Stepping on toes here....

[Dale Cozby]

(subtitled: What you watch on TV, What you approve of seeing and doing and what others think of you for your choices)

OK, sometimes I am amazed that people claim holiness in heart and life in testimony for years and yet continuously throw out parts of the Manual, ignore the pastor's preaching, Sunday School teachers guidance in making good choices,(essentially reject the church's teachings), and even outside the church sources which condemn violence( graphic or otherwise), crude language, sexual content, nudity, "adult themes"(whatever that means) and watch what they are drawn to without regard for their family stuck with it( kids included) or the faulty ideas planted in their head by it.

In the days of Rome, Christians stuck out because they didn't participate in the extracurricular activities of the day. They didn't go to the Colosseum to watch people die, they didn't go to the toga party orgies, they didn't get drunk, etc....in fact the Romans began to think they were done right weird and even accused them of doing these things in secret.

So why is it today we bring such garbage into our homes as Christians? Is it because we do these things in secret like the Romans suspected while putting on the pious face publically? Or is it that we just don't get it in the first place?

OK, now to step on some toes....sorry.
I know some here like the show Battlestar Galactica, and I tried it the first few episodes of the first season and gave it up. But after some of your posts and the commercial they ran talking about who will be the savior and the obvious Last supper pose i decided to give it one more try.

I couldn't get through 10 minutes of the show. Every other word is the F word changed slightly so they can say it over and over and over ad naseum on TV. I didn't count but if i had it would have been used at least 15-20 times in those 10 minutes. And yes, we all know what they are saying even if they ad 1 extra letter to it, just like people post in forums and use foul language by deliberately misspelling it to get by a filter. Man if we printed that word in here like they use it we would be moderated right out the door right?

Please explain how we as Christians should be putting this sort of stuff into our head? and if you are selective of your vices...why is foul language acceptable to watch, but nudity not? Like talking about it isn't bad but seeing it is? Do you just say, "Well, you have your weaknesses and I have mine. Do you say let he who is without sin cast the first stone then let it go accepting a less than perfect Christlikeness as the norm for your life and everyone else you influence?

What about making threats of violence, death and mayhem? Is that bad in real life, but watching it acted out OK?

It seems to me we need to be consistent in our behavior of what we shun.
If we brought Crown Royal whiskey home and displayed it on our shelf for visitors to see would that be equal to bringing home a rated R horror flick and watching it with our friends? see Romans 14

So let's see if we can have a meaningful conversation about personal habits of holiness without throwing out the hated "L" word toward anyone. sigh....Ok, I guess I can say it....legalism. And yes, I know holiness has to do with what we do, but it also has alot to do with what we don't do ( see Pauline epistles)

When does the practice of our purity, "come out from among them and be ye separate" kick in and how should we live it out in the choices of TV/movies and extracurricular activity we abstain from and what we promote as good. Psalm 101:2-4

[Gina Stevenson]

Well, I stepped on my own awhile back when, trying a show b/c sometimes it amused me due to having worked legal for a long time, this show appeared to have become even worse than before the "new" ones came on after the strike. I decided that they were trying so hard to push beyond any limits that it was now downright disgusting to the point of not ignoring a comment or two, because it became downright gross ... in my estimation. What show is that? Boston Legal. After trying the ones marked (N) meaning "new" a few weeks ago, twice, I just haven't even turned it back on; the newest garbage just wasn't worth waiting for a few minutes of comical or interesting "stuff."

[Bill Evans]

I remember a quotation from the old "Herald of Holiness." (I know this dates me, but I think the principle is still applicable.) I believe it was in an editorial by Dr. McCumber. It was in the form of a rhetorical question and went something like this--Why do we
claim to be delivered from sin and watch someone else's sin for entertainment?

[Scott Hilton]

(subtitled: What you watch on TV, What you approve of seeing and doing and what others think of you for your choices)

OK, sometimes I am amazed that people claim holiness in heart and life in testimony for years and yet continuously throw out parts of the Manual, ignore the pastor's preaching, Sunday School teachers guidance in making good choices,(essentially reject the church's teachings), and even outside the church sources which condemn violence( graphic or otherwise), crude language, sexual content, nudity, "adult themes"(whatever that means) and watch what they are drawn to without regard for their family stuck with it( kids included) or the faulty ideas planted in their head by it.

In the days of Rome, Christians stuck out because they didn't participate in the extracurricular activities of the day. They didn't go to the Colosseum to watch people die, they didn't go to the toga party orgies, they didn't get drunk, etc....in fact the Romans began to think they were done right weird and even accused them of doing these things in secret.
I think if we are going to engage in this, we need an accurate comparison of activities, which I don’t think this is. For one thing, Christians were at the Coliseum, but I don’t think anyone would actively seek out to be in the seat they were in.

The next thing I see as not being an accurate comparison here is that you are comparing what we watch in a fictional sense to what they were watching in a real sense. One is made up and one was real. If I watch someone die on TV, it is not real; it was very real in the coliseum. I am not saying you don’t have a point in what you are getting at, I am just saying that I don’t agree with the comparisons you are using. My mind is intelligent enough to be able to separate fact and fiction in that sense. A more accurate comparison would be:

Since the Romans used the Coliseum as entertainment and also as a way to put to death those condemned criminally, should we as Christians stand and witness the death penalty in support of it in this day and age? That to me is a more accurate comparison, however I don’t think that is where you wanted to go either.

So, I guess what I don’t know, is if Christians went to the plays of the time of the Roman culture? I don’t know, I do know that the plays varied in their essence, but I would put money on the fact that they had adult themes and violence in them, that they had scantily clad women in them. Did the Christians of that day go to them and watch them? I honestly don’t know, but this is what needs to be used as a comparison, IMO, if we are going to discuss what we as Christian’s view today to what they viewed then.


I couldn't get through 10 minutes of the show. Every other word is the F word changed slightly so they can say it over and over and over ad naseum on TV. I didn't count but if i had it would have been used at least 15-20 times in those 10 minutes. And yes, we all know what they are saying even if they ad 1 extra letter to it, just like people post in forums and use foul language by deliberately misspelling it to get by a filter.
I understand how you feel, I have never watched the Battlestar show, but when I heard they were doing a movie of “The Dukes of Hazzard”, I was siked. That was a show that brought back fond memories of my childhood when my family would all be together and watching the show. I even had the General Lee to play with while the show was on, lol….then I saw who they got to play in the movie and the commercials for it. I couldn’t bring myself to go see it or rent it. I caught a few minutes of it on TV a few months back and had to turn it. It made me sad.


