Lakeland, Florida. Todd Bentley

[Scott Hilton]

I have no real idea what to think about what is going on there right now. I try not to be judgemental of it and I try not to be easily swayed either. I have not been a Christian while something like this occurred, so I am looking for guidance from you all on what think on this.

blessings

[Susan Unger]

I have no real idea what to think about what is going on there right now. I try not to be judgemental of it and I try not to be easily swayed either. I have not been a Christian while something like this occurred, so I am looking for guidance from you all on what think on this.

blessings

Could you be more specific? I have heard of Todd Bentley but don't anything more beyond that.

[Scott Hilton]

Could you be more specific? I have heard of Todd Bentley but don't anything more beyond that.
Susan, for I think about 90 days now there has been a "revival" going on in Lakeland Florida. A preacher by the name of Todd Bentley has been healing people and claimed that there has been resurrections as well. He stems from the pentecostal/charismatic group. No one has been able to medically verify (that I have seen) any of this, but people are traveling there from all over the world to see Todd and get healed.

Here are some youtube links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcqmShgqbw8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbBUMv0V-ZU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76WDKzS7Yog&feature=related

[Barbara Moulton]

I take the position of Gamaliel.

[Scott Hilton]

I take the position of Gamaliel.
I think that is essentially where I am at, but I gotta admit that it is peculiar to me. Remember, I don't have a history of things like this taking place where I would actually be interested in it. I had heard of revivals before, but did not care one bit about them.

[Susan Unger]

Susan, for I think about 90 days now there has been a "revival" going on in Lakeland Florida. A preacher by the name of Todd Bentley has been healing people and claimed that there has been resurrections as well. He stems from the pentecostal/charismatic group. No one has been able to medically verify (that I have seen) any of this, but people are traveling there from all over the world to see Todd and get healed.

Here are some youtube links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcqmShgqbw8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbBUMv0V-ZU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76WDKzS7Yog&feature=related

Okay....I think I recall hearing about the never ending revival now.

[Linda Bechtold]

Todd Bentley is speaking tonight in the Dallas area.

[David Pettigrew]

This happens every few years. The last time it was Brownsville, FL, and before that Toronto, ON. Eventually the fervor dies down when all those folks who quit taking their medication end up in diabetic comas. Sorry, been there done that, so I don't have a lot of patience with these guys, sincere though they may be. Us local pastors are left behind to pick up their broken pieces.

[David Pettigrew]

I couldn't watch more than one minute of the first link before I was nearly in tears from anger.

[Scott Hilton]

I couldn't watch more than one minute of the first link before I was nearly in tears from anger.
I did not mean for that to happen David, I am sorry. This stuff just has me confused, since its not really something I have experienced in my walk.

[Susan Unger]

I couldn't watch more than one minute of the first link before I was nearly in tears from anger.

Hmm...guess I should take a look at the video clip to see what the hulabaloo is all about.

[Susan Unger]

I couldn't watch more than one minute of the first link before I was nearly in tears from anger.

If you can discuss it [dont' want to trigger any anger], is it cuz he seems to be exploiting the boy as well as God that angers you?

[Susan Unger]

Ok, I watched the first two clips. CBN triggers my anger :rolleyes: so I didn't watch that one (sorry). Here are my thoughts, Scott:


He does have a very flamboyant style. I have problems with preachers of any denomination who are very flamboyant cuz it comes across to me as being inauthentic.
The people seem to be feeding this flamboyant style. When one woman said "When YOU prayed, then something happened!" That can make it sound like Todd is the one who healed not God.
As I said earlier, it kind of came across as he was exploiting the kids and God which annoys me.
I have been in services where the above did not occur. God came in and healed people so it does occur in revivals. Unfortunately, the flamboyancy, etc overshadows what good God may be doing. Pentecostals strongly believe that God heals and I appreciate that in them. All through chemo and radiation my pentecostal friend would lay hands on me and pray for hours for my healing. Meanwhile my nazarene church might pray 5 minutes tops for me. I consider my friend's prayers to be the avenue of God's healing as it came from love and sacrifice. So when I saw the clips, I thought of my pentecostal friend praying for me...and then prayed that no one would be damaged by this over the top style.

