Claiborne, Shane - Jesus for President

[Meghan Schoonover]

Anybody read/ing this? I'm reading it right now...lots of overlap with Irresistible Revolution, but I just skim those parts. Wish I'd read this first, actually.

Jesus for President (http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-President-Politics-Ordinary-Radicals/dp/0310278422/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215997851&sr=8-1)

(Uh oh, I can't edit the title to follow the format of the forum...sorry! Can a mod do this for me, please?)

[Heidi Anderson]

Reading this now. Really good - love Shane Claibourne. What do you think?

I love the history and the political message.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

I am currently reading it.

[Meghan Schoonover]

Thoughts, anyone? I'm having a hard time articulating my thoughts. <thinking>

[Hans Deventer]

Thoughts, anyone?

Not yet, I've just ordered the book.

[Jay Stiegelmeyer]

A buddy and I went to the Jesus for President tour a couple nights ago in Dallas. My friend had read most of the book but I had not. The presentation was pretty cool. Very unique. I bought the book and can't wait to get into it.

[Jon White]

I'm going through the book right now. It definitely stretches the thought process. Shane (and Chris Haw) is (are) good at making people "uncomfortable." Perhaps the church (not just the Church of the Nazarene) needs to be a little uncomfortable, though. Their thoughts won't sit very well with those who combine a zealous nationalism (Shane and Chris mostly write about the United States here---apologies to those from other nations) with their spirituality. However, since when did nationalism fit into the "spiritual" equation anyway? It's been a VERY good read. Do I agree with everything mentioned in the book? No. But Shane and Chris give a "clarion call" to the church today---a very NEEDED one.

[Paul Whitaker]

This is a review from Amazon:

61 of 66 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
The Most Important Christian Book Published in the Last 50 Years, March 11, 2008
By Just Bill (Grand Rapids, MI United States) - See all my reviews
(TOP 1000 REVIEWER)

I'm a writer. Yet, I'm at a loss for words to describe Shane Claiborne and Chris Haw's new book Jesus for President. Let me break this review down into two sections: (1) Design, and (2) Content.

DESIGN

Put simply, Jesus for President is a wonder to behold. I've never seen a book designed with as much attention to detail and visual impact -- not on the outside, mind you; on the INSIDE. The only thing comparable is House of Leaves, the debut novel by American author Mark Z. Danielewski...and Sandman graphic novels designed by the incomparable British artist Dave McKean. Sure, Jesus for President contains regular text just as you'd expect to find in a book. But, in addition, this groundbreaking new book also sports hand-written margin notes, little doodles and drawings, photos with typewritten descriptions, pieces of fabric, pressed flowers, varying type-faces and -sizes, arrows drawn in ink pointing to important passages, circled words, underlines, pages that look as though somehow took a pink highlighter to them, and a bibliography so clever that it, alone, is worth the price of admission.

In other words, everything about this book screams "I HAVE BEEN CRAFTED WITH LOVE." You can pick up this book, turn to a page at random and simply enjoy what your eyes behold. If Jesus for President doesn't win an award for its design, attention to detail (recycled paper, printed in America), and its ability to grab -- and hold -- one's attention from the very first page, there is no God.

CONTENT

Studies show that Americans today are changing their religious faiths almost as quickly as they change their underwear. They jump from church to church, from religion to religion, and hover -- at any given moment -- somewhere between a creeping agnosticism and a growing, bitter, atheism. And I haven't even mentioned the rampant pessimism that's coloring everyone's outlook, especially in the area of politics.

Once-committed Christians are not immune to this modern-day spiritual malady. In fact, many of them lead the exodus away from churches. Or, they remain in church out of a sense of duty to parents, spouses, or friends (or simply out of fear of reprisal from God), and become burned out and depressed, growing ever more frustrated that their Christian faith doesn't seem to mean anything, do anything, or change anything.

Like Neo in The Matrix, Christians everywhere have begun to ask questions about the nature of reality. They want answers because what they're getting now -- from the media, from Hollywood, even from their own churches -- doesn't ring true.

In that now-famous scene in The Matrix, Morpheus offers Neo two pills: one red and one blue. "You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland. And I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes." As Neo reaches for the red pill, Morpheus suddenly says, "Remember. All I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more."

Jesus for President is like taking the red pill.

And, like Morpheus, all Shane and Chris offer is the truth. Nothing more.

And, baby, that rabbit hole goes pretty deep.

