Prophetic worship

[Roy Richardson]

I have a new parishioner who is asking me about prophetic worship, and I'll confess I don't even know what it is. I found this article (http://www.asong.org/v3/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53:welcome-to-our-company&catid=34:articles-category), and if this is what she is talking about, then I have no experience with it.

Have any of you had experience with this?

Thanks for your input


Roy

[Jon Bemis]

Any time I have heard someone talk about "prophetic worship" it usually is coming from some who believes that our services aren't emotionally expressive enough which they then normally say is because we need to be more "Spirit led." What it boils down to is that it means we don't worship they way they are used to worshiping and so our worship is inferior (wrong). In my case, each time a person has talked to me about PW, they have had a background in a pentecostal church and are used to a pentecostal type worship service and are interested in introducing elements of that into our services.

[Bob Hunter]

I have a new parishioner who is asking me about prophetic worship, and I'll confess I don't even know what it is. I found this article (http://www.asong.org/v3/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53:welcome-to-our-company&catid=34:articles-category), and if this is what she is talking about, then I have no experience with it.

Have any of you had experience with this? Thanks for your input


Roy

Roy,

Prophetic worship is typically includes but is not limited a person who shares a word of knowledge with the congregation. Since I am on loan to the Foursquare Church right now, I am very familiar with this style of worship (even though currently my Church does not practice it much). A worship leader, preacher or lay person may rise to share a "Word" for someone individually or offer a "Word" for the body corporately. Many times prophetic words can be encouraging and comforting. For example, one of our Pastors shared that someone in our congregation was presently suffering with an ailment that affected their throat and it was declared that God intends to heal the affected area. A parishoner may choose to accept the word publicly or not. Another expression of prophetic worship may include inviting so called "prophets" to visit the pulpit. Our Church recently hosted Graham Cooke, an international prophet. I'm having some real fits with his theology, and have been writing critiques regarding his presentation. A prophet will typically offer prophetic words for both individuals and the corporate body. Some of these prophesies are very general in nature and could be considered as edification or encouragement to the body of Christ. The function of a prophet is used very loosely in charismatic circles. I don't see a lot of so called "prophetic" activity as prophetic at all, I just view it as sharing wisdom, comfort or being informed.

Roy, it sounds like this lady needs to find a charismatic Church. But don't send her my way, we already have enough of them!

-Bob

[Roy Richardson]

thanks for the insight. She isn't pushing it hard, she has asked me about it in private on 2 occasions. I'm a little leery of who I let in my pulpit to be honest. I've seen disastrous evangelists in a pulpit, and I've been in prayer meetings where the "word" the same people received every week seemed more like a scolding than anything else.

That being said, I do allow testimonies as they become available. it's a fine line to walk, and I'm new at it.

[Bill Morrison]

I have only been in one service where this type of thing happened. Some years ago, my wife and I decided to visit a few non-Nazarene churches just to see how our others brothers and sisters in Christ worshiped. We went to a large church in the Kansas City area called the Full Faith Church of Love. This was our introduction to standing forever and singing praise choruses (we Nazarenes were behind the times and still used a hymnal). Between the singing and the sermon a man from the congregation got up to share a prophetic word with the congregation. I found it interesting that anyone who wanted to do this had to first go to the front row of seats in the church where all the elders sat and run it by them before they let him speak. I did not have a clue as to what he was talking about. Maybe I wasn't in tune to the Spirit, after all I was Nazarene.

BILL

[Bob Hunter]

I have only been in one service where this type of thing happened. Some years ago, my wife and I decided to visit a few non-Nazarene churches just to see how our others brothers and sisters in Christ worshiped. We went to a large church in the Kansas City area called the Full Faith Church of Love. This was our introduction to standing forever and singing praise choruses (we Nazarenes were behind the times and still used a hymnal). Between the singing and the sermon a man from the congregation got up to share a prophetic word with the congregation. I found it interesting that anyone who wanted to do this had to first go to the front row of seats in the church where all the elders sat and run it by them before they let him speak. I did not have a clue as to what he was talking about. Maybe I wasn't in tune to the Spirit, after all I was Nazarene.

BILL

Bill,

Yes, the practice of judging prophesy. There are people appointed to discern whether or not a "Word" should be spoken. Sometimes so called "prophesy" is someone's personal agenda or some weird saying about the end times. The pulpit is never open to just anyone to share a "Word." I can think of some people that would take advantage of that.

[Bill Morrison]

Bill,

Yes, the practice of judging prophesy. There are people appointed to discern whether or not a "Word" should be spoken. Sometimes so called "prophesy" is someone's personal agenda or some weird saying about the end times. The pulpit is never open to just anyone to share a "Word." I can think of some people that would take advantage of that.