Please explain how we as Christians should be putting this sort of stuff into our head? and if you are selective of your vices...why is foul language acceptable to watch, but nudity not? Like talking about it isn't bad but seeing it is? Do you just say, "Well, you have your weaknesses and I have mine. Do you say let he who is without sin cast the first stone then let it go accepting a less than perfect Christlikeness as the norm for your life and everyone else you influence?
These are some good questions and all I can do is give you my opinion on myself. I work in a machine shop, I hear crude language all day. I am numb to it, it doesn’t affect me. However I know I have a weakness to the female body, that my mind does in fact take those images in and bring them back. I try to stay away from things that would do that. So when movies, art; has language in it, that does not bother me because it doesn’t change my heart. Sexual content can and I try to keep, along with my wife’s help, a distance from those media’s which would have that.

I also acknowledge the fact that I get tired of art/movies etc. that always have the Disney ending. To me, this is not a true representation of the life we live in. Life, real life in this fallen world, is sinful. If I watch a movie that has violence, language what have ya in it. It’s not because I am trying to glorify it or that the creators are either. Some do yes, but you know what I mean. Real life is ugly, sinful, painful, violent and there are times where art actually shows that…..in fact, isn’t that what art is…..a reflection of society? I think there is a line that we must draw and I do think it is not the same line for all people. However I also believe that we can give such a buffer to that line that it not only causes us to be separate, but can actually cause us to be ignorant to the real world around us.

I also wonder, if we were to make a true to life movie about most of the stories in scripture, what rating would that movie get? Would we be allowed to watch it?

Dale, I think this could be a good discussion, thanks.

[Billy Cox]

So let's see if we can have a meaningful conversation about personal habits of holiness without throwing out the hated "L" word toward anyone. sigh....Ok, I guess I can say it....legalism. And yes, I know holiness has to do with what we do, but it also has alot to do with what we don't do

Dale, why would you begin a 'meaningful conversation' with a diatribe against people who watch TV shows that you hate? If you want dialog that rises above name-calling, perhaps you should start by NOT name-calling.

While I appreciate the reference to Romans 14, I am disappointed that your verbal barrage doesn't reflect that you read it or took it to heart.

Abstain from whatever you will and I won't judge you for it, but be prepared for admonishment if you attack the freedom that others have in the Spirit.

[Ken Pell]

Regardless of how I feel about the issue.

The tenor of the original post seems designed to judge, trap, or build one's self up more than it does to seek understanding or discuss a topic.

[Billy Cox]

I remember a quotation from the old "Herald of Holiness." (I know this dates me, but I think the principle is still applicable.) I believe it was in an editorial by Dr. McCumber. It was in the form of a rhetorical question and went something like this--Why do we
claim to be delivered from sin and watch someone else's sin for entertainment?

I have trouble taking entertainment advice from someone whose (Nazarene) generation considered 'Green Acres' and 'Andy Griffith' to be on the edge of Hell itself. :rolleyes:

By the same logic, I should not read the Bible because it is so full of the accounts of sinful people. :eek:

[DA Weaver]

If we brought Crown Royal whiskey home and displayed it on our shelf for visitors to see would that be equal to bringing home a rated R horror flick and watching it with our friends? see Romans 14

Well, I've got a bottle of "Slagle Red Wine" sitting in my hall beside two wine glasses that I received as a gift for my anniversary. The wine glasses were received with a bottle of non alacholic grape juice. The wine is a bottle of wine my cousin made for his brother's wedding. I didn't consume of the wine at the wedding, nor have I opened the bottle of wine in my home. However, the wine is something that was made by my cousin that has his family name "Slagle" on the label. I don't consider displaying a bottle of unopened wine, which has a significant family connection to it the same as bringing home an R rated flick. I would be more concerned if I were displaying an empty wine bottle.

Here's my question for you... SOMETIMES R rated films are R rated because of the violence. Passion of the Christ comes to mind for this one. Although I haven't seen it all the way through, I don't know if there's foul language in it or not. It seems most movies these days have at least one cuss word in them. It seems they can't manage to make a descent movie w/o them, when in reality they've just ruined a descent movie because of one bad word.

To me, a movie like the Passion of the Christ seems like a horror flick... just to think of my savior being tortured so is horror to me. Yet I know he had to die to save us of our sins, but did he have to die such a horrific death to do so? (Note, I'm not questioning God here.... just making a statement...) The thoughts of someone I love so dearly being treated so horrifically are enough to bring tears to my eyes as I type this.

I've yet to feel convicted about that bottle of wine, and if the day comes I'll be more than happy to disspose of it.

[DA Weaver]

I have trouble taking entertainment advice from someone whose (Nazarene) generation considered 'Green Acres' and 'Andy Griffith' to be on the edge of Hell itself. :rolleyes:

By the same logic, I should not read the Bible because it is so full of the accounts of sinful people. :eek:

lol, kind of makes me wonder what they would think of our power point presentations used in morning worship...

[Gina Stevenson]

Billy, where'd you hear this? Guess I missed any diatribes against Green Acres or Andy Griffith. Or are you kidding? :rolleyes: :laughing

I have trouble taking entertainment advice from someone whose (Nazarene) generation considered 'Green Acres' and 'Andy Griffith' to be on the edge of Hell itself. :rolleyes:

By the same logic, I should not read the Bible because it is so full of the accounts of sinful people. :eek:

[Scott Hilton]

Regardless of how I feel about the issue.

The tenor of the original post seems designed to judge, trap, or build one's self up more than it does to seek understanding or discuss a topic.
That doesn't mean it can't be discussed though. It could be a good discussion......or maybe I just got trapped? I am so ready for the weekend. :cool:

[David Parker]

Tragic and evil events (murder, rape, etc.) have always been a large part of literature and drama. As Scott has pointed out, these depictions are performances, not reality. And of course if we remove the violence and sex from the scriptures the book would be much thinner.

But as to the primary point, I don't doubt that some Christians' sensibilities are offended with most any fictional depiction of 'sin' or bad language. But many are not offended because of the context of the depiction. Hearing fictional characters in a science fiction series freely using a fictional 'cuss' word just doesn't offend me or my faith. For that matter, hearing fictional cops and bad guys in a crime drama using real cuss words doesn't offend me or my faith either. I don't use those words and neither do most everyone I know. But I understand that in certain segments of society they are fairly common. Certainly the Sopranos would have just been silly using gosh and golly and dabnabbit.

There is certainly much trash in our entertainment choices, but also much quality. I am very choosy about movies or shows we watch with our kids, but the final decision is not based solely on ratings, bad words, violence or even sex.

I watched one of my favorite films with my 12 year old son last night. Was Last of the Mohicans (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104691/) with Daniel Day-Lewis. Had lots of violence, but also a compelling story of love, sacrifice and survival.

