If Obama is such a wonderful father

[Jim Franklin]

as pronounced by Michelle then how come he kept taking his daughters to a church where the preacher swore during his sermons?

[Wilson L. Deaton]

as pronounced by Michelle then how come he kept taking his daughters to a church where the preacher swore during his sermons?

Perhaps the McCain Campaign should have a placard made saying "National Press attacks Palin makes me vote for McCain."

I used to think you didn't like the idea of the press being biased. I think now it is simply the direction of the bias (as you perceive it) that bothers you.

Wilson

[Ryan Scott]

as pronounced by Michelle then how come he kept taking his daughters to a church where the preacher swore during his sermons?

First of all, Jeremiah Wright said a lot of things, but I don't recall any videos where he was using profanity.

Secondly, Obama said himself, once they had kids, they didn't go to church very much anyway.

[David Parker]

First of all, Jeremiah Wright said a lot of things, but I don't recall any videos where he was using profanity.

Secondly, Obama said himself, once they had kids, they didn't go to church very much anyway.

He told O'Reilly last week that they went twice a month.

And I have seen several videos of Wright using foul language. One in particular of him cursing America. TV usually "beeped" the curses, but they are intact on Youtube.

It wasn't the odd curse that I found so troubling, but the Black Liberation Theology, the bitter race baiting, and the class warfare. That Obama sat 20+ years under this guy tells me much...even Oprah left years ago due to the controversies.

[Charles W Christian]

This is ridiculous!

There was much more happening at the church than people gathering to hear the snippets from two sermons in 20 years, I assure you. I have friends who have attended the church, and it is a multi-faceted place that has done a lot of good in the community.

The McCains didn't exactly have their kids in church every time the door was open, as I understand it.

You guys are above all this kind of rhetoric!

CWC

[Hans Deventer]

You guys are above all this kind of rhetoric!

Apparently not :basic04

[Cindi Hammons]

Give me a break!

[Bruce Carriker]

as pronounced by Michelle then how come he kept taking his daughters to a church where the preacher swore during his sermons?

I can't answer that question, Jim. But perhaps you ought to examine John McCain's personal life and conduct a bit more closely, before you start casting aspersions in Obama's direction.

[Kent Campbell]

I'm wondering how many of us have taken our children to church and they (as well as us) have heard horrible theoloy from the puplit. Heard things said about God that aren't true. Have witnessed people who claim to be Spirit-Filled Christians absolutely destroy other people. I am much more concerned about those things than if a pastor happens/happened to curse a few times.

[Heidi Anderson]

I'm not sure church attendence should be the measurement of good parenting. I'm sure if a survey (poll) was done here on NazNet...it would tell interesting things about kids of "good parents" and their church attendence.

[Jon Bemis]

I'm not exactly an Obama fan, but I was impressed when I saw his girls react to him during the DNC following Michelle's speech. I thought at the time, "Those kids love their dad." To attack someone as a parent in order to gain a foothold in a political argument is lame.

[Jim Franklin]

It was a straight forward query for as I thought about my efforts as a young father to train up my boys in the way they should go I certainly would not have continued attending a church where the pastor openly used profanity. I can not remember any Nazarene pastor or preacher in my experience preaching anything but the gospel.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

It was a straight forward query for as I thought about my efforts as a young father to train up my boys in the way they should go I certainly would not have continued attending a church where the pastor openly used profanity. I can not remember any Nazarene pastor or preacher in my experience preaching anything but the gospel.

Jim...

The gospel of Jesus Christ is profane.

Sometimes preaching the gospel involves using words, phrases, and images that command attention to a point. Jesus did it. Paul did it. The prophets did it.

If not for some of his later antics, I'd actually have a lot of respect and admiration for Jeremiah Wright. There I said it, publicly. Finally. There's been a lot of junk and unrighteousness in the foreign policies of the United States, and Rev. Wright, as a minister of the gospel has every prophetic reason to challenge it. Contrary to much conservative opinion (not to mention Sarah Palin's), "USA" does not equal "God's Initiatives."

