Two Articles in the "EP"

[Charles W Christian]

I confess: I read Evangelists' Perspective. I try to read something out of most of the denominational publications that come my way (there are many, as you know!)....

EP represents the views of a distinct group of Nazarenes who are concerned with changes taking place within our conceptions and actions as a denomination, and even though I find myself in disagreement with many of the writers who contribute at times, I do see value in listening to a wide range of voices. Here are a couple of articles that appeared, and a brief observation:

Sherman Reed, "The Drift Toward LIberation Theology" -- Dr. Reed sees a danger in the "Marxist nature" of Liberation theology, and he cites that it may focus TOO much upon a kind of social "liberation" that ignores or even discredits the transformation of the Gospel in the individual. I think Dr. Reed's article certainly demonstrates some dangers that are indeed inherent in much of the ways that Liberation theology has been articulated since the 20th Century. However, I feel he is a bit too negative about the positive contributions of much of Liberation theology, such as: the renewed emphasis upon the importance of Community, the necessity of hearing and heeding (actively) the voices of the poor/marginalized, and the strong connection in liberation theology with speaking truth to "the powers" in our society.

Linda Seaman, "Our Centennial, Our Message" -- Dr. Seaman emphasizes the need for Nazarenes not to shy away from our key message of holiness, especially holiness that involves a "crisis experience." She is quick to remind that whether or not we change our doctrinal statement (in Article 10, for instance) we still need to emphasize the transformative power of God over legalism. Seaman sees a distinction with emphasizing "process" over "crisis" by stating that "process" is simply about possibility, while "crisis" is is concerned with "reality." Here I think she draws too big of a distinction. After all, doesn't our message emphasis BOTH the reality of a change nature AND a call to a growth in grace which drives us toward new possibilities? Anyway, I think her article has some merit, but like many articles in EP, there seems to be a hint of "campaign" against changing article X. It's a pity, too, because her article has much to say about all points of the "spectrum" of opinion about the future of Article X.

Anyone else take the time to read these (or others)??? Just curious. Thanks for letting me get this off my chest...

Blessings,
Charles

[Michael B. Ross]

Charles, after reading the same issue yesterday, I picked up my laptop and typed some notes. My purpose was simply to write a response for my own benefit.

But, after reading your comments, I decided I would post my thoughts. They are not well written, but they are in the form in which they came to me.

BTW, I would guess you have read some William Stringfellow in days gone by. :)

Now, my notes.


I just read my Denomination’s most recent issue of a quarterly magazine targeted toward evangelists—those who serve the church primarily through an itinerant ministry.

This latest issue’s theme as stated on the front cover is “the drift.” Many of this edition’s articles focus on the causes or dangers of spiritual drifting.

I agree that drifting is a plague that could infect any Christian, including me. I have had stagnant times in my commitment to Jesus Christ, mostly as a result of my not giving proper attention to the spiritual disciplines.

As I read the articles, however, I sensed that some of the authors were more concerned over the changes in methods and learning styles they were observing in the church than they were over any widespread decline in personal piety.

After reading the magazine, I reflected on my half-century journey with Christ. I was amazed at how much I have drifted.

I intentionally use the word “drifted” for two reasons. First, it is the term repeated in the magazine. Second, “drift” is the word that best describes my life-long journey. Oh, I have been intentional about knowing God and maturing in my faith, but much of what I have discovered and learned seems to have simply come my way. Or, I guess, I could say I drifted into it.


I have drifted from fearing a tyrannical God into loving a God of mercy.
I have drifted from a very narrow view of the church into an understanding that God’s people are everywhere in all shapes and sizes.
I have drifted from believing only that which Christians do is good into confessing that God also uses evil-makers to reveal his Kingdom.
I have drifted from a fear of knowledge into a hunger for truth, knowing all truth is in Jesus Christ.
I have drifted from a loyalty to a mechanical and stale Bible into a romance with the Scripture’s dynamic revelation of God.
I have drifted from a sense of my own salvation resulting from my bungled efforts into a realization that it is God’s love for me and his steadfastness that holds me true.

Every day I awaken to the beauty of God’s love for me and for us all. I am not sure how I got here except to say I drifted into it. Of course, it was God’s undertow of love that has pulled me into his presence, but it was his calling, not the result of my intentional resistance to change.





I confess: I read Evangelists' Perspective. I try to read something out of most of the denominational publications that come my way (there are many, as you know!)....

