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Marsha Lynn
2nd June 2008, 09:54 AM (09:54)
How many are part of a class using them? NazNet's own Russell Metcalfe is the author of the first set of lessons! Excellent reading, even if you aren't part of a small group discussing them.

I hoped to start this thread before the first session, but I waited too long and then there was this explosion, see ...

Marsha Lynn
2nd June 2008, 10:02 AM (10:02)
We had fun with this lesson. I brought in a YouTube version of the theme from The Beverly Hillbillies just to set the scene for moving and culture shock. The youth group was off camping for the weekend, which took four of my class members away for the day as chaperones, but brought in two lonely left-behind teens and their teacher, my husband Dave. When I threw out the question of what method God used to speak to Abram (something not addressed at all in that section of scripture), my cut-up husband suggested banjo with Flatt and Scruggs. I'm thinking that might be it!

The Lord said, "Abram move away from there!"
He said, "The land of Canaan is the place you ought to be"
So he loaded up his camels and he moved to Galilee.

:p

Looking forward to next week!

Russell Metcalfe
2nd June 2008, 10:15 AM (10:15)
Thanks! Makes an old guy happy!
Russ

Virginia Stimer
2nd June 2008, 12:05 PM (12:05)
We were wondering why UPS sent our order of Sunday School supplies back to NPH. Do you think maybe they know something about the author that we ought to know??

Actually, we no longer have a church secretary on duty at the church and since they found no one there, UPS sent the order back! However, I was filling in for our regular teacher and knew lessons were available on line so I contacted Word Action people for the passwords and downloaded the lesson. I did enjoy leading our group but am glad our regular teacher will be back next Sunday. Hopefully our order will be returned to us today with delivery at the home of our pastor.

I'm sorry that the name of the author did not register with me but now that I know he is on NazNet I will pay more attention!;)

Virginia

Susan Unger
4th June 2008, 01:53 AM (01:53)
How many are part of a class using them? NazNet's own Russell Metcalfe is the author of the first set of lessons! Excellent reading, even if you aren't part of a small group discussing them.

I hoped to start this thread before the first session, but I waited too long and then there was this explosion, see ...

My ss class uses them. Although, I am on vacation for this sunday so won't be apart of the fun.

Marsha Lynn
4th June 2008, 09:14 AM (09:14)
Two weeks ago when studying Phineas Bresee, I played both Nazbo Rap (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD-puhMT2SI) videos. Last week when talking about Abram moving to a distant land, we started out with the theme song from The Beverly Hillbillies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZp2JcmUU6o).

So this week's lesson includes the scripture where Lot pitched his tents near Sodom. Dare I bring in Blake Bergstrom's unfortunate slip of the tongue (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD-puhMT2SI)* to a Nazarene Sunday School or is it time to be done with taking YouTube to Sunday School? This may call for a NazNet poll.

*Warning: There is good reason why this is not an obvious choice and why the poll will not be posted on the "Good Clean Fun" forum.

Jon Twitchell
4th June 2008, 09:19 AM (09:19)
let your better angels prevail...

it's time to be done taking YouTube to Sunday School...

Did you see the legal fallout from that unfortunate slip of the tongue?

Darren Joyce
4th June 2008, 10:20 AM (10:20)
let your better angels prevail...

it's time to be done taking YouTube to Sunday School...

Did you see the legal fallout from that unfortunate slip of the tongue?

Unless I'm missing something, as a prank, fake fcc agents came to tell him he is in big trouble.

Jon Twitchell
4th June 2008, 11:46 AM (11:46)
Unless I'm missing something, as a prank, fake fcc agents came to tell him he is in big trouble.

Yes...

But I wasn't going to say it was a prank... I was hoping someone would go looking for it... :)

Rich Praytor (I think is his name) runs a series of YouTube videos called "Prank 3:16." In them, he attempts to do funny pranks and apply some sort of a Biblical lesson. I'm not sure how successful he is at the Biblical lessons... but some of the pranks are pretty funny!