I think it's pretty clear around here that if I were voting today, I'd be voting for Senator Obama. But my biggest disappointment with him was the way in which he handled the whole Trinity & Wright situation.

Your assumptions from way afar of the father Barack Obama are uncalled for. If he was obviously abusing his children it would be grounds for questioning his ability to be President.

...or perhaps if he neglected and cheated on his wife, or if his family was crucially involved in some activity that poisons millions of American families, then it might be grounds to challenge his morality.

[Cindi Hammons]

...or perhaps if he neglected and cheated on his wife, or if his family was crucially involved in some activity that poisons millions of American families, then it might be grounds to challenge his morality.

:laughing:laughing:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Mark Metcalfe]

The gospel of Jesus Christ is profane.

Careful of the word, please. The gospel is certainly an offence but not profane.

Profane
1. Corrupt morally or by intemperance or sensuality.
2. Violate the sacred character of a place or language.

Antonym: sacred

[John Kennedy]

I can not remember any Nazarene pastor or preacher in my experience preaching anything but the gospel.

Jim -

I've heard a LOT of Nazarene preachers - the overwhelming majority of them were 'right on'. But I'm not sure I'd go THAT far!

[Glenda Harvey]

Most larger Churches have several services with Sunday School or Childrens Church during each service. There usually isn't a seperate Sunday School hour so in most cases while the parents are in Church the children are in Sunday School and don't usually hear the Pastor's sermon.

[Hans Deventer]

Careful of the word, please. The gospel is certainly an offence but not profane.

Profane
1. Corrupt morally or by intemperance or sensuality.
2. Violate the sacred character of a place or language.

Antonym: sacred

Yes it is. To the very core of it. In the 2nd sense.

[Wesley Anderson]

While I'm not comfortable with the Jeremiah Wright issue, I'm equally uncomfortable with Gov. Palin pronouncing that the Iraq War was America carrying out God's will.

I'm not sure either side really wants to go down this road with the opposite candidate.

[Gina Stevenson]

While I'm not comfortable with the Jeremiah Wright issue, I'm equally uncomfortable with Gov. Palin pronouncing that the Iraq War was America carrying out God's will.

I'm not sure either side really wants to go down this road with the opposite candidate.

Actually, while reading this, something in my head went, "Oh, my goodness! But they are going down this road .... How are we ever going to even find out re all the issues, w/all the slamming-the-other-candidate ads going on ... what either candidate might reeeally do re situations that involve all the 'issues' about which the general population is concerned?"

Made me feel like one might get into the booth and still not know which candidate to choose, just having to say for one last time, "God help me!" and then voting ... however impressed at that second. :eek: :rolleyes:

So, whatever, don't skip voting b/c you're still not sure the day thereof what to do ... if still undecided then, go to the polls, anyway.

**********
Came back to add something, recalling someone mentioning the girls' response to their dad. Agreed. You can tell, often, if someone's got a decent relationship w/their parents, or is fearful, etc, by watching such reactions.

[Glenda Harvey]

While I'm not comfortable with the Jeremiah Wright issue, I'm equally uncomfortable with Gov. Palin pronouncing that the Iraq War was America carrying out God's will.

I'm not sure either side really wants to go down this road with the opposite candidate.

I heard the Statement and read what she said about the statement. I believe what she actually said was that we should pray that we are carrying out God's will.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

I heard the Statement and read what she said about the statement. I believe what she actually said was that we should pray that we are carrying out God's will.

You're right, Glenda. I actually was pleased with how she talked about how we "must pray" for "God's plan".

However, she certainly implied before saying that, "Our national leaders are sending [our soldiers] out on a task that is from God."

These are very scary, dangerous words to many. For myself, I don't believe that the US Government is the hand of God nor should we use rhetoric to make others believe so.

