Question for the men - What are some of your deepest needs?

[Cynthia Prentice]

I'm speaking in our Sunday am service (for the next 4 weeks) on the topic of how a wife can demonstrate love for her husband by meeting his deepest needs. I'd like your input...what are some of your deepest needs and how can your wife demonstrate her love for you in these areas.

Cynthia

*I'm heading out the door and won't have computer access until Saturday night.

[David Parker]

I'd say the need for respect is deeply important for most men. If I feel my wife respects me, not much else matters.

[Cynthia Prentice]

I'd say the need for respect is deeply important for most men. If I feel my wife respects me, not much else matters.

Thanks for the response David...for a minute there I thought you might say "ironing." :smilies0373:

[Mike Wooldridge]

Cynthia, as a widowed man my greatest need is for companionship. I am intensely lonely. Whether it's for watching TV, having a meal together or just talking, that's my greatest need.

[Shea Zellweger]

I think this goes hand-in-hand with respect, but I've read several books which suggest the #1 thing a wife can do for her husband is to keep his confidence. This would include not joining in with the other women for a round of "husband bashing," but rather praising and being proud of your husband in all situations. One researcher said some husbands feel a wife who speaks poorly about them, or who shares intimate details of their love life, is violating their marriage as much as she would be by having an affair.

It's unspoken so far, but something I've found to be true with a lot of men I speak with is that they consider sex to be an indication of all around marital happiness. We have been taught that our wives are going to be the most sexually interested when they are satisfied with the rest of their lives, and feel like their husbands are contributing to that overall happiness. I don't know if that was just a diabolical plan by some women who wanted to see their husbands do the dishes more often (okay, that's a little TIC...) but most husbands I've talked with have been taught something similar, and so they assume that a lull in the sex life is an indication of a deeper issue in the marriage.

So, keep his confidence, don't talk down about him, and keep the marriage bed warm. There's 3 of your 4 weeks right there- I agree very much with Mike's statement about companionship as well.

[George Wallace]

I agree with David. Respect is key, from the wife for the husband. As a husband I feel I should Love her unconditionally, like Christ Loved the Church. Ephesians Rocks!

Of course I also desire that she join me on the Lord's Day for Corporate Worship focusing solely on the exalted Worship of the Triune God; reverencing a Righteous, Awesome and Holy God, bowing our hearts together before Him in Praise, Prayer and the hearing of his Holy Word which I believe to be Expository Preaching from an Ordain man of God.

[Paul DeBaufer]

I have been thinking a lot lately about just what it is I need from my wife. As we have only been married 9 months I think we are both working through this (actually been a source of dissension between us at times). I think the major need for me is clear communication. My wife will be telling me something and I won't get it. She will tell me by telling me something about how she is feeling without ever telling me the root cause or what she needs me to do. Then it becomes my fault for not hearing her. While I do need to become more in tune with her methods of communication, sometimes the disconnect in my mind is so great that when I eventually find out just what it is she has been trying to say I just don't get it. If she could just be a bit more direct in communicating instead of being vague and abstract I think many of our issues of learning to live together and become one flesh would be greatly facilitated.

Not that I don't have my idiosyncrasies which are impeding that process, I do. Learning her communication needs is probably a big one too.

[Kevin Rector]

This is all gross generalization....... but......

Many times women want to "change" their man. Knock off the rough edges. Soften him up. Make him not so... much of a man. This is bad. Let the man be a man. Let him be interested in man stuff. Let him be aggressive and competitive. Give him the space to do the stuff that men like to do. Don't expect him to be overly interested in a domesticated, safe, nice, and clean life. Let the man be a man. Just by being around you as a woman, some of the roughest edges will get softened up naturally.

Shea got it right, but in addition to not talking down about your husband, don't talk down to your husband, that's a sign of disrespect and some others have already signaled how important it is for a man to be respected. NEVER EVER talk bad about your husband to other people even if you are "just joking". Well, I suppose you could talk bad about your husband if your goal is to kill any hope of having any romance in your relationship. A man who feels disrespected will NOT be romantic towards you, he'll just go watch TV.

