm wondering if reading it about five more times might be just as beneficial.

2. I've been using my strengths in the church for many years with little to show for it. More recently, I have been exploring the concept of finding strength in the very core of my weaknesses and have been amazed and humbled by the possibilities I've found there.

The description of the book claims that it will direct readers to capitalize on strengths rather than focus on overcoming weaknesses. Is that what we want in our leaders? It seems to me there's a third choice being overlooked here. Sometimes the way to deal with weaknesses is neither to ignore them nor spend loads of energy trying to overcome them but to acknowledge and accept them and choose to serve as broken vessels, allowing others to see our weaknesses and provide support out of their strength.

My daily prayer is that God will give me to my world as broken bread and poured-out wine. Having that prayer answered can be painful in various ways. But the blessings that keep coming my way are enough to keep me praying it.

O for humble servant-leaders in the church (at all levels) who are willing to be visibly broken and poured out for the sake of the Kingdom.

I'm still using my strengths as asked, but it's like the high school football player I recruited yesterday to help free a car that was stuck. He had plenty of strength to do so and there was no reason not to do it, but it I doubt it was the greatest potential accomplishment of his day. It was just something he could do easily and quickly out of his strength without interfering with more important tasks that may or may not have come so easily for him. The best thing he did yesterday may have been much more difficult and left him exhausted and frustrated in his weakness yet blessed in that he tackled it and did the best he could rather than spend his entire day looking for other stuck cars he could rescue through his strength.

Just another perspective. Pardon the personal testimony. It's not that I have it all figured out; I'm simply sharing what God seems to be teaching me and wondering if it might have wider application, even among upper levels of the church.

Marsha

[Paul Tarrant]

[QUOTE=Marsha Lynn;206258]Thanks for the link, Paul. It looks like an interesting book. ...The description of the book claims that it will direct readers to capitalize on strengths rather than focus on overcoming weaknesses. Is that what we want in our leaders? It seems to me there's a third choice being overlooked here. Sometimes the way to deal with weaknesses is neither to ignore them nor spend loads of energy trying to overcome them but to acknowledge and accept them and choose to serve as broken vessels, allowing others to see our weaknesses and provide support out of their strength. QUOTE:]

Marsha,
Let me reassure you - the weaknesses referrd to in this great book are nothing to do with what holds us back from full devotion or saintliness - Strengths and Weaknesses just refer to the variety of skills and talents we all hold as a trust from God, to be used in the building up of the saints. When we play to our strengths - we are recognising the special place God has given us to fit in the matrix of effectiveness that should be the church. If we seek to operate in areas of weakness (areas where God has not gifted us) we do two things: 1. We frustrate ourselves that we are not very effective, and 2. we stand in the way of someone else for whom that skill - developed out of a God-given talent - is their place to serve.
Scripture teaches us that all the skills relevant to the ministries of the fellowship we contribute to are present among the team of believers. The task of the church is to recognise those strengths in each person and encourrage them to be the foot, or thumb, or heart, or lung that God created them to be. The local fellowship of believers requires every participant to play their part.
Maybe before you get into Strengths-Finders - you need to get your small group, or even your whole church studying Rick Warren's Purpose-Driven Life to discover the shape God has given each of you.
Blessings, as you do.:)

[Marsha Lynn]

Maybe before you get into Strengths-Finders - you need to get your small group, or even your whole church studying Rick Warren's Purpose-Driven Life to discover the shape God has given each of you.
Blessings, as you do.:)

Thanks for the tip, Paul, but I assure you I have been there, done that, and got the key fobs. My primary "spiritual gift" is helping, which gives me jobs such as church treasurer, printing Sunday School attendance sheets, and being in charge of VBS registration. It's because of that strength that I took time out of an impossible schedule to fill out part of the SS superintendent's annual report for her a few weeks ago. I had the data at my fingertips and there was no point in her digging for it when I considered gathering it up to be a welcome respite from the hard work. But that's not where my "strength in weakness" lies.

Let me give you an example of what I mean:

I had two different high school math teachers. I suspect that one of them excelled in his college math classes more than the other. Difficulty with quickly grasping mathematical concepts might have been a weakness for the other. It might have taken him longer to learn how to get from A to C. However, because of that "weakness," he knew well the characteristics of every step along the way and never said words like, "It will be intuitively obvious to the casual observer that we can skip from A right past B and end up at C." Rather, he patiently explained every step of the way from A to B and on to C. I suspect that the thoroughness of his teaching sprang out of a "weakness." Because he had struggled to learn the way, he could teach others.

If Buddy Robinson had taken a "strength-finder" test, I suspect that he never would have ended up as a preacher. Public speaking was a weakness for him, not a strength. And yet, he is still revered as one of the most effective preachers in the history of our denomination. (Kind of reminds me of Moses, who knew his very real weakness and explained to Yahweh why he wasn't the right man for the job. It seems that weakness has never been an acceptable excuse for disobedience.)

