The Pastoral Priority of Prayer

[Neal Gray]

Good Friday morning, October 21, 2005, in the Strong Unfailing Name of our Lord Jesus Christ! Amen.

Have you ever wondered WHY the services at our Nazarene Churches seem, well...they are simply dull, lifeless, with no hope? I have, and the Lord convicted me through the preaching of Dr. Jerry Porter at our last General Assembly. Read on, if you want to know what the "sure-fire secret" is to our churches being renewed and revived by the Holy Ghost in Christ Jesus!

My story is long, but the very short version is this: I was a "prayerless pastor," (:gen01) for a long time; but since General Assembly 2005, I have been a "super-with-the-Lord-lavishing-my-time-with-Jesus" type of pastor nearly every day. I want to be WITH Him, not only in the future in Heaven, but NOW, too, on Earth.

Well, our church (birthed in Baltimore, Maryland in 1934; and I've been here 4 years, 8 months, 3 days) has always hovered in the 50-70 in a.m. worship attendance. But, the Lord gave me a vision for 153 worshippers each Sunday morning. And he gave me a "heart for prayer" (more about that below), too. And, we are seeing His movement among us! "Thanks be to God who leads us in Victory and Triumph and Abundant Life through our Lord Jesus Christ!" Amen! (1 Corinthians 15:57; 2 Corinthians 2:14; John 10:10) Indeed, we had 99 attenders last Sunday!

Like you, I'm a faithful Nazarene, loyal to the old movement. But, I'm very disgusted with the lack of obedience, lack of priority on prayer, and the absence of real love at Jesus' church. My heart's burden is that we fulfill what God the Father has said, and what Jesus echoed, namely, "My House shall be called an House of Prayer for all people," (Isaiah 56:7; Matthew 21:13).

My burden is that the lost souls seeking after true righteousness will find the Saving Jesus because they sense He is in our holy assembly--and in us. We have been, it would seem, a stumbling block to them coming to salvation. But we have to persuade all men that being a "Christian" is a very good thing! Praise the Lord that last Sunday morning, on Oct. 16, 2005, two young adults "nailed it down," and "settled the question forever"!!! In the past two months, two children in Carvan have trusted Jesus, too. And, we are seeing the movement of God among us!

But, I'm weary, friends, of the typical Nazarene church where people smile, but complain. They come, but not participate. They give offerings, but have no joy. This is NOT the church that I would want to be a part of if I was a young adult, (I just turned 50).

As of now, I've not gone "ultra-modern," nor "post-modern," nor even "modern" in our worship services. We have hymn books, piano, organ, and my wife plays violin. I'm willing to use off-the-wall projected music, if it brings glory to God the Father and Jesus my Lord; and if I have the equipment and people to use it. But we don't have good stuff, like the K-churches have. I'm open to different and new methods, but I'm not going to become LIKE the world.

I'm in love with the Lord Jesus, too. I want nothing more than to be a part of a church that really (1) loves God, and (2) loves each other, and (3) draws all men to Jesus because we lift Him up, (see John 12:32). These are the top three priorities that Jesus has given to us. Why are we fooling around with priorities #57 and #112, or priorities #24 and #11, or even #3 and #4? We all--every church member and attender--should be experts at loving God, loving others, proclaiming Jesus! Priorities #1, #2, and #3. But we aren't concentrating on the top three; we're messing around with the negotiable stuff that has no real benefit. And griping. And gossiping. And NOT praying FERVENTLY. Does anybody read the Bible? Does anyone really understand about being with God before trying to be with men?

I believe that this can be done (and that it used to be done) in the organization we call the Church of the Nazarene. I have no plans at all to leave my post. But I'm not so sure that I can subscribe any longer to whatever it is that seems to be dragging us down. I like our articles of faith (although two of them are weak), and I like our system of local church government. I like our heritage really well, and our traditions, too, for the most part. BUT, but, but...something has been going wrong for about 30 years.

There seems to be no excitement, no life in our churches. People used to shout "Amen," and "Hallelujah." They tell me that ladies used to wave white hankies as the Pastor preached. They tell me that the Holy Ghost was so very present in the services. (We're we first called, the "Pentecostal Church of the Nazarene"! We were.) They tell me that people used to "get saved" in the Sunday morning services. What happened?! Somewhere in the 70's, as best as I can tell, things cooled down to lukewarm (yikes!).

OKAY, THAT'S MY INTRODUCTION...NOW, FOR THE "SECRET" AS I RECEIVED IT FROM THE LORD. :fun09

But all is not totally lost. I found the "secret." That "secret" is FERVENT, DAILY, REGULAR, SUSTAINED, LENGTHY PRAYER, especially for the Pastor. When I moved from being a "prayerless pastor," to one who literally "tithes my time in prayer" to the Lord each day, (2 hours, 24 minutes), I sensed and do continue to sense the strong resurgence of His Holy Ghost in me to lead His people into Victory, and live on Earth in the "Kingdom of God, which is righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost," (Romans 14:17b).

The time has come to teach our prayerless-pastors to get to the work they are called to do. The MANUAL, for example, calls for us to be "examples in prayer." It ain't happening.

I'm not going to do anything rash. What I am going to do is be about the business that Jesus called me to do--about my Father's business. I'm going to walk in the Spirit, fellowship with the Lord each day, try to live at peace with all men, and preach the Word. And to fuel the effort, I know that my Lord and my God is pleased that I have finally decided to "tithe my time in prayer each day" to Him. I want to be in the presence of Jesus daily and often. Am I boasting in myself? "Nay!" 1,000 times, "Nay." I'm boasting in the Lord who leads me, and allows me to be the Christian Warrior that He needs on this sin-sick planet!!! Again I say, "Thanks be to God who leads us in Victory and Triumph and Abundant Life through our Lord Jesus Christ!"