[Barbara Moulton]

He kicks and punches people a lot, according to own testimony. And I saw one video in which he kicked a man who said he had stage 4 colon cancer, right in the stomach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAgLVFx_yh8&feature=related

I have watched quite a few videos today and the feeling in the pit of my stomach kind of makes me feel like I've been kicked.

[Susan Unger]

He kicks and punches people a lot, according to own testimony. And I saw one video in which he kicked a man who said he had stage 4 colon cancer, right in the stomach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAgLVFx_yh8&feature=related

I have watched quite a few videos today and the feeling in the pit of my stomach kind of makes me feel like I've been kicked.

Hadn't seen those videos. If I had a gag emoticon, I'd click it. God does miraculously heal people...although it sounds like this guy's behavior is giving God a black eye with his punching and kicking.

[Glenn Harris]

We get inundated with all the "faith healers" on a regular basis. The part that infuriates me is that the majority of the people who are buying into it fall into one of two catagories:

#1. Poor people who can barely survive but fall victim to the "prosperity gospel" that usually accompanies these type people and waste what little money they have on supporting their lavish lifestyles.

#2. Desparate people who have no hope because they never really understood the basic message of the gospel that our hope is based on Jesus Christ and not our circumstances.

The big one down here is the green prosperity cloths. I've been temped to call to get one and then call him back and tell him what I used it for.

[Gina Stevenson]

The big one down here is the green prosperity cloths. I've been temped to call to get one and then call him back and tell him what I used it for.

And what would that be? To wax your car, polish your shoes, mop the floor ... what, pray tell! :rolleyes:

[David Pettigrew]

I did not mean for that to happen David, I am sorry. This stuff just has me confused, since its not really something I have experienced in my walk.

Definitely no need to apologize, Scott. I just classify this as religious abuse, and nothing hits my buttons like religious abuse. I'm not real opinionated on many subjects anymore, but this one gets me going big time!

[David Pettigrew]

If you can discuss it [dont' want to trigger any anger], is it cuz he seems to be exploiting the boy as well as God that angers you?

Oh, I don't mind anger being triggered in this case. Yes, this is exploitation. Supposedly this boy is healed? Go back and interview him today, and see how he's doing. See how his family's faith is holding up. Now, granted, I don't know this family, but I know enough.

So, yeah, it makes me angry because these counterfeit "revivals" keep springing up every few years, fed by the mass hysteria of desperate, broken people. We just never learn.

[Cindi Hammons]

You Tube Anti Todd Bentley Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWG80y3SYzk&feature=related)

I don't know anything about this guy or his organization, but he gives a different angle on the Bentley issue.

[Susan Unger]

I have no real idea what to think about what is going on there right now. I try not to be judgemental of it and I try not to be easily swayed either. I have not been a Christian while something like this occurred, so I am looking for guidance from you all on what think on this.

blessings

I was just looking at charisma's website [directed there from the 70 evangelical leaders post] and saw some negative comments made about Todd Bentley. I think it is significant when many pentecostals disparage another pentecostal - as in they don't even agree with him. One place I read went farther - said Todd Bentley was deceiving people.

[Susan Unger]

You Tube Anti Todd Bentley Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWG80y3SYzk&feature=related)

I don't know anything about this guy or his organization, but he gives a different angle on the Bentley issue.

Hmm...that definitely was a different take alright.

[Greg Farra]

I take the position of Gamaliel.

I'm not sure I would. Just because something seems to work doesn't make it right. The same could be said of Mormonism.



[

[Barbara Moulton]

I'm not sure I would. Just because something seems to work doesn't make it right. The same could be said of Mormonism.



[

Gamaliel's words reflected a caution about fighting against the work of the apostles. If it was of God it would succeed...if it wasn't it would ultimately fail.

When it comes to Bentley (and individuals like Benny Hinn) I do have some strong feelings. I would certainly caution any individual under my leadership to investigate and think carefully before attending one of these meetings.

I think most people on NazNet can pretty well guess how I feel about these healing ministries, based on things I have written here down through the years.

But when it comes to a public forum, I think I will be more like Gamaliel in my words. I will post cautionary words but not fighting words...if that makes sense.

[Barbara Moulton]

You Tube Anti Todd Bentley Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWG80y3SYzk&feature=related)

I don't know anything about this guy or his organization, but he gives a different angle on the Bentley issue.