Oh, and WE DO NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT OUR FEELINGS.

[Shea Zellweger]

This is all gross generalization....... but......

Many times women want to "change" their man. Knock off the rough edges. Soften him up. Make him not so... much of a man. This is bad. Let the man be a man. Let him be interested in man stuff. Let him be aggressive and competitive. Give him the space to do the stuff that men like to do. Don't expect him to be overly interested in a domesticated, safe, nice, and clean life. Let the man be a man. Just by being around you as a woman, some of the roughest edges will get softened up naturally.

I skim-read too many books to be certain, but I believe there was a book entitled "Wild at Heart" which talks about this. I put it this way- women have contradictory expectations of us. On the one hand (and yes, this is a gross generalization, as Kevin said) she wants the prince charming who slays the dragon, storms the tower, and sweeps her off her feet, then carries her back to his castle. On the other hand, she wants to be a strong, independent woman, whose husband is, for lack of a better word, "tame," a romantic in the mushiest sense of the word, and effectively neutered by good manners and delicate behavior. I'm sorry, but you can't have both. We will show you our tender side, but please, let us keep our crazy, testosterone-fueled, tough exterior- we need it!



Oh, and WE DO NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT OUR FEELINGS.

hehe... well, personally I am fine talking about my feelings, but only when I have feelings that need to be talked about. I'm also fine telling you what I'm thinking about, but only if I'm thinking about something that's worth discussing.

[Ryan Scott]

I'd suggest not giving a list of things, but instead recommend each couple have a conversation about this topic themselves. There are going to be a lot of differences and an actual conversation can help with specifics and improves communication.

As a man I really don't want to hear all the things other men might want, because I'm prone to wonder why men want these things or if there's something wrong with me if I don't. Lists of things like this have caused me a lot of stress and worry, most of which was entirely unnecessary.

Personally, I feel these sorts of generalizations paint a picture of what a man "should be" without validating his individuality. Perhaps giving a list or some examples is taking away the hard work of communication that is vitally necessary in a relationship?

[Katelynn Scott]

I love my husband! (I just wanted to tell the whole world...)

[Gene Tatsch]

Somehow Mark Gungor's video on "brains" is related ... that somehow in the attempted communication, the fact that males & females apparently perceive VERY different things in the same communication - verbal & non-verbal. Being able to complete the other's statement may or may not indicate accurate understanding of the meaning that initiated the statement.
It takes time, intent to understand, patience to try again (and again, and again).
Which somehow links to companionship.

[Susan Unger]

I'd suggest not giving a list of things, but instead recommend each couple have a conversation about this topic themselves. There are going to be a lot of differences and an actual conversation can help with specifics and improves communication.

As a man I really don't want to hear all the things other men might want, because I'm prone to wonder why men want these things or if there's something wrong with me if I don't. Lists of things like this have caused me a lot of stress and worry, most of which was entirely unnecessary.

Personally, I feel these sorts of generalizations paint a picture of what a man "should be" without validating his individuality. Perhaps giving a list or some examples is taking away the hard work of communication that is vitally necessary in a relationship?I agree with your point. I find this to be the case with what women's needs are without taking into consideration one's individuality and past experiences. Ex. I have heard that women need Love primarily more than Respect. Yet, with my background [lot of verbal abuse] I shudder at that statement. There are other examples, but this is the one that bugs me the most.

[Hans Deventer]

Iwhat are some of your deepest needs and how can your wife demonstrate her love for you in these areas.

My deepest need would definitely be to be loved. That's a no brainer to me. Second question would then be, how to best express that love? Gary Chapman's "The Five Languages of Love" have helped us a lot in that area, especially in avoiding showing love in a way that doesn't communicate, but rather in a way that does, and understanding that this could have nothing to do with how you experience love yourself.

We both make mistakes. We've learned to say to each other: "I didn't expect a perfect spouse. I do need one who loves me."

[Jim Franklin]

Some indication that she loves me and cares that I love her. She claims to have a Christian experience but avoids having a devotional life together.

