Tell it to the Church....

[Charles W Christian]

How have you seen the principles of Matt. 18 applied (or misapplied, I guess at times) in Church life?

I realize that often when people do something that would bring about this kind of corrective voice from individuals and then the Church, the easy thing for them to do is to just go to another local church up the street! That wasn't always the case in church history, of course.

How do you feel about the concept of "church discipline," and do you have any success stories (DO NOT MENTION NAMES, please!).

If you don't, then feel free to discussion what role the church plays in our discipline/correction today.

Let's get the theology board rolling again! :-)

Blessings,
Charles

[Barb Bouldrey]

In our last pastorate we had the son of one of our older ladies retire and move back to our community. He and his wife had become a part of a fellowship that taught doctrines that we do not teach.

At that time we had 4 adult classes and this couple moved from one class to another attempting to take over the Sunday School class promoting their doctrinal views. The man would often stand to "testify" on Wednesday nights and preach his doctrine.

After a Sunday when this man kept the teacher way into the worship service arguing, John took two witnesses with him to this man's home to discuss the situation. He told this couple that he knew where their teachings were coming from and they were not compatible with our church. John told him that if there would be any new doctrine taught or preached in our church it would come from the pulpit, not the pew.

John expressed love for them and told them they were welcomed to continue worshiping with us, but they could no longer teach their new doctrine, even in private conversations within the walls of the church.

Needless to say, they left.

Barb

[Chris Patton]

We had a teen in one of the churches we attended who came to church high. We sent him home and informed him a few days later that we needed to tell his mother what happened b/c he was a minor. With much prayer and guidance, including talking with his friends who knew about the incident from him, we gave him 3 days (this was 3 weeks in) to tell his mom. The next Monday I called the mom and her son had gotten there first informing her that we were lying and seeking to destroy him (she was already suspicious that her son, a Catholic like her, was attending a Nazarene youth group on Wednesday). Needless to say, the church and I were threatened with police and legal ramifications for "lying" about her son. I told her what had happened and left the believing or not up to her. I then had to inform her son that with the threats that were made and his lying to cover up his situation that he was not welcome at our church for the forseeable future. As you may imagine I had to deal with lots of questions from friends. But 6 months later, this young man called and begged to come back. He made things right with his mother, and I received her personal assurance that she would no longer seek legal ramifications if we would allow her son to return. He did, and we are good friends to this day. As an aside, he is now in school working to enter the Catholic priesthood.

I would hope that all church disciplinary situations would work out this well, sadly I know firsthand they do not, but I thought I would share one that did, Thanks be to God

[Gina Stevenson]

Well, tho' I've heard of people going, as John B did, privately, I won't mention any of that & its outcome, as it's been decades since I knew about that story. However, a long, long time ago I visited my sister's church she'd found [ended up not there ... phew!]. Not sure if they'd already done the private thing, & these two kids had been belligerent, suggesting a pregnancy outside of marriage was OK, or not, but they made [& the kids complied] them come up before the church during this service I happened to attend.

Seemed to me, tho', as if they were just insistent upon its being publicly confessed, whether they'd been "sorry" (seemed so) privately, or not ... as if what would soon be visible, anyway, had to always be told to the entire church from up front. But then that pastor(?) did end up being a complete control freak, once we/my sister was there long enough to know what was what.

That was bizarre, actually, the way it was done.

[Charles W Christian]

This is from a speech a Baptist theologian gave recently regarding church discipline:

Whitney said a local church should begin to discipline a member when:

-- Christian love is violated by serious personal offenses.

-- Christian unity is violated by those who form factions and destroy the peace of the church.

-- Christian law is violated by those living scandalous lives.

-- Christian truth is violated by those who reject essential doctrines of the faith.

There are at least three errors to avoid when practicing church discipline, Whitney said: inconsistency, severity and leniency. Whitney pointed out that Southern Baptist churches in the 19th century regularly practiced restorative church discipline, but it gradually faded in the 20th century.
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Interesting and fairly balanced, I thought....

For me as a pastor, I have observed that the more "public" the offense, the more public the repentance that is expected (or required). That seems to be an important part of the Matt. 18 admonition and others like it....

More later,
Charles

[Barb Bouldrey]

When I was a junior in high school, my best friend had an affair with the NYPS director, a married man. Even I did not know about it and did not believe it when I heard...until she told me it was true.

The man was removed from leadership. Both were removed from membership. Both were confronted and prayed for, shown love and a desire for them to stay and come back to God.

I was a teenager who thought it was unfair treatment. But, both the man and girl confessed their sins and came back to God. It took some time, but eventually it happened. The church continued to love them and pray for them and they continued to attend the church.

That was 40 years ago. The next year my friend married and had a family and moved to another state. We lost touch for year. When we went to San Antonio for General Assembly we stopped and spent the night in her home. All those years she stayed true to Christ and to the church, becoming one of the most faithful leaders in her local church.

The man stayed in the church and returned to active leadership in the church, but not with the youth.

That is one example of church discipline being handled correctly and biblically and succeeding.

I have been disappointed over the years in the ministry with confrontations. I have always expected Christians to act like Christians and hurt when they do not.

When I have learned that someone has something against me, I cannot rest until I meet with them and try to remedy the problem and reconcile. I have not had to do that often in 38 year, fortunately, but the times I have reconciliation has not always been possible. One time I only made it worse when I tried to reconcile the situation and I had done nothing wrong.

We have a ministry of reconciliation. We are to do our best to live at peace with all men and women. But it does not always work out that way, even when we try. But we still try.

Barb

[Susan Unger]

A man in leadership left his wife and kids for his girlfriend. He didn't seem to understand why this should be a problem for the church and why he was let go from his leadership position. The pastor and men from board visited him to explain this but don't know if it was effective...since he seemed clueless that this who thing was wrong for a christian to begin with. They tried to stress that it was leadership that he was losing, not their love or the love of God.

A year later he came to his senses but don't think he is back in church. He did apologize though to his wife and tried to apologize to the church and board.