[Glenda Harvey]

I think the press is just becoming way too nit picky in this campaign.

[BobHunt]

because lets face it, Obama makes big words but basically he is an empty suit.
The economic situation broke this week and he still has not come out with a plan of how to deal with it, he has met with his "advisors" and said he will come out with a plan later. If he can avoid any difficult decesions he does.

[Charles W Christian]

because lets face it, Obama makes big words but basically he is an empty suit.
The economic situation broke this week and he still has not come out with a plan of how to deal with it, he has met with his "advisors" and said he will come out with a plan later. If he can avoid any difficult decesions he does.

Well, that would be a great point if it weren't for the fact that Sen. McCain's "empty suit" and the body that occupies it helped BREAK the economy that broke this week! :eek::o

Charles

[Wilson L. Deaton]

The economic situation broke this week and he still has not come out with a plan of how to deal with it, he has met with his "advisors" and said he will come out with a plan later.

Surely, Obama can't be expected to solve overnight, a crisis that Bush has spent nearly eight years creating.

Wilson

[Greg Gates]

as pronounced by Michelle then how come he kept taking his daughters to a church where the preacher swore during his sermons?

I think you are right on Jim. Good point. Nobody here wants to tell their kids to not repeat what the pastor said on Sunday.

[Bruce Carriker]

because lets face it, Obama makes big words but basically he is an empty suit.
The economic situation broke this week and he still has not come out with a plan of how to deal with it, he has met with his "advisors" and said he will come out with a plan later. If he can avoid any difficult decesions he does.

Yes, heaven forbid that he should give any thoughtful consideration to the problem. We've lived with eight years of policies devoid of much thoughtful consideration. I, for one, am glad he didn't have some knee-jerk, shoot-from-the-hip response, to which we've grown so accustomed.

[David Pettigrew]

When I was a boy, before my dad entered the ministry, we had a pastor who from time to time used a racial slur beginning with the word "n" in his sermons. My father went and talked to him. He didn't quit doing it. We left the church.

However, if we hadn't left the church, I don't think it would have meant I had a bad father.

I wondered how long it would be before Obama's fathering skills were questioned.

[Cindi Hammons]

...we had a pastor who from time to time used a racial slur beginning with the word "n" in his sermons.

Are you kidding me!?!?!? I am dumbfounded by this.:eek:

[David Pettigrew]

Are you kidding me!?!?!? I am dumbfounded by this.:eek:

Yeah. He used it stories, like "Once there was this 'n-word' boy walking to the creek to go fishing..."

[Tonya Sneed]

Yeah. He used it stories, like "Once there was this 'n-word' boy walking to the creek to go fishing..."

So was this a church in Texas?

I actually have met several racist pastors, though most cover it up better than that. . .but eventually it rears its ugly head.

At a very large and wealthy evangelical church here in Peoria, there was an effort by a few members of the congregation to reach out to poor African American families. Indeed, the community around them changed -- poor people are no longer just on the south side. Some have moved to central Peoria, where this church is located.

A former pastor, alarmed at all the blacks who were attending his church, stated, "This will NOT be a multi-cultural church." I could hardly believe it. Sure enough, if you go to their church now, you are hard-pressed to find a black face in the congregation.

And, guess what? They're moving -- to a more northern Peoria location. And, they aren't the only ones. "White" church after "white" church has abandoned the poor sections of Peoria to richer pastures elsewhere. It seems to me like this is exactly where the church should be, among the poor. . .not in suburbia.

But I suppose this is quite a digression from the point of the thread. . .

[David Pettigrew]

So was this a church in Texas?

Yes. It was the LaMarque Gulf Freeway Church of the Nazarene, in LaMarque, TX. It was a vibrant church in the 70s, when my family attended. It closed in 1993. Leaving it was incredibly difficult for my family. My parents had been married there, they were saved there, my brothers and me were dedicated there, and all our friends and family were there.