Another film we have watched recently as a family is another favorite, Rob Roy. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114287/) Has an R rating due to violent sword play, battle scenes, and a rape scene. There is no nudity and no bad language. Was worthwhile due to it's strong story line of love, courage, honor and justice.

The first R rated film we watched as a family was Amisted. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118607/) The violence and nudity were meaningless compared to the message of this film. Was a very positive and worthwhile experience for our kids.

I suspect that some Christians are so thin skinned and sensitive that they suffer offense at just about anything. Christ ate and drank with the 'worldly' folks and didn't seem to be so thin skinned. He focused on the heart and didn't seem to get distracted by such things.

[Heidi Anderson]

Mark 7:14-16 says:

14After He called the crowd to Him again, He began saying to them, "Listen to Me, all of you, and understand:
15there is nothing outside the man which can defile him if it goes into him; but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile the man.

I think Jesus was pretty clear here and I agree with David about being thick-skinned. I'm not so sure holiness has as much to do with what goes in...as what comes out.

[Charles W Christian]

Besides, the Godfather movies didn't use the "F" Bomb! I mean c'mon, this demonstrates that gangster movies do not have to use the F bomb every three seconds to be edifying and entertaining (got that, Sopranos???)....

:basic05:thanks):urw)

Sorry, Dale....Couldn't resist....It's just business....:basic07

CWC

[Dale Cozby]

Mark 7:14-16 says:

14After He called the crowd to Him again, He began saying to them, "Listen to Me, all of you, and understand:
15there is nothing outside the man which can defile him if it goes into him; but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile the man.

I think Jesus was pretty clear here and I agree with David about being thick-skinned. I'm not so sure holiness has as much to do with what goes in...as what comes out.

Yes, exactly. So where do you get your philosophy, your theology, your ethics, your morality, and how does it get modified over time?

I say most people are heavily influenced by TV/movies, Music, and Internet.
We use multi-media in church because it is so effective at sharing concepts, inspiration, worship, knowledge, etc...
We are a generation taught to ingest what comes though media. I think more people are influenced by TV/movies in thier beliefs than by the church. Sadly, I think the church as a whole is more influenced by TV/Media/movies than by its own leadership.

We display the values we learned from TV/Movies in our dress, our langauge, our time, how we spend money, our attitudes toward others, and our belief system.

If someone said "I read porno magazines but it doesn't have any affect on me" would you believe that? So what we are really talking about is to what degree we are being affected and how can we be made sensitive to it once again.

Ryan accused me of not being sensitive to a certain group a couple of days ago. Well I say, we are all desensitized in different ways and also made overly sensitive where should not be due to TV.

And yes I agree we do need to be thicker skinned. but we need to know when to be and when not to be.

Peter says, "if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)" So should Lot just have gotten thicker skin? or was he right to be distressed?

I know this response is a lot about TV but it really has to do with anything in our life that doesn't match up to this scripture: Philippians 4:8

[Heidi Anderson]

If someone said "I read porno magazines but it doesn't have any affect on me" would you believe that? So what we are really talking about is to what degree we are being affected and how can we be made sensitive to it once again.



Peter got red letters! Wow...

I don't always agree with what you say on the board Dale, and that could be due to our theological, generational, geographical differences...but I respect your opinion especially in the above mentioned thought. I do believe that pornography has an affect on folks - whether or not the affect is seen at the time the pornography is taken "in" or later down the road.

I love your thought of the degree to which we are being affected and how are we to be sensitive to it once it's discovered. This is the beginning of any painful/meaningful growth or change and I believe it should always be happening in the lives of Christ followers. Always asking the question "is this in step with what Jesus would have said/done/prescribed/taught"? I realize that this is an unsophisticated means of self-checking, but it is helpful and the Holy Spirit can then reveal areas in our lives that need checking/growth/development and each is ready at different times for change.

I think we're on the same page - just using different language.

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

There are things that enter into us by mouth, eyes, and ears, that could be very detrimental to us spiritually--that help manifest what comes out.

[Dale Cozby]

Yeah Paul got dark red letters. I used to give him purple letters but on my screen I can't tell purple from black sometimes. Just trying to make his words stick out form mine, not promote him.:basic03

I wish I could take back some of the stuff I have heard or seen over the years. Images and sounds that trigger thoughts of regret. Used to be a billboard in town of a girl in a bikini pitching beer or something but the caption read "made you look" I hated the fact that everytime i drove down the road, it was right there almost right in front of me, due to the curve in teh road and the elevation of the roadway putting it siting on the horizon of the roadway.

Then there was the billboard of the nude woman sitting on a motorcycle, she was carefully covered in all the right places of course, but still the image was of a naked woman on a bike.
So in a society full of the pornographic(mild to hard), langauge, images, violence, anger and wrath, sensual and otherwise....it is hard to not allow these things to numb us down and stop us from achieving in our souls the peace we desire. Keeping our homes a sanctuary devoted to God is hard.

I have had people stay with me over the years and they always comment that they feel at peace when here in my home. That is how I want it to be for all who enter my home, regardless of the fact that when I open my windows I will hear the freeway, the sirens, booming car stereos, etc...

[Jim Franklin]

I try to rely on Paul's admonition of Phillipians 4, "Whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report, if there be any virtue, if there be any praise, think on these things."

One change in life style habits I have noticed over the passed 60 + years is that there is a lot more time given over to entertainment now and much of the entertainment these days would not measure up to the above admonition so I challenge all to use the "off' switch more often. It might have been better if those writers were never rehired after their strike IMO.

[Billy Cox]

Yes, exactly. So where do you get your philosophy, your theology, your ethics, your morality, and how does it get modified over time?

I say most people are heavily influenced by TV/movies, Music, and Internet.

...

I know this response is a lot about TV but it really has to do with anything in our life that doesn't match up to this scripture: Philippians 4:8

I wouldn't say that I have a fully-developed ethic of entertainment, but I do have one that is uniquely reflective of who I am that I will summarize here...worth the price of admission.

I believe that what I experience is not nearly as important as the quantity in which I partake. I know what 'too much' feels like and I try to stay out of that territory.

Some people view desensitization to evil as a bad thing, but it doesn't have to be. Not being shocked by evil is not the same as losing the ability to discern between good and evil.

For some people, being conversant with the storyline of Saw 3, or Goodfellas, or Pulp Fiction harms their witness - but I believe the opposite - that being clueless about popular media just reinforces the steretype that Christians are overly-sheltered, naive, and out of touch. For the same reason, I pay no attention to evangelical 'news' sources.

