What's your relationship with the Church of the Nazarene?

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

No reason, just a topic of conversation...

[Barbara Moulton]

Here's an odd little fact.

I've been a member of NazNet twice as long as I was an elder in the CofN.

I've been an ordained minister in the Wesleyan Church now for eight years.

Time flies.

[Scott Hilton]

Scott,

I was going to thank you for this poll with the "thank you" button, but then I thought about how I could actually answer this poll and that threw my entire poll theology out of whack and now I live in a paradox where I don't like polls because I can never answer them correctly, but have now answered one correctly and that has me re-evaluating my poll theology...........

It must be Monday

[Mike Schutz]

I am a thankful, first generation member of the Church of the Nazarene. And I am thankful to have married a third generation Nazarene. And I am pleased to be raising my children within this fine community of people.

[Donna Adams]

I am a very thankful and proud to be a 4th generation Nazarene, my chldren are the 5th and they are raising their children in the church as the 6th generation. I love our church.

[Jim Franklin]

I am a third generation Nazarene as my grandfather, Freeman Franklin, was a neighboring circuit rider of Phineas Bresee in the Iowa Methodist Conference in the 1870s and 80s. They along with my dad and some of his brothers were charter members of Yakima, WA First In 1904. All considered "pioneers" of the Northwest District. I was born in 1937 and became a member in 1949 when I turned 12 which at the time made me a voting member. The age was later changed to 15. In June I will have been a member for 59 years.

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

Anne is a third generation Nazarene
Dwayne is second generation.

[Brian Hammons]

I was a member from '76 until circa 2002 when I joined another denomination. That "error" will be corrected sometime in the next few weeks when Joyce and I will be joining the membership of the Ravenswood CotN.

edited to add that joining another denomination was due to marrying & relocating, not a dissatisfaction with the church.

[David Molle]

honesty I don't know what makes one a member
or not a member nor have I ever asked.

I consider myself a member, I attend
services on sunday, tithe and most important
to me, witness and learn from what God is doing
for and through my grandsons in their
"Jesus School" and my oldest daughter.

[Alisa Stoll]

I was actually born Quaker but have attended a Nazarene Church since I was ten. My husband's grandfather was 7 and a charter attender when the denomination was founded. He and his wife were preachers for the church. So he has always attended.

Alisa

[Greg Farra]

We're first generation Nazarenes. We were Lutheran for a long time, but we've switched rather than fight!:basic05

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

I was going to thank you for this poll with the "thank you" button, but then I thought about how I could actually answer this poll and that threw my entire poll theology out of whack and now I live in a paradox where I don't like polls because I can never answer them correctly, but have now answered one correctly and that has me re-evaluating my poll theology...........

Yes, you may need to fine tune your poll theology. "Fact" polls are easier to construct than are "opinion" polls. Even with that, I see that someone couldn't identify with the choices I gave. (Well, either that or they are just being contrary!) :)

I've been a member of NazNet twice as long as I was an elder in the CofN. I've been an ordained minister in the Wesleyan Church now for eight years.
Time flies.

Indeed it does - I remember your difficult journey. I'm certainly glad you stayed with us here on NazNet. You are a real asset to this community.

--------------

My Nazarene roots run pretty deep. My maternal grandmother was a member of the denomination in the early days. I'm not as clear on my dad's side, but several of his sisters and other family members were Nazarenes too. So, I'm third generation on one side of the family and also connected on the other side. As of now, my grandkids are 5th generation Nazarenes.

For good or bad, I've never attended another "brand" of church as a home. You might say that one reason I'm a Nazarene is because I just plain don't know any better!

[Gina Stevenson]

(to Barbara Moulton) Indeed it does - I remember your difficult journey. I'm certainly glad you stayed with us here on NazNet. You are a real asset to this community.

Amen! ;) [as one could also say about a certain Scott C]

--------------

My Nazarene roots run pretty deep ......... For good or bad, I've never attended another "brand" of church as a home. You might say that one reason I'm a Nazarene is because I just plain don't know any better!

So, Scott, is this a matter of where the old saw "ignorance is bliss"---which is most of the time actually not true---does ring true, eh? :laughing

[Linda Bechtold]

I am 4th generation Nazarene. I have a membership at a Nazarene church but we attend a non-denominational church.

There is something so final in not being a member anymore but I know we won't be going back.