[Cynthia Prentice]

I just wanted to send out a big thank you for your input! I also wanted to send out a thanks to those of you who responded through private message. I've shared your messages with Paul and we greately appreciate you taking the time to ponder the question.

Blessings to you all,

Cynthia

[Hans Deventer]

I read a lot about respect. Now I may either be ignorant or just plain blessed, but I'm not clear about how one could be loved without being respected. Am I missing something here?

[Cynthia Prentice]

I read a lot about respect. Now I may either be ignorant or just plain blessed, but I'm not clear about how one could be loved without being respected. Am I missing something here?

I am sure you are very blessed with Hannie! It might be easier for me to give examples of disrespect...sarcasm...belittling...caustic criticism etc. Does that help?

[Susan Unger]

I am sure you are very blessed with Hannie! It might be easier for me to give examples of disrespect...sarcasm...belittling...caustic criticism etc. Does that help?

But how is that love [for either gender]?

[Shea Zellweger]

But how is that love [for either gender]?

I come from a pretty sarcastic family, that's just the way we interact. My wife does not. For us, this was not a very big deal, as she knew that's the way I was before we even started dating, and for some strange reason actually likes my sense of humor. However, I can understand how others would view that as disrespectful. There are other families that share everything, including any disagreements they might be having with others. When one spouse carries that behavior into a marriage, the other spouse may feel their trust has been betrayed. There are any number of things you can bring from your family of origin that might seem normal to you but are perceived as disrespect by your spouse. That doesn't make you (and by "you" I mean "a person", not Susan) unloving, it just means that there needs to be some work done in the communication front, as there does in most marriages.

[Ray Lepkowicz]

Patience comes to mind, I am very thankful that my wife is patient with me, don't think we would have lasted 40+ years without it. I know that in our early years of marriage I was very ruff around the edges, and full of testestrone, so to speak. Thank God my wife had patience.

God bless
Ray

[Cynthia Prentice]

Patience comes to mind, I am very thankful that my wife is patient with me, don't think we would have lasted 40+ years without it. I know that in our early years of marriage I was very ruff around the edges, and full of testestrone, so to speak. Thank God my wife had patience.

God bless
Ray

Thank you for mentioning patience. I don't think it is something I have specifically mentioned and yet it is so important in developing any relationship...and especially loving your closest "neighbor"...your spouse.

Cynthia

[Cynthia Prentice]

One service down and three to go. Instead of bringing a traditional message I interviewed Paul about his deepest needs and how I as his wife can demonstrate my love to him. The men seemed genuinely appreciative of what was shared and the women were very receptive. The feedback was overwhelmingly positive. Several couples shared with us that after getting home they spent hours talking and the men were able to share things that they had never talked about before. Paul and I have always endeavored to be transparent and vulnerable with our people (lead by example) and it is times like this that make it all worthwhile.

Next week I will be taking on the challenge of the infamous "submission" passages. Again...men I would greatly appreciate your input.

Thanks again,

Cynthia

*A note of explanation as to why I am asking for input from the men...not the women. Paul has spent 6 weeks speaking to the men about loving their wives. I am now speaking to the women about demonstrating their love to their husband by meeting his deepest needs. We as women can have insight and/or theories into a man's deepest needs...but to get input from men about their own needs is going to the source. Every man is different and there is not a universal list (I hate universal lists/statements) that applies to all...but there is a lot of common ground and I find it very valuable. Thanks again!

[Todd Erickson]

Somebody can love you dearly without respecting you very much at all, or at least without showing respect. Remember, love is in the heart of the person showing the love... it doesn't necessarily guarantee that that love will be shown in a way which is significant to the receptor. In the same way, somebody can be completely disrespectful of somebody else, and still feel that they love them completely.

[Michael Grimshaw]

I want to join Hans in the issue of speaking your mates language. Chapman's Love Languages have greatly improved good and great marriages, and rescued many that were almost over. Just today I spent time with a lady at one company I serve as chaplain understand that while they may love each other, they need to express that in the language that the mate understand. I f you want your husband to know that you love him----speak his language---even if you don't really understand it. And, the same goes for the men. I certainly do not understand how picking up the 3 bags of garbage by the door that I normally step over and do not even remember what was there, is an expression of love to my wife of 43 years whose language is DEEDS. Doesn't make sense to me at all----but it does to her!!!

