Galatians 4:8-11

[David Pettigrew]

8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to beings that by nature are not gods. 9 Now, however, that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and beggarly elemental spirits? How can you want to be enslaved to them again? 10 You are observing special days, and months, and seasons, and years. 11 I am afraid that my work for you may have been wasted.

How do we interpret this passage in light of renewed emphasis among Nazarenes in the liturgical year?

Just a thought that struck me in my daily readings this morning. Thanks.

[Ryan Scott]

Seems like Paul would not be in favor of a 4th of July service (or at the very least a Halloween party).

Then again, he'd probably be appalled that we turned pagan festivals into Christmas and Easter, so it may be a wash.

[Randy Wise]

I believe the surrounding passage of scriptures gives away that Paul was asking why they wanted to be enslaved by the law after finding freedom in Christ Jesus. Gal 4:21 Their actions appeared to have had a negative effect in that it robbed them of the joy they had in coming to the knowledge of the truth. Gal 4:15 Paul then goes on to make a case that christians are children based on a promise of God not the law. Gal 4:28-31 Then after all that and in what we have as chapter 5 Paul had to clarify that new found freedom wasn't freedom to sin.

Randy

[David Pettigrew]

Let me clarify my question. Is using the seasons of the church year to guide our personal prayer life and corporate worship "wrong" in light of v10?

[Randy Wise]

Let me clarify my question. Is using the seasons of the church year to guide our personal prayer life and corporate worship "wrong" in light of v10?

No - that is not something you are stating must be followed in order to remain in Gods Love.

Randy

[Ryan Scott]

Let me clarify my question. Is using the seasons of the church year to guide our personal prayer life and corporate worship "wrong" in light of v10?


No, it seems like Paul is rebuking them for returning to the festivals and seasons which had previously marked the passing of time before they became Christians and this return was hindering their faith.

[Randy Wise]

No, it seems like Paul is rebuking them for returning to the festivals and seasons which had previously marked the passing of time before they became Christians and this return was hindering their faith.

I see Paul using their former life as a metaphor towards their present christian circumstances in that some, (I assume the circumcision group), wanted them to adhere to the law. (religious festivals of the jews not pagans) Example Col 2:16 Also Paul jumps into circumcision in chapter 5.

Randy

[Charles W Christian]

8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to beings that by nature are not gods. 9 Now, however, that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and beggarly elemental spirits? How can you want to be enslaved to them again? 10 You are observing special days, and months, and seasons, and years. 11 I am afraid that my work for you may have been wasted.
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How do we interpret this passage in light of renewed emphasis among Nazarenes in the liturgical year?

Just a thought that struck me in my daily readings this morning. Thanks.

No. As Randy W. implies, it is not addressing our keeping of the liturgical calendar. It's speaking about something else entirely. It can't say what it didn't mean then, it seems....

CWC

[Dale Cozby]

Let me clarify my question. Is using the seasons of the church year to guide our personal prayer life and corporate worship "wrong" in light of v10?

If you feel compelled to do it....Yes, its wrong.
If you are bored doing it but do it anyway....yes, its wrong
If you think by doing it you are a better christian....than someone else who doesn't....yes, its wrong.

If you have gotten so deep into doing it that you think you aren't saved by doing so...by all means stop. Its wrong.

But if it seems to help you understand your relationships with God and man, then go ahead. Just don't tell others they have to as well. Maybe explain how it benefits you....but also what the dangers of it can be too.

[Crystal Lutton]

He specifically says in this passage, however, that the days, weeks and months they are turning to are celebrations of their non-gods--not the celebrations of the real God. Since this is the same person who told believers in Colossians 2 to not allow anyone to judge them for celebrating the Biblical Feasts and Festivals commanded by God in Scripture I cannot read this as suggesting they shouldn't celebrate them. What he says is that those things that point to the real God are wonderful to add to our life--what points away from God is not.

To me that is the answer to the question intended by the OP. Does the use of the church season in a more liturgical manner point to God--or away from Him? If to Him then it's fine :)

[Randy Wise]

Since this is the same person who told believers in Colossians 2 to not allow anyone to judge them for celebrating the Biblical Feasts and Festivals commanded by God in Scripture

:)

I think you missed Pauls point in col 2 - Why would they fear keeping the written law? It was fear or pressure to keep that law from what I see in Pauls letter. Those regulations were cancelled. I can eat pork. I can work on a sabbeth day. Etc..

Randy

3When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature,[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians%202&version=31;#fen-NIV-29492b)] God made you[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians%202&version=31;#fen-NIV-29492c)] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians%202&version=31;#fen-NIV-29494d)] 16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.7These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

[Crystal Lutton]

I *completely* disagree with your understanding of that passage. God's standard is unchanged--Paul spoke passionately about it's value in the life of believers; the letter in Acts to new Gentile believers was commented upon by James after reading it that "the rest has been taught in Synagogues since the time of Moses" and since new believers were part of a sect of Judaism and continued to attend Synagogue I believe he meant they'd get the rest as they go--let's just have them give up these things (the elements of pagan communion) to begin.