[Glenda Harvey]

I was raised in the Nazarene Church. My grandparents became Nazarenes in the very early 1900's sometime between 1910 and 1920. I became a member during my teen years. I started attending an Evangelical Friends Church in my early 20's which is where I met my husband who had been raised Episcopaleon. We currently attend a non-denominational Church.

One of my Uncles was a Nazarene Pastor as were two of my brothers. One brother has passed away and the other is a Chaplain for a Hospise program but still ordained through the COTN. My sister is still involved in the Church of the Nazarene so I feel as if I am still closely tied to the Nazarene Church.

[John Kennedy]

Grew up in a Nazarene parsonage - both parents ordained ministers. Left about 35 years ago - simply felt I needed to be elsewhere. It was an amicable parting. Was part of the Free Methodist Church for nearly 20 years and have been a part of a Congregational Church for the last 13.

I have been very favorably impressed with Naznet's role in offering a place for open and honet discussion about issues vital to the church.

[Hans Deventer]

Members since 15-9-1985 (the date Hannie was expected to give birth to Marjo. Thankfully, she waited another week). Since that day the CotN in Dordrecht was officially organised, it couldn't have been much earlier :laughing

Hannie and I both were Dutch Reformed before.

[Tami Martin]

I answered with the last option.

I a very active attender in my local Nazarene church. But not a member. The non-member attender option just didn't sound right in my ears.

[Cindi Hammons]

My maternal grandparents lived in LA during the 1920's and sometimes visited the famous "Glory Barn." When they returned to Ohio, the attended a holiness denomination where my mom was raised, Mennonite Brethren In Christ/United Missionary Church/Missionary Church (the name has changed over the years).

My paternal g-grandfather was a independent holiness preacher in and around Huntington, WV.

When I was born, my parents had gone back and forth between the Churches of Christ In Christian Union and the Nazarene. By the time I was a few months old, they had settled on the CON.

So what am I? First generation Naz? Second generation Naz? I grew up about as "Nancy Naz" as one could be. Took a short detour in a good Methodist church before Elizabeth was born, but then migrated back to familiar territory and haven't strayed since!:)

[Dennis M. Scott]

My paternal g-grandfather was a independent holiness preacher in and around Huntington, WV.


You may recall that I spent my teen years in and around Huntington. I don't believe I am your paternal g-grandfather, but what was his name, and what time frame would have been his?

[Cindi Hammons]

Dennis,

His name was Samuel Via, and I'm sure it was LONG before your time. :) Seriously, he died in 1961, and had lived in Vinton Co., Ohio (McArthur) since the 1940's. He helped build a holiness church around Kenova/Kellog area...kind of on the other side of town from you guys. I'm not sure where...maybe mom will pop in and say for sure. The church is still standing and has some sort of cornerstone or plaque on the building that mentions him. I'm going to have to head over there some day and check it out...I haven't seen it since I was a small child.

Thanks for asking.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

I answered with the last option.

I a very active attender in my local Nazarene church. But not a member. The non-member attender option just didn't sound right in my ears.

I guess that is fine, but it seems to me that a person who attends but isn't a member, no matter involved they might be, is still a person who attends but isn't a member. The questions are just asking for simple facts and aren't a reflection of anything good or bad or dealing with extenuating circumstances.

For the purpose of the poll, even a minister of another denomination who has been filling in as pastor of a church for the past 5 years would still be an attender/not a member.

Still, it's just a poll, so it is not big deal how people respond.

[Tami Martin]

I guess that is fine, but it seems to me that a person who attends but isn't a member, no matter involved they might be, is still a person who attends but isn't a member. The questions are just asking for simple facts and aren't a reflection of anything good or bad or dealing with extenuating circumstances.

For the purpose of the poll, even a minister of another denomination who has been filling in as pastor of a church for the past 5 years would still be an attender/not a member.

Still, it's just a poll, so it is not big deal how people respond.

I guess I see "attender" as someone who just attends. I saw an inference to service in the "active member" option, but not in the non-member options. I figured if you were going to introduce the active part, it should apply whether you're a member or not. There are quite a few members at my church who do nothing but attend. But they are voting members. They just don't serve in any capacity.

edited to add: I went back and re-read the poll. "Active" in the first option is the irrelevant word. I think that's the word I focused on. Without that, I could easily say that I attend, but am not a member of, a Nazarene church.

[David Pettigrew]

I guess I see "attender" as someone who just attends. I saw an inference to service in the "active member" option, but not in the non-member options. I figured if you were going to introduce the active part, it should apply whether you're a member or not. There are quite a few members at my church who do nothing but attend. But they are voting members. They just don't serve in any capacity.

edited to add: I went back and re-read the poll. "Active" in the first option is the irrelevant word. I think that's the word I focused on. Without that, I could easily say that I attend, but am not a member of, a Nazarene church.