[Susan Unger]

Somebody can love you dearly without respecting you very much at all, or at least without showing respect. Remember, love is in the heart of the person showing the love... it doesn't necessarily guarantee that that love will be shown in a way which is significant to the receptor. In the same way, somebody can be completely disrespectful of somebody else, and still feel that they love them completely.

With my background, I can't buy that. That is not love. I think I better end now because this is bringing up unhealed pain from that so called "love".

[Hans Deventer]

Somebody can love you dearly without respecting you very much at all, or at least without showing respect. Remember, love is in the heart of the person showing the love... it doesn't necessarily guarantee that that love will be shown in a way which is significant to the receptor. In the same way, somebody can be completely disrespectful of somebody else, and still feel that they love them completely.

We may need to define love. Can we take Tom Oord's definition? Love = acting intentionally, in sympathetic/empathetic response to God and others, to promote overall well-being.

[Hans Deventer]

Next week I will be taking on the challenge of the infamous "submission" passages. Again...men I would greatly appreciate your input.

Cynthia, I don't think it is hard for a woman to submit to a man who loves her like Christ loves the church, giving His very life for her. In practice, I don't think we ever truly had a situation in which Hannie had to submit. There have been situations in which she let me decide. But that is mostly when we (or she) didn't really know what to do and a decision had to be made anyway. It's rare. I simply don't make major decisions she doesn't agree with, nor would she make any I would not agree with. The one you'd give your life for is your #1 priority. If I keep that in mind, the "submission" passages aren't a problem really. But everything depends on learning to speak the language of love your partner understands.

[Todd Erickson]

As Americans, I think that the love we hold in relationships may be very different, quite often, than Agape, which is intentional and unconditional.

However, as a man in Christ, even if the love being shown to me is not intentional and unconditional, I will still accept it intentionally and unconditionally, because I intentionally and unconditionally love that person.

I have to know that I may be on a different place in my walk than she is, and try to love her as she is, and into where she should be, rather than holding that against her. We all have our issues.

...

We all grew up in various environments, and were shaped by both the presence and absence of our parents. We may not even be aware of how the way we were raised directly conflicts with our personalities and desires.

I may need love and respect in certain ways, but may never have encountered that sort of love or respect in any regular or dependable manner, and as a result, may not know how to ask for it or communicate it in any way that my spouse can understand or comprehend. At that point, it's not either of our faults that it doesn't happen...but without some sort of outside intervention by somebody who can help develop that understanding, it's not necessarily going to change.

And getting men to a point where they're willing to explore those weaknesses is unlikely to happen outside of a close, dependable relationship with other Godly men.

[Cynthia Prentice]

As Americans, I think that the love we hold in relationships may be very different, quite often, than Agape, which is intentional and unconditional.

However, as a man in Christ, even if the love being shown to me is not intentional and unconditional, I will still accept it intentionally and unconditionally, because I intentionally and unconditionally love that person.

I have to know that I may be on a different place in my walk than she is, and try to love her as she is, and into where she should be, rather than holding that against her. We all have our issues.

...

We all grew up in various environments, and were shaped by both the presence and absence of our parents. We may not even be aware of how the way we were raised directly conflicts with our personalities and desires.

I may need love and respect in certain ways, but may never have encountered that sort of love or respect in any regular or dependable manner, and as a result, may not know how to ask for it or communicate it in any way that my spouse can understand or comprehend. At that point, it's not either of our faults that it doesn't happen...but without some sort of outside intervention by somebody who can help develop that understanding, it's not necessarily going to change.

And getting men to a point where they're willing to explore those weaknesses is unlikely to happen outside of a close, dependable relationship with other Godly men.