EP represents the views of a distinct group of Nazarenes who are concerned with changes taking place within our conceptions and actions as a denomination, and even though I find myself in disagreement with many of the writers who contribute at times, I do see value in listening to a wide range of voices. Here are a couple of articles that appeared, and a brief observation:

Sherman Reed, "The Drift Toward LIberation Theology" -- Dr. Reed sees a danger in the "Marxist nature" of Liberation theology, and he cites that it may focus TOO much upon a kind of social "liberation" that ignores or even discredits the transformation of the Gospel in the individual. I think Dr. Reed's article certainly demonstrates some dangers that are indeed inherent in much of the ways that Liberation theology has been articulated since the 20th Century. However, I feel he is a bit too negative about the positive contributions of much of Liberation theology, such as: the renewed emphasis upon the importance of Community, the necessity of hearing and heeding (actively) the voices of the poor/marginalized, and the strong connection in liberation theology with speaking truth to "the powers" in our society.

Linda Seaman, "Our Centennial, Our Message" -- Dr. Seaman emphasizes the need for Nazarenes not to shy away from our key message of holiness, especially holiness that involves a "crisis experience." She is quick to remind that whether or not we change our doctrinal statement (in Article 10, for instance) we still need to emphasize the transformative power of God over legalism. Seaman sees a distinction with emphasizing "process" over "crisis" by stating that "process" is simply about possibility, while "crisis" is is concerned with "reality." Here I think she draws too big of a distinction. After all, doesn't our message emphasis BOTH the reality of a change nature AND a call to a growth in grace which drives us toward new possibilities? Anyway, I think her article has some merit, but like many articles in EP, there seems to be a hint of "campaign" against changing article X. It's a pity, too, because her article has much to say about all points of the "spectrum" of opinion about the future of Article X.

Anyone else take the time to read these (or others)??? Just curious. Thanks for letting me get this off my chest...

Blessings,
Charles

[Charles W Christian]

Charles, after reading the same issue yesterday, I picked up my laptop and typed some notes. My purpose was simply to write a response for my own benefit.

But, after reading your comments, I decided I would post my thoughts. They are not well written, but they are in the form in which they came to me.

BTW, I would guess you have read some William Stringfellow in days gone by. :)

Now, my notes.


I just read my Denomination’s most recent issue of a quarterly magazine targeted toward evangelists—those who serve the church primarily through an itinerant ministry.

This latest issue’s theme as stated on the front cover is “the drift.” Many of this edition’s articles focus on the causes or dangers of spiritual drifting.

I agree that drifting is a plague that could infect any Christian, including me. I have had stagnant times in my commitment to Jesus Christ, mostly as a result of my not giving proper attention to the spiritual disciplines.

As I read the articles, however, I sensed that some of the authors were more concerned over the changes in methods and learning styles they were observing in the church than they were over any widespread decline in personal piety.

After reading the magazine, I reflected on my half-century journey with Christ. I was amazed at how much I have drifted.

I intentionally use the word “drifted” for two reasons. First, it is the term repeated in the magazine. Second, “drift” is the word that best describes my life-long journey. Oh, I have been intentional about knowing God and maturing in my faith, but much of what I have discovered and learned seems to have simply come my way. Or, I guess, I could say I drifted into it.


I have drifted from fearing a tyrannical God into loving a God of mercy.
I have drifted from a very narrow view of the church into an understanding that God’s people are everywhere in all shapes and sizes.
I have drifted from believing only that which Christians do is good into confessing that God also uses evil-makers to reveal his Kingdom.
I have drifted from a fear of knowledge into a hunger for truth, knowing all truth is in Jesus Christ.
I have drifted from a loyalty to a mechanical and stale Bible into a romance with the Scripture’s dynamic revelation of God.
I have drifted from a sense of my own salvation resulting from my bungled efforts into a realization that it is God’s love for me and his steadfastness that holds me true.

Every day I awaken to the beauty of God’s love for me and for us all. I am not sure how I got here except to say I drifted into it. Of course, it was God’s undertow of love that has pulled me into his presence, but it was his calling, not my intentional resistance to change.


Thanks, Michael. As always, I appreciate your insights and reflections. Also, I'm glad someone other than I read these things! :basic03

Blessings,
Charles

[Scott Daniels]

Liberation: I believe that we have to find the balance between the social and the personal, but in the current state of the church (at least in N.A.) we're in no danger of losing our sense of individualism. I think that some of the critique of the social gospel movement is valid as it closely aligned with liberalism. But although liberalism tended to downplay the particularity of scripture, I think the post-liberal shift back to a gospel that emphasizes social transformation is driven by a reaffirmation of scripture's paticularity. In other words, I believe it's Jesus, not Marx driving the church back to social holiness and away from an indivdualized faith. One could easily say back to Dr. Reed that there is great concern in the "Jeffersonian nature" of revivalist theology.