Tami,

Would you feel comfortable in sharing why you haven't joined? Don't worry - I'm not trying to talk you into joining. Just from a pastor's perspective, some of my favorite congregants have been "active attenders" whom I would have loved to have in elected leadership positions, but who, for whatever reason, did not want to officially affiliate with the church. The reasons given usually skirt whatever I think the "real" reasons are, so I was just curious as to your perspective.

[Ken Pell]

I answered with the last option.

I a very active attender in my local Nazarene church. But not a member. The non-member attender option just didn't sound right in my ears.

I am curious Tami, why have you chosen not to join?

I have many in my congregation who fall into your category. They are deeply involved and significant players in community but won't join. In fact, they play very key roles but say "no." when it comes to joining. Their reasons don't make sense to me.

I am still attempting to understand why and I'd be curious to hear your rationale.

[David Pettigrew]

Fifth generation on my Dad's side, though my parents were out of the church when I was born.

My family has been in this thing since they started it up, but we're about as "unconnected" as it gets.

My wife came into the CotN as a 9th grader. She was raised in the United Pentecostal Church before that. Let me just tell you something - if you think Nazarenes have issues, talk to somebody that grew up UPC!

[David Pettigrew]

So why aren't you a member? If you are willing to invest in the kingdom via a specific local church ... why won't you identify yourself with it more fully and join?

I have many in my congregation who fall into your category. They are deeply involved and significant players in community but won't join.

For the most part their reasons are, quite frankly, lame.

Why aren't you a member?

If anyone ever needs a "good cop/bad cop", I think Ken and I are your guys.

[Jon Twitchell]

I'm not Scott... so I'm not entirely sure...

But I assumed that he was using "Active Member" as a legal term. We actually have a classification of "Inactive Member" for someone who no longer attends or maintains contact with the church.

So, those members in your church who only sit in their pew and then vote... from a legal standpoint, they're "Active Members" as long as they are listed on the "Active Membership" roster (which presumes that they are attending and/or tithing).

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Tami, I apologize for picking out your post for a reply. Something in the back of my brain was saying, "Don't do it" but the more clueless part of me ignored it and responded anyway.

I'm the one who said it's just a poll. No one should have to justify their answer to an anonymous poll.

As I constructed the poll, I was balancing "member who attends" against "member who doesn't attend." I actually reordered the replies to move "not a member but attends" above "member who doesn't attend" in an effort to provide a bit of weight to the second response over the third one.

Anyway, again, I shouldn't have highlighted your reply and I apologize for doing so.

I guess I see "attender" as someone who just attends. I saw an inference to service in the "active member" option, but not in the non-member options. I figured if you were going to introduce the active part, it should apply whether you're a member or not. There are quite a few members at my church who do nothing but attend. But they are voting members. They just don't serve in any capacity.

edited to add: I went back and re-read the poll. "Active" in the first option is the irrelevant word. I think that's the word I focused on. Without that, I could easily say that I attend, but am not a member of, a Nazarene church.

[Hans Deventer]

For the most part their reasons are, quite frankly, lame.

Why aren't you a member?

Ken, I am a member but if I wasn't and I got the question phrased this way, I would not feel respected. I'd feel like having to defend my view against someone who thinks that the chances are minimal that my view is respectable. That does not feel good.

[Susan Unger]

I am second generation Nazarene on pop's side. His brother pastors the Nazarene church they attended as teenagers.

But, more importantly to me, is that on my mother's side I am 10th generation Christian [and non-Nazarene]. Well, actually one of those generations was maybe not quite so christian as one of my ancestors was definitely a black sheep of the family. But most of my mom's paternal ancestors can be documented to having a saving faith in Christ [either actual statement to such or by inference] going back at least 10 generations. It is this group that I identify with more than with pop's side.

[Jon Twitchell]

Us Naznetters must be the most poll-challenged people on the planet, eh?

:D

[Ken Pell]

Ken, I am a member but if I wasn't and I got the question phrased this way, I would not feel respected. I'd feel like having to defend my view against someone who thinks that the chances are minimal that my view is respectable. That does not feel good.

Hans (and David P). Thank you.

Upon re-reading my response it does sound overly critical and judgmental. That was not my intention at all. I was not assuming or even thinking Tami's reasons were "lame" but it could certainly be read that way.