One reason I chose to visit this church was that it was a very large and established charismatic church. I figured that because it was large, even the wild stuff (as judged by a lifelong Nazarene!) that went on would probably be orderly. It was. The permission to prophecy was a good example. I also was impressed(?) by the seeming controlled order of those who danced in the aisles during the interminable chorus singing. I am 59 and have been in Nazarene services where people whooped and hollered and ran, but this was different.

BILL

[David Parker]

Like Bob, we are also in 'one of those' churches right now. It is an independent faith church. Doesn't call itself charismatic or pentecostal, but the senior pastor has a Church of God background and it is part of the Rhema network of churches. It is on fire and where we know we are to be planted right now but has been a big change from our 'old' church where we were for ~25 years.

It is now running ~3000 weekly attendance and is growing crazy fast. Hundreds accept the Lord (and actually fill out Connect Cards) every month. Anyway, we lead a small group study, my wife volunteers in the church office one day a week, I help with the Fellowship One database, and I usher every other week. I've always believed in serving wherever I am planted and I offered to usher because I assumed it would be a great way to meet people. That it is, but it has also been a surprising experience in this worship/ministry environment.

They are a rowdy bunch. Yes, dancing in the aisles, a 'mosh pit' at the front (that sounds 'wrong', but I don't know the sanctified term for hundreds of mostly younger people bouncing and dancing near the platform during worship), occasional 'runners', and frequent laying on of hands and prayer that sometimes results in folks getting overcome by the Spirit and 'falling out' or 'going down'. We ushers get to deal with all of this. Sometimes I feel more like a bouncer at a rock concert, and of course a 'catcher' when folks 'fall out'. It is challenging. But there is no mistaking the presence of the Holy Spirit and lives are definitely getting changed.

They do not allow 'prophetic' interruptions that do not go through the leadership. The services actually are much more structured than they at first appear. Worship can be rather intense, but the pastors are clearly in charge and worship is always followed by lengthy teaching. The theology can sometimes seem scattered, but frankly, it was the same way at the large traditional church we used to attend. It seems to me that many of these big fast growing churches just don't focus too much on deeper theological divisions or labels. It sometimes frustrates me as I sometimes hear things that make me go "huh?", but I've been having those moments in every church I've ever attended. In the end, I'd rather have effective fruitful ministry even if it leaves me puzzled some of the time.

Here is a short video the church just produced introducing the church. I have a short cameo (somehow they caught me laughing!) as does my wife. She is the blond with long hair in the group scene near the end.


http://vimeo.com/15496091

[Susan Unger]

Sometimes I feel more like a bouncer at a rock concert,

Got a kick out of that statement. :)

[Bob Hunter]

Like Bob, we are also in 'one of those' churches right now. It is an independent faith church. Doesn't call itself charismatic or pentecostal, but the senior pastor has a Church of God background and it is part of the Rhema network of churches. It is on fire and where we know we are to be planted right now but has been a big change from our 'old' church where we were for ~25 years.

It is now running ~3000 weekly attendance and is growing crazy fast. Hundreds accept the Lord (and actually fill out Connect Cards) every month. Anyway, we lead a small group study, my wife volunteers in the church office one day a week, I help with the Fellowship One database, and I usher every other week. I've always believed in serving wherever I am planted and I offered to usher because I assumed it would be a great way to meet people. That it is, but it has also been a surprising experience in this worship/ministry environment.

They are a rowdy bunch. Yes, dancing in the aisles, a 'mosh pit' at the front (that sounds 'wrong', but I don't know the sanctified term for hundreds of mostly younger people bouncing and dancing near the platform during worship), occasional 'runners', and frequent laying on of hands and prayer that sometimes results in folks getting overcome by the Spirit and 'falling out' or 'going down'. We ushers get to deal with all of this. Sometimes I feel more like a bouncer at a rock concert, and of course a 'catcher' when folks 'fall out'. It is challenging. But there is no mistaking the presence of the Holy Spirit and lives are definitely getting changed.

They do not allow 'prophetic' interruptions that do not go through the leadership. The services actually are much more structured than they at first appear. Worship can be rather intense, but the pastors are clearly in charge and worship is always followed by lengthy teaching. The theology can sometimes seem scattered, but frankly, it was the same way at the large traditional church we used to attend. It seems to me that many of these big fast growing churches just don't focus too much on deeper theological divisions or labels. It sometimes frustrates me as I sometimes hear things that make me go "huh?", but I've been having those moments in every church I've ever attended. In the end, I'd rather have effective fruitful ministry even if it leaves me puzzled some of the time.