That has been my goal as well as Paul's...he of course talking with the men and me with the women. I think what you are saying is that love should be action...it should be loving action but the problem is that many times it is not...and sometimes people don't have an awareness of how hurtful they are being to the ones they love. Those people can benefit with outside intervention. The people struggling in this area are truly the ones we want to help.

[Cynthia Prentice]

Cynthia, I don't think it is hard for a woman to submit to a man who loves her like Christ loves the church, giving His very life for her. In practice, I don't think we ever truly had a situation in which Hannie had to submit. There have been situations in which she let me decide. But that is mostly when we (or she) didn't really know what to do and a decision had to be made anyway. It's rare. I simply don't make major decisions she doesn't agree with, nor would she make any I would not agree with. The one you'd give your life for is your #1 priority. If I keep that in mind, the "submission" passages aren't a problem really. But everything depends on learning to speak the language of love your partner understands.

You have communicated what I believe to be the heart of these passages. What a beautiful thing it is when a man loves his wife like Christ loves the church...and the language of love is spoken in the marriage.

[Hans Deventer]

What a beautiful thing it is when a man loves his wife like Christ loves the church...and the language of love is spoken in the marriage.

Cynthia, I don't pretend to have reached His level. And with shame I have to admit that it took Hannie's aneurysm for me to really "get it". And that was after 24½ years of marriage.........
I guess the good part of the story is that change is always possible, even after so many years!

[Cynthia Prentice]

Cynthia, I don't pretend to have reached His level. And with shame I have to admit that it took Hannie's aneurysm for me to really "get it". And that was after 23½ years of marriage.........
I guess the good part of the story is that change is always possible, even after so many years!

...and that is the hope we have to offer the world...change is always possible!

[Cynthia Prentice]

Next week I will be taking on the challenge of the infamous "submission" passages. *Men I would greatly appreciate your input. (thanks to Hans for his comments)

Submission in marriage: What it is – What it is not
Again…the congregation is mixed but I will primarily be addressing the women (Paul has completed his 6 week series - speaking to the men about loving their wives like Christ loved the church)

From a private message I received today - “My personal beliefs are that though there are many differences in the genders; a true loving marriage can only be achieved when the differences are viewed as complementary instead of divisive. Think of it like a balance scale when one side you have sugar and the other side is rhubarb. The weights are equal and when married together you get a great pie.”

I like the illustration of the balance scale and will be bringing a large red balance and using it as a visual aid. (I will be using Hans' statement in post #28 on the husband's side of the balance)


Some things I am mulling over…

What God Has Joined – Christianity Today
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/october/20.26.html?start=1 (http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/october/20.26.html?start=1)

Submission in Marriage – Mark Gungor (the goofy talk show format drives me crazy but his comments are thought provoking)
http://www.lovemarriageandstinkingthinking.com/ (http://www.lovemarriageandstinkingthinking.com/)

CRI - 1 Peter 2:18-3:12 (The Relationship of Wives and Husbands - 1 Peter 3:1-7)
http://www.crivoice.org/biblestudy/bb1pet3.html (http://www.crivoice.org/biblestudy/bb1pet3.html)


Blessings to you all,

Cynthia


*A note of explanation as to why I am asking for input from the men...not the women. Paul has spent 6 weeks speaking to the men about loving their wives. I am now speaking to the women about demonstrating their love to their husband by meeting his deepest needs. We as women can have insight and/or theories into a man's deepest needs...but to get input from men about their own needs is going to the source. Every man is different and there is not a universal list (I hate universal lists/statements) that applies to all...but there is a lot of common ground and I find it a very valuable resource. Thanks again!

[Todd Erickson]

There's an excellent chapter on this in Rob Bell's "Sex God", which talks about his experience as a pastor with men coming into his office talking about how their wives won't submit to them, and him asking them whether they've begun to sacrifice for their wives as Jesus did for the church. It's interesting stuff.

But if you use it, don't mention it's from Rob Bell, or you might get labeled a heretic.

[Cynthia Prentice]

There's an excellent chapter on this in Rob Bell's "Sex God", which talks about his experience as a pastor with men coming into his office talking about how their wives won't submit to them, and him asking them whether they've begun to sacrifice for their wives as Jesus did for the church. It's interesting stuff.

