Bible reading: F, Prayer: F, Attendance: F, Giving: F

[Billy Cox]

We had our annual church meeting last night. The pastor's annual report used to be the highpoint of the church year; uplifting, identifying opportunities and obstacles.

Last year was the first time that the congregation did not greet the report with applause. This year was more of the same.

Here is a simple outline:

1. You are obviously not spending time in the Word and praying

2. You're missing too many church activities to go to the lake, or to play sports, or to just relax and watch TV.

3. There are 120 families in the church directory, of which only 20 are giving what could be reasonably considered a tithe on their income.

4. You are content with your social circles and are not welcoming outsiders.

5. You are lacking in spiritual passion as reflected by your sporadic attendance of services, programs and activities.


I was baffled...not so much by the accusations, but by the apparent belief that a butt-whipping will change the behavior of mature adults.

I'm not sure what (if anything) to do about it, but I now realize that the spiritual malaise from which I am now recovered is something I caught at church.

[Susan Unger]

We had our annual church meeting last night. The pastor's annual report used to be the highpoint of the church year; uplifting, identifying opportunities and obstacles.

Last year was the first time that the congregation did not greet the report with applause. This year was more of the same.

Here is a simple outline:

1. You are obviously not spending time in the Word and praying

2. You're missing too many church activities to go to the lake, or to play sports, or to just relax and watch TV.

3. There are 120 families in the church directory, of which only 20 are giving what could be reasonably considered a tithe on their income.

4. You are content with your social circles and are not welcoming outsiders.

5. You are lacking in spiritual passion as reflected by your sporadic attendance of services, programs and activities.


I was baffled...not so much by the accusations, but by the apparent belief that a butt-whipping will change the behavior of mature adults.

I think some people/cultures like the in your face approach but I am not one of them. Neither was the church I grew up in. Pastors that confronted people with issues failed, those that introduced issues succeded.

I'm not sure what (if anything) to do about it, but I now realize that the spiritual malaise from which I am now recovered is something I caught at church.

I hear you. I struggle with how to be a part of community but not be so much a part of it that I let it determine my spiritual walk and growth. Ever since I had a spiritual renewal about 17 years ago, I have felt like a spiritual freak. A typical church existence just doesn't satisfy me anymore because it is so...surface level. I am not picking on a particular church, as I have found this in many churches I have experienced. Often after a frustrating conversation with someone on a spiritual issue, I will think "I could make this so much easier on myself if I would just stop caring spiritually, if I would just stop reading my bible and praying." As tempting as this sounds, I also believe that that would be no defense before God on Judgement Day.

What is strange to me lately, is that I am actually starting to have fond memories of my fomer church. That place was so messed up that it gave me anxiety attacks. And it has taken me over 2 years of praying for emotional healing and I am still not done. But, one thing I am appreciating now is that the people in my church and area had so little in life that it made them so very desperate for God. A service filled with people desperate for God is special. Desperate people don't settle for surface stuff. So, I have been praying that the people of my district become a people desperate for God and no longer satisfied with a surface relationship.

[Marsha Lynn]

Ah ... the never-dying "you're not measuring up" message from the church. It leaves no room to rejoice in any progress made. It's the sort of thing to which I was referring when I wrote this here (http://www.naznet.com/community/showthread.php?p=201625#poststop):

I really do believe that love is the most powerful force in the world. I have observed with interest as one of my own mentors has decided that we need tough love that disciplines those who don't measure up to our standards. As she effects social correction by lowering the level of friendship and acceptance offered to an offending party, I see her influence drop. What she tells me is that she tried love and it wasn't effective so now she needs to exercise discipline. And it all sounds very correct and biblical.

Among other damaging results, this 'discipline' leaves church people extremely vulnerable to those who will truly love and accept them as they are while modeling a higher path for them. There is great potential for influence for anyone who is willing to live out a radical stance of love. Those in the "not good enough" camp will call it being "soft on sin." I prefer to think of it as being "soft toward sinners." You have a lot of opportunity to make a difference, Billy, as you lift up the downtrodden and convey the message that God isn't carrying around a paddle looking for deficiencies.

I love George MacDonald's message that God is never satisfied with where we are, but He's easily pleased by our efforts.

Marsha

We had our annual church meeting last night. The pastor's annual report used to be the highpoint of the church year; uplifting, identifying opportunities and obstacles.

Last year was the first time that the congregation did not greet the report with applause. This year was more of the same.

Here is a simple outline:

1. You are obviously not spending time in the Word and praying

2. You're missing too many church activities to go to the lake, or to play sports, or to just relax and watch TV.

3. There are 120 families in the church directory, of which only 20 are giving what could be reasonably considered a tithe on their income.