Interesting video. Does Bentley really claim that this message has come from an angel named "Emma"? If so, I might become a little more confident about expressing my opinions here :)

[Cindi Hammons]

Yes, I saw another video where he preaches believing in "the angel" and the supernatural. Granted, I have never heard him preach (only video snippets...which were not negative towards him, I might add).

Did you see the video where he discussed how "God" told him to kick a person in the face (with hobnailed motorcycle boots) to start the healing? He also talked about kicking people in the stomach (at the bidding of "God"), and doing some sort of wrestling move to slam the person to the ground (again, at the bidding of "God"). The whole video gave me a visceral sick feeling as he talked. First of all, his actions are considered assault in the US and he could be arrested for his behavior. I wonder if he uses the same physical tactics when healing children?

Disturbing Testimony from Todd Bentley regarding his bizarre behavior (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAgLVFx_yh8&feature=related)

One thing that is revolting to me is the crowd's reaction to his comments. They actually are chuckling and laughing about him kicking the women in the face with his biker boots! Laughing!

[David Molle]

It's persons like him, benny hinn and others that kept
me (and I suspect a very large number of others)
away from God and out of a church for a very long time.

[Barbara Moulton]

It's persons like him, benny hinn and others that kept
me (and I suspect a very large number of others)
away from God and out of a church for a very long time.

Yes...and both of them are Canadian. :(

[Gina Stevenson]

The whole video gave me a visceral sick feeling as he talked. First of all, his actions are considered assault in the US and he could be arrested for his behavior. I wonder if he uses the same physical tactics when healing children?

One thing that is revolting to me is the crowd's reaction to his comments. They actually are chuckling and laughing about him kicking the women in the face with his biker boots! Laughing!
Very sick ... & so sad .... [wonder if the guy grew up with this sort of rough treatment so that, to a/his warped mind, this seems "normal"]. It's downright nasty .......

[Susan Unger]

Very sick ... & so sad .... [wonder if the guy grew up with this sort of rough treatment so that, to a/his warped mind, this seems "normal"]. It's downright nasty .......

And I wonder if those are follow him have grown up in abuse, too, to find this behavior acceptable.

[Gina Stevenson]

And I wonder if those are follow him have grown up in abuse, too, to find this behavior acceptable.

Exactly! One growing up without abuse might find it strangely abusive, for sure. Then there are those who have grown up with abuse who recognize it, anyway (yes!) ... perhaps it is those who've not yet worked their way through denial/whatever that are still accepting such behavior as not being abusive?

[Susan Unger]

Exactly! One growing up without abuse might find it strangely abusive, for sure. Then there are those who have grown up with abuse who recognize it, anyway (yes!) ... perhaps it is those who've not yet worked their way through denial/whatever that are still accepting such behavior as not being abusive?

After knowing some folks who've been abused, I've wondered why some who've been abused can recognize abuse while others can't. It seems to me that those who've been exposed to both abusive and non-abusive environments [abusive parent they have to visit vs non-abusive parent they live with] can recognize the difference. While those who are only exposed to the abusive environment can't tell the difference. But then I also know of siblings who grew up in the same abusive environment - one grew up with an abusive personality and the other not. So, it makes me think it might partly be personality.

I have read a part of a book on misogynism in the church called Christian Men who hate Women. Religious misogynism is worse than regular misogynism because it uses the Bible and God to abuse. A woman who hasn't grown up with abuse can be sucked into believing that abuse is ok because it is God's will. Words can be twisted a certain way out of context to convince a woman who wants to obey God, but isn't firm in her own faith/not had proper theological education, to obey the abuser. The area I grew up in is predominantly bible bapists who preach that a woman has to submit in everything while the man gets away with everything. They twist verses alot, and it takes a strong personality and someone who knows the Bible well, to resist such guilt trips. They tried some of that stuff on me. I didn't succumb cuz I grew up in a home/church free of misogyny plus I knew the Bible well so I could recognize that something was sick in their interpretation of the bible. I would say that this applies to Todd Bentley crusades.

[Greg Farra]

It's persons like him, benny hinn and others that kept
me (and I suspect a very large number of others)
away from God and out of a church for a very long time.

Sorry to hear that. That kind of stuff is not what the church is really all about. If I had a dollar for everyone I've heard that from, I'd be rich. And the people at church who support these charlatans accuse us of being mean.