Barb Bouldrey
7th June 2008, 05:21 PM (17:21)
In tomorrow's lesson, I am going to spend some time exphasizing "Canaan" and why God kept directing His people to go there, why God wanted them there, the trouble between His people and what is Canaan today, and what Canaan means to us spiritually.

I also want to point out that Abram's behavior in allowing Lot to choose first ended up giving Abram more after that than he had at the time of the dividing.

I started reading the Bible through, again, last week, and in the chapters on Noah I was drawn to who the original Canaan was and Noah's cursing of him, as Ham's son. It made me mad at Noah. LOL

Barb

Marsha Lynn
8th June 2008, 08:04 AM (08:04)
My favorite quotes from this morning's exposition:

Too many genuinely good people make life-changing decisions based totally on worldly values. Often the results are spiritually impoverishing, if not outright disastrous to relationships... Lot would have done much better to bring up his family in a community conducive to worship, even if he ended up with less income or prestige.

The "promised land" for Abram was not so much a destination as it was a way of life. Like Abram, our call to follow God is not a call to some static "place."

Faith is dynamic, never static

The direction we are headed and the integrity with which we follow the light are perhaps more important than where we are at the moment, and the circumstances in which we find ourselves.

Barb Bouldrey
8th June 2008, 09:42 AM (09:42)
I highlighted those quotes, too. I love the quote about a way of life.

Barb

Dave McClung
8th June 2008, 05:52 PM (17:52)
Thanks! Makes an old guy happy!
Russ

Russ
I was AWOL when this tread started, but when I saw your name on the lesson this morning, I was thrilled. You did a great job. I am not teaching this series, but will enjoy being a student.

Thanks for all you do.

Dave McClung
8th June 2008, 05:55 PM (17:55)
Two weeks ago when studying Phineas Bresee, I played both Nazbo Rap (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD-puhMT2SI) videos. Last week when talking about Abram moving to a distant land, we started out with the theme song from The Beverly Hillbillies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZp2JcmUU6o).

So this week's lesson includes the scripture where Lot pitched his tents near Sodom. Dare I bring in Blake Bergstrom's unfortunate slip of the tongue (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD-puhMT2SI)* to a Nazarene Sunday School or is it time to be done with taking YouTube to Sunday School? This may call for a NazNet poll.

*Warning: There is good reason why this is not an obvious choice and why the poll will not be posted on the "Good Clean Fun" forum.

I had forgotten all about that sermon. Too bad I didn't read this thread before the lesson this morning. That would definitely have fit in.

Marsha Lynn
22nd June 2008, 07:39 AM (07:39)
I am greatly benefiting personally from these lessons. It's such a blessing to have the opportunity to study and present them.

If I quoted all of the good stuff from this morning's lesson, I would run the risk of copyright infringement. Here are a few highlights.

Abram’s story has a way of getting close and personal. No question, this man was a giant of epic proportions. But somehow, as I read Abram’s story, Abram’s challenges challenge me! I hear a loving God asking me to dare to follow Him. We read this ancient saga and discover that God calls each one of us as certainly as He called Abram. “Trust Me! Move up higher!”

There is a vast difference between the words “blameless” and “faultless.” The “perfection” demanded in Matthew 5:48 is not absolute, angelic, nor Adamic sinless perfection. For example, there is a difference between being a perfectly faithful spouse and being a perfect spouse. I lay claim to the first; Helen would testify against me in the second.

In this sense, “perfect” or “blameless” is not so much being constantly concerned with not doing wrong as it is constantly seeking to walk with God—where He leads, with joy. Abram and Sarai were not now being challenged to do great things for God. Rather, they were being invited to get in step with God himself, and let God do whatever God wanted to do with them.

Circumcision of the flesh in obedience to God was exactly like our definition of the sacraments: an outward and visible sign of an inward and spiritual grace!