4. You are content with your social circles and are not welcoming outsiders.

5. You are lacking in spiritual passion as reflected by your sporadic attendance of services, programs and activities.


I was baffled...not so much by the accusations, but by the apparent belief that a butt-whipping will change the behavior of mature adults.

I'm not sure what (if anything) to do about it, but I now realize that the spiritual malaise from which I am now recovered is something I caught at church.

[David Showalter]

Billy shared,

I was baffled...not so much by the accusations, but by the apparent belief that a butt-whipping will change the behavior of mature adults.

David replies,

Billy, I sense the Pastor is venting his frustrations rather than finding cause to highlight some of the Body's desire and hunger to experience more of Christ. As a fellow Pastor, I often find myself in a place where I want to blame or hold my people responsible for where I sense the church is at, when in reality much of what is going on is probably a direct reflection of my leadership and attitude. I realize part of our responsibility as shepherds is to speak the truth in love, but when the chips are down a bit of honey will draw far more flies than a cup of vinegar. Our church has not had a very, outwardly successful year, I pray my report will focus more on the potential, and Christ's desire to see us become passionate and alive in His Spirit, than on the fact that our numbers and participation is way down. The reality is most of the folks that will be there to hear my report are the very ones that are also concerned and a bit discouraged about the seeming decline, so I pray I won't be the one to throw salt on their open wounds and disappointments. Thanks for reminding we Pastors to be careful as we stand before our folks. I appreciated your post.

[Billy Cox]

Billy shared,

I was baffled...not so much by the accusations, but by the apparent belief that a butt-whipping will change the behavior of mature adults.

David replies,

Billy, I sense the Pastor is venting his frustrations rather than finding cause to highlight some of the Body's desire and hunger to experience more of Christ. As a fellow Pastor, I often find myself in a place where I want to blame or hold my people responsible for where I sense the church is at, when in reality much of what is going on is probably a direct reflection of my leadership and attitude. I realize part of our responsibility as shepherds is to speak the truth in love, but when the chips are down a bit of honey will draw far more flies than a cup of vinegar. Our church has not had a very, outwardly successful year, I pray my report will focus more on the potential, and Christ's desire to see us become passionate and alive in His Spirit, than on the fact that our numbers and participation is way down. The reality is most of the folks that will be there to hear my report are the very ones that are also concerned and a bit discouraged about the seeming decline, so I pray I won't be the one to throw salt on their open wounds and disappointments. Thanks for reminding we Pastors to be careful as we stand before our folks. I appreciated your post.

I have recently read Jake Colsen's book, 'So You Don't Want to go to Church Anymore'. I would term it a post-congregational ecclesiology.

During my pastor's diatribe I had a peace that would only be possible if I had been inoculated against this kind of stuff. I owned the aspects that were applicable to me and then thanked God that I was not bound by employment to my local church - in which case I would have to quietly go along as though I agreed with everything being said.

[David Showalter]

Billy, just recently read the book. Must admit that my own kids are basically represented in the book. Am thankful that they still have a healthy belief, trust, and love for Christ, just wish they saw the potential and benefit of the organized BODY. Thanks for your faithfulness.

[Judy McDonald]

"Ever since I had a spiritual renewal about 17 years ago, I have felt like a spiritual freak. A typical church existence just doesn't satisfy me anymore because it is so...surface level."
"A service filled with people desperate for God is special. Desperate people don't settle for surface stuff. So, I have been praying that the people of my district become a people desperate for God and no longer satisfied with a surface relationship."

After growing up in a rather rigid atmosphere (church and school) where leaders confronted issues on a regular basis (too bad they were so legalistic)I was surprised to learn that only preachers, not teachers, were "allowed" to confront issues. Later on, I realized that even preachers are open to criticism and it's awfully hard to "confront" sin unless your own life appears flawless...and there are very few of those walking around.
I would love to spend time with a few people who are truly "desperate for God." Do you have to be a missionary or live in a third world country to find people like that?

"Those in the "not good enough" camp will call it being "soft on sin." I prefer to think of it as being "soft toward sinners." You have a lot of opportunity to make a difference, Billy, as you lift up the downtrodden and convey the message that God isn't carrying around a paddle looking for deficiencies."

I love that thought. Jesus was "soft on the sinners" who recognized and repented of their sin. The Pharisees were hard on sinners, followed all the rules, but were really soft on themselves. At a training session for work in a crisis pregnancy center a leader explained it like this. "We do not condone the sin of premarital sex or wish to encourage that behavior in the future. We realize that bad choices, unhealthy relationships and entanglements bring their own heartache and sorrow, and as godly counselors we come alongside that suffering one...." That's the part we're losing in our churches. No one is ashamed anymore. No one sorrows over sin. Instead, we point fingers, make excuses.