Whereas I have a low threshold for tolerance of sexually explicit content, I have a high threshold for violent content. I suppose that I am far more in tune with the sexual side of my being than I am with my violent tendencies. Thus I am far more vulnerable to sexual sin than to violent sin and I make my entertainment choices accordingly.

I recognize that this is my ethic and it may seem alien to others. That's fine. I'm not writing any ethical prescriptions.

[Gina Stevenson]

Besides, the Godfather movies didn't use the "F" Bomb! I mean c'mon, this demonstrates that gangster movies do not have to use the F bomb every three seconds to be edifying and entertaining (got that, Sopranos???)....

:basic05:thanks):urw)

Sorry, Dale....Couldn't resist....It's just business....:basic07

CWC

No, they may not have, but just watching the first one gave me enough nightmares I wished for years I'd not even seen it! Violence really affects a person sometimes ... well, maybe depending on what they've lived. But, anyway, watching violence can do as much harm as some other things. I'll opt for comedy ... not so scary. :eek:

I have had people stay with me over the years and they always comment that they feel at peace when here in my home. That is how I want it to be for all who enter my home, regardless of the fact that when I open my windows I will hear the freeway, the sirens, booming car stereos, etc...

Reminds me of a plaque that's stashed somewhere [not in a home of my own at the moment]: "Peace to all who enter," that belongs by the door. Recall someone putting it like this when I had a home of my own [tho' I sound half the time as if I'm losing it while living here ...]: "It's so relaxing here ... and your humor is so off the wall, I love it!" [not to brag, but just as much to remind myself, I guess, of what I learned to be after I left here ... enough so that I forgot what it was like here before, so could possibly still be .......]. Someday ... someday I'll have a life again ....

I challenge all to use the "off' switch more often. It might have been better if those writers were never rehired after their strike IMO.
Actually, I'm wondering if they got worse, or if some new ones were hired in their place for some of the shows, since the one I used to be able to tolerate to glean from it the funny stuff got so bad, I just don't watch anymore.

I recognize that this is my ethic and it may seem alien to others. That's fine. I'm not writing any ethical prescriptions.
That's good! [referencing the above-noted Godfather nightmares!] :eek:

[Heidi Anderson]

For some people, being conversant with the storyline of Saw 3, or Goodfellas, or Pulp Fiction harms their witness - but I believe the opposite - that being clueless about popular media just reinforces the steretype that Christians are overly-sheltered, naive, and out of touch. For the same reason, I pay no attention to evangelical 'news' sources.



This is precisely why I have four tattoos and a nose pierce. Thanks for sharing your ethic Billy.

[Dale Cozby]

Some people view desensitization to evil as a bad thing, Well I doubt many in here would think being desensitized to Pharisee/legalistic behavior( where it looks ugly and sinful) in themselves or others as a good thing. I doubt that being desensitized to racism, or cross-cultural hatred a good thing. I don't suppose being desensitized to evil/sin in the form of social injustice is a good thing.

If then we should be sensitive in those areas, which sometimes I come off as insensitive BTW, but I keep working on it. Should we not as well call attention to a carefree attitude toward the pornographic violence and sensual? I mean if I went to someone's home and they sat down and turned on violent pornography or sexual pornography should I sit there and watch it with them? If I went to someone's home and they sat there using the "N" word and essentially running down anyone not like them should I not likewise be unsettled and wish to depart their company lest some of that rub off on me or that I give tacit approval of thier words/actions?

Not being shocked by evil is not the same as losing the ability to discern between good and evil No, but it is a good first step in that direction. I think of post-traumatic stress disorder as an example and also video game syndrome, where kids commit violent acts in real life where they first spent months playing violent video games or rapists/pedophiles that started by viewing porn.

[Gina Stevenson]

If I went to someone's home and they sat there using the "N" word and essentially running down anyone not like them should I not likewise be unsettled and wish to depart their company lest some of that rub off on me or that I give tacit approval of thier words/actions?
This reminds me, since you live in the DFW area [right?], there was someone there who used the "W" word when I lived there, and failed to pass on messages from a friend whose accent she could detect [she was from Mexico City] ... got me to the boiling point really quickly, as laid back as I can usually be. Wetbacks she called 'em! ... as bad as the "N" word, so far as I'm concerned.

No, but it is a good first step in that direction. I think of post-traumatic stress disorder as an example and also video game syndrome, where kids commit violent acts in real life where they first spent months playing violent video games or rapists/pedophiles that started by viewing porn.

Recollections of Ted Bundy, reading the underlined part here.

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

Violence in the Bible, does not affect people, and cause them to "go there and do likewise."
People feel a silence and peace when they wlk in our door. We have been told how peaceful it feels even if grandchildren are making a noise or we are singing around the piano, or having a snack, peace reigns--but we still lots of hilarious fun.

We got a TV, after we were married around 20 years, but, if company comes, the TV goes off.

[Billy Cox]

Well I doubt many in here would think being desensitized to Pharisee/legalistic behavior( where it looks ugly and sinful) in themselves or others as a good thing. I doubt that being desensitized to racism, or cross-cultural hatred a good thing. I don't suppose being desensitized to evil/sin in the form of social injustice is a good thing.

If then we should be sensitive in those areas, which sometimes I come off as insensitive BTW, but I keep working on it. Should we not as well call attention to a carefree attitude toward the pornographic violence and sensual? I mean if I went to someone's home and they sat down and turned on violent pornography or sexual pornography should I sit there and watch it with them? If I went to someone's home and they sat there using the "N" word and essentially running down anyone not like them should I not likewise be unsettled and wish to depart their company lest some of that rub off on me or that I give tacit approval of thier words/actions?

No, but it is a good first step in that direction. I think of post-traumatic stress disorder as an example and also video game syndrome, where kids commit violent acts in real life where they first spent months playing violent video games or rapists/pedophiles that started by viewing porn.

Well, I didn't really think I would talk you out of your worldview within the course of one message board thread. btw, there is no such thing as 'video game syndrome'. I can build just as strong a case that eating at McDonalds or going bowling leads to violent crime or child rape. :rolleyes:

[Glenda Harvey]

As Christians some movies and television shows should bother us enough not to watch them. I've always thought it odd that when movies and television shows were fairly innocent Nazarenes and other Christians didn't watch them but now that they are much more graphic,violent and sexual, most Christians do go to movies and watch T.V. I try to be careful what I watch but have to admit to watching some things I probably shouldn't. I will usually turn off something that is laced with the F word or the N word as well as things that are overtly sexually explicit. I think each Christian needs to follow their own convictions as to what they should watch but refrain from being judgemental of what other Christians choose to watch. We have computers, newpapers, and the mail system to let production companies & adverisers know what we like and don't like.

