This world no friend of Grace

[BobHunt]

Recently, Rosie ODonnel made a statement on her show saying that "Radical Christians are scary and dangerous people, worse even than terrorists who blow up buildings."
It was after that, that Time magazine followed her lead and had a statement in the magazine that said "Christians have no right to be the President of the United States, or to be in politics."
Quite a while ago, a woman wrote in to Dear Abby, and whined and complained about her neighbor. You see her neighbor lady had sent her a plate of Christmas cookies with a scripture verse on each one, and the woman whining was Jewish. She was asking Abby to straighten this lady out. The cookie lady was righteously rebuked.
Students have had to watch what they say in graduation speeches.
There was a gay pride parade in Atlanta, and a group of grandmas were there to protest the parade. The police came and hauled the grandmas off to jail and allowed the parade to continue uninterrupted.
If you look close enough, you will see the gradual decline of our country in relation to the only One and True God. I know that there are lots of rumors going around that are simply not true, but there are a lot of things that are true. It is true that prayer is out of schools. It is true that some places other religions are being taught in the classroom, but Christianity is being left out. If you do some indepth research you will find these things to be true.
I suppose that this is really not unusual and I know that right here, in the middle of the spiritual blackness, is where the Light of God can shine the brightest! A candle isnt very bright when the sun is shining, but light a candle at midnight in a dark house and it is soooo much more bright! I am still amazed how strong the light of the Gospel is, especially in the place of spiritual darkness (midnight darkness).
Folks, the world still needs our Message! I know the outcome and satan will NOT win! God's Word does not come back void...it is strong! It can put a home back together, it can deliver from addiction, it can give peace and joy! It is our commission to preach it, teach it and live it!!!!

[Dennis Bratcher]

"Grace" and "radical Christians" are not the same thing. I have seen a lot of Christians, radical or otherwise, that demonstrated very little grace (putting Jesus verses in Christmas cookies for a Jewish neighbor is probably not a good example of "grace").

I wholeheartedly agree that the Gospel “can give peace and joy” and that “it is our commission to preach it, teach it and live it!”

The problem for many is how they teach and preach it. And the fact that some would rather preach it than live it. The sad reality is that some of the problems like those mentioned we have created ourselves.

Grace and Peace,

Dennis B.

[Tami Martin]

You know, if my Bhuddist neighbor wanted to give a presentation at school and my child was forced to participate, I might get upset. I know I have Christian brothers and sisters who would be up in arms.

But we expect "the world" to receive Christians with open arms?

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

[Dale Cozby]

"Grace" and "radical Christians" are not the same thing. True and neither is "sitting on your backside doing nothing but talking about reaching out to your neighbor" the same as "becoming all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some and doing all this for the sake of the gospel, that you may share in its blessings." According to the current mindset, Paul should have shut up and made tents rather than be so eager to preach the gospel. Yep, those tents got people to repent and believe in Jesus so much more than his preaching didn't they?

I have seen a lot of Christians, radical or otherwise, that demonstrated very little grace (putting Jesus verses in Christmas cookies for a Jewish neighbor is probably not a good example of "grace").

Hmm.. I wonder if she put verses referring to Jesus from the OT on them if that would have been OK? Yes, that is just so insensitive to share the gospel message with people of another faith and in such a cram it down your throat method( ha ha). This grandma should be rebuked for being so radical. Thanks for clearing that up Dennis. Uh...aren't you passing judgment on her though?

I wholeheartedly agree that the Gospel “can give peace and joy” and that “it is our commission to preach it, teach it and live it!” Uh...did I miss something? I thought you just blasted someone for "preaching" it on a cookie. What you really mean is "live and let live and if someone asks you about your faith you will try to share without upsetting their delicate little self-esteem balance or pointing out that their sin separates them from God," I think, but this is just my radical opinion that we spend too much time already trying to help them be "good law abiding nice people" who give a nod to the Almighty rather than sharing the glorious gospel message as witnesses and disciples. But that is just my opinion.