The good news is we found Alvin, TX Church of the Nazarene, and spent a year in a healthy church before my father accepted his first pastorate.

[BobHunt]

If he is such a wonderful father, why does he want to put in place a system that will teach K thru 12 kids how to avoid STDs? Yes, it is true, even teach these kind of things to children, the things as far as I am concerned should be taught in the privacy of the home when the child is ready for such info.

[Diane Likens]

Yes, it is true, even teach these kind of things to children, the things as far as I am concerned should be taught in the privacy of the home when the child is ready for such info.

Unfortunately not all children are being raised in a home where parents are paying enough attention to even KNOW when the kids are ready for "the talk".

And ... too many parent keep their heads in the sand, believing that when they tell their kids not to have sex, the kids WON'T have sex.

I'm of the opinion that this is one topic that kids SHOULD believe to be anything OTHER than taboo. Open dialogue goes much further with a kid who thinks his/her parents are stupid --- so if the dialogue is open in "grade K" and stays open through "grade 12", maybe we'll have fewer young people with STD's and unwanted pregnancies. It's not a guarantee, of course, but what we've done in the past HASN'T worked.

[Cindi Hammons]

...why does he want to put in place a system that will teach K thru 12 kids how to avoid STDs?

Would you prefer that these children be ignorant about STD's? The reality is that there is a large percentage of children who never even learn about the Birds and the Bees from their parents, much less how to stay safe from diseases that will destroy their lives...FOREVER! Would you have this information held from those children? There are even good parents who are too embarrassed to talk about such issues with their children and depend upon the school system to do the job.

Also, Obama's the Kindergarten program was NOT about STD's, but about how to stay safe from sexual preditors. I think this is a pretty good idea since there are so many people (including people kids should be able to trust) out there preying upon children, trying to gain their trust, and then sexually abusing them. I WANT my kids to learn about this stuff, I want them to know what to look for in a sexual preditor.

Also, the provision never passed, so this is much ado about nothing.

[Susan Unger]

Jim -

I've heard a LOT of Nazarene preachers - the overwhelming majority of them were 'right on'. But I'm not sure I'd go THAT far!

I can think of a Nazarene pastor who is a misogynist. He never used profane words but his whole treatment of women [esp women in his church] is profane.

[Mark Metcalfe]

And ... too many parent keep their heads in the sand, believing that when they tell their kids not to have sex, the kids WON'T have sex.

I'm of the opinion that this is one topic that kids SHOULD believe to be anything OTHER than taboo. Open dialogue goes much further with a kid who thinks his/her parents are stupid --- so if the dialogue is open in "grade K" and stays open through "grade 12", maybe we'll have fewer young people with STD's and unwanted pregnancies. It's not a guarantee, of course, but what we've done in the past HASN'T worked.

I am not sure how the first statement squares with the second statement. Parents can have an open dialog with their children and still raise them to be pure (i.e. "not to have sex"). Yes, you are correct that it is no guarantee because people make choices.

I hear the phrase "reproductive rights" bandied about a lot in the press, but never hear anything about "reproductive responsibility." It seems that many have given up on the idea that children in puberty cannot possibly resist having sex, even in the church. And because the church has failed, we may as well let the secular government do the "next best thing" by teaching birth control, oral gratification, and "error correction."

I do believe in open dialog but in the home, from the home. So, what about those whose home life isn't like mine? Well, kindergarten is too early to start dealing with sex beyond naming body parts - and how much emphasis could there be on that? Dealing with sexuality needs to begin just prior to the onset of puberty with clinical understanding of reproduction, and the cause and effects of sex in order to instill reproductive responsibility. For Christians, that responsibility is to instruct our children that sex is reserved for marriage and why it is important to be reserved for a husband and wife.

Mark

[Marsha Gupton]

I have not read every reply to this post;however, I find the title very disturbing. I am appalled that political discussion among christians and particularly nazarenes has sunk to this low level.

I think this thread delves into the private lives of the candidates in a way that is inappropriate.