[Bill Evans]

I have trouble taking entertainment advice from someone whose (Nazarene) generation considered 'Green Acres' and 'Andy Griffith' to be on the edge of Hell itself. :rolleyes:

By the same logic, I should not read the Bible because it is so full of the accounts of sinful people. :eek:

Billy, I was stating a principle. Principles stand the test of time as they apply across the generations. I believe that perhaps the principle is even more applicable in the days of 'Two and a Half Men' or 'How I Met Your Mother" than it was to 'Green Acres' and 'Andy Griffith.':basic03

[Ryan Scott]

It seems the purpose: entertainment, should play a big role in this discussion. What is the value of the activities we support and participate in and the things we watch?

I can think of a specific movie, Hollow Man, I rented once to see how they put a contemporary spin on the invisible man story. About ten minutes into the movie, I realized it was simply going to be a vehicle to show how many naked women a man could spy on if he were invisible. Were I to continue watching the movie, it would have been pure, indulgent entertainment. I stopped it and returned it.

We've seen other examples of movies with similar troubling content, but with different aims and purposes.

I think we should be very judicious in our choices of entertainment, but that is not always the main purpose of every movie we watch.

[Dale Cozby]

Well, I didn't really think I would talk you out of your worldview within the course of one message board thread. btw, there is no such thing as 'video game syndrome'. I can build just as strong a case that eating at McDonalds or going bowling leads to violent crime or child rape. :rolleyes:

Have you heard the latest university study ( heard it on the news today in relation to th release of Grand Theft Auto # whatever.) The study showed that the centers of the brain which are active when watching real violence are the a same as when playing a video game. They are the same centers in the brian that go active when violent criminals talk/relive thier violent crimes. That seems to be pretty compelling that violence of any form or content begets violent thoughts. Jesus said we have comitted murder when we do so in our heart, we have comitted adultery while it is still a thought. That is pretty compelling to not view things that trigger those responses. Sensual or violent alike.

As a recovering violent person (grew up fighting all my life), I can attest to the blood boiling when I see certain things that trigger my instinctive reactions to violence. I can can completely understand the mental processes of road rage, having experiencedpersonally. It is amazing though how if I listen to Christian music while driving instead of head banger stuff while driving my aggressive tendencies are greatly reduced, even my tendencies toward compassion, generousity and forgiveness are elevated as people try and run me off the road, cut me off, honk and flip me off, etc...

Gina, any word can become vulgar/commonplace so as to make people ignore it. Growing up here the "N" word was so common in all racial groups that people didn't take that much offense to it as they do today. we have become more sensitive to its use as a society. likewise the "W" word is slowly beginning to be a sensitive use word. Just like someone here said they hear vulgar language all the time at work to the degree it doesn't bother them. Until someone speaks up and express distress at the use of a word, it will remain in common use. I suppose that is why taking the name of God in vain is common place today....people no longer speak out for fear of being labeled a prude or a holy-hypocrite or something. Try misusing the name of Allah though asnsee how far that goes. it won't.

The thesis: The more you are exposed to a vice/evil the less likely you are to be sensitive to it. I believe the more we move toward Christ the more we realize how much of a wretch we really were. Conversely the more we wallow in the world the less we care about the filth around us.
I remember my dad coming back from WW2 and talking about how cheap life seemed to be in the worn torn countries of asia he served in. The more death you see the less moved you are by it. So whatever evil you choose to view the most the less you will be moved to see it as evil.

God have mercy on us when we become numb to evil of any kind. As the prophet cried out, "I am undone! I am a man of unclean lips from a people of unclean lips!"

Jesus warned us, when he said because of the increase of wickedness the love of many will grow cold.

I am also reminded of a great hymn writer who wrote the words "Amazing grace!.... that saved a wretch like me" Strong words from a man who once was proud and hardened.

[Ryan Scott]

God have mercy on us when we become numb to evil of any kind. As the prophet cried out, "I am undone! I am a man of unclean lips from a people of unclean lips!"

I'm not really trying to argue, because your point is strong, but when we try to get too specific we run in to trouble. It would be easy if everything in the world were either good or evil. Avoiding evil would becomes, at least easy to understand, if not do.

The problem is there are pros and cons to everything and our evaluation of those to determine what evil must be avoided and what evil is acceptable because of the good involved is nowhere near an exact science.

[Scott Hilton]

As a recovering violent person (grew up fighting all my life), I can attest to the blood boiling when I see certain things that trigger my instinctive reactions to violence. I can can completely understand the mental processes of road rage, having experiencedpersonally. It is amazing though how if I listen to Christian music while driving instead of head banger stuff while driving my aggressive tendencies are greatly reduced, even my tendencies toward compassion, generousity and forgiveness are elevated as people try and run me off the road, cut me off, honk and flip me off, etc...


See, here is the issue Dale. YOU have a problem while listening to a certain kind of music and how it affects you, YOU are using is this as an example of why it is bad for everyone, yet I don't get affected by it in the same way. I am almost the exact opposite, there are times that I get annoyed listening to the same song over and over again on the local Christian station and I put in some of my "headbanger stuff" and I am calm. My speed actually slows and I could care less about someone cutting me off. Your background and life influences you one how you respond to situations, that doesn't make the music evil, that just highlights the sin in our lives and how we need to respond to it.

Their is Christian "headbanger stuff" as well.

blessings

[Dale Cozby]

See, here is the issue Dale. YOU have a problem while listening to a certain kind of music and how it affects you, YOU are using is this as an example of why it is bad for everyone, yet I don't get affected by it in the same way. I am almost the exact opposite, there are times that I get annoyed listening to the same song over and over again on the local Christian station and I put in some of my "headbanger stuff" and I am calm. My speed actually slows and I could care less about someone cutting me off. Your background and life influences you one how you respond to situations, that doesn't make the music evil, that just highlights the sin in our lives and how we need to respond to it.

Their is Christian "headbanger stuff" as well.

blessings

"Take this rule: whatever weakens your reason, impairs the tenderness of your conscience, obscures your sense of God, or takes off your relish of spiritual things; in short, whatever increases the strength and authority of your body over your mind, that thing is sin to you, however innocent it may be in itself."
-- Susanna Wesley (Letter, June 8, 1725)

What is sin/temptation for you is not for me and vice versa, ok, thats a given as we live free in Christ. The issue is knowing when it is doing what Susanna Wesley said.