Process and Crisis: I understand the concern that an emphasis on process can easily sound like "getting around to it someday", but isn't the danger of an emphasis on crisis a narrowing of our hope for transformation down to that which is possible in an instant? Crisis and process have to be kept in tension.

I doubt that any of us ever fully innocent of it, but theology that is driven by methodology always seems to end up in interesting places. It would be nice to figure out how to have it the other way around.

[Marsha Lynn]

Process and Crisis: I understand the concern that an emphasis on process can easily sound like "getting around to it someday", but isn't the danger of an emphasis on crisis a narrowing of our hope for transformation down to that which is possible in an instant? Crisis and process have to be kept in tension.

Yes, yes, yes. Thank you for this, Scott. I think you have cut to the core of the issue. I hear so much about what happens in the instance of entire sanctification. Growth following that instant is acknowledged, but it's simple growth, not further transformation at a fundamental level. What I see in my own life is a path that has rises and falls but trends generally upward interspersed with crisis points which represent opportunities for transformation. None of those crisis points have been so significant as the promises I often hear, which was a great source of concern for many years. However, what I have come to realize is, first of all, when put together they may not come up to the rosy picture so often painted and so seldom demonstrated but they certainly represent true transformation that affects every aspect of my life, and, second, that none of them represents a point of arrival beyond which there is only hope for growth. I have had past points of challenge and surrender which changed me in fundamental ways. I expect to have future points of challenge and surrender which continue that change.

To me, one of the greatest aspects of the message of holiness is that I am not stuck where I am today, that God's transforming power is not done with me yet. I am being sanctified by His grace.

This thread is interesting to me in that the major source of preaching that most pastors encounter likely comes from our evangelists. If these articles represent the perspective of the evangelists which influences the perspective of pastors, no wonder it comes across as so ubiquitous. At the grassroots level where many pastors have come through the course of study and have little or no seminary exposure and any supplementary teaching comes from evangelists with similar backgrounds, there is almost no representation of any other perspective.

Marsha

[Susan Unger]

I hear so much about what happens in the instance of entire sanctification. Growth following that instant is acknowledged, but it's simple growth, not further transformation at a fundamental level...

...To me, one of the greatest aspects of the message of holiness is that I am not stuck where I am today, that God's transforming power is not done with me yet. I am being sanctified by His grace.

This thread is interesting to me in that the major source of preaching that most pastors encounter likely comes from our evangelists. If these articles represent the perspective of the evangelists which influences the perspective of pastors, no wonder it comes across as so ubiquitous. At the grassroots level where many pastors have come through the course of study and have little or no seminary exposure and any supplementary teaching comes from evangelists with similar backgrounds, there is almost no representation of any other perspective.

Marsha

So many good points, Marsha!

[Hans Deventer]

Anyone else take the time to read these (or others)???

Charles, I first (and last) read the magazine while I was in Nampa last year, staying at Bob Manley's place. He had a few lying around.

I think the magazine smells of fear. It sounds like Custer making a final stand at Little Big Horn. And it's a crying shame that evangelists focus on old methods rather than on encouraging one another to use their gifts in new ways in a changing world.

Yesterday, I was in a monastery in Belgium. When I saw the monks leave after the last service of the day, I thought by myself: I can say I have seen this. Not too many generations after me will. The youngest of the 16 monks was in his 50's. The system may have worked for 1500 years, but it doesn't any longer in Western Europe.

I get a similar feeling from the EP.

[Gene Tatsch]

... I reflected on my half-century journey with Christ. I was amazed at how much I have drifted.
....

Hmmm - "drifted" or "grown" ???:basic03

[Gene Tatsch]

... To me, one of the greatest aspects of the message of holiness is that I am not stuck where I am today, that God's transforming power is not done with me yet. I am being sanctified by His grace.
...

... AND the fact that He puts His Spirit in us to Counsel us in the transformation:basic05

[Michael B. Ross]

Like I wrote, Gene. I used the word "drifted" because that is the term used in most of the articles AND I wanted to accentuate that much of my spiritual development was unintentional, at least on my part. But, yes, I would hope it has been growth.

Hmmm - "drifted" or "grown" ???:basic03