But if you use it, don't mention it's from Rob Bell, or you might get labeled a heretic.

I'll pull it off the shelf and revisit that chapter. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

[Jon Bemis]

Sorry about coming so late to this conversation. Some have mentioned how important respect is to a husband, and at least one mentioned that that love is equally important. I think the two are intricately related and one needs the other to be genuine. My overly general observation is that most men do not feel loved unless they first feel respected, just as most women don't feel respected unless they first feel loved. A man named Emerson Eggerichs does as good a job at explaining this as I have come across in his book "Love and Respect."

In regards to the submission thing - The whole Ephesians passage seems to me to be predicated on the command in verse 21 that we are to "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ." When this is the basis for everything else, loving and submitting is seen in a different light. One other observation - Maybe the reason Paul tells men to love their wives so often and tells women to submit to their husbands so often is that he recognized that each gender has an inherent weakness when it comes to relating to the opposite sex.

[Wes Smith]

Okay. This is going to be as clumsy as all get out, but I think the deepest need of a man regarding his wife is to have that "something" that should not be had with anyone else in the whole world. The roots of such a thing is trust and the product is what Sheldon Van Aucken calls the "shining barrier." What we want is a polar physical and gender dispositional opposite that, like magnets, cannot not be attracted. Such an attraction is the true essence of life and harkens back to the time of true innocence and true discovery. Marriage is not a relationship, it is the relationship. Most men long to be the hero and long to participate in all aspects of life with their chosen heroine (who is also a hero!). The "catch" seems somehow to be related to making marriage into some or one aspect of life when it is the ultimate life experience; two people trusting each other so much that they achieve the impossible...oneness. This relationship is ethereal in that one description is that it is quite similar to the relationship of Christ with the church. The marriage relationship is on the other hand very earthy and earthly in that every spiritual, intellectual and physical capacity for pleasure has an other capacity for the opposite or for some lesser degree of pleasure. Some things, manifestations, change over the years as they must, but the deepest needs of a man, I believe, revolve around the core issues of spiritual, mental and physical intimacy that cannot be experienced with any other person in the world.

Friend,

Wes

[Cynthia Prentice]

Sorry about coming so late to this conversation. Some have mentioned how important respect is to a husband, and at least one mentioned that that love is equally important. I think the two are intricately related and one needs the other to be genuine. My overly general observation is that most men do not feel loved unless they first feel respected, just as most women don't feel respected unless they first feel loved. A man named Emerson Eggerichs does as good a job at explaining this as I have come across in his book "Love and Respect."

In regards to the submission thing - The whole Ephesians passage seems to me to be predicated on the command in verse 21 that we are to "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ." When this is the basis for everything else, loving and submitting is seen in a different light. One other observation - Maybe the reason Paul tells men to love their wives so often and tells women to submit to their husbands so often is that he recognized that each gender has an inherent weakness when it comes to relating to the opposite sex.

Thanks for entering the convesation Jon. It is great to have you on board. I have always appreciated your posts and have found them to be insightful and helpful.

Thanks for your input. I agree when it comes to Eggerich. He has great insight into the dynamic of Love and Respect and both Paul and I are using his C.O.U.P.L.E. and C.H.A.I.R.S. as the overall/general framework for our messages. (I spoke on C. and R. before Christmas). We will be adding in an additional one or two weeks dealing with the subjects of unresponsive spouces and also the topic of abuse. If I had one wish it would have been for Eggerich to include more about responses to abusive situations but I do not think that was the primary purpose of his book.

I think it is very possible that there is a inherent gender connection when it comes to relating to the opposite sex. Thanks again for your input.