I never said you had the same weaknesses as I, but I am glad I gave you some fuel to attack me with by a personal confession of a weakness. Perhaps you should preview your posts once before posting them so you don't come off too harsh. People don't like it when they are being told something may be wrong with the way they view the world or their own life. You and I are no exception.
All I am asking is that we should each examine areas we have left fallow for too long. Such as our entertainment choices. It is easy to see hypocrisy in others, it is hard to see it in ourselves. We need help. As the Psalmist wrote: "Search me O God and see if there be any wicked way in me." I ask that God would open my eyes to be sensitive to things that are subtley affecting me in a bad way or things that I have been insensitive/numb to for years and years. We all have those areas, otherwise we would all be perfect in everyway.

The problem is there are pros and cons to everything and our evaluation of those to determine what evil must be avoided and what evil is acceptable because of the good involved is nowhere near an exact science. I agree that we must constantly decide how to be sensitive to it all, when to shun evil, and when to endure it for a greater good(heaven forbid we get to enjoying our "pet" evils so much we prefer it to our "relish of spiritual things"),
After all what you may be sensitive to as evil, the use of a term you don't like for instance, doesn't hardly make a blip on my radar, while I may be sensitive to things you are oblivious to which you should work on. Thus together, if we accept rebuke/criticism,instruction,enlightening dialog, or whatever method we get the idea across to each other, we become better Christians.

"As iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another."

[Crystal Lutton]

All I am asking is that we should each examine areas we have left fallow for too long. Such as our entertainment choices. It is easy to see hypocrisy in others, it is hard to see it in ourselves. We need help. As the Psalmist wrote: "Search me O God and see if there be any wicked way in me." I ask that God would open my eyes to be sensitive to things that are subtley affecting me in a bad way or things that I have been insensitive/numb to for years and years. We all have those areas, otherwise we would all be perfect in everyway.I wish you had said this in the first post. This I can completely agree with. One reason I have avoided posting in this thread (even though I've started at least two replies) is because it seems (based on the title and the OP) that the assumption is no one here is doing these things already. I felt the need to defend my television viewing choices (which I'm sure include things that many here would not be able to watch and I absolutely affirm their self censorship). I have a degree in Theatre for my undergraduate studies and I know I watch media in a very different way from most of my friends. I'm listening to the script, appreciating the lighting, paying attention to the color and tone choices as well as scene dressing. Yeah, I am watching the plot, but I'm also watching so much more.

There are certain genres that I absolutely avoid. There are some genres that I believe Scripture is absolutely black and white on the value (or lack) of! Pornography is the most obvious example--it's an entire industry that brings nothing good. I've witnessed this with friends my heart still breaks over and I pray for the salvation of so that they may find healing and peace. I know others who have gotten out and I rejoice over that with them! I cannot handle horror films. It makes my spirit sick!

I am very cautious about saying this or that is okay or ungodly and I don't think one firm line in the sand is possible because we all come from different places and are affected differently by things. I can wholeheartedly agree, though, that we should all be ready to examine our own media exposure and especially that of our children! And that self censorship is our right. If your tv offends you, turn it off!

[Scott Hilton]

"Take this rule: whatever weakens your reason, impairs the tenderness of your conscience, obscures your sense of God, or takes off your relish of spiritual things; in short, whatever increases the strength and authority of your body over your mind, that thing is sin to you, however innocent it may be in itself."
-- Susanna Wesley (Letter, June 8, 1725)

What is sin/temptation for you is not for me and vice versa, ok, thats a given as we live free in Christ. The issue is knowing when it is doing what Susanna Wesley said.

I never said you had the same weaknesses as I, but I am glad I gave you some fuel to attack me with by a personal confession of a weakness. Perhaps you should preview your posts once before posting them so you don't come off too harsh. People don't like it when they are being told something may be wrong with the way they view the world or their own life. You and I are no exception.
All I am asking is that we should each examine areas we have left fallow for too long. Such as our entertainment choices. It is easy to see hypocrisy in others, it is hard to see it in ourselves. We need help. As the Psalmist wrote: "Search me O God and see if there be any wicked way in me." I ask that God would open my eyes to be sensitive to things that are subtley affecting me in a bad way or things that I have been insensitive/numb to for years and years. We all have those areas, otherwise we would all be perfect in everyway.


Dale,

If it came off as an attack, my apologies. I thought we were in a discussion here and I simply responded to what you said with my thoughts pertaining to them. When I read your post, it sure came off to me that you were implying that the "headbanger stuff" isn't a good choice of music to listen too. Maybe that is because I have been hearing stuff like that my entire life. That heavy metal will warp your mind and it plays a part in violence. I have always found that a sad statement, since I can tell you I have never been in a fight (other than official ones in Karate) in my life. I guess I didn't understand what you were saying correctly, thank you for gracefully correcting me on what you meant to say.

By the way, before you are too hard on me here. Let me inform you that I generally do preview my posts before I post them, I spent a lot of time on my original response in this thread (which I took seriously), thanked you specifically for bringing this topic up and didn't get any response from it. I ignored the fact that you pointed out specific people on this site and directly questioned their viewing choices. I openly apologize to you if my post came off badly, it wasn't meant to be an attack. But just maybe, you should take your own advice as well.

blessings

[Billy Cox]

Billy, I was stating a principle. Principles stand the test of time as they apply across the generations. I believe that perhaps the principle is even more applicable in the days of 'Two and a Half Men' or 'How I Met Your Mother" than it was to 'Green Acres' and 'Andy Griffith.':basic03

Sure... and I agree that most sitcoms are a wasteland. I would rather watch someone saw off their own foot (which is obviously not real) than to watch a sitcom like Two and A Half Men promote objectification of women (which is all to real). My limited TV viewing schedule does not include any sitcoms right now.

[Dale Cozby]

Scott, yes, when I started this thread and cited the example of trying to watch BSG I knew I would be stepping on toes by addressing it. But I guess it frustrated me, because I really wanted to like that show with them...but couldn't bring myself to watch it due to an aversion to the "f" word. also I have been dealing with someone who is really into horror flicks and I see the affect it is having on dress, and attitude and friendships. The whole Goth walking death/Vampire look stuff.

Anyway, the point about the headbanger stuff you missed is that I wasn't attacking/condemning some musical style I hate, otherwise it would never affect me as I would not ever listen to it. The fact is, I am aware of its subtle affects on me as I listen to it. I used to be a real speed demon, listening to music so loud people three blocks away got to listen to it as I drove by at illegal speeds. But, as I have matured and aged a bit, I, with my wifes help, have come to realize that I fall back into old aggressive driving habits while listening to it.