The "penalty" of the law was no more after the Cross--Jesus paid the price; all was atoned for. The standard remains. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. HE said that pork is an abomination and not food--that's enough for me. What we eat, when we have him in us, cannot make us ritually unclean, but ritually unclean is not my only desire in life. We cannot both proclaim Scripture as the owner's manual and throw out the instructions within it.

[Randy Wise]

I *completely* disagree with your understanding of that passage. God's standard is unchanged--Paul spoke passionately about it's value in the life of believers; the letter in Acts to new Gentile believers was commented upon by James after reading it that "the rest has been taught in Synagogues since the time of Moses" and since new believers were part of a sect of Judaism and continued to attend Synagogue I believe he meant they'd get the rest as they go--let's just have them give up these things (the elements of pagan communion) to begin.

The "penalty" of the law was no more after the Cross--Jesus paid the price; all was atoned for. The standard remains. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. HE said that pork is an abomination and not food--that's enough for me. What we eat, when we have him in us, cannot make us ritually unclean, but ritually unclean is not my only desire in life. We cannot both proclaim Scripture as the owner's manual and throw out the instructions within it.

Its ok with me Crystal if you don't want to eat pork. I only gave that as a example. What wouldn't be ok with me is if you told me I can't eat pork. I think thats what Pauls addressing, that is the reality is found in Christ Jesus and not the written code. We don't offer sacrifices on a alter, which was also part of that original owners manual. So that owners manual changed. Peter had lessons to learn as well in regard to the owners manual. Acts 10:14

Randy

[Hans Deventer]

I *completely* disagree with your understanding of that passage. God's standard is unchanged--Paul spoke passionately about it's value in the life of believers; the letter in Acts to new Gentile believers was commented upon by James after reading it that "the rest has been taught in Synagogues since the time of Moses" and since new believers were part of a sect of Judaism and continued to attend Synagogue I believe he meant they'd get the rest as they go--let's just have them give up these things (the elements of pagan communion) to begin.


Crystal, THE question in the early church was if gentile believers needed to become Jews in order to be saved. And the answer was a resounding "NO". It took quite a struggle but it became clear. Peter's argument convinced the council: "10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are. (Acts 15)"

Apparently, the disciples were able to distinguish between the parts of the owner's manual that were applicable to Jews and to Gentiles. Which makes sense, because in the Torah there laws for gentiles, men, women, soldiers etc that do not apply to others either.

Personally, I think that even Messianic Jews are still bound to the Torah. But as a "goy", I haven't been brought out of Egypt, nor is there a promise regarding the land that applies to me. I can't go to Israel and say that since I've come to believe in the Jewish Messiah, God's promises regarding the Land now apply to me as well so give me a piece of it! I'm not a Jew. The rules that are part of the covenant between God and Israël, don't automaticly all apply to me.

[Crystal Lutton]

THE question in the early church was if gentile believers needed to become Jews in order to be saved. And the answer was a resounding "NO".I agree that was the answer to that question, though that wasn't the only issue that had to be sorted out. I think it is stretching Scripture to suggest that meant the Torah (which didn't make you Jewish) was rendered irrelevant. Torah is presented in Scripture as God's standard--how man will live when God is in his life. Most believers who truly love the Lord are living most of Torah--it doesn't "look" Jewish because they aren't Jewish but it looks different in every culture. If you study out Torah it's the unsummarized version of love God and love your neighbor as yourself--at least according to Jesus who said that those two commands sum it up. Wanna know what Torah teaches? Look to the Greatest Command. What to understand what the Greatest Command looks like? Look to Torah. Paul told all believers that Torah was now written on their hearts (which is what God promised for his New Covenant when he first rolled it out in Jeremiah). It's not a new or different Torah.

The sacrifices were all that was done away with--they always pointed to Jesus and he fulfilled them. They never did what he did anyway, they only gave a foreshadow.

And no one has a problem with loving God or loving their neighbor.

It always comes down to the dietary laws for the sticking point. And Jesus did say that what you put into you does not defile you--it's what comes out of you. But that doesn't mean that what was unclean before the flood and was never given to mankind (either to Noah or through Moses) as food is suddenly okay for food. I mean, what everyone eats is between them and God, it's none of my business. I'm just suggesting that the text doesn't give permission to do anything that violates the original instructions.

What were the early believers reading and being admonished to study? The Hebrew Scriptures. What was Paul praising for expressing holiness? The Torah and the Prophets. Not requiring someone to be converted to Judaism doesn't have anything to do with whether Torah is still God's standard for living or not. They are two completely different issues. Torah isn't even understood by Orthodox Jews to be "God's rules for Jews". Rather, it's what the expression of sincere faith is supposed to look like. We get this "Thou shalt" and "Thou shalt not" idea but it's better expressed, "Because of me you will/won't . . . " If it's about God and not us it is unchanging.