At the heart of Jesus for President is the answer to the question, "Why does the Bible seem so dynamic, yet my church seems so bland, spineless, and ineffectual?" Or, to put it another way, "Why does America -- one of the most heavily-churched countries in the world -- seem to continue going down the drain...economically, politically, morally, and spiritually?"

The answer is found in the first few pages of Jesus for President:

"Too often the patriotic values of pride and strength triumph over the spiritual values of humility, gentleness, and sacrificial love."

"We in the church are schizophrenic: we want to be good Christians, but deep down we trust that only the power of the state and its militaries and markets can really make a difference in the world."

"Rather than placing our hope in a transitional church that embodies God's kingdom, we assume America is God's hope for the world, even when it doesn't look like Christ."

Jesus for President is nothing less than reality-shaking, butt-kicking, rock-solid TRUTH. It presents a Jesus -- and a Christianity -- wholly foreign to today's pew-warmers. It presents a Jesus who is strong in his humility, bold in his compassion, and more concerned with feeding the poor among us than taking up arms to fight those on the other side of the world.

Yes, Jesus for President is heavily critical of American politics. Yes, Jesus for President is a slap in the fat face of mega-church dilettantes who cruise to Sunday school in their Hummers...and leave without dirtying their Manolo Blahnik shoes, scuffing their Hermes handbags, or smudging their Armani suits.

Jesus for President is for those who are sick to death of political lies, bloated lifestyles, and a Christian faith so far removed from the one found in the Bible that they teeter on the brink between pitching it all and...pitching it all. This is a get-off-your-butt-and-roll-up-your-sleeves Christianity. If you don't want to get down and dirty with the world, forget about Jesus for President.

But...

If you're tired of living an anemic version of the faith Jesus espoused in the Bible, you're ready to take the red pill.

I've been reading Christian books for 20 years. Not just books published within the last two decades; rather, books published within the past 150 years or more. I've never seen anything like Jesus for President. I can honestly say, without hyperbole, that Jesus for President is the most important Christian book published in the last half century. Follow it, and you WILL see a change in your life. You will also see a change in your community, and in your country.
Comment Comments (9) | Permalink | Was this review helpful to you? YesNo (Report this)

[Christa Woodward]

My brother wrote a review of this book on his blog - I don't know how to post a link on here. But its www.paznaz.org and then just click on the box that says "Pastor Scott's Blog" its a couple of entries down. I've started it - I loved "Irresitible revolution" so I'm excited to really get into it...

[Jeremy D. Scott]

All right...I was going to wait until I completely finished it, and I may regret this post, but I take a long time to finish books these days.

I am glad for Shane Claiborne. I'm glad for his community, for what he's doing, and that he and Mr. Whatever-the-other-guy's-name-is wrote this book. I may even end up recommending it to people in my own community to read prior to November.

However...this is one guy from whom I don't think we can or should expect a "one-size-fits-all" understanding of the gospel.

Though I pretty much agreed with him, I did not appreciate the potshots taken at the evangelical church, many of which had little or nothing to do with the topic at hand (what I thought was something along the lines of "how followers of Christ interact with politics and government"). Again, I agreed with the essence of what he was knocking, but the manner in which he knocks down is difficult for me to accept. Maybe it's me...

One reason that I really appreciate McLaren is that he seems to try very hard to be a bridge between various groups of the Church: ecumenically, philosophically, and across generations. I don't get this feeling with Claiborne. Maybe he's just so hurt from his experience with the evangelical church growing up, I don't know.

I couldn't get into his first book, Irresistible Revolution. I know, I'm in the minority of my peers. My wife read it and loved it. I couldn't get into it. One friend after reading it said, "Yeah, that's great stuff. It's a great challenge. It doesn't apply to me."

Anyway, I'm sure that Claiborne is a prophet of God (and likely, if he were to read this post, he'd be glad for my brash response...something along the lines of, "Woohoo! That's the kind of response I was hoping for!"). But I guess I prefer other methods of delivery.

I may have more to say later.

[Jay Stiegelmeyer]

Mr. Whatever-the-other-guy's-name-is wrote this book.

Chris Haw

I couldn't get into his first book, Irresistible Revolution. I know, I'm in the minority of my peers. My wife read it and loved it. I couldn't get into it.

I read it and I am with your wife.

I may have more to say later.

I have only read section 1 of Jesus For President although I did attend the book tour presentation in Dallas last week. I may have more to say later as well.