Crystal, don't feel the need to defend your viewing choices....no one here even knows what they are.;)
But examining them is a good thing to do. I never go to a movie that I don't know what to expect anymore. My wife and I got burned once when we were given tickets to a big premiere. The movie was one everyone here has probably seen, but I won't name it. Well, the movie was about a historical event, and promised great special effects, and cost 100's of millions to make, etc. It was rated PG-13 so I felt safe, generally knowing the story line and with a rating for 13 yr olds I thought OK. The plot generally went t downhill during the whole movie and only had a small redeeming factor at the end.
Needless to say we sat there embarrassed and stunned when the heroine went topless then had sex with the hero. We gave each other the "should we leave" look, but since we were sitting next to her boss who gave us the tickets and her co-workers we endured the rest of the movie for their sake.
Finally, we left and everyone thought it was great, except us. The humorous irony of this all was the next year when it came out on video, her boss gave everyone a copy of it! Gee thanks......haven't ever watched it though, but it taught me to be more careful in the future.

Ok enough confessions for one night.:o

[Barbara Moulton]

Well, I do watch BSG.

And I guess the people who know me best are the ones to judge whether I live a life of Christian witness...despite what you obviously feel is a terrible lapse in judgement. :)

I used to watch one particular soap opera (when I was first a stay at home mom 20 years ago). One day I was convicted in the middle of the show Got up, turned it off right in the middle of the episode. I have never watched a soap opera since. Yet my wonderful grandmother who wouldn`t play cards or go to movies, watched that same soap until shortly before she died.

All this to say that I love my Lord and I try (by the Spirit`s help) to submit to His leading whenever I feel a sense of conviction. That hasn`t happened with this show. Quite the opposite as I have had some deeply spiritual discussions with my daughter as a result of many of the episodes.

Without a doubt, I sometimes wondered why my grandmother continued to watch soaps whose continuing storylines addict the viewer to tales of adultery, betrayal and sinful behaviour. But I looked at the fruit of her life and saw a Christian woman and left it between her and God. It certainly wasn`t my role to judge her based on her viewing habits.

Blessings,
Barbara

[John Kennedy]

My father, now in heaven, began watching a 'soap' sometime back in the 60's when one of his more impressionable members requested prayer for one of the characters.

[Gina Stevenson]

Sure... and I agree that most sitcoms are a wasteland. I would rather watch someone saw off their own foot (which is obviously not real) than to watch a sitcom like Two and A Half Men promote objectification of women (which is all to real). My limited TV viewing schedule does not include any sitcoms right now.

Can't stand violence, so I couldn't take that "saw" you mention. However, I agree that 2-1/2 men is too real in our society, as well, and not at all funny, really ... more like sickening. Tho' many sitcoms are rather unsubstantial, so far as any meaning/"meat" to them, they're more comfortable once a halfway good one is found than anything horrific as a lot of TV seems to be today. Guess I still miss the sort of sitcoms where something meaningful would take place now & then ... like Andy Griffith, ya know. ;)


Scott, yes, when I started this thread and cited the example of trying to watch BSG I knew I would be stepping on toes by addressing it.
This thread's gotten long enough, I can't even remember what BSG stands for! ;P

I never go to a movie that I don't know what to expect anymore. My wife and I got burned once when we were given tickets to a big premiere. The movie was one everyone here has probably seen, but I won't name it. Well, the movie was about a historical event, and promised great special effects, and cost 100's of millions to make, etc. It was rated PG-13 so I felt safe, generally knowing the story line and with a rating for 13 yr olds I thought OK. The plot generally went t downhill during the whole movie and only had a small redeeming factor at the end.
Needless to say we sat there embarrassed and stunned when the heroine went topless then had sex with the hero. We gave each other the "should we leave" look, but since we were sitting next to her boss who gave us the tickets and her co-workers we endured the rest of the movie for their sake .................

Ok enough confessions for one night.:o

Nope. Didn't see it. No idea what movie that might be, but rarely see any anymore, anyway. Glad I missed that one. ;)

My father, now in heaven, began watching a 'soap' sometime back in the 60's when one of his more impressionable members requested prayer for one of the characters.

Oh, how sad! [not your dad watching it, but .........]

[David Parker]

This thread's gotten long enough, I can't even remember what BSG stands for! ;P

Battlestar Galactica (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0407362/) ;)


Nope. Didn't see it. No idea what movie that might be, but rarely see any anymore, anyway. Glad I missed that one. ;)

Sounds like Titanic (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120338/). Overall, I thought it a good movie with a message of love and self-sacrifice. Yes, there is a rather sterile artist scene that briefly shows the female lead topless in an art pose. It wasn't lascivious, but really wasn't needed for the plot.

[Ian Gentles]

Havent read all the answers as I want to be fresh. I believe most Nazarenes are guilty, and knowingly so, of watching TV, reading literature, they shouldent. Holiness means separation from immoral and violent practices, in any form.

[Hans Deventer]

Havent read all the answers as I want to be fresh. I believe most Nazarenes are guilty, and knowingly so, of watching TV, reading literature, they shouldent. Holiness means separation from immoral and violent practices, in any form.

So most Nazarenes aren't sanctified? Seems to me that would be the root of the problem, we're merely discussing symptoms here otherwise.

[Barbara Moulton]

Havent read all the answers as I want to be fresh. I believe most Nazarenes are guilty, and knowingly so, of watching TV, reading literature, they shouldent. Holiness means separation from immoral and violent practices, in any form.

I think most people find it easier to condemn those things that they themselves don't enjoy. When I have every log out of my own eye then I can start looking for the specks in others.

[Dale Cozby]

edited: what is the use.

[Ian Gentles]

I didnt judge any or say they weren't Sanctified. I simply stated many watch, and read stuff, they as Christians know they shouldent.

[Barbara Moulton]

I didnt judge any or say they weren't Sanctified. I simply stated many watch, and read stuff, they as Christians know they shouldent.

How do you know that they know they shouldn't? Do you know their hearts and minds so intimately that you know the convictions that God has brought to them?

If you don't have that knowledge and yet you decide that they are watching something that they shouldn't, it seems like you are judging them. IMHO

My experience is that there is not one Christian who will have the exact same list of "shoulds" and "shouldn'ts" as another Christian.

[Hans Deventer]

I didnt judge any or say they weren't Sanctified. I simply stated many watch, and read stuff, they as Christians know they shouldent.

I don't understand. Sin is defined in Wesleyan circles as a violation of a known law of God, right? If it is clear (as you suggest) that people are watching stuff they should not (again, according to you), then they are sinning. Which, if they were entirely sanctified, they would not be doing. I can't see how you can deny that.

So you are certainly judging, and you are also implying people aren't sanctified.

Now all of this may actually be true!! But if it is, it is far better to discuss the real issue than to be obsessed what people are doing regarding movies and TV.