...in the mystery of God’s dealings with us, baptism and the Lord’s Supper use things we can touch and see and taste and feel to bring us assurance of the Presence that is always with us, the One in whom we live and move and have our being.

We must fill our minds with that affirmation! Give God access. Find the means of grace. Spend time with Scripture. Spend less time with empty calories, spiritually speaking. Our souls will be transformed.

Wherever you may be on your spiritual journey, God has good things for you at the point of your loving response to His mercies. There is no satisfaction that approaches the assurance that you are exactly where God wants you to be right now!

Susan Unger
22nd June 2008, 06:41 PM (18:41)
I am greatly benefiting personally from these lessons. It's such a blessing to have the opportunity to study and present them.

[/I]

I meant to say this for last week's lesson - What I appreciated was "We are led, one by one, through very individual journeys" [p17 of the student's book]. In other words, we don't have cookie cutter experiences of salvation, sanctification, baptism, etc. The way sanctification was preached/taught as I grew up led me to believe that there was only one way to be sanctified. I am sure that others could say the same about salvation. It is nice to hear in a publication that this isn't so at all.

Marsha Lynn
23rd June 2008, 09:45 AM (09:45)
I meant to say this for last week's lesson - What I appreciated was "We are led, one by one, through very individual journeys" [p17 of the student's book]. In other words, we don't have cookie cutter experiences of salvation, sanctification, baptism, etc. The way sanctification was preached/taught as I grew up led me to believe that there was only one way to be sanctified. I am sure that others could say the same about salvation. It is nice to hear in a publication that this isn't so at all.

Thanks, Susan. I highlighted that paragraph also.

Another quote I included in my presentation is from Walter Brueggemann's comments on Genesis: ... those who believe the promise and hope against barrenness nevertheless must live with the barrenness.

Barb Bouldrey
24th June 2008, 02:03 PM (14:03)
I appreciated the illustration of Hernados Cortez who, after landing in Mexico, burned all 11 ships as a sign that he was there to stay, and no turning back.

Barb

Marsha Lynn
29th June 2008, 07:35 AM (07:35)
"Quick, get three seahs of fine flour and knead it and bake some bread" (Genesis 18:6).

Just how quickly can three seahs of fine flour be turned into bread and served with a freshly slaughtered and prepared calf to unexpected guests? How early would the guests have to arrive to still have time to "go on [their] way" after that "quick" meal? I think I might not have a good grasp of the pace of life represented in Genesis.

Another good lesson this week. (Thanks, Russ.) Here's a quote I like: "That same welcoming love that is hospitality among humans, when it is given to God as we sense His nearness, becomes worship." And from Walter Brueggemann, "The promise of the gospel is not a conventional piece of wisdom that is easily accommodated to everything else. Embrace of this radical gospel requires shattering and discontinuity."

Already enjoying the presence of God and looking forward to being with His people.

Marsha

Jon Twitchell
29th June 2008, 07:49 AM (07:49)
"Quick, get three seahs of fine flour and knead it and bake some bread" (Genesis 18:6).

Just how quickly can three seahs of fine flour be turned into bread and served with a freshly slaughtered and prepared calf to unexpected guests? How early would the guests have to arrive to still have time to "go on [their] way" after that "quick" meal? I think I might not have a good grasp of the pace of life represented in Genesis.

Another good lesson this week. (Thanks, Russ.) Here's a quote I like: "That same welcoming love that is hospitality among humans, when it is given to God as we sense His nearness, becomes worship." And from Walter Brueggemann, "The promise of the gospel is not a conventional piece of wisdom that is easily accommodated to everything else. Embrace of this radical gospel requires shattering and discontinuity."

Already enjoying the presence of God and looking forward to being with His people.

Marsha

I think that the bread would not take so long... anytime I see bedouins making bread, it's more of a pita-style unleavened bread, baked on top of a curved metal screen/grid/bowl, placed over a fire.