Here is a short video the church just produced introducing the church. I have a short cameo (somehow they caught me laughing!) as does my wife. She is the blond with long hair in the group scene near the end.



Wow David! We could compare notes. What is interesting is that I am not the only Nazarene that has attended my current Church, I have found many others who have come for the healing classes and larger environment. They don't all stay, but they come for the vibrant atmosphere of life and vitality. Like you, I don't mind the dancing and worship-actually kinda prefer it. It beats dead Nazarene worship any day (it wasn't always that way-anyone remember the Noiserenes?). But I do cringe from time to time when certain prophetic words being shared, I worry about how they might be received. I also worry about the lack of discipleship our Church has available. Actually, I am working with them right now to establish a Discipleship Cafe' to promote ongoing discipleship and growth. I haven't completely left my Nazarene family, I still have deep affection for Nazarenes, I see myself on loan to another body.

[David Graham]

Sorry to be a party pooper, but all this dancing down the aisles stuff doesn't do anything for me. Don't get me wrong, if it works for those who do it, good for them, but as for me I prefer a more contemplative type service. Interestingly enough, we have many former "Pentecostal" folk in our church, who came to faith through the ministry of a charasmatic or pentecostal church but looked for something "deeper" in their spiritual walk with God. They seem to appreciate our "much more subdued services" also.

Cheers,
Dave

[Susan Unger]

Sorry to be a party pooper, but all this dancing down the aisles stuff doesn't do anything for me. Don't get me wrong, if it works for those who do it, good for them, but as for me I prefer a more contemplative type service. Interestingly enough, we have many former "Pentecostal" folk in our church, who came to faith through the ministry of a charasmatic or pentecostal church but looked for something "deeper" in their spiritual walk with God. They seem to appreciate our "much more subdued services" also.

Cheers,
Dave

I'm all over the place with this one. Dancing in the aisles and loud music isn't for me while subdued, contemplative services are. I like the healing services of the P/C churches I've been too though and wish I could see more of them in my Naz church. I like the idea of an organic church which is more intimate and "taking the gospel" to the world, but also like a denominational structure with which to pool resources. I like the intellectual bent of the UMC in town but love the fervor of my friends' P/C church. Who knows where I'll ever fit in well?:confused:

[Bob Hunter]

Sorry to be a party pooper, but all this dancing down the aisles stuff doesn't do anything for me. Don't get me wrong, if it works for those who do it, good for them, but as for me I prefer a more contemplative type service. Interestingly enough, we have many former "Pentecostal" folk in our church, who came to faith through the ministry of a charasmatic or pentecostal church but looked for something "deeper" in their spiritual walk with God. They seem to appreciate our "much more subdued services" also.

Cheers,
Dave

Truthfully Dave, I appreciate both. As a former Catholic, I grew up with my share of contemplative worship. I still find myself enjoying the occasional trip to the Abbey in Mt. Angel where Gregorian chants and Benedictine prayers are the norm. But I have to say, I also enjoy expressive worship of the contemporary kind. I like the idea of a worshipper shouting unto God (and it is a scriptural practice). And certainly dancing unto the Lord is Biblical. I guess I see a place for both and personally have come to appreciate what each has to offer. I think at different seasons in my life I find myself more given to one than the other.

I would also add, that while you are seeing Pentecostal people coming for a more contemplative experience, I would note that our Church has scores of former Catholics coming who desire a more expressive corporate worship experience. There is movement both ways. And I am completely okay with that.

-Bob

[David Parker]

Truthfully Dave, I appreciate both. As a former Catholic, I grew up with my share of contemplative worship. I still find myself enjoying the occasional trip to the Abbey in Mt. Angel where Gregorian chants and Benedictine prayers are the norm. But I have to say, I also enjoy expressive worship of the contemporary kind. I like the idea of a worshipper shouting unto God (and it is a scriptural practice). And certainly dancing unto the Lord is Biblical. I guess I see a place for both and personally have come to appreciate what each has to offer. I think at different seasons in my life I find myself more given to one than the other.

I would also add, that while you are seeing Pentecostal people coming for a more contemplative experience, I would note that our Church has scores of former Catholics coming who desire a more expressive corporate worship experience. There is movement both ways. And I am completely okay with that.

-Bob

Agree completely. And I will add that though there is often loud crazy demonstrative worship, there is also plenty of quiet contemplative periods as well...at least at our church. Some of the most powerful times of worship have been the quiet times. I have come to love it all.