Finally...I've heard all of the excuses about why to NOT spend significant time in prayer. And none of them are good. How ugly is it to say, (or to live in such a manner that says):
"Lord, I want to be with You, but I can wait until I see You face-to-face in Heaven. For now, won't You be pleased with my prayers before dinner, the Sunday pastoral prayer, my prayers at the hospital bedside, and my prayers as I'm driving down the road.

"And remember Lord, that once a week, we meet for a half-hour with the men in the morning. I hope that's enough for You; it's all I've got time for.

"I'll see Ya' later, Lord, but for now I have too much to do here that keeps me from spending any real amount of time with You here on Earth."
Beloved, I was once a sinner, then I got saved. And sanctified. I was called, and became a Pastor. And then a sanctified-sinner-preacher, omitting what I know God wants from me. What does He want? He wants to spend time with me, (see Revelation 3:20; and read about all the times Jesus thought that spending significant time alone with the Lord was the good thing to do). But those days are over, thanks be to God in Christ Jesus! "Thank You, Lord Holy Ghost for convicting and leading me back to the right Way in Christ! Amen."
My life is in God. I want to be with Him NOW. :fav18 Everything else is negotiable.

Hope your day and week goes really well, and Godspeed...

Neal
--

Dr. Neal Gray -- Pastor
Parkville Church of the Nazarene
Baltimore, Maryland
(410) 661-7096
pastor@parkvillenazarene.org
www.parkvillenazarene.org

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Thanks for sharing from your heart. My prayer is that your church continues to be a beacon where she's at.

[Marsha Lynn]

Welcome to NazNet, Neal. I don't remember seeing you around before. (If you've been here all along, excuse my blindness.)

Thanks for the report on what is happening in your life and your church. I pray that God will continue to work in you and through you.

I looked for a none-of-the-above option on your poll. That would have to be my vote. Do I pray for more than an hour each day? I really try to keep my actual prayer time under an hour if I can. (In addition to time spent reading the Bible and other literature.) Otherwise, I find that I get started too late on my daily tasks. And I think it was John Wesley who noted that conversations lasting over an hour are seldom productive. If I let my prayer time go on too long, it's often because I'm rehashing old issues that need further time to simmer before they're ready for digestion. Sometimes I need to acknowledge that today's mystery is going to remain a mystery for at least another day and that I should probably get to my feet and start tending my life's garden.

So, yes, I spend time with my Father each morning, with occasional exceptions for days that start exceptionally early or allow no opportunity for retreat. I would say that He and I have a very good, up-to-date relationship. I delight in our times together. I continue to enjoy His presence even after leaving my prayer closet. But I've noticed that more time being religious doesn't necessarily convert into a better grasp of the nature of the Kingdom of God. Sometimes it's time to "just do it". This morning we (our Father and me) discussed the new prayer ministry in which I've been asked to participate. That's been an ongoing dialog all week. We talked about my 6.5 billion neighbors and how I should approach the task of praying for so many people, each supremely beloved by God. That came from a NazNet discussion. I asked about a particular situation that someone asked me to pray about. I wasn't quite sure how to pray. Really, I guess this morning's discussion was more about praying than actual requests for favors. I did zero in on a young couple whose path crossed mine this week. I so wish I could make a difference in their broken lives. And I closed with the usual sincere request that God would make me a blessing to someone today. That's the prayer of my life, that I can somehow lighten someone's load as I live each day.

I hope you continue in your fervency in prayer and ministry. I hope you also realize that not everyone who has a vibrant relationship with God will follow the exact same pattern. And I pray that you will recognize that all of us have factors in our life that leave us less than perfect in kingdom living and that you will seek out and delight in the good rather than letting the not-so-good pull you down. Yes, people don't live as they should, but many are doing their best and simply need bridges built and an invitation to a higher level. The church is a wonderful place to do mission work. Everybody there, including you and me, needs the grace of God to do a further work in their lives. And the fact that people walk into the church doors is a good indication that they have at least some interest in spiritual things and might possibly be open to entering into a vital relationship with the God of the universe if someone would only offer to walk alongside them and show them the way.

Just some thoughts.

Marsha

[Chuck Wilkes]

Thanks for your post...I have been saying much the same thing for some time now. I believe that you are on the the essence of what the Body of Christ is about. Keep it up!!

Chuck

[Barbara Phillips]

Welcome to Naz Net Pastor Gray. Wow what a post. God has been talking to me about my prayer life & I need to listen to God even more. I'm hoping to improve on my prayer life in the very near future. Thanks for helping me in this matter.

Thanks for sharing your feelings.

Barbara Phillips
Baltimore Parkville Church of the Nazarene
Sunday School Superintendent
Laymen

[Dave McClung]

I posted a reply to this thread a couple of days ago, then deleted it for fear that I would be misunderstood. I hope that I am not.

I approach the issue of "prayerless pastors" with a deep concern. I am concerned that the devil uses this issue to defeat many pastors. He has sold them the lie that if they only prayed more, their ministry would be more effective. I have never seen any study done, but I sincerely doubt that there is any correllation between how much time a pastor prays and how effective that pastor is.

My views are heavily influneced by personal experience. When I was much younger, a Nazarene evangelist came to our church. He preached that the secret to a successful relationship to God was to pray for a minimum of one hour between the hours of 4 a.m. and 6 a.m. He got as many of us as would to commit to do our best to pray that one hour for the rest of our lives. It almost wrecked our church. Some of us gave it a good try, but I don't know anyone who was able to stick to it. What happened to the evangelist? He committed suicide. I have no way of knowing, but I suspect his problem related to his belief that he just wasn't praying enough.