Cynthia

[Cynthia Prentice]

Okay. This is going to be as clumsy as all get out, but I think the deepest need of a man regarding his wife is to have that "something" that should not be had with anyone else in the whole world. The roots of such a thing is trust and the product is what Sheldon Van Aucken calls the "shining barrier." What we want is a polar physical and gender dispositional opposite that, like magnets, cannot not be attracted. Such an attraction is the true essence of life and harkens back to the time of true innocence and true discovery. Marriage is not a relationship, it is the relationship. Most men long to be the hero and long to participate in all aspects of life with their chosen heroine (who is also a hero!). The "catch" seems somehow to be related to making marriage into some or one aspect of life when it is the ultimate life experience; two people trusting each other so much that they achieve the impossible...oneness. This relationship is ethereal in that one description is that it is quite similar to the relationship of Christ with the church. The marriage relationship is on the other hand very earthy and earthly in that every spiritual, intellectual and physical capacity for pleasure has an other capacity for the opposite or for some lesser degree of pleasure. Some things, manifestations, change over the years as they must, but the deepest needs of a man, I believe, revolve around the core issues of spiritual, mental and physical intimacy that cannot be experienced with any other person in the world.

Friend,

Wes


Hey Wes,

I'm rushing to get ready for discipleship group at my house tonight and I wish I had more time to digest all you have said...but for starters I especially like your phrase, "Marriage is not a relationship, it is the relationship." The oneness and intimacy you describe remind us of why it is worth all the hard work. Your hero/heroine echoes John Eldredge in Wild at Heart...a book I believe women would find beneficial to read. Thanks again for your input.

Cynthia

[Timothy Parker]

Personally, my deepest needs from my wife have really to do with intimacy -- and I'm not thinking of sex (or not sex alone) here, but of that which my wife and I truly share in ways that aren't shared with anyone else. It sometimes looks/feels like loyalty, sometimes like respect, is thoroughly saturated with love.... but at it's most concrete and specific, it is the lovely, miraculous, and empowering sense of utter communion, of being one.

So I'm obviously not the typical "don't want to talk about my feelings" guy :o, but there is something about the complementarity (that is not reducible to gender) of two people that invests their union with real energy. It is friendship but it is distinctly more than that as well.

Also, I'll admit to having little patience with the submission model insofar as it's attributable to the dominance of mere patriarchy, but submission to one another is surely at the heart of what I'm trying to articulate.

Looking forward to reading about how the series turns out.

peace and all good...
Timothy

[Cynthia Prentice]

Well...two down...two to go. A big thanks to the men for your input. We have many women in our church who have been victims of abuse so I decided to do the "submission/respect" message in two parts...what it is and what it is not. I tackled what it is not this past Sunday. After the submission/respect what it is message, I will move on to sexuality and being a Song of Songs wife. Again men...thanks for your input on how a woman can demonstrate love to her husband by meeting his deepest needs.

Blessings,

Cynthia


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I'll give you a full life in the emptiest of places... You'll use the old rubble of past lives to build anew, rebuild the foundations from out of your past. You'll be known as those who can fix anything, restore old ruins, rebuild and renovate, make the community livable again. Isaiah 58:11-12 (THE MESSAGE)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7T0ZNObZ2A

[Cynthia Prentice]

Well...I finished up my sermon series this past Sunday. This last one was probably the most challenging as the topic was sex...demonstrating love to your husband and embracing his desire for sex. The challenge for me was simply how deep to delve into the topic. I decided to dive in with both feet and the response has been incredible. I spoke for 30 minutes to the entire congregation and then dismissed the men and children. I spoke to the women and opened up the floor for questions/comments. I didn't know if they would talk...but they did...they asked lots of questions and wanted me to share.

Finally at 1:40pm we had to leave the sanctuary because it was time for the Egyptian church to have their service. Since Sunday I have had multiple people contact me and I have been overwhelmed by the positive response. During the all ladies part of the service, one woman who is in her upper 70's spoke up and shared how much she appreciated everything that had been shared. She started crying and said that she wished something like this had been available 40 years ago...and that we should have this message once a year for all the new people.

God is good and the women of East Park have a new slogan..."We are STRONG...we are UNBOUND...and we are a GIFT to our husbands!

Glad it is all wrapped up and very HAPPY to hand the pulpit back to my husband!