Immediately after posting this I will go back and edit / rephrase that post.

Tami -- if you have already read that -- my sincerest apologies for the way it reads.

Ken

[Ken Pell]

If anyone ever needs a "good cop/bad cop", I think Ken and I are your guys.

I don't wanna be the "bad cop." I am working on becoming a "better cop."

I am not real good at showing my heart on forums like this.

Thanks for the subtle (and kind) kick in the seat. It was helpful. :)

Ironically, my time as a law enforcement officer really did impact my assertiveness and bluntness. I do not like what it nurtured within me. :gen03

[David Pettigrew]

I don't wanna be the "bad cop." I am working on becoming a "better cop."

I am not real good at showing my heart on forums like this.

Thanks for the subtle (and kind) kick in the seat. It was helpful. :)

Ironically, my time as a law enforcement officer really did impact my assertiveness and bluntness. I do not like what it nurtured within me. :gen03

I was just giving you a hard time, Ken. I attributed it to no-nonsense yankee sensibility. We southerners pour the honey on thick, then twist the knife a little deeper when you turn around!

[David Pettigrew]

Us Naznetters must be the most poll-challenged people on the planet, eh?

:D

Is that "Us" naznetters, as in including Hans and Barbara, or "US" naznetters, as in Hans and Barbara do much better at polls than the rest of the people in this thread?

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Us Naznetters must be the most poll-challenged people on the planet, eh?

:D

It is funny how often the discussion develops, not on the topic of the poll, but about the poll itself.

I'm also interested in how carefully honest people are -- if they can think of a single exception to a statement, even if it is an unlikely one, they will head for "none of the above."

"I attend church every Sunday and have been a member since I was 6 years of age but when I go on vacation each year to visit my aunt I attend a Baptist church with her so I didn't feel right about saying I'm a faithful attender." :)

On the other hand, NazNet is a forum where people discuss things so we can't be surprised when people want to talk about their take on a poll.

[Jon Twitchell]

Is that "Us" naznetters, as in including Hans and Barbara, or "US" naznetters, as in Hans and Barbara do much better at polls than the rest of the people in this thread?

I suppose I should have said "We Naznetters..."

But then someone would have thought that I was talking about little children...

[Sheya Stephens]

My husband and I started our Christian walk in a Nazarene church when we moved here (the pastor's lived right behind us and we didn't know anyone else). It has been almost a year since we left the Nazarene church and currently worship at a non-denominational church. Our current church does not have a membership system. They base it on being a Christ follower.

[Scott Hilton]

My wife, myself and my daughter all came to the Nazarene church together. My mom has a Lutheran background growing up and my dad has a Mixture, his neighborhood church in Woodland, PA changed denominations a couple of times. We didn't go to church, except on special occassions growing up so I don't have a lot of church history. My wife doesn't have much church history either so hopefully together we are giving our daughter some.

We came to the COTN via the SBC.

blessings

[David Parker]

I answered the poll when it first appeared, but didn't realize that we were making comments/explanations...so here I go...

Raised Nazarene, third generation. Grandparents on both sides were Nazarene. Parents met at SNU (when it was Bethany-Peniel) and I grew up at Arlington CoN in Ada, OK. (closed years ago) and Pasadena First when Earl Lee was pastor.

My parents are still very involved. One uncle was a Nazarene pastor years ago, but left to go into teaching. Another uncle was a pastor and missionary for years and is now regional director of the Caribbean region for the CoN.

We attend a non-denominational church, but have fond regards for the CoN.

[Tami Martin]

Well, I was just going to PM David, but since more asked...

My reasons are doctrinal. I can't affirm that I believe in a second work of grace. I believe in sanctification as a process but not as a crisis or a definite work comparable to salvation. I agree with the other articles of faith, but that one holds me back.

I have prayed that if God would like for me to join this church, He'll make a way. Probably by getting my head around Article X. But so far, he hasn't. So for now, I'll just teach adult SS and lead worship and direct the choir and do whatever else God puts out there for me to do. And I'll love that congregation with all my heart.

I'll leave it to you to determine if that's lame. I have thick enough skin not to worry about a little challenge :)

[Kathy O'Connor]

I'm a first generation Nazarene, but my brother-in-law lives down the block from from Pilot Point CotN. Do I get bonus points?:laughing

[Wayne Paul]

I was a third generation Nazarene. I now attend a small United Methodist Church. (See my profile for the full story.)