When I was in Vietnam, I remember seeing the pagodas that people built. They selected to most difficult places to build them, because they thought that the more effort they put into their worship the more likely that God will answer them. We, Christians, shouldn't make that mistake.

I have a sermon that I preached in chapel at ENC. "The Power isn't from your prayer, but from God." When I hear or read pastors emphasizing how much they pray, I get a concern that they have forgotten that prayer isn't about them. It is about God.

When I study the scriptures about prayer, I see the example of Jesus who prayed "all night", but I also see Jesus condemn the religious leaders for "long prayers." What is the difference? Jesus wasn't motivated to have long prayers. He was communicating with God. The religious leaders where praying a long time to seem pious. Let's be like Jesus.

Dave

[Russell Metcalfe]

I posted a reply to this thread a couple of days ago, then deleted it for fear that I would be misunderstood. I hope that I am not.

I approach the issue of "prayerless pastors" with a deep concern. I am concerned that the devil uses this issue to defeat many pastors. He has sold them the lie that if they only prayed more, their ministry would be more effective. I have never seen any study done, but I sincerely doubt that there is any correllation between how much time a pastor prays and how effective that pastor is.

My views are heavily influneced by personal experience. When I was much younger, a Nazarene evangelist came to our church. He preached that the secret to a successful relationship to God was to pray for a minimum of one hour between the hours of 4 a.m. and 6 a.m. He got as many of us as would to commit to do our best to pray that one hour for the rest of our lives. It almost wrecked our church. Some of us gave it a good try, but I don't know anyone who was able to stick to it. What happened to the evangelist? He committed suicide. I have no way of knowing, but I suspect his problem related to his belief that he just wasn't praying enough.

When I was in Vietnam, I remember seeing the pagodas that people built. They selected to most difficult places to build them, because they thought that the more effort they put into their worship the more likely that God will answer them. We, Christians, shouldn't make that mistake.

I have a sermon that I preached in chapel at ENC. "The Power isn't from your prayer, but from God." When I hear or read pastors emphasizing how much they pray, I get a concern that they have forgotten that prayer isn't about them. It is about God.

When I study the scriptures about prayer, I see the example of Jesus who prayed "all night", but I also see Jesus condemn the religious leaders for "long prayers." What is the difference? Jesus wasn't motivated to have long prayers. He was communicating with God. The religious leaders where praying a long time to seem pious. Let's be like Jesus.

Dave

IMHO this is a very wise response. I want to be as deeply spiritual as I know how to be, and I am thankful for testimonies; still it is hard to "quanitfy" spirituality-- I recall falling asleep as a freshman at ENC when I tried the very early morning regimine; I've just tried to "keep at it" over the years in trying to get/keep in step with the Master.
Russ

[Neal Gray]

Good Wednesday afternoon, Oct. 26, 2005, in the Merciful Name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

Thanks be to God for the ability to reason, and ask questions, and state our opinions!

Both of the men who replied above me, Dr. McClung and Dr. Metcalfe, are highly esteemed in my opinion. But they are very wrong in this issue of private prayer. Quantity of time spent in private prayer is such an issue.

Dr. McClung uses the example of the Pharisee who "for a pretence make long prayers," (see Mark 12:38). And in the parallel passage Jesus adds, so "that they may have the glory of men," (see Matthew 6:2). And then Dr. McClung asks, "What's the difference?" between that Pharisee, and Jesus who "continued all night in prayer to God," (see Luke 6:12).

There is a huge difference, sir. The one prayed long in public for everyone to see him and admire him. The Lord Jesus prayed all night for the glory of God alone.

When I posted this thread, I did it because pastors need to be told to pray. Someone has to say it. As I look back over my Christian life, NOBODY has ever encouraged me to pray fervently. I have not posted this to be seen by men as a wonderful praying person; but again, to sound the trumpet that the neglect of praying by pastors (especially) is NOT PLEASING TO GOD.

I am not, not, not suggesting that quantity of time has a direct correlation to spirituality; but I am absolutely saying that a lack of serious time spent in prayer is a strong indicator of a weak relationship with the Lord.

It's too bad that an evangelist disappointed you. Hey, most pastors have disappointed me, too. And I realize that over the years I have disappointed people in the congregations I have served. It does not give the right reason for neglecting serious, sustained, time in prayer with Jesus.

Yes, power is from God, and not from the "mechanical act" of praying. But, why would the Father bestow His best blessings on those who refuse to have private fellowship with Him? He wouldn't and He doesn't.

In the parallel passage from Matthew (for the citing of the in-the-street Pharisee praying, v. 6:5), the next statement Jesus makes is:"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly." (Matthew 6:6)
"When thou prayest," the Master said. He expects that we will have private prayer time with God.

Gentlemen and ladies, I am writing a lengthier missive on this and will post it later tonight. Not to be seen by men; but to teach faithful men "the way of God more perfectly," (cf. Acts 18:26; 2 Timothy 2:2).

Neal
--

Dr. Neal Gray -- Pastor
Parkville Church of the Nazarene
Baltimore, Maryland
(410) 661-7096
pastor@parkvillenazarene.org
www.parkvillenazarene.org (http://www.parkvillenazarene.org/)

[Terri Knoll]

IMHO this is a very wise response. I want to be as deeply spiritual as I know how to be, and I am thankful for testimonies; still it is hard to "quanitfy" spirituality-- I recall falling asleep as a freshman at ENC when I tried the very early morning regimine; I've just tried to "keep at it" over the years in trying to get/keep in step with the Master.
Russ

I love you guys and your openess, thank you so much for sharing, I am blessed to know you.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

I would very gently say that "one hour" may be an important step in one's prayer journey, but it is not the conclusion or the ultimate attainment in prayer. At some level of that journey in the future you may find that the clock is irrelevant.