The calf, however... now that's another matter! :)

Typical bedouin hospitality, (as I understand it) involved up to three nights of lodging and food. Is it possible that this was really a three-day visit, but that the writer assumes his audience would know that, so he leaves out the details that would tell us that? In addition, 18:1 says that they arrive in "the heat of the day," indicating that it was already noon-ish.

Barb Bouldrey
29th June 2008, 09:32 AM (09:32)
I cannot believe so many lessons come from Abraham, even when each lesson has some of the same thoughts in the scripture...like the promise of the baby boy that has not yet arrived.

I am looking forward to discusssing the things that have happened in our lives that seemed "too hard" but only God could have done it.

Do you notice how easy it is for Abraham and Sarah to lie? Abraham was considered righteous, but lied about Sarah being his wife...twice...and got into trouble because of it. Then Sarah lies to God about laughing.

We are going to discuss the dangers of lies.

Barb

Jon Twitchell
29th June 2008, 04:59 PM (16:59)
Let me come back to the bread for a moment...

3 seahs is 20 quarts? That's 5 gallons of flour?

That (for me) increases the likelihood that this visit was longer than just an afternoon... perhaps they had bread and milk for supper on the first night, and the calf was prepared for a meal later during their stay.

Obviously, we don't know for sure... but that's an awful lot of flour for 3 people! :)

Barb Bouldrey
29th June 2008, 05:40 PM (17:40)
Thanks for noticing the bread. We talked about that in class this morning. It gave me something new and different to bring out for discussion.

We also talked about how long it took to kill, clean and roast the meat.

And Abraham says, "Quickly." LOL That was fun to discuss.

Barb

Edith K. Thurmond
29th June 2008, 06:17 PM (18:17)
So this week's lesson includes the scripture where Lot pitched his tents near Sodom. Dare I bring in Blake Bergstrom's unfortunate slip of the tongue (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD-puhMT2SI)* to a Nazarene Sunday School or is it time to be done with taking YouTube to Sunday School? This may call for a NazNet poll.

*Warning: There is good reason why this is not an obvious choice and why the poll will not be posted on the "Good Clean Fun" forum.

Couldn't resist this....:)

Did you know that the now "famous" Blake Bergstrom was reared in a local university CotN? Wonderful if he will ever live down that slip of the tongue?!!! His mother has posted previously about it on Naznet.

Blessings and smiles,

Susan Unger
30th June 2008, 10:52 AM (10:52)
I think that the bread would not take so long... anytime I see bedouins making bread, it's more of a pita-style unleavened bread, baked on top of a curved metal screen/grid/bowl, placed over a fire.

The calf, however... now that's another matter! :)

Typical bedouin hospitality, (as I understand it) involved up to three nights of lodging and food. Is it possible that this was really a three-day visit, but that the writer assumes his audience would know that, so he leaves out the details that would tell us that? In addition, 18:1 says that they arrive in "the heat of the day," indicating that it was already noon-ish.

That's what I was thinking. My class got a little sidetracked trying to figure out how long it would take to prepare the calf. :q)

Susan Unger
6th July 2008, 01:00 PM (13:00)
I didn't want to get the lesson sidetracked today in my class, but as we discussed Abraham's near sacrifice of his son and how it was important that he obey God, it got me thinking about the Todd Bentley thing. In the thread http://www.naznet.com/community/showthread.php?t=20998 people have brought up how abusive Todd Bentley is to people. We've wondered why people buy into this abuse, thinking that it is from God. The idea is that since God doesn't abuse, then Todd Bentley's actions are not sanctioned by God.

Then, I read this passage from the sunday school lesson today and I can start to see why some folks could start to buy into an abusive spiritual leader is ok. Common sense says that that can't be it...but I need more than just common sense and a gut reaction. I need proper words and theology to know what I would say in a hypothetical converstation with someone who buys into the abuse is ok from spiritual leaders. Any takers?