[Meghan Schoonover]

Jeremy, I've been feeling some of the things you mentioned. I read IR and loved it...several points he made (particularly about "where's the poor" in our individual congregation) and pacifist things, stuck me considerably. I'm having a hard time finished JfP, though...a lot of it is repeats from IR or stuff I've heard elsewhere (i.e., Brian McLaren). I love the layout, though, and I honestly wish I'd read JfP before IR, I think it would be a lot fresher to me. But now most of the time I'm going, "Yeah, yeah, ok," instead of having ideas stick to me and inspire me. I do agree with most of it and I *want* to really like it, but I'm slogging through at this point (about 3/4 of the way through).

[Jon White]

One reason that I really appreciate McLaren is that he seems to try very hard to be a bridge between various groups of the Church: ecumenically, philosophically, and across generations. I don't get this feeling with Claiborne. Maybe he's just so hurt from his experience with the evangelical church growing up, I don't know.


You're right, Jeremy. Shane Claiborne seems to be very negative toward the church. Granted, there are things the church has done that would give folks a very negative attitude. However, he seems to take it to an extreme. And you were right when you wrote that this really doesn't fit with the overall tenor of the book (the subtitle is "Politics for Ordinary Radicals"). It would be interesting to know what his experience with the church was when he was growing up. He's from Tennessee, so maybe there's the whole "Bible Belt" thing to deal with. I'm not sure either.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

I think that part of what I was getting at was that I am one of the first to say that the evangelical church has some major things that I see need change (so this is where I agree with Claiborne). However, going about changing it in the manner that he is, with the verbiage that he is, only further pushes away those who are already averse to this kind of talk. Maybe I'm seeking a "more better way," one of grace, perhaps.

Then again, I imagine that Claiborne may be seeking to speak pretty harshly, in a John the Baptist, prophetic manner.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Here's a paragraph I thought I'd offer just as a tidbit for those who haven't/aren't reading the book, as an example of where the book goes (I like this, by the way):

"This is what Jesus had in mind: folks coming together, forming close-knit communities and meeting each other's needs - no kings, no major welfare systems, no presidents necessary. His is a theology and practice for the people of God, not a set of suggestions for empire." (page 90)

(the only thing I'd add is that there is a King, just not the general notion of "king," but I'm sure Claiborne would agree...)

[Scott Daniels]

Jeremy, I think I liked it for the reasons you don't, but the reasons you don't like it make me wary to recommend it to the people in my church (which is also - strangely - another reason I liked it).

There's nothing in it that isn't in Yoder, Hauerwas, Brueggemann, NT Wright, Clapp, McLaren, etc. But most of those folk have written at an above-Grisham-level and have tended to (as you have said) lessen the blow of some of their prophetic speech through being gracious.

The things I found enticingly disturbing about J4P are:
1. It's written so plainly nearly any literate person gets it.
2. The design is really cool and invites a whole level of involvement for people who can't get through "Resident Aliens."
3. Shane and Chris are trying to live radically which is where I think the edge comes from (not from their anger). Its the camel-hair and locust part of their lives that make their message so prophetic for me. They too may get swallowed up by the dragon as they go out on "tour" - I hope not - we need voices calling from the wilderness because they're scarier than voices from endowed chairs or mega-pulpits (even when those voices are saying the right things).

[Jay Stiegelmeyer]

There's nothing in it that isn't in Yoder, Hauerwas, Brueggemann, NT Wright, Clapp, McLaren, etc. But most of those folk have written at an above-Grisham-level and have tended to (as you have said) lessen the blow of some of their prophetic speech through being gracious.

Again, I haven't finished the book. But, on the tour, there were certainly no punches held. It was pretty awesome...I enjoyed it. You're right, Scott. I don't really think they are worried about being gracious and catering to anyone's feelings or traditions...just calling it as they see it.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

All right, I've been able to pick the book back up again after a few crazy weeks of little time. This book is killing me. I've gone from being frustrated (as in my post above) to feeling very humbled, and even ashamed. I am very appreciative of this book.

I had to stop and put the book down at this line to think about it for a while. It's given in relation to war, protecting freedom, and the place of the United States in the world in being peace-keeper. It still haunts me:
"Idolatry is what we would sacrifice our children for."

[Wesley Anderson]

This book has been messing with my head ever since I picked it up- and I mean that in a good way. The writing is very simple, but yet profound.

What I loved the most about J4P is that Claiborne and Haw are actively seeking for "His Kingdom come." Too often we have been content to accept the world as a broken, rotten place- and we decide that doing anything in response is only a waste of time and energy. To me, this book is all about Christians passionately seeking the Kingdom of God on earth as it is in Heaven.

[Hans Deventer]

I'm currently reading the book and I've come to the conclusion that I have a big problem with it. The problem is that I think these guys are right and I don't really know what to do with that conclusion. :basic04

It still haunts me:
"Idolatry is what we would sacrifice our children for."