[Neal Gray]

Are Prayerless Pastors "Normal"

Good Thursday mornning, October 27, 2005, in the Majestic Name of our Lord Jesus Christ! Amen.

Many thanks to you who have replied, both on the forum and some to me via e-mail, and seemed to feel also that serious, fervent, lengthy prayer is so very important. But, some have spoken outside of this forum, saying interesting things that suggest that "prayerless pastors" are the norm. At the very least, they suggest that praying for even one hour a day is not normal. Let me quote a paragraph from one e-mail I received:

"The simple truth is that most pastors and laymen don't pray for one hour a day. To suggest that such a prayer life is 'normal' isn't honest and to make people feel guilty about not dedicating that much time to prayer isn't healthy."

I was a bit stunned to read this from a Church of the Nazarene person.

And yes, I do think that especially pastors should purposely, daily, faithfully, lovingly be in the presence of the Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus in prayer. And that their time with the Lord should be of significant length. Look at the Scripture and what Jesus did in prayer:

"And it came to pass in those days, that He went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God." (Luke 6:12)

Jesus prayed ALL NIGHT TO GOD. (So much for the idea that one has to get up early in the morning to have effective prayer!) My point is that Jesus did not pray for just a short while. He came into the presence of God, and spoke with Him, and listened to Him--ALL NIGHT LONG.

Of course, it is also good to pray early in the morning, as our Lord did:

"And in the morning, rising up a great while before day, He went out, and departed into a solitary place, and there prayed." (Mark 1:35)

Many people attest to the wonderful effects that praying early in the morning has for them. They simply feel that getting the day started in the presence of the Almighty is a very good thing.

Whether you are an early-riser to pray, or a late-at-night to pray person, or even if you pray in the mid-afternoon, here is the simple truth: praying privately with the Lord is something that Jesus did, He did it for more than fifteen minutes, and it is something that we should do, too.

What is not healthy about telling pastors that they should regularly engage in lengthy prayer? Praying IS the right thing to do. Spending a fair amount of time in prayer IS the normal thing to do. Look, Jesus tells me that I should "deny myself," and "take up my cross daily, and follow Him." Is it unhealthy for people to hear THAT convicting truth as well? No.

**********************************
End of "Are Prayerless Pastors NORMAL?" (Part 1 of 2)

Dr. Neal Gray -- Pastor
Parkville Church of the Nazarene
Baltimore, Maryland
(410) 661-7096
pastor@parkvillenazarene.org
www.parkvillenazarene.org (http://www.parkvillenazarene.org/)

[Neal Gray]

Are Prayerless Pastors "Normal" (Part 2 of 2)


Continued from "Are Prayerless Pastors NORMAL?" (Part 1 of 2)
***********************************************
Good Thursday mornning, October 27, 2005, in the Majestic Name of our Lord Jesus Christ! Amen.



(Continuing my post about why Pastors (especially) must needs pray...)

And why object to my suggestion that pastors pray for at least one hour daily? If YOU were to come visit my home, I wouldn't insist that you leave after 15 minutes! And, if you invite me over to your house, and I came over to visit you at your home, I would be fairly insulted if after 15 minutes you said, "Now, Neal, so sorry friend, but I have way too much to do to continue our visit. So, goodbye until tomorrow." Hmmm. I might not feel inclined to come back to your home the next day!

Some other people have written to me off-line from this forum, and told me that they just cannot stay focused for very long when they pray. They say it is difficult to pray for more than 10 or 15 minutes. I think I can help with this problem.

Perhaps you have never thought of prayer like this: When you view prayer as a "chore" to be done, it is not any fun at all. But, when you see your time in prayer as time to be with Jesus, then the whole perspective changes. We all know this verse:


"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear My voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me." (Revelation 3:20)


Jesus "comes in," and so you are not chatting to the Lord while standing in the church foyer or outside on the walkway. He literally resides within you, and that is the “mystery of the ages,” i.e., “Christ in you,” (see Colossians 1:26-27).

And, Jesus desires to "sup with you," which means spending time having fellowship. But we say to Him after a brief visit with the Lord, "Okay, Jesus, I've spent enough time with you, so I'm off to do other things now. Good-bye, Lord."

Really! I mean, how rude can we be to our Savior?!

Beloved, I want you to know how I really feel about prayer. So, let me lay it out clearly, point-by-point:



Prayer is a waste of time! That's right, a waste of time. While I'm praying I simply cannot get other things done. I cannot call anybody on the telephone. I cannot write letters. I cannot look at NazNet. I cannot visit anybody in the hospital...ad infinitum.
Jesus is worthy of me wasting my time on Him! People sit in front of the "one-eyed God," i.e. the television, for an hour or more at a time; and you tell me that you cannot have a conversation with Jesus for an hour? They stay on the internet for an hour or more at a time; and you tell me that you cannot pray for one hour? And what's more, you tell me that to pray for one hour is not normal?! If spending time in prayer is a waste of time, then I'm going to lavish Jesus with my precious time each day. Jesus Christ and He alone are worthy of my time! Amen.
All throughout the Bible, I find the admonition to pray. Which great figure in the Bible did not pray? Hmmm? And certainly my Jesus prayed, even "all night" He prayed to God.
From a practical holiness side, here is something so very important: Pastors and laymen who don't regularly visit in long meaningful conversations with God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ through the Holy Ghost are simply missing out on the most sublime aspect of the Christian life. When I pray, I sense the presence of the Almighty with me and in me in a very very special way. Yes, I sense God in my life during the normal routines of my day, too, but there is something very different about the closeness of God during my personal private prayer time. Friend, you are simply missing out on something very special by not regularly, daily, coming to Jesus in the Holy Ghost for a sustained, lengthy period.
And lastly, I WANT to be in the presence of Jesus daily and for a sustained time. Even if the Lord never answers any of my prayers, (which is absurd, of course, because He will answer my prayers--that's what Jesus WANTS TO DO FOR ME); but even if He didn't answer my prayers, still it is wonderful just to be with Him! I suspect that many of you feel that way, too. (Please e-mail me and let me know, or post on this forum your feelings, too, about being “in the presence of Jesus.” Thanks!) FRIENDS, I absolutely believe and KNOW that spending a lengthy time with God in prayer each day--and yes, I mean an hour or more--is NORMAL, and right, and good, and holy and pleasing to God. You say you want to be with God, but you seem as though you are content to wait until you get to Heaven; is this the case? Listen, my eternal life in and with Christ has already started!

Do you want to know why our Nazarenes are so worldly? I'll tell you one reason: they can sit at the movie theater or sports event for two hours, but they say that they are too busy to pray for one hour. As my father-in-law says to similar ridiculous behavior, "Hogwash!" I wonder if our church people have simply never been taught to pray? Or, they hear Christian men speak saying that praying in a daily sustained prayer time is “not normal,” and so, confused, our people put private personal prayer time aside. What a pity!

And, IF YOU are offended by my insistence that daily lengthy prayer IS normal, and YOU feel guilty by it, then spiritual health is worth considering. It is very healthy for a Christian man or woman to feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit for not spending time with God! Actually, that is a very good sign. The Father chastises those whom He loves (see Hebrews 12:5-11). The Holy Ghost reproves us and guides us into all truth (see John 16:7-14).

Listen, I am as busy as any Pastor. But if I ignore what I know to be the right, godly, friendly, warm, and loving thing to do--i.e., if I choose to not spend daily significant time with Jesus in the Holy Spirit--then whatever am I doing in this vocation?!!! Pastors are the be “examples to the flock,” (see 1 Peter 5:1-3). Pastors must needs be in prayer, and what's more, they really ought to feel that it is a privilege and honor and a joy to be quietly together with Jesus each day. Here’s a reality for me: I cannot even mention all of the people’s names from our church before the Lord in less than an hour! Don’t the people of your church deserve to have a Pastor who will bring their name, their situations, their family, and their spiritual lives before the throne of Grace regularly? How can I stand in the pulpit on Sunday to proclaim, “Thus says the Lord,….,” when I cannot truthfully say, “I have been in the presence of Jesus interceding for you this week?” Friends, it takes quantity of time to intercede in prayer for your people with God. Have I said anything here that is wrong?

And what about Christians who are not in pastoral ministry? Hey, I know you have to go to a job, work with sinners, and navigate in a sin-sick world each day. So, you may not spend the amount of time I do each day in prayer. But don't you know that only Jesus can keep us "clean" from the evil influences of the world (and as you, know the devil is seeking to devour you and your spiritual fervency, [see 1 Peter 5:8])? Are you not aware that after being in the presence of worldy-I-don’t-care-about-your-Jesus men all day, that it is good to rest in the presence of Jesus each day?

Here is a practical spiritual living thing to do: In the morning, pray an hour to ask the Holy Spirit to keep you safe. Or, in the evening, pray an hour to ask the Holy Spirit to refresh you. Or both! Does my prescription seem odd to you? or not normal? or not right? or not biblical? or unhealthy? Why would it! You are a Christian! You are royalty. Come into His presence with thanksgiving in your heart! And receive the precious gift of the presence of Jesus, who desires to spend time alone with you. What could be better?

Well, please write me. I'll respond. And please vote on the poll at the top of this thread. I'm a bit scared that not only do our Nazarenes not pray (much), but that they have been taught to think it is "not important at all" to spend significant daily time in prayer with their Lord. I tell you the truth, misled friend: it is a very important thing that you spend time in prayer daily with the Almighty God, and this neglect of FERVENT prayer lies at the heart of our woes in Jesus' Church.

Let me know, please, how you are feeling about this. Many persons are sending e-mails to me privately confirming in their own lives the truths I have just shared with you. Thanks for reading, and Godspeed...

Neal
--

Dr. Neal Gray -- Pastor
Parkville Church of the Nazarene
Baltimore, Maryland
(410) 661-7096
pastor@parkvillenazarene.org
www.parkvillenazarene.org (http://www.parkvillenazarene.org/)

[Hans Deventer]

I am not, not, not suggesting that quantity of time has a direct correlation to spirituality; but I am absolutely saying that a lack of serious time spent in prayer is a strong indicator of a weak relationship with the Lord.

Neal, I think in issues like these, it is the tone that makes the music. People can be so overwhelming as to make it sound like it is just another law.

Because one could with equal biblical justification say that "a lack of serious money given to the church is a strong indicator of a weak relationship with the Lord", or "a lack of serious time spent in work for the Lord is a strong indicator of a weak relationship with the Lord". And there a probably a couple I missed.

I think that the issue is that we can speak about prayer or any good work as much as we want, but the question remains how. Dave told about an evangelist who preached it as a law. The law kills, as we all know, and it probably litterally killed him too.

Jesus invites us to come when we are "heavvy laden". Not to burden us with new laws but to set us free. Yes, free to live with Him.

