Jesus and the Canaanite woman

[Hans Deventer]

Matt 15:21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." 23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." 24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." 25 The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. 26 He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs." 27 "Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." 28 Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

I've heard a few explanations of this story through time, none making a lot of sense. Today I read one where it simply said that Jesus actually changed his mind, based on the faith and persistence of the woman. Since God has been known to change his mind in the Old Testament, why couldn't Jesus in the New? This does make sense to me.

[Doug Kitchen]

Matt 15:21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." 23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." 24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." 25 The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. 26 He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs." 27 "Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." 28 Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

I've heard a few explanations of this story through time, none making a lot of sense. Today I read one where it simply said that Jesus actually changed his mind, based on the faith and persistence of the woman. Since God has been known to change his mind in the Old Testament, why couldn't Jesus in the New? This does make sense to me.


Hans,
I hadn't remembered that there was a "canaanite woman" in the NT. ;)

I think your suggestion is that the meaning behind this event is that Jesus had made up his mind about her before he talked with her. Therefore, to grant mercy he would need to change his mind. If, instead, you start with a different presupposition you can get to a different meaning. I don't presuppose that Jesus (or God) has made up Their mind about anything or anyone before those events occur.

It could be that Jesus hadn't made up his mind at all! It looks like a test to me...sort of like the story of the persistent widow or Abraham and sacrificing isaac.

It is interesting that she is identified as a canaanite woman since all the canaanites were supposed to be eradicated a 1000 years before. Maybe Jesus' response to the disciples was a bit humorous/facetious or sarcastic.

Jesus was being asked to do a spectacular thing and Jesus' response (not his ability) was contingent on her faithfulness.

but I could be wrong...

Doug

[Hans Deventer]

I think your suggestion is that the meaning behind this event is that Jesus had made up his mind about her before he talked with her.

Not about her, but about His mission: "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." Which had consequences for her.

Therefore, to grant mercy he would need to change his mind.

That's correct.

If, instead, you start with a different presupposition you can get to a different meaning. I don't presuppose that Jesus (or God) has made up Their mind about anything or anyone before those events occur.

Well, seems we have a major point of disagreement. I would not dare to state what you are saying here. God isn't mindlessly wandering around in a "what will we do next" mode, in my view. I believe His actions are very purposeful. But, our actions, words, faith (or lack of it) may change His mind (Ex 32:14, Jer 18:7-10).

It's exactly the explanations that make Him "play" with her that I don't think make sense.

[David van Beveren]

Not about her, but about His mission: "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." Which had consequences for her.



That's correct.



Well, seems we have a major point of disagreement. I would not dare to state what you are saying here. God isn't mindlessly wandering around in a "what will we do next" mode, in my view. I believe His actions are very purposeful. But, our actions, words, faith (or lack of it) may change His mind (Ex 32:14, Jer 18:7-10).

It's exactly the explanations that make Him "play" with her that I don't think make sense.
Next Sunday I'll preach on the preceeding verses (1-20) so had read the whole portion. And, indeed, again I'm still not content with the regular explanation, that there must be another reason than pure unwillingness to respond to her need. It occur to me that it could be that Jesus still was learning how wide and long and high and deep his misson was. The encounter with this lady was a learning experience.

[Jon Twitchell]

I don't know.

But this is what I learn...

A meager crumb of "marvelous, infinite, matchless grace" is still "marvelous, infinite, matchless grace."

How often do we forget the abundance of God's grace and mercy?

[Jamie Wayne]

Maybe the point of that story was about what the disciples may have learned about how He handled that.

I imagine that Jewish disciples of the Jewish Messiah may have believed Jesus when He said that He was only sent for the lost sheep (Jews) of Israel.

Maybe He wanted His disciples to stop telling Him to send her away; maybe He wanted them to have compassion and argue with Him that He should heal her.

Also, maybe He was making the point that He would not heal anyone who asked, simply because they asked. How often was it that "faith" healed - not simply asking for healing?

[Randy Wise]

Matt 15:21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." 23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." 24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." 25 The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. 26 He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs." 27 "Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." 28 Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

I've heard a few explanations of this story through time, none making a lot of sense. Today I read one where it simply said that Jesus actually changed his mind, based on the faith and persistence of the woman. Since God has been known to change his mind in the Old Testament, why couldn't Jesus in the New? This does make sense to me.

Jesus's first mission was to Israel and Matt 10:5-6 seems to support His first reply to the women. I do believe He responded to her faith in Him and changed His mind. As a twist I have thought maybe the Father gave the women the wise reply and that was part of what Jesus saw.

Randy

[Randy Wise]

Maybe the point of that story was about what the disciples may have learned about how He handled that.

I imagine that Jewish disciples of the Jewish Messiah may have believed Jesus when He said that He was only sent for the lost sheep (Jews) of Israel.