Yes...and both of them are Canadian. :(

Is that why Benny talks funny? :basic05

Yes, I saw another video where he preaches believing in "the angel" and the supernatural. Granted, I have never heard him preach (only video snippets...which were not negative towards him, I might add).

Did you see the video where he discussed how "God" told him to kick a person in the face (with hobnailed motorcycle boots) to start the healing? He also talked about kicking people in the stomach (at the bidding of "God"), and doing some sort of wrestling move to slam the person to the ground (again, at the bidding of "God"). The whole video gave me a visceral sick feeling as he talked. First of all, his actions are considered assault in the US and he could be arrested for his behavior. I wonder if he uses the same physical tactics when healing children?

Disturbing Testimony from Todd Bentley regarding his bizarre behavior (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAgLVFx_yh8&feature=related)

One thing that is revolting to me is the crowd's reaction to his comments. They actually are chuckling and laughing about him kicking the women in the face with his biker boots! Laughing!

Thanks for the link. I tried posting it last night, but had trouble with the link.
This is indeed disturbing. Not that this guy is doing this stuff, but that people are actually cheering it. It's like the Paula White divorce. Her and her hubby split over 'irreconciliable differences', and they both keep their ministries? And the people being duped by Oprah New Age teachings. Christians are undiscerning. We are having our ears tickled by these false prophets. Maybe someday I'll tell you how I really feel!!! :basic03

[Mike Schutz]

I was reading this thread when my 17 year old son walked by.

He asked, "Dad, is that The Who you are whistling?"
I responded, "Yeah, I guess it is. I wasn't aware of it."

Of course, I was whistling, "We Won't Get Fooled Again." (Wrong again, Pete Townsend!)


The Lakeland, FL events are a deal up here because a friend of mine, a fellow pastor in our ministerium who pastors a Vineyard church, likes to keep up on such things and bring speakers to our community to inform us of "how God is moving." While I love my brother, it seems to be my responsibility to move our conversations away from such topics. Otherwise, I am afraid my Presbyterian and Methodist friends will walk out - or else kick him senseless with their biker boots.:eek:

[John Kennedy]

Have the Bentley meetings produced any of the 'barking' phenomena that seemed to be such a staple in the 'Toronto blessing'?

[David Molle]

"Sorry to hear that. That kind of stuff is not what the church is really all about."
this Ive come to know. thank the Lord!

[Gina Stevenson]

It's like the Paula White divorce. Her and her hubby split over 'irreconciliable differences', and they both keep their ministries? And the people being duped by Oprah New Age teachings. Christians are undiscerning. We are having our ears tickled by these false prophets. Maybe someday I'll tell you how I really feel!!! :basic03

Hmmm ... this is the first I've heard or seen anything re a Paula White divorce. I know, having heard her story, that she's gone from the streets to the pulpit; tho' she's another yeller, I managed to listen long enough to hear her story, b/c it was a mite interesting, actually. But had no idea there was a divorce, tho' it seems one w/such a background as hers just might have had enough trouble with men, that the enemy kept prodding her weak parts (which we all have) until it became something major that could not be overcome ... or something. It's always sad hearing such things, even when we don't happen to agree with their "doctrine" ... it hurts the Body.

[Greg Farra]

Hmmm ... this is the first I've heard or seen anything re a Paula White divorce. I know, having heard her story, that she's gone from the streets to the pulpit; tho' she's another yeller, I managed to listen long enough to hear her story, b/c it was a mite interesting, actually. But had no idea there was a divorce, tho' it seems one w/such a background as hers just might have had enough trouble with men, that the enemy kept prodding her weak parts (which we all have) until it became something major that could not be overcome ... or something. It's always sad hearing such things, even when we don't happen to agree with their "doctrine" ... it hurts the Body.

If you google 'Paula White's divorce', youll get more than enough info. And yes, while I don't agree with thier doctrines or lavish lifestyle, the divorce was sad. But they can't say 'the devil made them do it'.

[Greg Farra]

I was reading this thread when my 17 year old son walked by.

He asked, "Dad, is that The Who you are whistling?"
I responded, "Yeah, I guess it is. I wasn't aware of it."

Of course, I was whistling, "We Won't Get Fooled Again." (Wrong again, Pete Townsend!)