The problem for many is how they teach and preach it. And the fact that some would rather preach it than live it. Uh...not to pass judgment here...but aren't you passing judgment on them? Saying they are doing it wrong? Doesn't that run cross grain with what Paul said about "all possible means" seems you are saying we need to do it your way or it is wrong.

The sad reality is that some of the problems like those mentioned we have created ourselves. Yes, spoken like a true Roman Christian I am sure. I can just imagine as "radical Christians" were being called names( like Bob pointed out) and fed to lions in the arenas of Rome that some of their fellow "Christians" were saying "Well, you brought this on yourself by shooting off your mouth about your faith when you should have just burned the incense and acknowledge Caesar as Lord and shutup."


Grace and Peace to you as well Dennis.:basic01

Some other random thoughts and some annoying hated "proof texts"
"In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted," Hmm...not much persecution here so....logically......not much wanting to live a godly life either.

"Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ." Hmmm....I wonder what we do or don't do to avoid being persecuted. I am sure we can find lots of excuses for it too.

"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. " So, I kinda read that presecution comes with the territory. Perhaps some don't, but then I wonder about them as much as they wonder about me I suppose. Seems some want to just live in "favor of the people" without ever a downside.

"How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!" seems preaching at least did play a part in the process back then, evn if many think it doesn't today.

We already have too many people who talk about being "fishers of men" and not enough being "fishers of men." I thank God somebody shared the gospel with me in a way that brought conviction in accordance with the Holy Spirit.

Don't agree with me? How many people have you "Andrewed"(this oughta be a word) to Christ personally? How many many have you personally witnessed to & prayed with as they recieved Christ? How many expect the Pastor to do this with everyone either behind closed doors or at an altar call making it where you don't feel responsible personally(afterall we pay him to do that)? All we have to do is look at our "professions of faith" each year divide our annual church income and we get a picture as to how effective we are. What was the last firgure I heard? Something like: We spend $80,000 a year per new Christian? or is it that we spend a whole lot on ourselves and a few new Christians are the by-product of all that spending. Ouch.....let's figure out a way to make us less uncomfortable with our lack of success in this area. So let's look at other things like how many meals we gave out, or how many went on "Work and (uh whats that other word) trips, how many sat in worship hour, etc....

Man...I just kinda went off there didn't I?:o

Don't you hate it when people a part of the church act like family( just speaking thier mind openly) instead of behaving like new visitors( just saying nice things about our floral center-piece?

OK, rant over....

[Charles W Christian]

Well, in defense of Dennis a bit: Sometimes we Christians would rather come across as "right" than come across in the right way. We are called not just to "speak the truth," but to do so in a Christlike manner -- "full of grace, seasoned with salt," etc. The Bible does say that. We're not allowed to pick our own method, apparently. Not to say that cookies are a harsh method (seasoned with sugar? :basic02), but it could be a bit passive agressive.

My wife's family has a relative who is a Bible Baptist and believes only her group will be saved. So, she sends out these Christmas cards that sort of passively agressively remind everyone that they're not as saved as they think they are. On the one hand, I think it's nice that she cares that much about everyone's apostate souls :basic03. On the other, I think it's rather annoying, and she ends up making the real non-Christians in the family more aggravated (everyone has a radar for passive-agressive kinds of comments).

Sooo.... the hard work of the Gospel is not just saying things for the "Jesus team." Rather, it is building relationships with others for the sake of love and allowing the love of Christ in our own lives to draw them -- through both our actions AND our words -- to Christ.

Just thoughts....

Charles

[Ryan Scott]

I'm pretty sure Dennis's only point was that none of those things represent "grace" as the title of the thread implied.

I tend to agree, no matter what the opinion of each action is, none of them really fit with the title of the thread.

[Scott Hilton]

I will take a cookie with anything on it and not be offended, I think that is the ultimate act of grace, accepting cookies no matter what they say without complaint.