Marsha Lynn
7th August 2008, 11:26 AM (11:26)
I think I have read all of the material put out by WordAction in connection with this lesson -- lesson exposition and methodology, Illustrated Bible Life commentary and article. In multiple places, the question comes up as to whether Paul is describing the struggle of the unregenerate or regenerate life in the "do what I don't want to do" passage. The consistent question: Is this the struggle we have before we come to Christ or is it a normal part of the Christian life?

Did I miss the part where the "correct" Nazarene answer was given? What I have heard over and over, including a couple of weeks ago from a General Superintendent, is that Romans 7 describes the life of both the unregenerate and the saved-but-not-sanctified believer, but that the experience of sanctification moves us from Romans 7 to Romans 8 where we have victory over sin and no longer find ourselves doing what we don't want to do.

Now, I wouldn't necessarily teach this lesson using those terms simply because I try not to teach what 1) is not clearly stated in Scripture and which 2) I have neither experienced nor clearly observed. I find myself far too frequently living in chapter 7 and surrounded by people who seem to have the same problem to teach that there is a state where we are forever cured of "doing what we don't want to do and not doing what we want to do." I see no limitation to how many battles we can put behind us as we travel on with God, but I'm not sure we reach a point where there are no battles left to fight. But that's another discussion.

I'm not complaining about the lesson so much as expressing surprise. At one point the "methodology" writer sends us to a "WordSearch" box to find Dr. Greathouse's conclusion on the regenerate/unregenerate matter. Here's the referenced quote from the Beacon Bible Commentary, 1968:

Paul's intent throughout [Romans] 7 has been clear: the law cannot sanctify. From this perspective, the question as to whether vv. 14-25 apply to unregenerate or the regenerate man is not really Paul's concern. As 3:19-20 shows, the powerlessness of the law to justify ('by the law is the knowledge of sin'), vs. 14-25 reveal the impotence of the law to sanctify ('by the commandment' sin becomes 'exceeding sinful,' v. 13)

Huh? I think there's some context missing here. The scissors seem to have cut short of getting what's needed to understand the quote. I do see the word "sanctify" twice, but in both cases the statement is simply that the law cannot sanctify. It says nothing about whether it's possible to get out of chapter 7 and live in chapter 8, just that Paul wasn't really concerned about the spiritual state of the chapter 7 soul.

I realize that I could easily locate the quote in its context. Or I could look in other 'holiness' resources and quickly run into the message of moving from the frustration of Romans 7 to the victory of Romans 8 via the experience of sanctification. (In fact, it wouldn't be difficult at all to locate hours of 'further reading' on the matter.) Or I could rely on what I was told in clear words two weeks ago at district ass'y for that message. I'm just surprised that it isn't presented in this week's lesson more clearly.

Did I miss something?

Susan Unger
7th August 2008, 11:54 AM (11:54)
Here's what I found ~
Yet, others protested that this could not possibly define the Christian life. Erasmus (d. a.d. 1536) took the position that this language could only describe the spiritual experience of the unregenerate. He believed that life in Christ is characterized by victory over sin, not a disheartening struggle against it. After all, he argued, had not Christ conquered death and sin? He was later joined in this interpretation by Arminian theologians and many of the later pietists. John Wesley, too, was persuaded that practical holiness was possible.

I took this paragraph to mean that this was the official Nazarene position.

For the 'forever cured' part of your post, I say that the "I have help" section was useful for me to show that God will help us with the sin problem. I was glad that it wasn't presented as a one time forever cured like what I grew up with.
A 10-year-old boy was selling pencils in his neighborhood. A woman opened her door and asked, “Why are you selling pencils?”
The little boy answered, “I am going to raise $6 million to build a new hospital for the city.”
The woman, taken back by such an ambitious project, replied, “Isn’t that an awfully big job for one boy?”
The boy answered, “No. You see, I have someone who’s helping me.”
The Point: God will work in you to conquer the sin problem.