[David Pettigrew]

If he is such a wonderful father, why does he want to put in place a system that will teach K thru 12 kids how to avoid STDs? Yes, it is true, even teach these kind of things to children, the things as far as I am concerned should be taught in the privacy of the home when the child is ready for such info.

I'm not sure how a system that teaches small children, who may be the victims of incest or other forms of sexual abuse, the difference between appropriate and inappropriate "touching" is bad. This is the legislation that Senator Obama supported. I know the McCain ad makes it sound as if we're showing kindergartners how to use condoms, but the fact is this program was about sexual abuse, not sexual education.

[David Parker]

I'm not sure how a system that teaches small children, who may be the victims of incest or other forms of sexual abuse, the difference between appropriate and inappropriate "touching" is bad. This is the legislation that Senator Obama supported. I know the McCain ad makes it sound as if we're showing kindergartners how to use condoms, but the fact is this program was about sexual abuse, not sexual education.

If you are happy to take Obama's claimed "intentions" of the bill in question, that is what he is now saying, but that is not what the clear wording of the bill says. I posted the bill on another thread and the wording is clear.

Text of Obama's sex education bill (http://www.naznet.com/community/showpost.php?p=220154&postcount=21)

Edited to add: Obama is on video (http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3386492) discussing this in front of Planned Parenthood in July of 2007.

"'Barack Obama supports teaching sex education to kindergarteners,'" said Obama mimicking Keyes' distinctive style of speech. "Which -- I didn’t know what to tell him (laughter)."

"But it’s the right thing to do," Obama continued, "to provide age-appropriate sex education, science-based sex education in schools."

No mention of "predator education" in his full contextual remarks.

Sex Ed for Kindergarteners 'Right Thing to Do,' Says Obama (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/07/sex-ed-for-kind.html)

[Mark Hammons]

as pronounced by Michelle then how come he kept taking his daughters to a church where the preacher swore during his sermons?

I so much want to comment on this but just don't know where to start.
First of all, I'm not sure of an instance when Obama's pastor "swore". If you are referring to the time when Rev. Wright said something to the effect of "God **** America", I don't think Rev. Wright was far off.
Yes!!! I do think that God will **** those who have espoused racial hatreds, especially those who claim to be christians. Even those who don't "hate", but treat those of different racial groups, or people of mixed racial groups, unfairly are equally "lying" if they claim to be a Christian. I know many,many like this in the church. A country that has allowed testing on a group of people without their permission or knowledge will be held accountable (the testing on Blacks at Tuskeegee in the 1940's).

And if I were to hear such a message, along with my daughters, I would take it as a opportunity to explain why such a message was delivered. A time to tell of the injustices, in the past and to a lesser degree today, dealt to a group of people simply because of the color of their skin.

The reality of this, to me anyway, sure Rev. Wright could have used different words, the words he did use (and my post may be deleted for including them) demonstrates the passion of many, white and black, to rid the country of the SIN of racism.

And as to Obama being a wonderful father, that is not for anyone here to question. If anyone wants to debate whether or not he is a good senator or if he will be a good president when he is elected, bring it on!

Mark

[Tonya Sneed]

IAnd if I were to hear such a message, along with my daughters, I would take it as a opportunity to explain why such a message was delivered. A time to tell of the injustices, in the past and to a lesser degree today, dealt to a group of people simply because of the color of their skin.

Mark


I would agree that it's to a lesser degree domestically, but not internationally. I think what we have done to Haiti, even in recent years, is rooted in racism. Africa continues to bleed because of the things the U.S. --and other countries -- are doing to these poor people. And, then there is the racism against the "darker skinned" Middle Eastern folks, and we all know where that has led us.

[Heidi Anderson]

I am perplexed at the insistence that sex ed NOT be taught to kids. They are sexualized at extremely young ages now - if the parents do not have discussions with them - someone will. Trust me....and the sexual abuse of child on child is greater than abuse of adult on child - therefore, we must educate even young kids to understand safety - call it what you want.