Doing ministry in areas where we are obviously lacking in natural ability makes us dependent on both God and others. From what I see in the Bible, that is actually the norm for serving God. It's not that we accept our weaknesses as hopeless, nor that we neglect our areas of strength while trying to do stuff we were never intended to do, nor that we stand in the way when other, more capable, people are standing on the sidelines waiting to take over. Rather, we acknowledge that we are indeed weak and then allow God to use our broken parts to bless others. (And we open doors for others to come alongside us and be strong where we are weak.)

If you still think I am missing out on the fundamentals of "spiritual gifting," I understand. But I'm also glad you're not my priest. Requiring me to revisit The Purpose-Driven Life is a penance beyond what I can bear. :eek: How about if I reread Spiritual Leadership ten more times instead of five? Will that do?

:gen07

Marsha

[Susan Unger]

Requiring me to revisit The Purpose-Driven Life is a penance beyond what I can bear. :eek: How about if I reread Spiritual Leadership ten more times instead of five? Will that do?

:gen07

Marsha

So you had the same feelings about that book that I do? :basic05

[Paul Tarrant]

Marsha,
I suspect we are getting away from the purpose of this thread - Suffice it to say that had Strengths-Finder been available to Moses and Uncle Bud - they would have discovered some new and interesting things about themselves that would have given them proof of their talents. Such proof would have supported them as they worked on those inborn talents to develop the skills which would bring glory to God in their ministries. I gather they actually both did quite well - to the surprise of those around. Had we been assessing them subjectively, which is still the scourge of grace-drowners in the church today - we like their contemporaries may have seen little promise in their desires to preach or lead.
Let's just say SF is not for everyone, as apparently neither is PDL... but some people, many people,... find them to be a help in discovering God's purpose for them.
We have all heard of at least one example of a Kindergarten teacher who resents kids, and should be released to follow their heart to work with Alcoholics - but no-one wants the kindergarten job, so they plod on and miss their real calling. Who knows, but if they quit and worked with the families of the alcoholics - someone would emerge from that class who just would love an opportnity in the Kindergarten. - Now in that case - release to follow a strength could actually multiply the total effectiveness of the church...
Maybe the DS needs to step in here and work with pastors who have yet to realise how they can release local leaders from frustration and unproductiveness - to take up their real place in the team.
There - that gets us right back on topic.:basic03

[Marsha Lynn]

So you had the same feelings about that book that I do? :basic05

Maybe, although I have to confess that my negative reaction wasn't entirely to the book itself. It also involved the wholesale acceptance of it by large groups of people as though it were inspired by God himself.

I actually found The Purpose-Driven Church by the same author quite insightful way back in the days before the term Purpose-Driven started appearing on bread wrappers at the grocery store. (Oops, that might be hyperbole.) However, at that time, no one else seemed to have heard of Rick Warren and I was free to take what I found useful and overlook the rest without someone trying to cram the whole thing down my throat.

Which has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. I should probably release it to its former purpose. My primary point in jumping in here was to suggest that until God creates the perfect D.S., humbly acknowledging one's weaknesses and having some skill at turning those weaknesses into strengths should probably be included on any list of desired characteristics for a prospective D.S.

Marsha

[Paul Tarrant]

One need for a DS in fulfilling his many roles would be to staff to his Weaknesses... while playing to his strengths. That's my need too in Family Practice.

[Mike Schutz]

One need for a DS in fulfilling his many roles would be to staff to his Weaknesses... while playing to his strengths. That's my need too in Family Practice.

When several of us representing Nazarene higher education spent time at Gallup - over 15 years ago - Donald Clifton and associates carefully differentiated between "weaknesses" and "non-strengths." A non-strength does not become a weakness until you are consistently put in a position where you have to overcome it. For example, if I were forced to lead music, or handle the church finances.

The goal is to make your strengths so strong that your non-strengths become irrelevant, both through personal strength development and changes in the environment (like staffing).

I think this is why an unwillingness on the part of congregations (and districts) to change expectations of their leadership in response to personal strengths leads to frustration on the part of everyone. This is also why this conversation is such an important one. Understanding this dynamic and working through it in advance is the key. I also think that Appreciative Inquiry can be helpful here.

[Gene Tatsch]

...
1. I still haven't absorbed all the wisdom I've found in J. Oswald Chamber's classic book "Spiritual Leadership." I'm wondering if reading it about five more times might be just as beneficial.
...

?do you mean J. Oswald Sanders?? :fun06
I can find a book of this title under his name: http://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Leadership-Principles-Excellence-Believer/dp/0802482279/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216397760&sr=8-1

[Marsha Lynn]

?do you mean J. Oswald Sanders?? :fun06
I can find a book of this title under his name: http://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Leadership-Principles-Excellence-Believer/dp/0802482279/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216397760&sr=8-1

Yes, thanks for the correction. I should have known better. Obviously, I got him confused with the other "Oswald" of devotional fame.

Too late to edit, but hopefully others can either find this post or figure it out if they're interested.

Marsha