And as to the one hour rule, Romans 14:4 says to all of us:
Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

You've found a great tool for your ministry and Christian walk. That's great. Of course, you want to share it. That's great too!
But my recommandation would be, share it by telling what it has done to you, how it changed your life and ministry. That way, people will say, "Hey, that is what I want!".

God bless you.

[Neal Gray]

Hans, Good Thursday morning (Oct. 27, 2005).

Of course, you are very right in your words that you posted. We live in GRACE, and certainly not law. Isn't that very great!

BUT, but, but...I am not advocating even that we must pray for one hour. I'm not at all saying that all your burdens and miseries will be done away with, if you only pray for one hour. NO, no, no. And I'm not saying that if you don't pray for one hour or more then God is not going to bless you.

What I am saying is that I'm amazed at how people CHOOSE TO NOT spend any significant amount of time with their Lord Jesus in personal, private, prayer time. WHY would a Christian refuse to engage in daily fellowship with God? Yes, I do the "pray without ceasing" method, too. But there is something new and unique about spending a personal time with Jesus.

Just a short illustration: If when I married my wife, Vicki, (now for over 24 years), if I said to her, "Honey, I love you, baby. Yeah, yeah, yeah. WOW! We're married now. So, please cook for me, wash my clothes, lie in my bed, bear my children...but I'm only going to come home to see you on Saturday and Sunday. The other days, don't you know, I'm busy out making a living for you and me. So, I'll be home on the weekends. Hope that's okay with you. We're married now, and that's the way it's going to be." WELL, how is she going to react to those stupid words?! Especially when I don't have to be out all week! I could be home with her. Something is dreadfully wrong.

So, what does the Almighty Father think when we argue about why it is okay to not spend personal time with Him?

I'm just fascinated that Christian men and women could put forth arguments suggesting that a lengthy time of daily personal fellowship with Jesus in prayer is not the right, proper, holy, wonderful thing to do.

Hey folks, if you want to pray only 10 minutes a day, or 23 minutes, or any other time; then fine. It is YOUR relationship with Jesus, and you ought to do as He leads you.

As for me and my house, and my life, I look forward to being in close fellowship with Jesus in the Holy Ghost each day. Amen.

No, I don't follow man-made rules nor the law, (except that the Bible says to "submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake," [1 Peter 2:13a]), for as you said, "the law kills." Rather, I am about LIFE! I am about life in Christ, for "this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son," (see 1 John 5:11). And I live that life in the Holy Spirit, who "gives life," (see 2 Corinthians 3:6).

Hans, you are so right. No more burdens. No more laws. But I put it before you, let's live our lifes IN THE SON and WALK IN THE SPIRIT and DEVOTE OURSELVES TO PRAYER. The Apostles appointed men full of the Holy Spirit to help with the church work because they sensed strongly, "But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word," (Acts 6:4); and St. Paul instructs us to "continue in prayer," (Colossians 4:2).


I've now written about my strong feeling that we should engage in a regular, daily, sustained, lengthy prayer each day. I will soon begin posting the benefits of such behavior, and the "how" to do it helps. Thank you for your kind words and suggestion, Hans.

Neal
--

Dr. Neal Gray -- Pastor
Parkville Church of the Nazarene
Baltimore, Maryland
(410) 661-7096
pastor@parkvillenazarene.org
www.parkvillenazarene.org (http://www.parkvillenazarene.org/)

[Michael R. Gentry]

Not that it matters ... but to the powers that be ... where did my previous post on this thread go ??? :basic04
You don't have to answer ... just an observation that it disappeared

[Peggy Neilsen]

Hi Mike,

I've heard that there was a crash on Tuesday evening, and many posts, registrations, and other things were lost. I noticed that your response to Dr. Gray's thread was missing to.

What a BUMMER!!

Well I hope and pray you have a wonderful day!

Love & Prayers,
Peggy.

[Michael R. Gentry]

Hmmmmm, kind of interesting (it was the only one) of all my posts that "crashed" ... My post wasn't even controversial this time:)

I've kind of got used to my posts "crashing" from time to time on the Naznet Fellowship board. At least I know people are reading what I post :basic05


Anyway, back to the point of this thread. Dr. Gray is correct in advocating that we need more time in prayer. Have you ever noticed that the men who have the largest churches in the world spend hours in prayer? Dr. Cho, for one, in Korea spends 3-4 hours a day. Could there be some correlation in time spent with God and the effectiveness of our ministry?

The amount of time (such as one hour) is not important, it is what takes place between you and God that is important! That interchange could take place in a few minutes, or a few hours. Same in our relationships with people. There are times I can spend a few minutes with a friend and our conversation is done, sometimes we need much more time together to catch up on things, to share ideas, and to build friendship.

[Russell Metcalfe]

Hmmmmm, kind of interesting (it was the only one) of all my posts that "crashed" ... My post wasn't even controversial this time:)

I've kind of got used to my posts "crashing" from time to time on the Naznet Fellowship board. At least I know people are reading what I post :basic05


Anyway, back to the point of this thread. Dr. Gray is correct in advocating that we need more time in prayer. Have you ever noticed that the men who have the largest churches in the world spend hours in prayer? Dr. Cho, for one, in Korea spends 3-4 hours a day. Could there be some correlation in time spent with God and the effectiveness of our ministry?

The amount of time (such as one hour) is not important, it is what takes place between you and God that is important! That interchange could take place in a few minutes, or a few hours. Same in our relationships with people. There are times I can spend a few minutes with a friend and our conversation is done, sometimes we need much more time together to catch up on things, to share ideas, and to build friendship.

