How much of our spirituality is enviromental?

[Ian Gentles]

I am always interested in the lifes, backgrounds, of christians who have it "Spiritualy together" and those who seemingly dont! My observations lead me to see, that folks who are, "Comfortable", live in less "Stresfull areas", who manage to avoid "Major trials", tend to seem more spiritualy together, happy in their faith, more prone to rejoicing! So I do wonder how much of their enviromental factors, (Good things) are comfused with spiritual well being?

[Ian Gentles]

OK to try an open up this subject a little, How does living in a tranquile location help our spirituality?

[Barbara Moulton]

OK to try an open up this subject a little, How does living in a tranquile location help our spirituality?

I am very interested in this topic Ian and have some thoughts. I'll post next week...my duaghter is home to celebrate her birthday this weekend. :-)

[Wanda Van Winkle]

Some people rejoice even during trials, and some people do not rejoice even if they live in tranquil conditions. I've witnessed both examples.

I recently wondered about this topic, however, when I noticed that I and most of the people I know seem to base their beliefs on what they've witnessed or how they were raised.

If you've seen healing, you believe in healing. If you haven't, you don't.

If you've been blessed financially, you believe in financial security. If you haven't, you don't.

The list can go on and on.

It really doesn't matter that we claim the same God or the same Bible. It seems our environment influences us--whether we choose to believe it.

In the end, do we truly believe in God as the benefactor of our lives, or do we truly believe in our experience, environment, upbringing, etc.?

I don't have the answer, but I have noted this conundrum. We talk about faith. But we really only have faith for what we have already experienced. So is it faith? Or is it simply life experience?

I'll be interested in the responses.

[Barb Bouldrey]

My 4 years at Olivet were wonderful spiritual years for me. I settled things with the Lord once and for all as a freshman and got involved in everything spiritual I could...Bible studies, service projects, prayer meetings.

My 4 years of being in a spiritual environment grounded me as a Christian, as a Nazarene and soon-to-be-pastor's wife.

But, there were many students in that same environment who lived on campus and graduated not knowing the Lord. They had the same environment I had, the same choices I had, but they chose a different path.

4 children can be raised in the same Christian home in a strong Christian church environment, but some of them never settle things with the Lord, even rebeling.

When I was in college, the Indianapolis district on the Olivet region was known as the very strict, legalistic district. You usually could tell the students from that district by the way they dressed. They were raised in a strict, sheltered Nazarene environment, but not all of them ended up serving the Lord.

Environment can help us "know" but it does not guarantee that it will make us "be" spiritual.

It is a matter of the heart....and mind. A choice and determination to become Christ's and live that way, staying spiritual and growing...IN SPITE OF OUR ENVIRONMENT.

Now, it was harder as a college student to stay as close to the Lord as I should when I went home for the summer to a non-Christian home environment. But that was my fault, not my family's.

Barb

[Ian Gentles]

Agreed Barb, I loved my college days, especialy as our college was in a lovely small, fairly rural, coastal town. I felt that the natural enviroment was so helpfull spiritualy as we rejoiced in Gods creation. But yet, many students who were determined to go into missions and ministry, in the end didnt do soo, which I feel was sad.

[Ian Gentles]

Some people rejoice even during trials, and some people do not rejoice even if they live in tranquil conditions. I've witnessed both examples.

I recently wondered about this topic, however, when I noticed that I and most of the people I know seem to base their beliefs on what they've witnessed or how they were raised.

If you've seen healing, you believe in healing. If you haven't, you don't.

If you've been blessed financially, you believe in financial security. If you haven't, you don't.

The list can go on and on.

It really doesn't matter that we claim the same God or the same Bible. It seems our environment influences us--whether we choose to believe it.

In the end, do we truly believe in God as the benefactor of our lives, or do we truly believe in our experience, environment, upbringing, etc.?

I don't have the answer, but I have noted this conundrum. We talk about faith. But we really only have faith for what we have already experienced. So is it faith? Or is it simply life experience?

I'll be interested in the responses.

Very very interesting points. I agree that many rejoice in their finacial c
decurity, as it it were some soiritual provision just for them!
I also love your point about whether or not we have witnessed a healing affecting our beleifes regards such things.

[Stephen Kerr]

Sure a lot of our responses are environmental (I believe you are including social and cultural in using that one word). We are certainly shaped by the way we are raised, what we are around, who teaches us and what they teach, and on it goes. But there is something that we don't want to forget-- and that is-- no matter where you are or who you are with God permeates everything. In Him we live and move and have our being. It is Christ who holds all things together-- and, according to Acts-- the Spirit of God has been poured out on all flesh-- so that God is working and drawing all people to Himself. But certainly, I am very blessed that my parents raised me in a christian home- and they received that blessing from their parents- who in turn- to some extent- received it from theirs. But, we have all known people who came out of their environment to accept Christ-- and they become new people-- although often times they still battle character problems formed from a lack of godly upbringing-- but they are no less Christians for that-- albeit, time and attention to their own faults and flaws will soon render them well on their way. BF Skinner thought it was all environment with his theories on behavioralism. But that seems contrary to Scripture which indicates that we have a bent towards evil-- an inclination towards false things. Of course, now Skinner has had to take a back seat to those who deem humans little more than genes arranged a certain way. Let's face it, understanding human behavior is complex. Understanding our motivations for faith are also complex. But, having read Abraham Maslow's heirachical pyramid of needs, it is interesting to note that he concluded that some people find the top level of human existence (his term-Self-actualization) without having their basic needs met. His whole book began on the assumption that self-actualization could only be achieved if your basic needs were met of food, water, shelter, before moving up to having all the other needs met. Maslow, however, noted that many people by-pass their needs and still attain self actualization and he linked this with faith/belief as well as other factors.
One final thought: Good things can be bad things. "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven" and again, "If you want to be perfect, go sell everything you own, give it to the poor, and come follow me." Jesus wanted nothing to get in the way and thought that wealth and riches could. In fact, do a study on the idea of suffering and persecution in the New Testament and you will soon see that our Western ideals are out of whack with the Kingdom of Heaven. "Blessed are the poor for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

[Cindi Hammons]

BF Skinner thought it was all environment with his theories on behavioralism. But that seems contrary to Scripture which indicates that we have a bent towards evil-- an inclination towards false things. Of course, now Skinner has had to take a back seat to those who deem humans little more than genes arranged a certain way.