The Lakeland, FL events are a deal up here because a friend of mine, a fellow pastor in our ministerium who pastors a Vineyard church, likes to keep up on such things and bring speakers to our community to inform us of "how God is moving." While I love my brother, it seems to be my responsibility to move our conversations away from such topics. Otherwise, I am afraid my Presbyterian and Methodist friends will walk out - or else kick him senseless with their biker boots.:eek:

Being kicked senseless by biker boots... maybe that explains a lot about me...

[Gina Stevenson]

If you google 'Paula White's divorce', youll get more than enough info. And yes, while I don't agree with thier doctrines or lavish lifestyle, the divorce was sad. But they can't say 'the devil made them do it'.

No, I didn't mean to imply, by suggesting the enemy worked heartily on whatever weakness(es) were there, that it couldn't be helped, tho' it could get to where the overcoming is difficult enough, one does give up. Sounds as tho' they did, rather than somehow working through whatever it was that occurred.

[BobHunt]

Im not sure how many of you, if any, have seen the news resports on MSNBC about the Lakeland Florida revival thats been going on. But here is a small report:

"This is the 13th ressurection of this outpouring. Todd Bentley is saying to the media, "the dead are being raised. My brother died. We requested an all night wake. At the funeral we played the revival. We declared my brother alive. At 2:19 a.m. my brother began to stir in his coffin. My brother sat up in the coffin and began praising God."

Folks, this sounds like a Halloween joke. Am I too unbelieving? Is this false? I dont want to be unkind or judging someone, but how can this be?

[Susan Unger]

Im not sure how many of you, if any, have seen the news resports on MSNBC about the Lakeland Florida revival thats been going on. But here is a small report:

"This is the 13th ressurection of this outpouring. Todd Bentley is saying to the media, "the dead are being raised. My brother died. We requested an all night wake. At the funeral we played the revival. We declared my brother alive. At 2:19 a.m. my brother began to stir in his coffin. My brother sat up in the coffin and began praising God."

Folks, this sounds like a Halloween joke. Am I too unbelieving? Is this false? I dont want to be unkind or judging someone, but how can this be?

There's already a thread going on about this. http://www.naznet.com/community/showthread.php?t=20998

So far, the consensus is that he is abusive and is taking advantage of desperate people.

[BobHunt]

sorry, I guess I should check this board more before posting...so I dont double post a subject. I could tell you all a big joke about these kinds of people/services but I dont want to be in bad taste.

[Greg Farra]

sorry, I guess I should check this board more before posting...so I dont double post a subject. I could tell you all a big joke about these kinds of people/services but I dont want to be in bad taste.

Oh, come on Bob. I'm the king of bad taste. You can tell me. Send a private message if that'll make you feel better. :basic03

[Darren Joyce]

I have no real idea what to think about what is going on there right now. I try not to be judgemental of it and I try not to be easily swayed either. I have not been a Christian while something like this occurred, so I am looking for guidance from you all on what think on this.

blessings

Just a disclaimer I made a poor joke on another thread about the lakeland revivals in regards to the evangelist baby video, I wasn't aware of this information at the time.

Apparently Todd Bentley has stepped aside for the time being from these revivals: http://www.revivallakeland.org/

I was very uncomfortable with these revivals, but I don't rejoice in how this developed. My fiancee found a loving family with a charismatic movement when she was young. Many in her community were watching these revivals and some even went to Florida. Reading Richard Foster's Streams of Living Water I began to appreciate the role of the charismatic movement, but I am still really uncomortable with it, and I try to check my cynicism whenever things come up.

Apparently with the fall of Bentley its another spin out for the charismatcs as they try to regain credibility. I am unaware of who Dutch Sheets but my fiancee says that those within the charimatic movement view him as one with a lot of integrity. He posted this statement I find interesting but I have a hard time with checking my cynicism on. What do you think?
http://realmsofglory.wordpress.com/2008/08/23/dutch-sheets-a-statement-and-appeal-regarding-lakeland/

[Susan Unger]

I am unaware of who Dutch Sheets but my fiancee says that those within the charimatic movement view him as one with a lot of integrity. He posted this statement I find interesting but I have a hard time with checking my cynicism on. What do you think?
http://realmsofglory.wordpress.com/2008/08/23/dutch-sheets-a-statement-and-appeal-regarding-lakeland/

Thanks for the link. I have always enjoyed Dutch Sheets' writings. He has always come across with integrity to me.