This fits in with a quote that came with the Nazarene pastor's encouragement forum from Kansas City this morning:Wisdom from fellow pilgrims:

It is not so much of our time and so much of our attention that God demands; it is not even all our time and all our attention: it is ourselves. For each of us the Baptist’s words are true: “He must increase and I decrease.” He will be infinitely merciful to our repeated failures; I know no promise that he will accept a deliberate compromise.

— C. S. Lewis


Russ

[Peggy Neilsen]

Hi this is Peggy Neilsen, I'm posting this message for one of the ladies in our church. Below is a message that she asked me to post to this thread. She is unable to post on Naznet, but asked me to share her thought with everyone.

************************************************** ********

My name is Janet, and I am the Prayer Ministry Director of the Parkville Church of the Nazarene in Baltimore, Maryland. The Lord gave me a burden for our church and I’ve been praying for years that the Lord would make us a house of prayer and now we're beginning to see the answers to those prayers.


Since the last General Assembly (which was preceded by a million hours of prayer) our Pastor, (Dr. Neal Gray), has been RADICALLY enlightened by the Lord as to the importance and the primacy of prayer. God has been blessing our church with the sweetness of His presence--and His Spirit is moving. On many of our Sunday morning services, people come to the altar after Pastor preaches, seeking to gain or regain their closeness with the Lord. And in our last Sunday evening service, Dr. Estelle Gross, (a lady preacher on our District who is known as a praying pastor), came as a guest preacher; she preached and everyone in the service went forward to ask the Lord to communicate with them and break strongholds in their lives. THANK YOU, JESUS!

Now the church leadership and the entire congregation is really starting to grasp the importance of prayer and listening to the Lord and walking in step with His Spirit.

There seems to be a concern expressed by some of you on NazNet about sustained, lengthy prayer and the time allotted to prayer. The Lord said “My house shall be a house of prayer.” He doesn't say a house of preaching or singing or pot-luck lunches. He said My house shall be a house of prayer. If other Pastors out there have not experienced the same fervor for prayer maybe it’s because they haven't understood that their churches are expected to be houses of prayer.


There are many reasons to spend sustained time in prayer, such as:

* Intercession,
* spiritual warfare,
* guidance,
* enlightenment,
* the Lord putting a burden on your heart, and many other reasons.


It has been my experience that the best reason for sustained lengthy prayer (and one of it’s true blessings) is to draw near to God, just to spend time with Him after you've given Him your praise and petitions and laid down your burdens. Much like a little child crawling up into his father’s arms, it’s a place of warmth and rest and peace and love. There, enveloped in his arms there is security and comfort. You are so close that you can feel the beat of his heart and hear his whisper and you know that you are loved.


Prayer can be like that only ten thousand times better because you are drawing near to the heart of God. He is the Lover of your soul, and the voice you hear is the voice that imparts wisdom and changes us into the people He wants us to become. Psalm 91 talks about dwelling in the secret place of the Most High, in the shadow of the Almighty. There is no better place to be and no better place to spend our time this side of Heaven.



I am remembering priorities number 1 and 2, i.e., love the Lord with all your heart and love each other. Let me pray now: "Lord, please keep us in one accord and united in a bond of love. Lord, enlighten our understanding, teach us all to pray, put our feet on higher ground and if there is anyone reading this that doesn't know what it’s like to draw near to the heart of God and literally feel Your love, bless them Lord and show them what it’s all about. I ask this in the precious name of my Lord Jesus, Amen."

[Michael R. Gentry]

Sis. Janet:

May God continue to bless you as Director of Prayer for the Parkville Church. Amen and Amen to what you shared!!!

[Sharon Isley]

I find that when I go to my church early in the morning, and pray out loud, well, an hour passes so quickly. Especially when struggling with serious issues, it seems there is never enough time to pray.

[BobHunt]

I do believe prayer not only helps but empowers the pastor. I pastored for a time, and I knew it when I did not spend as much time on my knees as I should have before a sermon. I do not post this in any way to disrespect those who have said different. Yes, there are those who say you must pray in the morning etc. I think God wants us to pray when we know we will be alert and undistracted by things around us. After all, we are human and get tired, and many have felt beaten down because they feel aleep during prayer time. We cant be in bondage to the clock.
Some of the old timers used to talk about every so often being drawn to a place of prayer. It was so strong that they had to put down whatever they were doing and pray. They saw many people saved too, and many revivals that swept through the land. Until any of our more modern ideas produce results like these, I will have to hold on to the value of prayer for pastor and people alike.

[BobHunt]

Pastor Neal, I really appreciate your post! Im sure that the Lord will reward your faithfulness!

[Sharon Isley]

I do have one question, and I ask this because frankly, I'm hurting. I pray an hour or more, and spend another half hour to an hour in personal Bible reading - not for sermon prep, but for feeding my own soul. Is there always a correlation between our time in prayer, and what happens in our churches?

Because our finances are in a steady deline. We are growing (there were 15 people here when I came), but we are still under 30 people on a Sunday morning. It has been 2 years since I saw someone saved.

My heart hurts. I'm not praying to make God my servant. I am His. I'll keep on praying, and waiting to see His miracle. My own relationship with God is growing stronger. My sermons, I am sure, are God's messages. And I can see how the people in the church are growing closer to God too. But it isn't what I'm longing for.

If there was a formula I could follow, I would do it. My prayer time isn't about making God do what I want. It is about alligning my will with His will, getting to know His heart, and bringing the needs of my people to Him. I hope He will respond by changing people's hearts and lives, and growing our church. But whether I see outward growth or not, I will keep praying. Because I can't live without God.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

I do have one question, and I ask this because frankly, I'm hurting. ... Is there always a correlation between our time in prayer, and what happens in our churches?


