At what point are we saved?

[Garth Lahana]

Please make a choice for the five options below, choosing once for the salvation part, and one for the importance you feel your first choice has.

[Hans Deventer]

Please make a choice for the five options below, choosing once for the salvation part, and one for the importance you feel your first choice has.

Garth, it seems to me it is Biblical to say I was saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved. To keep those 3 in balance is quite important.

[Ryan Scott]

I agree with Hans and therefore voted for each and every option. They all seem like good answers to me.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

I think it can be likened to marriage. There is a process leading up to the wedding and even greater growth after it. However, there is a time and place when they commit to one another - a crisis, so to speak.

If you are thinking specifically of the born again experience I think there is a strong parallel. At some point an individual comes to faith in Christ and is born again. That doesn't mean there hasn't been a process leading up to that event and there is surely a lifetime, and eternity, of "being saved" to follow but the crisis is, well, the crisis!

[Billy Cox]

Please make a choice for the five options below, choosing once for the salvation part, and one for the importance you feel your first choice has.

Considering that we have practically zero information about how most of the people in the Bible were 'saved', I have to conclude that *when* someone's faith journey begins is largely irrelevant in the eternal scheme of things.

The where, when and how of the beginning of our faith journey are interesting details but are far from being normative or prescriptive.

If someone tells me that they have a been a Christian all of their life and they exhibit the fruit of the Spirit, I will not even hesitate to believe them.

[Garth Lahana]

I think it can be likened to marriage. There is a process leading up to the wedding and even greater growth after it. However, there is a time and place when they commit to one another - a crisis, so to speak.

If you are thinking specifically of the born again experience I think there is a strong parallel. At some point an individual comes to faith in Christ and is born again. That doesn't mean there hasn't been a process leading up to that event and there is surely a lifetime, and eternity, of "being saved" to follow but the crisis is, well, the crisis!

Yes thank you Scott, I feel the same as you do. I see it as a point, a conscious choice we have to make, and from there on we should start to grow and become mature Christians. I also see it, just like in a relationship that there also has to be a start, just like when we met our spouse-to-be for example.

Garth, it seems to me it is Biblical to say I was saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved. To keep those 3 in balance is quite important.

On the other hand what you say Hans, I can understand, but still believe that even in the gradual process, there will be a point when we make a choice, no matter how subtle it may seem at the time. I am brought to think of the famous verses from Romans... chapter 10, verse 9 & 10, where Paul says:that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
To me the word confess is a point in time. If I search for phrase being saved in the Bible, one of the references I found it in is 1 Corinthians 1:18:For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
The being saved part is relative to the context is is mentioned in. Perishing is mentioned in the same context as being saved. Something we are moving towards but already have in Christ, if we continue down our current path.

[Hans Deventer]

I don't think I have a lot to add, Garth. I simply can't put it in either/or terms as the poll did. Of course there is a start somewhere, but without continuation it is useless (Ezek 18).

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

When we are converted, and become a Christian-- at the moment, we truly believe in Christ, and His shed blood, that was spilled for our sins. But, we continue to grow and mature in our faith.
At the moment of our justification, we are forgiven of our sins, up to that moment. We may not be at the point, of knowing how to totally commit our life to Him, at that moment.

[John Kennedy]

Would I be thought too post-modern (now ain't that a hoot?) in stating that even the best of our theological categorization and terminology is, only an approximation of what actually happens when we encounter the living Lord?

What language shall I borrow to thank thee, dearest friend,
For this thy dying sorrow, thy pity without end?
O, make me thine forever! And should I fainting be,
Lord, let me never, never outlive my love for Thee.

[Billy Cox]

Would I be thought too post-modern (now ain't that a hoot?) in stating that even the best of our theological categorization and terminology is, only an approximation of what actually happens when we encounter the living Lord?


I could suggest that nothing in the Bible suggests that this encounter can *only* be due to newly acquired facts and knowledge. Could someone have an encounter with the living Lord without having encountered Christianity?

[Susan Unger]

Please make a choice for the five options below, choosing once for the salvation part, and one for the importance you feel your first choice has.

I wasn't sure what you were asking in the second part - did you mean can one remember the date and event of salvation?

[Garth Lahana]

I wasn't sure what you were asking in the second part - did you mean can one remember the date and event of salvation?

What I was trying to ask is whether you feel that the part of your life where you were saved, was important or not. As I can see by the results thus far in this thread, we don't all feel that same about it. If your salvation as a journey, as many do, the importance seems to be irrelevant as no point can be picked out.

I hope I'm making sense in how I'm trying to answer your question Susan.