[Barbara Moulton]

Apparently Todd Bentley has stepped aside for the time being from these revivals: http://www.revivallakeland.org/



Thank you for bringing this update to our attention. I appreciate that you provided the link and some basic informatin, without the type of commentary that sometimes accompanies news like this.

Blessings,
Barbara

[David Parker]

Am glad to read that C. Peter Wagner (http://realmsofglory.wordpress.com/2008/08/25/update-on-lakeland-by-c-peter-wagner/) has gotten involved. And Charisma magazine (http://fireinmybones.com/index.php?col=081308~Life+After+Lakeland%3A+Sortin g+Out+the+Confusion) tackles the excesses too.

[John Kennedy]

I did not mean for that to happen David, I am sorry. This stuff just has me confused, since its not really something I have experienced in my walk.

You have no idea how fortunate you are. People like this have a way of really 'poisoning the well' in regard to the perception non-Christians have of Christianity.

[Susan Unger]

Am glad to read that C. Peter Wagner (http://realmsofglory.wordpress.com/2008/08/25/update-on-lakeland-by-c-peter-wagner/) has gotten involved. And Charisma magazine (http://fireinmybones.com/index.php?col=081308~Life+After+Lakeland%3A+Sortin g+Out+the+Confusion) tackles the excesses too.

Both were good articles.

[Richard Call]

I live in FL and if anyone was raised from the dead...guess what? His picture would be in the paper. This has not happened in the Vero Beach Press Journal. These guys are phonies and false prophets to be avoided.

Richard Call

[Zach Wingo]

This topic is very personal for me because a the Nazarene church up here in our town has become completely accepting of these teachings from the extreme side of the Pentecostal movement. On April 28th the church board held and emergency meeting and voted unanimously to send the Pastor and his wife to the "Florida Healing Outpouring". About a month before this happened I received an email from one of my best friends who went on a retreat with their youth group as a chaperone and when he returned he wrote me and said, "Zach, it was crazy...people were being slain in the spirit for hours. People were speaking in tongues..." He didn't even know what to think about these things, all he knew it it made him really uncomfortable. They practice a new thing in the Pentecostal movement called "Treasure Hunting" where they ask God for clues and then they go out around their town and look for the "clues" and then pray for peoples healings. One teen girls in the Naz. church wrote in her blog about laughing for hours uncontrollably because of the Holy Spirit.

A local pastor in our county died from cancer just 1 week after attending the Florida Healing Outpouring and being declared on video in front of thousands of people as being "HEALED". My mom went to school with a woman in a wheel chair and couldn't walk but at a healing service like this she got up ran around the stage and was declared healed, but my mom tells me that after the adrenaline wore off about 24 hours later, she couldn't walk again and lost her faith and no longer believes in God.


I honestly believe that this stuff and many of the things we see in the Pentecostal movement are unbiblical and distract and distort the Gospel. Every time you talk to someone in these movements all they can talk about is how God healed someone but rarely if ever tell how God saved them. As some have already said, people look to the "healers" as if they have some power and it's as if God is an afterthought. They treat healing as if they can just tap in to the Force (like starwars) and take it with them and use it as they please. In fact, a Pentecostal church/family ministry that uses the Naz. church (which introduced them to these teachings) went down to Florida to "get the anointing and bring it back" to our town. The pastor of the church down there said, "I know that many of you have sold everything you own to get here and don't worry...we'll give you an opportunity to sow everything you got from the sales into this ministry and what God is doing here." I find it so sad that people believe they have to run to men for healing instead our loving father. They believe we have to receive an anointing through a man instead of being empowered by the Holy Spirit. They preach healing more than salvation and this is the saddest of all.

[BobHunt]

You know I have a cousin who is all wrapped up in this very thing, and keeps sending me news items from Lakeland revival. They have raised the dead back to life supposedly, and healed hundreds of people.......do you think I would be terrible if I said that the devil has a counterfeit for every thing the Lord has? dont want to judge but thats all I can think of.

[David Pettigrew]

This topic is very personal for me because a the Nazarene church up here in our town has become completely accepting of these teachings from the extreme side of the Pentecostal movement. On April 28th the church board held and emergency meeting and voted unanimously to send the Pastor and his wife to the "Florida Healing Outpouring". About a month before this happened I received an email from one of my best friends who went on a retreat with their youth group as a chaperone and when he returned he wrote me and said, "Zach, it was crazy...people were being slain in the spirit for hours. People were speaking in tongues..." He didn't even know what to think about these things, all he knew it it made him really uncomfortable. They practice a new thing in the Pentecostal movement called "Treasure Hunting" where they ask God for clues and then they go out around their town and look for the "clues" and then pray for peoples healings. One teen girls in the Naz. church wrote in her blog about laughing for hours uncontrollably because of the Holy Spirit.

