80% of North American Naz. Churches Plateued or Declining?

[Houston Thomas]

Hello,

One of my former classmates posted this information in his blog (http://troyhochstetler.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/thursday-feature-you-do-the-math/)that came for Ed Stetzer's book Turnaround Churches.
“Since 1995, the Nazarenes had 1,551 existing churches grow by 10 percent or more and 2,620 decline or close during that same period. Staying close to the same, they had 3,889 churches plateau over the past ten years. About 80 percent of Nazarene churches are plateaued or declining since 1995.”

Admittedly, I'm rather new to this conversation of Nazarene Renewal but I have never seen those statistics before. Are they new to you as well?

If this is indeed the case, a restructuring is certainly needed.

[Dave McClung]

Hello,

One of my former classmates posted this information in his blog (http://troyhochstetler.wordpress.com)that came for Ed Stetzer's book Turnaround Churches.


Admittedly, I'm rather new to this conversation of Nazarene Renewal but I have never seen those statistics before. Are they new to you as well?

If this is indeed the case, a restructuring is certainly needed.

I have not done the research to confirm the statistics, but they seem reasonable.

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

You know, it really pleases me to hear of the great growth in foregn lands. That is a big part of what we are all about. For years we have tried to work at home, and abroad to evangelize the lost and win them to Jesus. Hoorah, something has been acomplished. The old fashion Biblical route is always the right way.

Now we need to fast and pray, for the out pouring that we have read many times in 2nd Chronicles 7:14 Don't let up on the mission work abroad, but get a new vision from on high, and a new zeal for souls in this present age in our own country, our own vineyard, and our our zion (COTN.) Some things come about only by prayer and fasting. We can figure, rezone, form comittees, re-organize, etc. all we want to, but until things are taken off the table and to our knee, if we can kneel, nothing miraculouus is going to happen--no matter whether there are changes made in '09 or not.

If we do not have a vision (and pray), the people perish. But, Dwayne always encourages others by saying, "We are always, doing more than we think we are." Again, as I said in another post, a few minutes ago---GO FIGURE!

[Houston Thomas]

That is certainly interesting. I would be interested to know how the CoTN compares to other denominations in N. America.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around those numbers - 80%? Obviously things need to change significantly. Maybe the first step is to come to that realization.

[Ken Pell]

I will not defend or defy the statistics they are embarrassing but I will say:

> This does not mean people are not coming to faith or becoming disciples. It does mean WE are not keeping them. Mobility? Philosphy? Theology? Polity?

> I am pretty sure these statisics are in line with national averages. Once again ... why? What is the dynamic (s) in play?

[Mike Schutz]

Are the numbers based on membership or worship attendance?

[Houston Thomas]

Good question and one that I am unsure of. I'm sure that in Stetzer's book he lays out his methodology but I don't have access to that right now.

[Billy Cox]

Hello,

One of my former classmates posted this information in his blog (http://troyhochstetler.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/thursday-feature-you-do-the-math/)that came for Ed Stetzer's book Turnaround Churches.


Admittedly, I'm rather new to this conversation of Nazarene Renewal but I have never seen those statistics before. Are they new to you as well?

If this is indeed the case, a restructuring is certainly needed.

I wonder what percentage of the growing churches are fudging their stats. :basic05

[Billy Cox]

Are the numbers based on membership or worship attendance?

I hope it's worship attendance since membership stats are virtually meaningless.

[Billy Cox]

Hello,

One of my former classmates posted this information in his blog (http://troyhochstetler.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/thursday-feature-you-do-the-math/)that came for Ed Stetzer's book Turnaround Churches.


Admittedly, I'm rather new to this conversation of Nazarene Renewal but I have never seen those statistics before. Are they new to you as well?

If this is indeed the case, a restructuring is certainly needed.

Well, if we want to ape the success overseas, we need to 'destructure' since the growth in the Horn of Africa has nothing to do with organization charts and policy implementation.

I have yet to hear of a church in which a turnaround was precipitated by reshuffling the leadership.

[Eric Frey]

A letter to the editor in this month's The Living Church (a weekly publication of the Anglo-Catholic Church: http://www.livingchurch.org/ ) someone wrote:

"Indeed, Orthodox churches could make more effort to welcome visitors. We rarely have "greeters." However, the Orthodox Church is growing. My own Anthiochian archdiocese has about four times as many churches as it had 40 years ago - mostly converts. Last week I visited the new Orthodox monastery in Kenosha, WI, which with 19 young nuns is full nearly to capacity... Perhaps evangelistic techinques aren't the chief cause of church growth?"

Interesting.

[Gary Swartzlander]

I don't know that you have to look much further than the churches around you or listen to churches report at District Assembly to know that is probably accurate.