Maybe He wanted His disciples to stop telling Him to send her away; maybe He wanted them to have compassion and argue with Him that He should heal her.

Also, maybe He was making the point that He would not heal anyone who asked, simply because they asked. How often was it that "faith" healed - not simply asking for healing?

Keep in mind as food for thought that Jesus's first reply was based on the assignment given Him from God so I assume that was part of His reasoning in His reply to the women. His mission from God was to go first to the lost sheep of Israel. I would also assume as in Peter the faith the women had would have come from above, which to me also played a part in Jesus's consent to heal the women's daughter. In other words the Fathers Will played a part in Jesus's reasoning.

Randy

[Hans Deventer]

Keep in mind as food for thought that Jesus's first reply was based on the assignment given Him from God so I assume that was part of His reasoning in His reply to the women.

Yes. I assume that as well.

His mission from God was to go first to the lost sheep of Israel. I would also assume as in Peter the faith the women had would have come from above, which to me also played a part in Jesus's consent to heal the women's daughter. In other words the Fathers Will played a part in Jesus's reasoning.

Good and interesting point, Randy. We don't often allow for too much development in Jesus. It seems to go against Him being God. But the Bible does talk about growing and learning in relation to Jesus.

[Doug Kitchen]

Not about her, but about His mission: "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." Which had consequences for her.

Well, seems we have a major point of disagreement. I would not dare to state what you are saying here. God isn't mindlessly wandering around in a "what will we do next" mode, in my view. I believe His actions are very purposeful. But, our actions, words, faith (or lack of it) may change His mind (Ex 32:14, Jer 18:7-10).

It's exactly the explanations that make Him "play" with her that I don't think make sense.

Hans,
I never stated that God is mindlessly wandering around. Of course, it was 7am when I wrote what I wrote so maybe I was mindlessly wandering around.

I don't know of anywhere in scripture where it is clear that God takes all or any of our choices away. I agree that God's actions are purposeful and in particular when He acts there is purpose, mission and determination - but there is not determinism. The fact that God cursed the Canaanites at one point in history was due to their behavior. The fact that Jesus blesses this one woman was due to her behavior. God's purpose and mission did not change but His actions did.

There are many places in scripture where God tests people. I think this story is an example where Jesus tests His disciples and the woman. I don't think Jesus had a major revelation in these few verses. Throughout His ministry Jesus broke down barriers, praised non-Jews for their faith, etc. God had been, was and continues to reach out to all the Canaanites.

I think Jesus changed His mind about this one woman. He also reiterated a recurring theme to the disciples: they should stop being prejudiced bigots.

I can't explain the exact statements that Jesus made because the scripture doesn't say what tone voice, facial expressions, etc. accompanied the statement "I was sent only...". He might have been saying that at that time He was not sent to other groups (i.e. He was having enough trouble with his own people spend more time reaching out to other groups) but... there is this one individual woman who right now ready to be a humble servant of God in spite of her genetics.

If in these few verses, Jesus changed His mind about the Canaanites, it seems to me He is almost capricious in His judgments. in other words, Jesus' mind (purposes) stayed the same but His methods and messages were different in different situations.

maybe that's clearer or maybe it muddier...let me know ;)

Doug

[BobHunt]

So, if He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, that leaves you and I out, doesnt it? Isnt He speaking of the Jewish nation?

[Doug Kitchen]

So, if He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, that leaves you and I out, doesnt it? Isnt He speaking of the Jewish nation?

Bob,

I think if you only look at that one verse, that is the only conclusion you can draw. If, instead, you consider the whole narrative, then I think you can draw a much more wonderful conclusion: that regardless of our genetics, ancient religious proclamations against us, prejudices, and the like, God is merciful to the humble.

I think one of the truths of the Old Testament is that God cared deeply for all people. Abraham is tested by seemingly being told to sacrifice his son, but in the chapter before Hagar is saved in the desert by the God who listens. And God made a mighty nation of Ishmael as well.

I think the verse in question is difficult to interpret because it seems contradictory to rest of the story. My thinking is that it is either a test or that Jesus was keeping his bigger picture in view of the disciples. He was busy cleaning house in Israel (because they needed it not because they deserved it).

In the midst of the bigger cosmic goals in front of Jesus, the humility and faithfulness of this one woman was recognized by Jesus. Jesus set aside a larger agenda to heal a family. She could have tried to solve her problems by going somewhere else but in spite of the obvious rejection that she would face, she chose to go to Jesus.

Jesus was not too busy saving the world that He didn't have time to save one person.