As a social worker, I consider myself a Behaviorist when it comes to human actions/behavior and I strongly believe that our lives are mostly a result of our behavior and our choices. Bad choices=bad results. (I see myself agreeing with Dr. Phil more than I'd like to admit.) Skinner had some interesting points, but his experiments were an unmitigated disaster...especially when dealing with the human babies and taking away human stimulation. I'm sure they are all in therapy to this day! In reality, most of the theorist had some good points...I'd guess the best theory would be to be eclectic and take good points from all of them.

I think environment does affect our choices! The diversity of our environments can make a huge impact on the lives we end up living. However, environment is not the only issue. As others have mentioned in this thread, some people in the exact same environment turn out differently. But, another way to think about this...nobody lives in the exact same environment! Each person travels through with different experiences. One might say that siblings live in the exact same environment. Not true! One may be favored more by one parent, or may have different friends at school, or may be shy and not get as involved in church. The list goes on and on. So, even if it appears to be the same environment on the surface, it can be radically different in reality. Another issue can be genetic. Take the situation of adoptive children...the old nature vs. nurture argument. Genetics do make a big difference on temperament, how we deal with stress and tendencies to react. And then finally, yes, we do have sinful nature in us. But, I think many of the things I have mentioned tell us why we react differently to that nature. For instance, I know a set of twins. They were born seconds apart, had a good home, grew up in church and are both nice people. They are as different in personality as night and day. Yes, they both have the sinful nature, but they have dealth with it differently. One is as gentle as can be and has always been open to the holy spirit, while the other is just the opposite in personality. The good news is that they are both good Christians. My point is, that even genetics can't completely determine how we will turn out.

Trying to figure this out is like trying to separate a huge vat of cooked spaghetti! ;)

Cindi H.

[Ron Davis]

Our environment changes us in more ways than just spiritually. The interesting thing to me is the same environment changes different people in different ways.

[Ian Gentles]

Also, some of our social eviroment may affect how we feel about the church!

[Bob Carabbio]

In my case -

With Good health insurance, fine hospitals, and "above average doctors". With Social Security, Visa, Mastercard, Discover, GOOD credit, and job securuty -

Who needs God???

[Ed Sherman]

Call me naive, but environmental spirituality is not spirituality at all according to St. Paul. Are we not called to something higher? Equating environmental comfort to a measure of spirituality is akin to equating suffering to sin. It just doesn't wash, ask Job. To those who have the most is given the burden of providing for those that have the least, no? This is a very interesting topic and I fear I am ill-equipped to answe it with any authority. Color me grateful for the comments of those that know better than I do.

[Ian Gentles]

Call me naive, but environmental spirituality is not spirituality at all according to St. Paul. Are we not called to something higher? Equating environmental comfort to a measure of spirituality is akin to equating suffering to sin. It just doesn't wash, ask Job. To those who have the most is given the burden of providing for those that have the least, no? This is a very interesting topic and I fear I am ill-equipped to answe it with any authority. Color me grateful for the comments of those that know better than I do.

That wasnt what i meant!
Sometimes folks feel God nearer, are helped, by viewing nature....havent we all enjoyed camps, not wishing to return to a city?
Also, people in struggles, may hold on to their faith, but are robbed often of the joy of it, because of everyday struggles.
Others suffer greatly in other ways, and yes hold on to their faith, however our spiritual emotions are always affected to some extent by enviromental factors.

[Ian Gentles]

In my case -

With Good health insurance, fine hospitals, and "above average doctors". With Social Security, Visa, Mastercard, Discover, GOOD credit, and job securuty -

Who needs God???

We all need God Bob, it was Jesus Who said it was, "Easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kigdom of Heaven".

[Gina Stevenson]

Ian, did you forget Mr. Carabbio is a good one for TIC posts? ;)

We all need God Bob, it was Jesus Who said it was, "Easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kigdom of Heaven".

[Ed Sherman]

Upon further review it seems to me that we are not promised continual, uninterrupted joy in our spiritual life - however comfort is always available to us if we can but ask for it, no? Great thread!

[Mark Doble]

If one lives in a hornets nest of Witches and spiritualists as we do here in Pefferlaw one is constantly on his guard against spiritual attack.

It is said that Jackson's Point, just down the road from us, is the focal point in North America of active Witch covens...!

So to answer your question, only by praying constantly and having an up to date prayer life can you battle the onslaught of firey darts... Those darts do have a habit of finding a crack in your shield. As well it will give you a piece of mind. Not saying that a perfect shield can stop the bothering either.

Many times my wife wants to move from this area to where it is less dangerous...But how does one know where to move?

We sought the Lord for almost 5 years before moving to Pefferlaw! So, He put us in the midst for a reason.! Gee, thanks...eh

[Larry Parsons]

It not that we need God he need us to carry on his work..

[Larry Parsons]

Before anyone jump me I beter say: We all need God/Christ in our life.
so we can carry out his work by livinng for Him while building his kingdom here on earth. A Nazarene preacher stated God does really care about your welfare or happiness He care about your holiness. If this so we need God to
live a holy life'