[Gina Stevenson]

Sounds like Titanic (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120338/). Overall, I thought it a good movie with a message of love and self-sacrifice. Yes, there is a rather sterile artist scene that briefly shows the female lead topless in an art pose. It wasn't lascivious, but really wasn't needed for the plot.

Aha! That explains why I did not even try to see this movie. Until I get "my cruise" in somehow, I refuse to watch anything like this. Decades ago, even, I watched something similar [Katherine Bates I recall under water, but don't recall the name ... oh, yeah: "The Poseidon Adventure"]. That was bad enough. No more shipwreck pics until after my cruise, if ever. :basic05

[Crystal Lutton]

Havent read all the answers as I want to be fresh. I believe most Nazarenes are guilty, and knowingly so, of watching TV, reading literature, they shouldent. Holiness means separation from immoral and violent practices, in any form.
Your statement makes a lot of assumptions.

first, it assumes that what you believe is unholy is known to be the same for everyone
second, you judge and condemn "Most Nazarenes" as "guilty"
third, you define "holiness" in a way that is not consistent with the definitions I have read or would express for it

So you have determined what is holy, redefined holiness according to your definition, then judged "most" as being guilty of violating your definition of holiness.

That seems to be the very heart of what the Pharisees did--that is legalism. My therapist from years ago would caution you not to "should" on others ;)

Why do you get to decide what others should or shouldn't read or watch? Why does your definition of holiness rule? I wouldn't think any of us want that responsibility.

Perhaps your statement came out stronger than you intended.

[Wesley Smith]

You all have raised some interesting and serious issues here. Speaking for myself...it is spiritually best for me to avoid shows that focus on the flesh and humor that is sexually slanted. I'm pretty sure I'm a better pastor, husband and father (and Grandpa) if my mind is not cluttered by stuff that complicates my ability to guide people in a morally good direction. Twenty, or so, years ago I had a brush with some unhealthy association with pornography. It's too long a story to tell, but since that time I've had to use strong methods to "stay on the wagon." I have chosen not to go into video stores and I avoid magazine racks like crazy. My history tab on my computer is available to my wife, family and staff at any time.

My early life was steeped in legalism. Though I think I have been mostly able to shake loose of that demon, I still have a caution in my heart about the "little foxes" that dull my sensitivity to fellowship with Jesus.

My wife and I went to see "Expelled" last evening. While I was sitting there I had the thought totally unrelated to an excellent movie..."Movies are a vehicle through which one can experience right and wrong on the big screen. TV/Videos at home are a vehicle through which one can experience right and wrong on a smaller screen."

In retrospect, we did it wrong. Instead of condemning movies at the theatre, we should have been instructing people how to guard their thoughts. My wife made a classic statement years ago, "Be careful what you let into your mind. Once it's in there, it's in there."

For me...drawing the entertainment line comfortably back from what is allowable or permissable has been a healthy thing to do.

A closing thought. Perfection in this arena is probably more of a process than an attainment. I've noticed that age has helped me in this arena. Several years ago an evangelist came to speak at my church. He was unusually harsh, so harsh that I had him come to my office on Friday evening (Wed. thru Sun.) so I could either call the rest of the "revival" off, or he could change his approach. In that conversation he confessed that he constantly struggled with sexual issues and family issues. His final messages to our congregation were classic...filled with grace and optimism. I could hardly believe the turnaround. Bottom line...we are in this together!

Friend,

Wes

[Ken Pell]

My wife and I went to see "Expelled" last evening. While I was sitting there I had the thought totally unrelated to an excellent movie..."Movies are a vehicle through which one can experience right and wrong on the big screen. TV/Videos at home are a vehicle through which one can experience right and wrong on a smaller screen."

Off topic request for Wes:

Would you write a review of that movie in the Movie Review forum?

They are not showing it here in my community (there are 4 secular universities here and I suspect that has something to do with it) but I'd love to know what people think of it.

[Wesley Smith]

Off topic request for Wes:

Would you write a review of that movie in the Movie Review forum?

They are not showing it here in my community (there are 4 secular universities here and I suspect that has something to do with it) but I'd love to know what people think of it.

Done. I noticed that the professional reviewers of Stein's documentary were nearly universally negative. There was an interesting section in the movie/documentary where "worldview" was significantly discussed. My guess is that most professional movie reviewers are of the Darwinistic worldview. I loved the discussion of where the first cell came from and the enzyme makeup of a single cell. Took some pretty good odds to make it happen. One scientist conjectured that it had to do with crystals. We've had a pretty strong attendance at the movie here in Longview, WA. Don't know if it's been mostly Christians or what, but I did see where the nationwide "take" was over $3m on the first weekend.

Friend,

Wes

[Cindi Hammons]

"Be careful what you let into your mind. Once it's in there, it's in there."

Last night we were watching "Everybody Loves Raymond." Ray's dad said something that grossed them all out, and Ray says, "I want to gouge out my eyes and ears!" His brother Robert quietly says, "You can't gouge out the mind's eye!"

We laughed about it all day today, but in a serious way, it is exactly what your wife said.

[Marg Webb]

Well, I do watch BSG.


OK, WHAT IS BSG???

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

Now, I might be booed off Naznet. I have never been to a movie, or rented a video. There are many people that I truly believe love the Lord, that love movies and videos, but I get bored, usually sitting still and watching a TV program. I spent years sewing a lot, and loved to write letters and send cards. I love pictures and arranging albums, or fixing them in photo boxes. I dearly love arranging flowers. My really big love is reading, but I make an effort to not read anything, that I would not want to pass on to a grandson or daughter.
For a while, we had a ball making baskets etc. out of beads and safety pins. Then, I would put artificial flowers in them. I even took one into intensive care at a Naval hospital once, to a lady.

I enjoyed playing house, or whatever with our daughters, and playing with sports cards and various things with our son. My mother loved to play with the children and/or read books to them. Otherwise, her hands were going steady crocheting, which I can do, also.
So, that is just some things that I do enjoy and am not putting anyone else down.
I sometimes watch documentaries. politics, historical things, etc, and occasionally the last part of Wheel of Fortune with Dwayne.
I might watch something to please somene, or to just be doing something with them, that they enjoy.
I have made some beautiful wedding dresses for our girls, attendants dresses, arranged the flowers made the cakes, mints, etc. and enjoyed it very much. There have been times, at churches Dwayne pastored that I helped direct or directed weddings.
Now, I won't be upset, if you BOO me. ha

[Hans Deventer]

Well, I do watch BSG.


OK, WHAT IS BSG???

Battlestar Galactica http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica

[Ian Gentles]

I apologies to any who felt I was being judgmental or questioning folks sanctification.