[Katelynn Scott]

I'm a 4th generation Nazzie who married a 3rd generation Nazzie. Both of my parents are Naz (ordained) pastors. Ryan's grandpa was a Naz. pastor, and his dad, and one of his uncles and now Ryan is going to seminary. Sometimes it feels like I can't escape the Nazarene kingdom. Other times it feels nice and cozy. ;o )

[Meghan Schoonover]

My husband and I are the first Nazarene members in our family. He was raised nominally Episcopal (his mom is now an active Baptist and his brother a UMC) and I was raised Lutheran. Before the Nazarene church I spent 3 yrs. in the UMC and 1 in American Baptist.

[Kevin Rector]

Been a Nazarene all my life. It's the only church I've ever called home. My parents were both born and raised Nazarene. I suppose my grandparents on both sides were not born Nazarene, but they became Nazarene. So I guess I'm 3rd generation on both sides.

[Kevin Rector]

Are we the only denomination where every can give their denominational pedigree? I've never heard anyone say, "I'm fifth generation Methodist".

[Susan Unger]

Are we the only denomination where every can give their denominational pedigree? I've never heard anyone say, "I'm fifth generation Methodist".

One of the parents of the UMC is the EUB which came from the UB which is one of the Brethren churches. My mother [before joining the CotN] is 6th generation UB...which is comparable to saying 6th generation UMC. And actually, since the UB was formed by a merger of some German Reformed and Mennonite folks [of which my ancestors were both] she could claim even further generations as part of a UMC heritage. All these mergers and names though get confusing which is why I just say that I am 10th generation Christian.

[Hans Deventer]

Well, I was just going to PM David, but since more asked...

My reasons are doctrinal. I can't affirm that I believe in a second work of grace. I believe in sanctification as a process but not as a crisis or a definite work comparable to salvation. I agree with the other articles of faith, but that one holds me back.

I don't think that is a lame reason. I myself agree with the Agreed Statement of Belief (and that is what you say yes to when you join, not to the Articles of Faith, strangely enough), but I have one part in the Articles of Faith that I don't agree with as well. For me, it is XVI. I don't believe that "the finally impenitent shall suffer eternally in hell". If the word "eternally" wasn't there, I'd agree. But as it stands, I cannot.

The Agreed Statement of Belief has: "that the finally impenitent are hopelessly and eternally lost". That I do believe. I don't understand why we have two different statements anyway, but I'm glad I can agree with the one I said yes to.

[David Molle]

a bit off topic but would someone explain the
membership process please.
I could ask my pastor but maybe a reply here
would help someone else along with me.

again I apologize for going off topic.

thanks!

[Hal Paul]

Are we the only denomination where every can give their denominational pedigree? I've never heard anyone say, "I'm fifth generation Methodist".

Londa can trace her Wesleyan heritage back to Ralph Lotspeich, a Methodist circuit preacher who was appointed by Francis Asbury & with whom Peter Cartwright began his ministry. I'm fourth generation Naz, but the Wesleyan heritage goes back at least two more generations past that into the ME and German Methodist churches.

I'm not sure why we start counting generations with our Naz heritage though.

[Jon Twitchell]

a bit off topic but would someone explain the
membership process please.
I could ask my pastor but maybe a reply here
would help someone else along with me.

again I apologize for going off topic.

thanks!

The specific process may vary from one church to another. Generally, however, the pastor will hold some membership classes, make sure you understand the core essentials, and then if you desire to become a member he will present your name to the "Evangelism & Church Membership Committee" (or the board, if your church doesn't have a "Evangelism & Church Membership Committee"). Once your name is approved, you are publically received into membership, presented a certificate, and your name is placed on the membership rolls.


107. Full Membership. All persons who have been organized into a local church by those authorized so to do, and all who have been publicly received by the pastor, the district superintendent, or the general superintendent, after having declared their experience of salvation, and their belief in the doctrines of the Church of the Nazarene, and their willingness to submit to its government, shall compose the full membership of the local church; however, only church members who are active members and have reached their 15th birthday shall be entitled to vote in annual or special
church meetings. (29, 35.4, 111, 113.1, 413.3, 417, 427.8, 433.8-33.9)

107.1. When persons desire to unite with the church, the pastor shall explain to them the privileges and responsibilities of membership in the church, the Articles of Faith, the requirements of the Covenant of Christian Character and the Covenant of Christian Conduct, and the purpose and
mission of the Church of the Nazarene. After consulting with the Evangelism and Church Membership Committee, the minister shall receive acceptable
candidates into the membership of the church in a public service, using the approved form for the reception of members (801). (27, 33-39, 110-10.4, 225)