The transition from chap 7 to chap 8 wasn't much, this is true. This was the transition -
The Rest of the Story
The rest of the story must be told! All that Paul has said in chapter 7 is in preparation for the message of chapter 8. When Paul wrote Romans 7, he did not intend for his readers to stop reading at 7:25. Paul fully intended for his readers to go on and read, “Therefore...”
Have someone read aloud Romans 8:1-4. We will continue the study of chapter 8 next week.

This is my first time teaching SS in about 20 years...What a way to start things off ~ Romans 7!

Barb Bouldrey
7th August 2008, 12:27 PM (12:27)
I am uncomfortable with the idea of "forever cured" since that is NOT what we believe at all. We believe in the possibility of sin and backsliding after sanctification. We just believe that sanctification ends that big struggle between self and the Spirit and helps us live by the Spirit instead of according to the desires of self.

I have always seen chapter 7 as the struggle with sin and chapter 8 as the results of deliverance....sanctification.

Paul also says, "but if we sin we have an advocate....."

I have always seen this section of Romans as Pauls definition of the struggle to surrender SELF and the victory that comes when we finally do surrender.

Barb

Marsha Lynn
7th August 2008, 12:49 PM (12:49)
This is my first time teaching SS in about 20 years...What a way to start things off ~ Romans 7!

Yes, this is quite the jumping-in place. The teacher you're replacing must have looked ahead. :basic03 I'll say a prayer for you.

Marsha

Barb Bouldrey
8th August 2008, 12:44 AM (00:44)
Today I wrote my own "paraphrase" of Sunday's scripture. It is funny, but when I tried to simplify it and make it easier to understand, it was just as long as Paul's original.

I will not post my paraphrase here, on the Theology Forum. I may be dumb but I "aint" stupid. I would only be setting myself up for dissection and criticism from the true theologians on this forum. LOL

If any Sunday School teacher would like to read my paraphrase, use any of it or change it to fit their explanation, I will email it to them.

I am also going to read the Message tomorrow and consider using part of it to help my class clearly understand this passage.

Barb

Gene Tatsch
8th August 2008, 07:47 AM (07:47)
Today I wrote my own "paraphrase" of Sunday's scripture. ...
I am also going to read the Message tomorrow ...
Barb

It won't do for next Sunday (I don't see Romans included), but Clarence Jordan's "Cotton Patch" New Testament translations put the Gospel so I see it from a different perspective. Seriously.
gene --

Susan Unger
8th August 2008, 10:46 AM (10:46)
Today I wrote my own "paraphrase" of Sunday's scripture. It is funny, but when I tried to simplify it and make it easier to understand, it was just as long as Paul's original.

I will not post my paraphrase here, on the Theology Forum. I may be dumb but I "aint" stupid. I would only be setting myself up for dissection and criticism from the true theologians on this forum. LOL

If any Sunday School teacher would like to read my paraphrase, use any of it or change it to fit their explanation, I will email it to them.

I am also going to read the Message tomorrow and consider using part of it to help my class clearly understand this passage.

Barb

I enjoyed reading it in the NLT version. Maybe I'll do what you are doing and have them read it in the message or nlt.

Susan Unger
10th August 2008, 08:32 AM (08:32)
:fun02

This is how I feel this am...needless to say, I am not a morning person!

Marsha Lynn
25th August 2008, 09:23 PM (21:23)
I have a "spiritual adventure" book by David Mains that talks about "God sightings" -- coincidences that seem to obviously reveal God at work in our lives. I don't use that phrase much but it certainly came to mind today.

Yesterday morning in Sunday School, we barely touched Romans 8:28. It was after the final buzzer when I brought it up and briefly mentioned a personal example of how God works for good in all things. My example was of how having an older member of my family go to prison for the last few years of his life was obviously a tragic thing, but how God has used that tragedy for good in multiple ways in my life.