Here in Seattle - at Mosaic (our church coffeehouse) we sponsored a Birds, Bees & Kids open discussion. She suggests talking to kids appropriately at young ages - here is her website: http://www.birdsandbeesandkids.com/*

**This is not an endorsement - but informational website only!!

[Crystal Lutton]

Dealing with sexuality needs to begin just prior to the onset of puberty with clinical understanding of reproduction, and the cause and effects of sex in order to instill reproductive responsibility.on this idea . . . as a homeschooling mom who is raising children to be pure and to court (not the extreme creepy courting but the waiting until you're ready to have an adult relationship to pursue one and to find someone from among people you know and already respect, etc.) I believe this is far too late for this topic. If you wait until just before the onset of puberty many children are already sexualized if not sexually active in this day and age :(

Learning about sex and reproduction does not put children at risk for acting out sexually; sexualizing them does. Two very different issues. IMO though because it is the public school environment that often plays a huge role in sexualizing children it's both necessary that they get sexual education and part of the confusing message children receive. To be sexualized and educated about sex in an environment absent your parents is a tough place to be for a child.

As to the OP . . . I think that staying as long as he did and in the way that he did at Wright's church was something that Obama should be faulted for. I am not sure I'd fault him as a father--I always assumed like a pp that the children were in Sunday School or elsewhere during his sermons. I don't know.

But to the Palin stuff . . . I'm so sad that so many seem to be influenced without question by outrage from the liberal media. I hope no one ever scrutinizes all of my words ever spoken with such a magnifying glass aimed through such an assignment of negative intent as Sarah Palin has had to endure since accepting this position in the election. If you go looking for bad you will find it--even if at first it could be mistaken for good.

[Cindi Hammons]

I hope no one ever scrutinizes all of my words ever spoken with such a magnifying glass aimed through such an assignment of negative intent as Sarah Palin has had to endure since accepting this position in the election.

Then don't run for president....because that is exactly what happens. :)

[David Pettigrew]

If you are happy to take Obama's claimed "intentions" of the bill in question, that is what he is now saying, but that is not what the clear wording of the bill says. I posted the bill on another thread and the wording is clear.

Text of Obama's sex education bill (http://www.naznet.com/community/showpost.php?p=220154&postcount=21)

Edited to add: Obama is on video (http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3386492) discussing this in front of Planned Parenthood in July of 2007.

"'Barack Obama supports teaching sex education to kindergarteners,'" said Obama mimicking Keyes' distinctive style of speech. "Which -- I didn’t know what to tell him (laughter)."

"But it’s the right thing to do," Obama continued, "to provide age-appropriate sex education, science-based sex education in schools."

No mention of "predator education" in his full contextual remarks.

Sex Ed for Kindergarteners 'Right Thing to Do,' Says Obama (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/07/sex-ed-for-kind.html)

I'd have to say I tend to agree with Obama. If the evangelical church's traditional approach to sex education worked, why do we have an epidemic of sexual impurity among our people?

The approach when I was a child was to pretend there was no such thing as sex. As a teen, the approach shifted into scaring me into not having sex. I attended conferences in which the speakers showed disgusting pictures of victims of STDs, etc. The message was "don't have sex until you get married or THIS is what will happen."

It didn't work. If anybody should have been well equipped to wait until marriage, it should have been me. Unfortunately, I failed.

How foolish we are. We expect kids and teens to be mature and responsible enough to make decisions which adults (and, sadly, many ministers) are failing to make. We throw our kids to the wolves of popular culture with no instructions except "keep your underwear on", denying them any information or protection.

SO, we better be teaching our kids two things:

1) True love serves.
2) A healthy, covenant understanding of sexuality from the time they are old enough to ask questions about it.

If the public school can help me with the clinical, biological aspect of this, more power to them.