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

My dad was a baptist and my mother was Wesleyan Methodist. Grandmother decided to become a Nazarene, and some of her daughters and their families followed, suit.
Dwayne's grandfather, and great grandfather, on his mother's side, were feetwashing believing ministers. His dad got into the COTN, is an ordained elder, and has two sons that are ordained, and one that is a lay speaker.
On my side, there are others that are ordained elders in the COTN, also, who are fourth and fifth generation Nazarenes.
My dad and our brother were Masons, but I don't know if it will go any further than that. So, I guess we Nazarenes are allowed to trace our Nazarene heritage, also.

[David Pettigrew]

My husband and I are the first Nazarene members in our family. He was raised nominally Episcopal (his mom is now an active Baptist and his brother a UMC) and I was raised Lutheran. Before the Nazarene church I spent 3 yrs. in the UMC and 1 in American Baptist.

Meghan - especially for you!

"Betty Butterfield visits the Lutheran Church" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBJgSbAlO7k&feature=related)

[Meghan Schoonover]

I watched that the other day when you linked to the other one, lol! Lots of Catholic pics in the intro, though. Heh.

[Paul Whitaker]

Third generation Nazarene. Grandpa on my dad's side was a pastor for many years in Texas and Oklahoma. His last pastorate was OK City Capitol Hill 1935-1938.

I was born into the Pilgrim Holiness Church because my parents were teaching at Pilgrim Bible College on N Hill Ave in Pasadena,CA. Paul Rees dedicated me - so they say.

My folks went back with the Nazarene church after leaving their jobs at PBC.

Has been a nice trip.

[Roland Hearn]

honesty I don't know what makes one a member
or not a member nor have I ever asked.

I consider myself a member, I attend
services on sunday, tithe and most important
to me, witness and learn from what God is doing
for and through my grandsons in their
"Jesus School" and my oldest daughter.

David,
I noticed that your original post got lost in a number of others, I also noticed that you bravely asked again and received an adequate response from Jon but I thought I might just add some thoughts to your original statements.

As an organization the Church of the Nazarene has an official membership. Most organizations of the type have them. It gives the power to vote and make decisions that affect the future of the organization. I suspect that incorporation requires some type of membership identification in order to legitimize its activities. The officers of the church and the church board are all required to be official members of the church in order to hold those positions. In reality that is all about legal requirements as well as a way of "controlling" our destiny. We have had a serious commitment to the concept of holiness as an active present transformational reality in individual believers lives. We have had a concern from the beginning that if we do not in some way indoctrinate those that become a part of the church we will loose our effective commitment to those ideals. So for both legal and theological reasons membership has played an important part to those on the "inside" of the church. Hence the speed that this thread gravitated toward the proclamation of the number of generations that individuals have been members of the church. It has been important to us.

However, having said that we have also prided ourselves on being a people that are accepting of others and delighted in causing people to feel like they belong. In my first pastorate I recognized a disconnection at that point. I called for the annual meeting and instructed that only those that were members could vote and found that there were a number of attendees that voted that weren't official members. I took that as a good thing - even though I had to explain to them that their votes didn't count. Since that time I have highlighted the legal obligation that we have to membership voting in our annual meetings but it has always been an uncomfortable thing for me that each year I have to point out to people that they aren't really a "full" part of the church.

Across the years I have gone to the trouble of assuring people that they are members of the church for every reason that you listed even though legally they can't vote and then held a membership class around that time, which usually is a good time to hold them. Our membership classes were always at least four week, one to two hour sessions, going through not only the aspects of membership in the international CON but also of what it meant to have a commitment to the local church. I have always articulated it not only in terms of that commitment from the individual to the church but also of the church to the individual. "It is you saying to us, I believe in this dream, it us saying to you I believe that you are a part of our dream." So while you may not be officially a member of the church it sounds to me that you are a member at heart. Perhaps you could talk to your pastor about the next step.

As for me, I am a third generation Nazarene my family has been involved in the church since it inception in Australia but sadly my children are among a very few fourth generation Nazarenes in the country.

[Jim Poteet]

David,
I noticed that your original post got lost in a number of others, I also noticed that you bravely asked again and received an adequate response from Jon but I thought I might just add some thoughts to your original statements.