A local pastor in our county died from cancer just 1 week after attending the Florida Healing Outpouring and being declared on video in front of thousands of people as being "HEALED". My mom went to school with a woman in a wheel chair and couldn't walk but at a healing service like this she got up ran around the stage and was declared healed, but my mom tells me that after the adrenaline wore off about 24 hours later, she couldn't walk again and lost her faith and no longer believes in God.


I honestly believe that this stuff and many of the things we see in the Pentecostal movement are unbiblical and distract and distort the Gospel. Every time you talk to someone in these movements all they can talk about is how God healed someone but rarely if ever tell how God saved them. As some have already said, people look to the "healers" as if they have some power and it's as if God is an afterthought. They treat healing as if they can just tap in to the Force (like starwars) and take it with them and use it as they please. In fact, a Pentecostal church/family ministry that uses the Naz. church (which introduced them to these teachings) went down to Florida to "get the anointing and bring it back" to our town. The pastor of the church down there said, "I know that many of you have sold everything you own to get here and don't worry...we'll give you an opportunity to sow everything you got from the sales into this ministry and what God is doing here." I find it so sad that people believe they have to run to men for healing instead our loving father. They believe we have to receive an anointing through a man instead of being empowered by the Holy Spirit. They preach healing more than salvation and this is the saddest of all.

What district is this? I can't imagine such a situation not being addressed by the district.

[Zach Wingo]

I think the bible clearly teaches that there are those who will come and deceive people through signs and wonders.

What district is this? I can't imagine such a situation not being addressed by the district.

I don't want to share too many detail because although it appears that the DS isn't doing anything, I'm not 100% sure he's not. I don't want him to be viewed as not doing anything because the reality is he might, it just might not be obvious to everyone. However, for over about 11 months prior to the boards decision to send the pastor to Lakeland, I had be in contact with the DS on many occasions with direct quotes, links to blogs, etc. about all the things mentioned above. I was always very specific with First and Last names so it's not like it couldn't be verified. Whatever he might have done obviously didn't stop him from attending the Lakeland outpouring. I am at the very least very disappointed that they are moving so slow in dealing with this issue.

To give you and idea of how this is working out, one lady from the Pentecostal church that uses the building stated, "I see almost no difference between our church and the Nazarene church. It's almost as if we're one church already."

This was from someone related to some currently attending there:

Over the weekend I attended there, somewhat out of curiosity (since I had only ever attended once before, many many years ago) and also out of devotion to my mother, sister, and friend. After my visit, I wholly share your concerns. I don't know exactly where the church used to stand, but presently they seem to be heading toward apostasy, if not blasphemy. I look at 2Thess 2 and read something that seems applicable:

2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is unveiled, the son of perdition,
2Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is honored, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, declaring of himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be unveiled in his own time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He is now restraining, until it is raised from out of the midst.
2Th 2:8 And then the lawless one will be unveiled, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who are perishing, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
2Th 2:12 that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I am praying that they are not to become part of that falling away though it appears that that is where they are headed. I know the hearts of my mother, sister, and friend and know they are sincere in their walk with God and that they are striving to please Him. I worry that they would be "so soon removed" (Gal 1:6), yet I also believe there is hope. Even the pastor seems to be only reluctantly convinced that he's heading down the right path (based on his message Sunday). The essence of his message Sunday was, "I wouldn't be going this way but for all the signs that suggest it's of God." He seems to know in his heart something isn't right but "can't ignore the evidence." Trouble is, the "evidence" is what we're instructed not to look to as evidence Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

[Laurie Florence]

My concern about these types of events or "revivals", is the impression they give to people who have not yet accepted Jesus. They see people "slain by the spirit" and acting strange, or falling to the floor after some hocus pocus "healer" touches them. This can lead them to the wrong impression of christians, and make it difficult for those who are trying to provide them with an accurate testimony of Jesus.

And, what about those who really believe they are healed, but find out they really are not? It can be very damaging to their faith.