Doug

[BobHunt]

Can we say, that after Jesus saw her great faith, how could He do anything else but answer her request?
Can we change His mind today (Im not sure I like putting it that way) by excercising great faith when we ask Him requests?
I remember the old song Great Is Thy Faithfulness where the line goes "there is no shadow of turning with Thee" which I always interpreted as Jesus never changes. Am I befuddled?

[Randy Wise]

Yes. I assume that as well.



Good and interesting point, Randy. We don't often allow for too much development in Jesus. It seems to go against Him being God. But the Bible does talk about growing and learning in relation to Jesus.

I don't think we need to see this as development in Jesus. His first answer was correct and in both His answers it was His decision to make. He responded to her faith. It was interesting to me how the women took the sting out of the request. The women wasn't trying to trick Jesus she was asking for mercy for her daughter, but she did what many who tried to trick Jesus couldn't. She disarmed His reply. Was there a larger hand in the picture? I guess we will never know, but it is fun to ponder.

Randy

[Randy Wise]

Can we say, that after Jesus saw her great faith, how could He do anything else but answer her request?
I believe Jesus agreed with you on this.


Can we change His mind today (Im not sure I like putting it that way) by excercising great faith when we ask Him requests?
I remember the old song Great Is Thy Faithfulness where the line goes "there is no shadow of turning with Thee" which I always interpreted as Jesus never changes. Am I befuddled?
You can look at it as the mother was interceding on behalf of her daughter. That pleases God.

Randy

[Doug Kitchen]

Can we say, that after Jesus saw her great faith, how could He do anything else but answer her request?
Can we change His mind today (Im not sure I like putting it that way) by excercising great faith when we ask Him requests?
I remember the old song Great Is Thy Faithfulness where the line goes "there is no shadow of turning with Thee" which I always interpreted as Jesus never changes. Am I befuddled?

Maybe rewording just a bit,

that after Jesus saw her great faith, He wouldn't do anything else but answer her request. (He could have ignored her request but He wouldn't)

He certainly could have ignored her, but it is not in the nature of Jesus/God to ignore people.

I think we can respond to God like the canaanite woman - humility, bringing other-centered requests. But we don't change God's mind by doing this. His nature (or at least past actions) determines that He will respond favorably to those who seek mercy.

God never changes His "being". Our mistake is that we tend to believe in once-lost always lost. The related (but not quite as onorous) statement is once-saved always saved. Neither statement is supported by scripture. Just because the canaanites were a condemned people once, did not mean that they were always that way. Just because we were condemned once does not mean we are condemned forever. God is just, loving, merciful, etc and wishes that none are lost. Thus we can be confident that as we are faithful, that God will be even more so. The assurance of our salvation is not in our beliefs or statements but in God's faithfulness and constancy.

((I don't think you're befuddled Bob!! ))

Blessings,

Doug

[Randy Wise]

So, if He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, that leaves you and I out, doesnt it? Isnt He speaking of the Jewish nation?

Jesus was sent as Gods salvation for the whole world, but Jesus Himself was sent to Israel. That same message that Jesus preached to Israel was then sent to the whole world.

Randy

[David Parker]

I think the lesson to us is clear. Persist in our prayers and don't give up. Pray in faith per Heb 11:1.

My earlier thoughts on the matter. (http://www.naznet.com/community/showpost.php?p=156462&postcount=8)

[Crystal Lutton]

I believe that the verse shows that Jesus always knew that his mission was "first to the Jew and then to the Gentile". In this act he allowed his disciples to witness a faithful Gentile receiving grace and mercy. She was unwilling to allow a cultural difference to keep her from GOD and He has never been one to allow it to. Throughout Scripture any race could convert to Judaism or live as a God fearer. Here, and in other places, Jesus makes clear before his death that His purpose is for Gentiles too.

I think it's a beautiful story and reveals so much about God's heart.

[Mike McVey]

Matt 15:21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." 23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." 24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." 25 The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. 26 He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs." 27 "Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." 28 Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

I've heard a few explanations of this story through time, none making a lot of sense. Today I read one where it simply said that Jesus actually changed his mind, based on the faith and persistence of the woman. Since God has been known to change his mind in the Old Testament, why couldn't Jesus in the New? This does make sense to me.

I think it might help to bring in the 10 verses preceding this passage. It happens to be the RCL gospel passage this coming Sunday. I have always struggled with this passage as well, and my only relief was knowing that it was a society of shame/grace. According to Richard Rohrbaugh, this is the only time Jesus ever lost an argument in all of the gospels. This makes even more sense reading this into the context of what we put in our body does not defile us but what comes out.

[Randy Wise]

According to Richard Rohrbaugh, this is the only time Jesus ever lost an argument in all of the gospels.

I almost regret this line of thought. It is noted from the scripture that the women actually agree with the Lords reply. She then asked in a less stinging manner. Yes but....

Randy