As an organization the Church of the Nazarene has an official membership. Most organizations of the type have them. It gives the power to vote and make decisions that affect the future of the organization. I suspect that incorporation requires some type of membership identification in order to legitimize its activities. The officers of the church and the church board are all required to be official members of the church in order to hold those positions. In reality that is all about legal requirements as well as a way of "controlling" our destiny. We have had a serious commitment to the concept of holiness as an active present transformational reality in individual believers lives. We have had a concern from the beginning that if we do not in some way indoctrinate those that become a part of the church we will loose our effective commitment to those ideals. So for both legal and theological reasons membership has played an important part to those on the "inside" of the church. Hence the speed that this thread gravitated toward the proclamation of the number of generations that individuals have been members of the church. It has been important to us.

However, having said that we have also prided ourselves on being a people that are accepting of others and delighted in causing people to feel like they belong. In my first pastorate I recognized a disconnection at that point. I called for the annual meeting and instructed that only those that were members could vote and found that there were a number of attendees that voted that weren't official members. I took that as a good thing - even though I had to explain to them that their votes didn't count. Since that time I have highlighted the legal obligation that we have to membership voting in our annual meetings but it has always been an uncomfortable thing for me that each year I have to point out to people that they aren't really a "full" part of the church.

Across the years I have gone to the trouble of assuring people that they are members of the church for every reason that you listed even though legally they can't vote and then held a membership class around that time, which usually is a good time to hold them. Our membership classes were always at least four week, one to two hour sessions, going through not only the aspects of membership in the international CON but also of what it meant to have a commitment to the local church. I have always articulated it not only in terms of that commitment from the individual to the church but also of the church to the individual. "It is you saying to us, I believe in this dream, it us saying to you I believe that you are a part of our dream." So while you may not be officially a member of the church it sounds to me that you are a member at heart. Perhaps you could talk to your pastor about the next step.

As for me, I am a third generation Nazarene my family has been involved in the church since it inception in Australia but sadly my children are among a very few fourth generation Nazarenes in the country.

Maybe it is time to find some new 1st generation Nazarenes in Australia. Could that be possible?

[Roland Hearn]

Well I think it is Jim. I'm pretty sure that things are going to work out that way. Have you had the opportunity to share on Naznet some of the plans that we have in that direction yet? My absence over recent days has me plowing through trying to catch up on what has been posted. Perhaps we should start a thread in that direction.

[Charles W Christian]

Question:
If my parents and I joined the Church of the Nazarene at the same time (when I was in 8th Grade), does that make me a Second-Generation member, or are both my parents and I a First-Generation member? (Just thinking about my bio when David Pettigrew gives me a cushy appointment some day! :-))....

:thanks):bishop

[David Pettigrew]

Question:
If my parents and I joined the Church of the Nazarene at the same time (when I was in 8th Grade), does that make me a Second-Generation member, or are both my parents and I a First-Generation member? (Just thinking about my bio when David Pettigrew gives me a cushy appointment some day! :-))....

:thanks):bishop

My administration will be nuggle* friendly. However, first consideration will be given to pure bloods for certain appointments, such as district assembly NPH representative.


*nuggle=nazarene+muggle

[Susan Unger]

My administration will be nuggle* friendly.

*nuggle=nazarene+muggle

What's a muggle?

Speaking of several gen of Nazarenes in a family, I heard at NMI convention today that even in China they have people who could be considered 4th generation Nazarene. DR Gunter spoke about being shown a picture from 1941 of the last graduation class of the Nazarene Bible School in China. The woman who showed it to her was a daughter of one of the graduates. She then pointed out her granddaughters to Dr Gunter and said that they were all still in the faith. When my dad heard that his eyes welled up with tears.

[Paula Karr]

What's a muggle?

Finally -- a theological question to which I have the answer! :basic03

In the Harry Potter books, "muggles" are those who are not part of the wizarding world. They are regular humans who have no magical powers. It is, however, possible for two muggle parents to have a child who is a witch or a wizard (therefore qualifying the child for enrollment in Hogwarts). That child is considered "muggle-born." The most famous muggle-born character in the Harry Potter books is Hermione Granger.

Pretty sure most Nazarenes are muggles, or "nuggles."

Paula

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

I have nothing to add, just wanted to bump this poll so others would see it and maybe reply to it.

[Marsha Lynn]

I am curious Tami, why have you chosen not to join?

I have many in my congregation who fall into your category. They are deeply involved and significant players in community but won't join. In fact, they play very key roles but say "no." when it comes to joining. Their reasons don't make sense to me.

I am still attempting to understand why and I'd be curious to hear your rationale.