That was Sunday. This morning, I was gathering up house clutter and sat down with a newspaper over a week old that had joined the clutter without being read. The headline announced that a classmate of my older daughter had been sentenced to 10 years in prison. This was a result of an accident over two years ago involving a truck, an Amish buggy, and a .24 blood-alcohol content which resulted in one death and multiple injuries. It's a sad, sad situation within the Mennonite-Amish community that packed out the courtroom for the sentencing hearing. The article indicated that there were few dry eyes in the courtroom. Tears ran down my own face as I read it.

A couple of hours later, I headed to the post office to mail out a textbook my younger daughter sold over the internet. As I chatted with the postal worker, someone came through the door behind me. I turned around to leave and there was the mother of the young man from the article. I live in a small town, but that's pretty coincidental. Our paths have crossed only two or three times since the accident. I know her because we did volunteer work together 18 years ago when our children were in grade school, but we haven't gone beyond exchanging greetings more than a dozen times since then. Yet, here she was in the post office just a couple of hours after I came across the latest news about her son.

Now, you may think me tactless, but there is absolutely no gentle way to bring up something like this and I didn't want to pretend I was unaware of this latest development, so I simply said, "Well, hi! I was just reading about you in the newspaper this morning!" She acknowledged that the family had become local "celebrities" against their druthers. I then asked some questions and mentioned my own family's experience with being on the wrong side of the law. We moved out onto the sidewalk in front of the post office and talked several minutes more. It was good to share someone else's burden. I know one of the things that helped me most during my own experience was finding people who weren't afraid to talk about it with me. There's nothing to kill a conversation like mentioning what happened at last week's prison visit. I hope and pray that offering a listening ear was a blessing to this mother like it was to me.

As we both went on our way, it occurred to me that tomorrow marks nine years since prisoner #963602 moved out of the prison walls and on to sentencing at the hands of a merciful God. I had been totally oblivious to that impending anniversary.

And yet ... "in all things God works for ... good" I can truly say that there was good along that path. How odd that I mentioned that personal history in Sunday School yesterday, that I picked up that particular piece of "old news" this morning, and that my brief visit to the post office placed me square in the path of this grieving mother almost exactly nine years after death brought my own "prison experience" to an end. It seems that I may have had a "God sighting."

Marsha

Barb Bouldrey
26th August 2008, 12:17 AM (00:17)
I have always believed that Romans 8:28 means that God can use everything in our lives for SOMEONE'S good. My pain helps me to understand and minister to someone else's pain even if it gave me no great good. But then holding on to God through the pain is a good thing. Coming out of the pain stronger than I went in is a good thing.

I had a lady once ask, "Why did my son get arrested for drug possession, high on drugs? What does God want to teach me?"

I do not believe God caused that son to take drugs and get arrested to teach his mother something. But I do believe God CAN use that situation for someone's good.

In that situation, God eventually called that boy to preach.

Losing my mother was the deepest hurt I have yet experienced, but it has given me a new understanding of grief, grief-induced depression and dealing with estates so that when others experience those things I empathize with them and know how to answer them.

Barb

Susan Unger
26th August 2008, 01:19 AM (01:19)
These are the best explanations I have heard for this verse. Thanks :)

I never made it to verse 28 either. I wasn't feeling well at all Sunday am and could barely focus on the lesson. I got enough out of it that I could wing some of it but the rest I just told God he'd have to be the teacher cuz I couldn't do it.

I arrived at class and we had a couple who used to attend come back for a visit. The husband is known for his passionate discourses on things. He slept during the part that I could wing...and then just when I ran out of steam he woke up and started talking. Even though he talked the rest of the class time, I decided to view it as God's answering my prayer.

The only thing I really remember me teaching from the lesson is that God came to redeem all his creation, not just our souls.

Susan Unger
6th September 2008, 04:03 PM (16:03)
I played this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KLGVKfiFTQ&feature=related for the class last sunday. I told them that listening to this song is when I finally understood the concept of how big God's love is.