[Mike Schutz]

Sometimes, when a pastor yields to this temptation it is related to burnout. Whe I see this kind of behavior, I wonder if the pastor participates in a strong, confidential support group of other pastors for encouragement and accountability. Usually not.

If he or she is involved in such a group, they can voice this frustration, get it off their chest, and then hear from their peers how to effectively put these frustrations in their proper context.

[Chuck Wilkes]

Are the grades given to the congregational members by the pastor accurate?

Chuck

[Scott Sherwood]

I hope your pastor has a chance to hear this from you in person before he reads it on the internet.

[Jon Twitchell]

I'm always afraid that someone will think that I'm looking at the church through rose-colored glasses when I give my annual report. I've heard it suggested by one person that pastors can be so positive and optimistic that we forget the real challenges and shortcomings that we have.

I think there can be a real challenge in speaking optimistically and realistically at the same time.

[Susan Unger]

I would love to spend time with a few people who are truly "desperate for God." Do you have to be a missionary or live in a third world country to find people like that?[/I]

It seems like it many times. But, in the usa you can find this in a group of people who don't have much at all, know that they don't have much and know that it is only through God that they will have anything at all. This can occur in people who live in poverty, have lots of health problems, problems at home or at work...basically people whose lives spin out of their control. Carsten on an other thread mentioned that his rotten homelife as a child made him into a person who was very willing to give all to God. Where I used to live, the whole population could identify with his childhood. This caused them to be so open to things of God [other than my home church which had been taught in their desperation not to lean on God too much by a legalistic pastor].

[Barb Bouldrey]

It would have gone better if the pastor has approached the changes he wants to see with a positive slant,
"I would like to see us.............."
"WE need to do more to.........."

When a pastor casts of vision of what he would like to see done, including himself in the improvements, it is better accepted.

There is nothing wrong in offering tither statistics, but to say, "We need to pray more and ask God to speak to more about sharing the financial responsibilities of the church."

We all make mistakes. Some mistakes cause more harm than others. I doubt that the way your pastor presented his report will have positive results in the new year.

Of course, a lot of people tune out anyone giving a report and just endure it, so they do not really hear it.

Barb

[Billy Cox]

I hope your pastor has a chance to hear this from you in person before he reads it on the internet.

Why is that?

[Scott Sherwood]

I think approaching someone in person with my perception of their fault gives the two of us the best chance of coming out on the other side closer to each other and to God. Matthew 18:15-17 give Jesus teaching on how to handle a brother who has sinned against me. In your case, you may not consider him to have sinned or to have acted against you, both of which would make this an issue that calls for a response gentler than what Jesus describes in his teaching. Posting a critique such as yours on the internet, in my opinion, is harsher than a personal conversation.

I do understand that he made these statements publicly, so its understandable that they could appropriately be discussed in a public manner. I would not say it was morally wrong for you to make your comments public. In a community as intimate as most Churches of the Nazarene, though, I think you would have a lot better chance of helping your pastor, your church, and your relationship with both by addressing it through personal conversation with your pastor first.

[Billy Cox]

In a community as intimate as most Churches of the Nazarene, though, I think you would have a lot better chance of helping your pastor, your church, and your relationship with both by addressing it through personal conversation with your pastor first.

Here is the email I sent... (it's really not a church foyer conversation, and I don't think it rises to the level of a one-on-one in person meeting)

<name>,

I was very dismayed by the annual report delivered on Wednesday night, and as I understand it, repeated at the services yesterday (Sunday). In past years I have been inspired and challenged by your annual report, but this year I came away discouraged and disheartened. I have known you for a long time and I am not accustomed to you confronting obstacles without suggesting a strategy for moving forward.

Please understand that I own the areas in which I fall short, while being confident and unashamed in the areas in which I am growing.

I know that you are a fan of Stephen Covey, so I wonder if you have read his book about the Eighth Habit - "Find your voice and inspire others to find theirs". I ask because at least in my own experience I have found my voice in a number of places, but my local church still seems like a closed place.

So, I am consciously practicing effective habit #1, 'Be Proactive'. Doing so bypasses the human tendency to assign blame, and instead to ask actionable questions. Therefore I ask the question 'How can I pray for you?'


Sincerely,
Billy

[Karl Tabor]

Any update on how this one turned out?

[Billy Cox]

Any update on how this one turned out?

I had a productive email exchange with my pastor. Our relationship is better as a result.