I'm sure with this post my chances at one of those General Superintendent openings are about as likely as a Dawson McAlister comeback.

[Bruce Carriker]

As the father of two daughters, I simply find it incredible that anyone can seriously believe that Obama's vote on the legislation in question here was actually a vote to teach sex education to kindergartners. That anyone would even suggest such a thing speaks much more to their willingness to lie, twist, distort, and play the spin/linguistics/semantics game than it does to Obama's fitness as a father.

[Bruce Carriker]

Yes. It was the LaMarque Gulf Freeway Church of the Nazarene, in LaMarque, TX. It was a vibrant church in the 70s, when my family attended. It closed in 1993. Leaving it was incredibly difficult for my family. My parents had been married there, they were saved there, my brothers and me were dedicated there, and all our friends and family were there.

The good news is we found Alvin, TX Church of the Nazarene, and spent a year in a healthy church before my father accepted his first pastorate.

I have a friend a few years older than me who pastored a church in Texas in the late 1970's, early 1980's. As board elections were nearing, he suggested than an African-American gentleman who had been worshiping there for some time be considered for nomination. According to my friend, the board secretary was aghast, and came to him privately: "Preacher, we don't mind them worshiping here, but we can't have no n----ers on the church board."

My friend now pastors a thousand miles north of Texas.

[Timothy Brooks]

I am having a good time watching conservatives this election season (for what it is worth, I am an undecided moderate). I remember five years ago Rush Limbaugh would constantly lambaste John McCain (I believe that Limbaugh claimed that McCain was the Senator representing the media...not Arizona, right?). Now, conservatives are awkwardly trying to embrace him. But they can't, and now they are moving toward these grenade bomb attacks that they used to accuse liberals of.

This is why politics stink. No one has values, they just need to win at any cost.

Still undecided, but man conservative rhetoric like this really makes me lean to Obama.

[Bruce Carriker]

...and now they are moving toward these grenade bomb attacks that they used to accuse liberals of.

Moving towards? Did you really say "moving towards"? Did you never hear Rush Limbaugh any time during the entire Clinton Administration?

If the Democrats have ever been guilty of "grenade bomb attacks", then by comparison, Rush Limbaugh has been playing with a nuclear arsenal for at least twenty years. (He was also no fan of Bush I...at least initially.)

[David Parker]

I'd have to say I tend to agree with Obama...

If we want to discuss the pro/cons of public school sex education, that is fine, but we were discussing whether McCain's ad was a "lie" and whether Obama's defense of that bill was accurate.

It wasn't. The clear language of the bill specified sex education in: "K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV.”

McCain didn't "lie" and his ad wasn't "shameful". Obama's attempt to spin this into "sexual predator" intentions is just not honest.

Whether or not kindergarten kids are taught any sex education is a worthy topic of discussion, and as a dad of 5, I certainly have some thoughts.

But as to the bill and the ad, the facts are in the public record.

For political reasons, Obama has decided that he can't/won't defend such sex education and he has decided to obfuscate his earlier position by claiming that it was just about predator education, and the bill's actual words demonstrate otherwise.

[Susan Unger]

I have a friend a few years older than me who pastored a church in Texas in the late 1970's, early 1980's. As board elections were nearing, he suggested than an African-American gentleman who had been worshiping there for some time be considered for nomination. According to my friend, the board secretary was aghast, and came to him privately: "Preacher, we don't mind them worshiping here, but we can't have no n----ers on the church board."

My friend now pastors a thousand miles north of Texas.

Not surprised...but still supremely disgusted!

[Susan Unger]

I'm sure with this post my chances at one of those General Superintendent openings are about as likely as a Dawson McAlister comeback.

Funny, but who is this guy?

[David Pettigrew]

Funny, but who is this guy?

Dawson McAlister was a popular speaker at youth events like the one I referenced in the late 80s and early 90s. He gave contemporary recording artist Al Denson his "big break" by using him in his conferences. Both have faded from pop evangelical glory.