Cynthia

[Bob Hunter]

Cynthia,

Wow the courage to address sex from the pulpit. Amazing! In recent years I have had first hand exposure to Dr. Ted Roberts and his ministry to men dealing with sexual addictions. Needless to say, I have learned a lot. Probably half the men in your congregation are dealing with porn issues...sadly. Their wives, if they know about it, struggle with feelings of betrayal and low self esteem.

Anyway, Dr. Roberts wrote a wonderful book for couples titled: Sexy Christians: The purpose, power and passion of Biblical intimacy. You can find it on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Sexy-Christians-Purpose-Biblical-Intimacy/dp/0801013461/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277934015&sr=8-1

Once again, I admire your courage to address these issues. Most Churches enable their members to suffer in silence when it comes to sex. Maybe we're turning a corner? Certainly response from your sermon is reason to hope.

Keep up the good work!

Bob Hunter

[Tami Martin]

I applaud you as well Cynthia! While I would not have benefitted (hubby and I don't fit the stereotypes), I find it encouraging that these sorts of sermons are being preached. Maybe someday we will see REAL sexual wholeness in our churches!

[Cynthia Prentice]

Cynthia,

Wow the courage to address sex from the pulpit. Amazing! In recent years I have had first hand exposure to Dr. Ted Roberts and his ministry to men dealing with sexual addictions. Needless to say, I have learned a lot. Probably half the men in your congregation are dealing with porn issues...sadly. Their wives, if they know about it, struggle with feelings of betrayal and low self esteem.

Anyway, Dr. Roberts wrote a wonderful book for couples titled: Sexy Christians: The purpose, power and passion of Biblical intimacy. You can find it on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Sexy-Christians-Purpose-Biblical-Intimacy/dp/0801013461/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277934015&sr=8-1

Once again, I admire your courage to address these issues. Most Churches enable their members to suffer in silence when it comes to sex. Maybe we're turning a corner? Certainly response from your sermon is reason to hope.

Keep up the good work!

Bob Hunter

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the book info. I was able to read appendix 2 (men to men) online and it could have come straight out of what I shared on Sunday. It looks like it will be a great resource.

You are right when it comes to the porn issue. We have some incredible guys in our church who are in the process of breaking free of their pornography addiction. In 1992 I had an extended family member enter recovery for an addiction to porn, fantasy and masturbation that had been entrenched in his life for over 50 years. I was blessed to walk through recovery with him attending family group meetings for 2 years and then I was invited to participate in the closed process group sessions that I attended for another 2 years. . This was a clinical hospital setting and was inclusive of multiple addictions...not just sexual but drug, alcohol...etc. It was an invaluable experience that has greatly impacted our ministry. Paul and I work together when counseling men with pornography addictions and I also meet with their wives seperately. There is nothing better than seeing people find hope and freedom. (edited to add - although we do a lot of initial counseling our goal is to get the person into a group recovery program as recovery is most effective when in this setting)

I have also encountered younger (and older) women who as a result of the sexual activity in their lives before marriage are dealing with a lot of guilt associated with sex in their marriage...the old, ''temptation will do everything to get you into bed before you are married and keep you out of it after you are married" kind of challenge. As I have led women through Song of Songs using the Hebrew text...walking into the original language and the passionate/explicit imagery that is lost in our English translations I have seen them find such freedom.

Although the American church may have difficulty talking about the topic...the Biblical text doesn't...and we have people in our pews who are deeply hurting. I like Tami's phrase about the hope of true sexual wholeness for our people. Thanks again for the heads up regarding the book.

Blessings to you Bob,

Cynthia

[Billy Cox]

How about a universal remote control that is truly 'universal'? That is a need even if not a deep one.

[Shea Zellweger]

How about a universal remote control that is truly 'universal'? That is a need even if not a deep one.

Saw that Movie (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0389860/) too.

[Ian Gentles]

This is a hard one and seems most relating to their wifes, yes their love respect, is very important. But again, men are funny creatures, they want adventure, to do great deeds, why so many go into military. I beleive men need recognition for certain acts/deeds, to be of some importance, to be appreciated.