Insane Clown Posse

[Jeremy D. Scott]

This may be old news to some, but it was new to me.

The rap group Insane Clown Posse has long been known for their extremely crude, violent, and otherwise controversial "music." I'm not a rap fan whatsoever, so I'm not too well-versed on their history, but I read up on them today.

Long story short, for discussion:
Extremely crude rap group of twenty years now says that they were actually evangelical Christians all along, with hidden messages about God interspersed. Some said they had figured them out a while ago. Others of their following were upset. So now they rap openly about God, but still with rampant cursing. Their up-bringing definitely affects who they have been and who they are. Yet they want people to know that they need God.

I find the story (http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/oct/09/insane-clown-posse-christians-god) intriguing (warning: a lot of expletives in the link).

I didn't really believe them at first glace (could just be a ploy to attract more attention), but I don't know. They are getting all sorts of criticism from former fans, media, etc. They are sticking to their story nonetheless. Dan Haseltine of Jars of Clay is strongly defending what they're doing. (His Twitter account today is saturated with discussion about it.)

[Paul DeBaufer]

I have heard this about them before. But I have never heard them, nor have I been that interested.

Edited to add after reading the article:

I wondered the same thing as Jeremy that this was some sort of publicity stunt. But as I read on and their admission to psychological issues and they are obviously not the sharpest tools in the shed, that maybe just maybe they are being honest. Maybe they just don't know a better way or that their old stuff was inappropriate. Maybe what they could use is some authentic discipleship. God bless 'em for trying.

[Ryan Scott]

I know they've often talked about claiming a following of dedicated outcasts who can find their identity in the group. There's a section in the documentary "Merchants of Cool" all about them. You can probably find it on Youtube. I find it a bit difficult to connect their violent, often misogynistic lyrics (and actions) with a Christian message.

[Jeffrey Sykes]

Wow, I've read a lot of weird things before but that is right up there with the weirdest. As someone (who like you based from your signature) thinks nonviolence is important to being a Christian, I have a hard time with the lyrics that are quoted there (more than just the expletives).

Why can't the CN's focus on the ICP?

--JS

[Jeffrey Sykes]

I suppose I should feel a bit convicted based on the fact that I really like Johnny Cash, though there has to be some kind of difference there.

--JS

[Edwin Deventer]

Interesting, to say the least. They do seem to be honest about it, I doubt it would be a very effective publicity stunt. Seems to me though, they have a distorted understanding of what being a Christian is about. But perhaps God IS using them in some way to reach out to a particular group of people. The Lord works in mysterious ways..

[Ryan Scott]

Don't such claims need to be proven out, either through actions or with words. None of their words, nor the lyrics of any of the "Christian" songs had anything really to do with faith - other than to say they believe God created the world.

Loving others seems to be the primary element of Christian action - I just don't see any evidence they've shown any consideration for anyone involved in this story.

There is a pretty lucrative market for Christian hardcore music - maybe they're looking to expand their fan base?

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Don't such claims need to be proven out, either through actions or with words. None of their words, nor the lyrics of any of the "Christian" songs had anything really to do with faith - other than to say they believe God created the world.

Loving others seems to be the primary element of Christian action - I just don't see any evidence they've shown any consideration for anyone involved in this story.

There is a pretty lucrative market for Christian hardcore music - maybe they're looking to expand their fan base?

Sounds like they'd fit right in with the CCM industry.

[Paul DeBaufer]

Don't such claims need to be proven out, either through actions or with words. None of their words, nor the lyrics of any of the "Christian" songs had anything really to do with faith - other than to say they believe God created the world.

Loving others seems to be the primary element of Christian action - I just don't see any evidence they've shown any consideration for anyone involved in this story.

There is a pretty lucrative market for Christian hardcore music - maybe they're looking to expand their fan base?

Maybe, just maybe they think that they are acting, now, in accord with love and Christian faith. But maybe, just maybe through their life experiences they really don't know what love is or how to express it. Maybe they have a twisted view of what it is to love. I have met abused women who have very twisted views of what love is because of how they received "love" in their formative years. From the statements in the interview it surely seems that they lack discipleship or any training at all. So, maybe, just maybe the heart of a Christian is there in its infancy begging for discipling.

But you are right there is a huge market for their style in Christian music and they seem to have lost it in the secular music industry. But I didn't see them coming off as smart enough to be that exploitive.

[Dale Cozby]

Yeah right....you can try and feed me a Horse Apple from a Bois D'Arc tree and tell me it is a tasty fruit....I don't need much to discern this one.

20 years of filth and vulgarity, death and mayhem.

Schizophrenic Christianity or Demon possession?

I see a publicity stunt to become a "crossover" into the freakish angry hateful sounding hardcore "Christian" music scene. "There is a sucker born every minute"

Exactly which "fruit" of the Spirit do these guys manifest?.....for 20 years?!
Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, Self-control

[Paul DeBaufer]

Yeah right....you can try and feed me a Horse Apple from a Bois D'Arc tree and tell me it is a tasty fruit....I don't need much to discern this one.

20 years of filth and vulgarity, death and mayhem.

Schizophrenic Christianity or Demon possession?

I see a publicity stunt to become a "crossover" into the freakish angry hateful sounding hardcore "Christian" music scene. "There is a sucker born every minute"

Exactly which "fruit" of the Spirit do these guys manifest?.....for 20 years?!
Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, Self-control

I won't give them 20 years, I see that as a rationalization and trying to clean it up.I was not, nor will I even attempt to defend their past work and deeds-it is indefensible and they really should repent. Maybe they thought they were Christian all that time because they were raised Christian, but they could well have become Christians in the not too distant past. Love believes all things, so I think that I should believe them now, even if I am suspicious.

[Jon Bemis]

In this (http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctentertainment/2010/10/insane-christian-posse-1.html) article Mark Moring writes, "The guys in ICP haven't used the word "Christian" or "evangelical" -- at least not anywhere I've read it -- so let's not call them anything that they're not claiming for themselves. If they do start self-labeling with those terms, well, that could be a whole 'nother discussion. Something about fruit."

Perhaps the media has over-stated the facts?

[Ryan Scott]

In this (http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctentertainment/2010/10/insane-christian-posse-1.html) article Mark Moring writes, "The guys in ICP haven't used the word "Christian" or "evangelical" -- at least not anywhere I've read it -- so let's not call them anything that they're not claiming for themselves. If they do start self-labeling with those terms, well, that could be a whole 'nother discussion. Something about fruit."

Perhaps the media has over-stated the facts?

All they seem to be saying is that God created the world.

[Jim Chabot]

All they seem to be saying is that God created the world.

And they're still sorting out the timeline!


Yeah, technically an elephant is not a miracle. Technically. They've been here for hundreds of years…"

"Thousands," murmurs Shaggy.

Somehow, I have this picture planted in my mind of Thomas Jefferson cutting all of the outlandish stories out of his bible. The clippings end up in a small wooden box that he buries. Many years later two guys in clown suits dig up the box while digging a grave for their recently deceased guinea pig, "buggsy" After the funeral, they sit indian style and open the box while they smoke a bowl.. As they read the contents Shaggy is heard to say "woah, unicorns!" "hey this is cool stuff, we can work this into our act man!" "Yeah, dude, we can be christians again!" "Whoa man, our parents will be really ticked" "Cool man, lets do it"