Page 209. I didn't remember that you wrote this, but when I read the sentence a few minutes ago, it struck me immediately as well.

I wish we could somehow learn to live Kingdom instead of the empire life again.

My brother wrote a review of this book on his blog - I don't know how to post a link on here. But its www.paznaz.org and then just click on the box that says "Pastor Scott's Blog" its a couple of entries down. I've started it - I loved "Irresitible revolution" so I'm excited to really get into it...

You can find it here: http://drtscott.typepad.com/pastor_scotts_thoughts/2008/07/13---jesus-for-president.html

[Jeremy D. Scott]

I finally finished it. Overall, great stuff. It's very challenging (not to read, but in content).

I toyed with the idea of posting the lyrics to the song on page 324 (http://pensieridelmio.blogspot.com/2008/07/come-now-and-join-feast-from-greatest.html)in the thread on "DNC Trashes Flags," but thought better of it. I want people who idol-ize America to read the book, not be turned off by it.

Shane and Chris didn't tell me who to vote for (I didn't expect or want them to), but they did help me again tone down my hope in a government and nation and increase my hope in a Savior and His Kingdom.

[Ryan Scott]

I did, indeed, manage to finish this book before the election and it has profoundly shaped what I'll do on Tuesday. (For more on that, see the Current Events Forum).

I don't think there's much to add to what has been said, so I'm just going to post some of my favorite quotes:

"You can always tell the true prophets because they usually end up getting killed (though they might also get a national holiday in their honor)."

"Destroying evil might also destroy good."

"[God's Kingdom] is one you can participate in, but cannot build."

"Break the crowns, but leave the heads unharmed."

"In the Kingdom of God we descend into greatness."

"If you want to know your idols consider what you are willing to kill for."

"Idolatry is what we would sacrifice our children for."

"Nations do not lead people to peace, rather people lead nations to peace."

"The church is a people called out of the world to embody a social alternative that the world cannot know on its own terms. We are not simply asking the government to be what God has commissioned the church to be. After all, even the best government can't legislate love. We can build hundreds of units of affordable housing (a good thing, by the way) and people still might not have homes. We can provide universal health care and keep folks breathing longer (another nice move), but people can be breathing and still not truly be alive. We can create laws to enforce good behavior, but no law has ever changed the human heart or reconciled a broken relationship. The church is not simply suggesting political alternatives. The church is embodying one."

"...if the world does not hate us, perhaps we should question whether we are really a part of another kingdom."

[Meghan Schoonover]

I finally finished this about a week ago. The thing that impacted me most was definitely his view of the military, war, pacifism, etc. I *want* to agree with him about those things but man is it hard to change a lifetime of thinking. Strangely, I raise my children non-punitively, so it's easy for me to see that on a larger scale but I'm still not sure how to live that out in my daily life. I know some of it is I already feel like I've made choices that are "odd" and I'm still afraid of what people will think if I'm even more strange (within the context of this culture). And then that's a fight within myself that that's even a reason for me. :basic04

[Tonya Sneed]

Was on Naznet to check that other ongoing yucky thread that was my demise. . .and saw this Jesus for President thread that I couldn't resist.

Anyone know how to get in touch with Shane Claiborne?

I understand he lives in Philly (yes?), and I wanted to make him aware of Jimmy Dennis' case, www.jimmydennis.org Jimmy just won another evidentiary hearing, so I'll likely be going to Philadelphia again in December. I'd love to figure out a way to drag Shane along to the courthouse. :)

I was once given someone's email address who was some kind of agent working on Shane's behalf, and I emailed her, but I never heard back from anyone at all, so I don't even know if this person passed on my info to Shane.

I was impressed with what Shane wrote before he went to Iraq. Don't know if that's in his book, but here it is -- very worth the read:

http://thesimpleway.org/macro/shane_iraq.html

[Meghan Schoonover]

I would guess the best way to get ahold of him would be through the simply way website...

[Tonya Sneed]

Is that at the link that I have above? I guess I could try again, but I didn't have any luck with the contact info on that link in July, before I went to Philly. Or is there another website?

[Meghan Schoonover]

That's the site that he has in the book...hmmmm....does it have a phone number?

[Tonya Sneed]

When I dial the phone number on the link above, it says "215-427-2667" has been changed to "215-427-2667" that is, the same number.

In any case, I just did some more searching and found a snail mail address with a PO box. I'll try that.

[Meghan Schoonover]

Weird!