[Dave McClung]

Hello,

One of my former classmates posted this information in his blog (http://troyhochstetler.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/thursday-feature-you-do-the-math/)that came for Ed Stetzer's book Turnaround Churches.


Admittedly, I'm rather new to this conversation of Nazarene Renewal but I have never seen those statistics before. Are they new to you as well?

If this is indeed the case, a restructuring is certainly needed.

In my own review, which I know was not scientific, I concluded that only 10% of Nazarene Churches are really doing well.

[Barb Bouldrey]

Most denominations are aging and failing to gain new young members unless they have been raised in the church and never stop attending.

When I was a child I had no choices of things to do besides go to school, play with the children in my neighborhood, do my homework and go to bed....except for church activities.

Now we compete with a very active world that has so many choices for our youth...and they lure of the world is stronger than the message of the Cross. Why? Because the churches are failing to make the Message of the Cross more appealing than the entertainments of the world. We are failing to love people and make a deliberate effort to reach them for Christ.

We have become too busy to reach the lost in an effective way.

Barb

[Eric Frey]

Most denominations are aging and failing to gain new young members unless they have been raised in the church and never stop attending.



There are none older than the Orthodox church, yet this trend aparently is not true for them.

[Hal Paul]

There are none older than the Orthodox church, yet this trend aparently is not true for them.

According to the National Council of Churches (http://www.ncccusa.org/news/060330yearbook1.html) the Orthodox Church in America gained 6.4% in 2006. The next closest church growth was in the Assemblies of God with 1.81% followed closely by the LDS (Mormon) with 1.74%, the Roman Catholic Church also reported an increase of .83%. Unless I missed one, all other denominations in their sampling had negative growth or did not report any change (the Church of the Nazarene was not one of their listed denominations).

[Barb Bouldrey]

Of course, it says 80%....that leaves SOME that are growing.

Barb

[Jim Franklin]

GS Middendorf stated last Wednesday that the percentage of Nazarenes in Anglo-America is down to about 36 and probably could be 33 by GA. He told that at one district in the Horn of Africa that in his first district assembly at that district there were 80 delegates and the very next year there were 800. Can you imagine people who had never voted on anything before having explained to them what was meant by "voting" and what the results of voting would be. Not to elect someone from outside the US as a GS would be discriminatory at this point. These statistics would suggest that only 2 of 6 should me Norte Americanos.

[Hal Paul]

GS Middendorf stated last Wednesday that the percentage of Nazarenes in Anglo-America is down to about 36 and probably could be 33 by GA. He told that at one district in the Horn of Africa that in his first district assembly at that district there were 80 delegates and the very next year there were 800. Can you imagine people who had never voted on anything before having explained to them what was meant by "voting" and what the results of voting would be. Not to elect someone from outside the US as a GS would be discriminatory at this point. These statistics would suggest that only 2 of 6 should me Norte Americanos.

I think that percentage decline is due more to the rapid growth of the church outside the US than because the North American church was declining so rapidly. I think your HOA illustration bears that out; is that how you understood it?

[Billy Cox]

I think that percentage decline is due more to the rapid growth of the church outside the US than because the North American church was declining so rapidly. I think your HOA illustration bears that out; is that how you understood it?

This is true. The church in USA/Canada could have 1% growth and still represent a smaller slice of the overall global work of the Church of the Nazarene.

The fact that our categories for comparison are still 'USA' or 'non-USA' suggests that we are still hanging on to 'us and them' thinking.

[William Hunter]

Dave, your figure is probably closer to the truth. Research done by reputable people like Thom Rainer say that less then 10% of the churches in America are showing true convert growth. Most are merely moving sheep from pen to pen.

A pet peeve of mine, if you will, is how often a pastor has played the game well enough to be recommended to larger and larger congregations, but in truth, when looking at their stats, they did not show any real gain, they just raised alot of money. Then they are paraded out as experts in church growth when, in fact, they have not grown anything, they have just moved from one size church to another.

I think we need to take a look at those pastors, regardless of church size, who have seen significant true growth in their congregations. Since mostof our churches run under 75 on a given Sunday, those pastors who have taken that size existing church and seen it grow with true growth, to about the 200 figure are the pastors we need to be listening to. They have actually "done it" and have insights that many congregations need to hear and learn, but this is not the way we do things. I think our focus on who we use as models for church leadership needs to change some.

On our dist. we have one pastor of our largest church who has lead his church in some of the most profound growth I have seen on any district in these almost 34 yrs. of ministry. As far as I am concerned, here is a pastor I need to listen to, rather than some pastor who has merely inherited the church size he has.






In my own review, which I know was not scientific, I concluded that only 10% of Nazarene Churches are really doing well.