I ended up here on my way to Scott's new post (which turned out to say only that he had nothing to say :rolleyes:) and thought I would suggest some possibilities:

If I were not a member of the Church of the Nazarene and were considering joining, these are things that might make me hesitant to do so:


Signing the bottom line for agreeing with a rather thick little book of doctrine and behavior guidelines.
Making myself eligible for church responsibilities I might not want. (If I'm not a member, I don't have to say 'no' so often.)
Specific reservations concerning the perceived beliefs of the church (which may or may not reflect the actual agreed belief statements).
Specific behaviors I'm not sure I want to cut out of my life. (Are the benefits of membership really worth the cost? Again, this involves both official and perceived restrictions.)
Reservations concerning the idea of officially tying myself to the other sheep in the local pen.
Inertia. Things are going fine now. Why take the chance that 'marriage' will mess up my relationship with the church and I'll have to go through the pain of 'divorce'?
Family issues. Do I want to join before my spouse is ready to do so? Do I want to pressure other family members to join simply because I'm ready? Are the benefits of membership worth the family conflict joining may bring?


I know a couple of people who are hesitating on the edge of membership right now. I haven't pinned them down concerning their hesitation, but these are the reservations I can imagine for them. I doubt that there's ever just one simple answer. And it is often difficult or too time-consuming for people to sort out for themselves what lies behind their hesitation, let alone convey it to someone else in a way that doesn't sound lame.

Marsha

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Since Marsha has beaten me about the head for doing a post that said nothing, I decided to do one in which I say something, although it probably won't amount to anything in adding to the discussion.

I talked a bit about Church Membership in my sermon last Sunday. I said that in the Church of the Nazarene we have two membership lists.

One, we call the Sunday School Responsibility list. You don't have to do anything to get on that list. If you drive by the church and slow down and look our way as though you might be interested, and if we catch you doing it, we'll probably add you to that list. Basically, it means that we are willing to take responsibility for your spiritual development. We'll pray for you, send you birthday cards, invite you to church, etc.

The second membership is the official Church Membership list. It is made up of those who have committed themselves to the church. Being on that list means that you don't want to try to be a Lone Ranger Christian - that you are willing to accept the spiritual guidance of the church. It means that you are going to support the church in attendance and giving and personal effort. It means that you have looked into what the church is all about and that you like what you have found enough to commit yourself to it.

[Edith K. Thurmond]

My administration will be nuggle* friendly. However, first consideration will be given to pure bloods for certain appointments, such as district assembly NPH representative.


*nuggle=nazarene+muggle

Aw, David, may I please be one of the 'foreign' correspondents in your administration? Since my great-grandmother, grandmother, father and mother, brother, nephew, and great-nephew were/are members of the CotN, there are six generations represented in our family. My great-grandmother and grandmother were charter members and were present at Pilot Point in 1908 for the organization of the CotN. Doesn't that count for something? :basic05

Note: I'll be studying the muggle and nuggle issue more thoroughly. :basic01

Blessings on your upcoming leadership,

[Gene Tatsch]

No reason, just a topic of conversation...

I'm a member, organizationally sidelined, prayingly active.

[Gene Tatsch]

I guess I see "attender" as someone who just attends. .... There are quite a few members at my church who do nothing but attend. But they are voting members. They just don't serve in any capacity.
...

I submit there's issues deeper than visible.
For example, in our situation, current options for church organizations are all so far from the NT church, so far from hosting His manifest Presence, so focused on things other than the Great Command and the Great Commission, so needy of "revival" and "renewal" (to use Dave's terms) that I would now be unable to justify to God adding my name as an organizational member. :gen06
Officially, I'm a "member" (since 1976 and associated with CotN since 1963) who is functionally an "attender" not of my choosing - which is why I checked "none of the above"

[Marsha Lynn]

One, we call the Sunday School Responsibility list. You don't have to do anything to get on that list. If you drive by the church and slow down and look our way as though you might be interested, and if we catch you doing it, we'll probably add you to that list. Basically, it means that we are willing to take responsibility for your spiritual development. We'll pray for you, send you birthday cards, invite you to church, etc.

Did you get to the part about how once you're on the Responsibility list, you will stay there until you: 1) submit an affidavit signed by the pastor and board of deacons of another church stating that they are now taking full responsibility for you; 2) produce a utility bill with a new address at least 50 miles further from the church than the one currently on the books for you; 3) produce the ultimate "change of address" form, AKA a death certificate; 4) threaten to burn the church down if you are ever contacted again?

:p