[Hans Deventer]

What I was trying to ask is whether you feel that the part of your life where you were saved, was important or not. As I can see by the results thus far in this thread, we don't all feel that same about it. If your salvation as a journey, as many do, the importance seems to be irrelevant as no point can be picked out.

There are people that can't point to a moment of salvation, like me. I've been raised in a Christian family and I have always believed the gospel. Faith has deepened through the years, but I don't recall a moment that it has been absent.

[Garth Lahana]

There are people that can't point to a moment of salvation, like me. I've been raised in a Christian family and I have always believed the gospel. Faith has deepened through the years, but I don't recall a moment that it has been absent.

Point taken, thanks Hans.

[Susan Unger]

What I was trying to ask is whether you feel that the part of your life where you were saved, was important or not. As I can see by the results thus far in this thread, we don't all feel that same about it. If your salvation as a journey, as many do, the importance seems to be irrelevant as no point can be picked out.

I hope I'm making sense in how I'm trying to answer your question Susan.

I think you've answered my question. I agree with Hans that there are people that can't point to a moment of salvation... who've been raised in a Christian family and have always believed the gospel. Faith has deepened through the years, but they can't recall a moment that it has been absent. So I was wondering if you were asking for a date in time as the DAY to celebrate. But it appears as you weren't.

[Dale Cozby]

I could suggest that nothing in the Bible suggests that this encounter can *only* be due to newly acquired facts and knowledge. Could someone have an encounter with the living Lord without having encountered Christianity?

If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

Seems to me, that in a relativistic world Jesus isn't important to know by name. And I am sure many will just contextualize this scripture away, but it seems to me that coming to the living God is a lot easier when someone preaches who He is and what He has done....

Not that some people don't just cry out to the "Unknown God"... and are saved, and

I am not sure what concept of the Supreme God would be so wrong/corrupt that a person could not be saved by crying out to Him as Creator/Sustainer but I am glad that someone brought the good news to me and I don't just have to grope through life without knowing the story.

[Billy Cox]

There is one way to God, but there are many ways to Jesus - probably more than any one denomination endorses.

I believe that there are Romans 4 (simple faith credited as righteousness) followers of Christ out there, but I agree with you :eek: that it is the hard way to go.

I don't explain away the verses that you quote, but I do not see them as the one-and-only salvation formula.

Check out Romans 1:18-20
[QUOTE]18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

The main point of this passage is that creation itself 'preaches' the existence of God. On one hand, it means that ignorance is no excuse for wickedness. On the other hand, it also means that God is fully capable of operating outside of religious categories.

[John Kennedy]

The main point of this passage is that creation itself 'preaches' the existence of God. On one hand, it means that ignorance is no excuse for wickedness. On the other hand, it also means that God is fully capable of operating outside of religious categories.[/QUOTE]

Billy -

I think you just answered the question you asked me. That's exactly what I was attempting to say.

[Gina Stevenson]

Would I be thought too post-modern (now ain't that a hoot?) in stating that even the best of our theological categorization and terminology is, only an approximation of what actually happens when we encounter the living Lord?

What language shall I borrow to thank thee, dearest friend,
For this thy dying sorrow, thy pity without end?
O, make me thine forever! And should I fainting be,
Lord, let me never, never outlive my love for Thee.

Please do tell us what hymn title to look for to find the rest of the lyrics. Don't recall seeing this one. Thanks.

What I was trying to ask is whether you feel that the part of your life where you were saved, was important or not. As I can see by the results thus far in this thread, we don't all feel that same about it. If your salvation as a journey, as many do, the importance seems to be irrelevant as no point can be picked out.

While there are some who've asked people things like, "But what date!?" I can understand how many don't know any exact date. Don't know any myself, altho' I'd have to say it was the week in which my 10th b'day occurred. As for assurance thereof, well that --- amazingly, or maybe not(?) --- took up until I was more like 30ish, through hearing folks dish out enough grace that I realized I wasn't condemned, tho' yet imperfect. ;)

[Susan Unger]

Please do tell us what hymn title to look for to find the rest of the lyrics. Don't recall seeing this one. Thanks.

"What language shall I borrow..." is O, Sacred Head Now Wounded. The tune is from Bach.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_Sacred_Head%2C_Now_Wounded

[Gina Stevenson]

Hey, I know that hymn, "O Sacred Head ..." Guess I just was not familiar enough with some of the verses to recognize it. Thanks!

[Susan Unger]

Hey, I know that hymn, "O Sacred Head ..." Guess I just was not familiar enough with some of the verses to recognize it. Thanks!

I figured you would since you are a musician. :)