[Dale Cozby]

I will take a cookie with anything on it and not be offended, I think that is the ultimate act of grace, accepting cookies no matter what they say without complaint.


WOW! Scott, now you just may be on to something there. Showing grace to everyone, even fellow Christians that come off a bit passive-aggressive.

Sorry to say this but alot of folks these days would rather feed thier brothers in Christ to the lions than risk offending a non-Christians "sensibilities".

Being paralyzed by fear of offending the easily offended has stopped a lot of witnessing in the western world. Maybe the best way of dealing with the world is to show grace to each other first.

When the JW's come to my home, I open my door, after looking through the peep hole, and I politely listen to what they want to say and graciously thank them for thier magazine, then I sit down and read to see what it says. I never mention that i have about 20 books in my library about thier religion and what is wrong with it.

When the Mormons came through a year or so ago, I invited them in and invited them back and had some very good conversations with them about thier faith and mine. We even found common ground to stand on( but we didn't drink any iced tea or coffee together.) i even blew the dust off my copy of the Book of Mormon to follow along with them. I think they went out with eyes opened to how gracious people who claim Christ, apart form the Mormon faith can be.

Seems they get a lot of flak for thier efforts, but both of those groups seem to be growing faster than any other groups in the USA today. Wodner why? Perhaps they might just be on to something.....doing what they think is right even if those who are perishing want to jeer and ridicule them for it.

In response to Charles and the above thoughts. This sounds like the chicken and the egg arguement. Those who think you have to show people how Christian you are by your actions before you can speak while judging people who speak first and show later.

So who thinks you must show the how kind and loving you are first and speak later? and who thinks it might work to speak first and show later?

Judging from the groups above and most denominations numbers, speaking first seems to work better than showing first.

[Ryan Scott]

Maybe the best way of dealing with the world is to show grace to each other first.


That's very true. Perhaps we should be judging the woman not on giving the cookies, but on how she responded when she didn't get the reaction she expected. If only we knew what that was?

[Randy Wise]

I will take a cookie with anything on it and not be offended, I think that is the ultimate act of grace, accepting cookies no matter what they say without complaint.

God forbid if they start doing that with cake. I guess we can show grace and take that offering as well. :)

Randy

[Dennis Bratcher]

Man...I just kinda went off there didn't I?:o

Yeah. But then I've come to expect that.

Grace and peace,

Dennis B.

[Crystal Lutton]

So who thinks you must show the how kind and loving you are first and speak later? and who thinks it might work to speak first and show later?I believe that love has to be the context in which we speak the truth. I don't think we have to convince anyone of the love before we gain the right to speak, but I believe when we really love them they know it. When we really love them we take a little more time to know our audience and our message is more likely to hit its mark.

[Dale Cozby]

Yeah. But then I've come to expect that.

Grace and peace,

Dennis B.

Awe Dennis, life would be boring if no one ever poked at you. :fav13 :basic03

Hey I get a good poking in here sometimes. The nail that sticks out gets hammered, guess that is why.


Fortunately we are all covered by grace huh?:fav12

[Scott Hilton]

That's very true. Perhaps we should be judging the woman not on giving the cookies, but on how she responded when she didn't get the reaction she expected. If only we knew what that was?
Or maybe on the heart that caused her to do it in the first place?

[Randy Wise]

That's very true. Perhaps we should be judging the woman not on giving the cookies, but on how she responded when she didn't get the reaction she expected. If only we knew what that was?

If she had a good teacher she would state "You shouldn't be looking at me. You should be looking at the testimony given to you".

Randy

[BobHunt]

We lived way out in the country. My Dad was outside one day, working on the old Ford tractor, and a car came in the drive. Out of it stepped 2 guys all dressed up in three piece suits. They were seven day adventists. They came over and started talking to my Dad and they had no idea what they were getting into, because my Dad knew his Bible. He started witnessing to them, quoting the scriptures, and when they left they were very quiet and teary-eyed. I know they did not ever forget that conversation!