Terrific question Sharon. Someone has said that the end result of prayer is more prayer. Someone else said that to pray because "prayer works" is a dangerous thing.

I think the great result of prayer is that we become more like Jesus and therefore have a deeper relationship with the Lord.

That deeper relationship then enables us to pray more in harmony with God's purposes and makes us partners with God in his work in the lives of all those around us.

With all that in mind, my response to your question is that there is a direct relationship to what happens in my life as a result of prayer, but an indirect relationship to what happens in the lives of others.

When I pray, I am changed and my connection with God is changed. I become a co-worker with him in this world.

But God's purposes are not always carried out. Some people have a free will and simply reject God's will. Others are responding, but not in ways we immediately see.

My advice is to concentrate on God and keep a vital connection with him in your prayer life. Pray for your church and community in ways that seem to be in harmony with how God would have you pray. Don't pray just so the church will grow, or even so that people will be saved. Let that part be an outflow of what the Spirit is praying in and through you.

Does this make sense? Hope so!

[Billy Cox]

The bigger problem seems to be that when we DO pray, we pray for the wrong things.

[Neal Gray]

I do have one question, and I ask this because frankly, I'm hurting. I pray an hour or more, and spend another half hour to an hour in personal Bible reading - not for sermon prep, but for feeding my own soul. Is there always a correlation between our time in prayer, and what happens in our churches? ... My heart hurts. I'm not praying to make God my servant. I am His. I'll keep on praying, and waiting to see His miracle. My own relationship with God is growing stronger. ... If there was a formula I could follow, I would do it. I will keep praying. Because I can't live without God.
Sharon,

Good Monday morning in the Never Failing Name of our Lord Jesus! I hope you had a good Lord's Day.

I agree so completely with Scott Cundiff's reply to you. But here are my thoughts.

First, I am so sorry that you are hurting. Surely it is true that want God's best in your life, the church, and the congregation's lives. And when it does not happen, we hurt. Yes, I understand.

Second, no, there is not a "formula" that will "compel" the Lord God Almighty to act in the way we want Him to act. No, absolutely not! The Lord is "moved" by your love, by your prayers and Jesus' intercessory prayers on your behalf--and nothing else.

Thirdly, the Lord definitely has His own timetable for events to transpire. Remember the Israelites who were captive in Egypt for 400 years? Those in the middle of that time must have thought that God did not hear them at all! And those in captivity in Babylon for 70 years? What did they think when their prayers seemingly went unanswered? They hurt, too. BUT, but, but...

Fourth, there is something new in our dispensation of grace. Jesus has absolutely handed us the "keys of Heaven," and so we have a new "power" to influence and bring God's grace into our little sphere of living.

Do you remember what the Risen Savior told the apostles just before He ascended?"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." (Acts 1:8)
POWER! From God! From the Holy Ghost! What is that "power" for? To be witnesses unto and about Jesus!!! Being a witness--a strong, prayerful, powerful witness--will attract people. Truth is, the Father is looking for persons, ministers, and churches that will be faithful to make disciples. We all know that no one comes to the Father except by Jesus; but the reverse is true, too, namely: "No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day," (John 6:44). I am finding that as I pray, in Jesus' Name, to the Father, that He brings new souls into our life's path and our church fellowship. The "power" that Jesus has given to us is for us to faithfully lead a person into the wonderful knowledge about Jesus, and to make disciples.

Lastly, we are in a battle! I love the OT passage that says, "Thus saith the LORD unto you, 'Be not afraid nor dismayed by reason of this great multitude; for the battle is not yours, but God's,'" (see 2 Chronicles 20:15). Even so, and even though the battle is not yours, our God still expects us to "suit up," and be on the battlefield to watch the Lord work mightily for our safety and success (read the next 2 verses)!

Listen, my sister friend, we are in a spiritual battle. The whole tenor of the NT is that we are fighting a frustrated foe. It will be tough; the fight will be tiring; the battle will wear us down. But, since we know that we have mighty weapons, "For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds," (2 Corinthians 10:4), then we can fight the good fight, and be assured of Victory in Christ Jesus!

So, what do we do when we don't see thousands of people, (or hundreds, or even dozens), flocking into our church to hear "the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ," (Romans 15:29)? We thank God that those who He has drawn there...are there! And we preach Christ, the crucified and Risen Christ Jesus! And we bless them with the grace of the presence of the Holy Ghost as Jesus is "lifted up." And when the worshippers go home, then the Pastor engages each day in fervent prayer, asking the Lord to be true to His Word; i.e., that as we lift Jesus up, exalting Him and Him alone, then "He will draw all men to Himself," (see John 12:32).

St. Paul's words conclude my discussion this morning well: "Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of His might." (Ephesians 6:10)

Godspeed to you all...

Neal
--

Dr. Neal Gray -- Pastor
Parkville Church of the Nazarene
Baltimore, Maryland
(410) 661-7096
pastor@parkvillenazarene.org
www.parkvillenazarene.org (http://www.parkvillenazarene.org/)

[Adam Wallis]

you wrote:<begin quote>
I'm in love with the Lord Jesus, too. I want nothing more than to be a part of a church that really (1) loves God, and (2) loves each other, and (3) draws all men to Jesus because we lift Him up, (see John 12:32). These are the top three priorities that Jesus has given to us. Why are we fooling around with priorities #57 and #112, or priorities #24 and #11, or even #3 and #4? We all--every church member and attender--should be experts at loving God, loving others, proclaiming Jesus! Priorities #1, #2, and #3. But we aren't concentrating on the top three; we're messing around with the negotiable stuff that has no real benefit. And griping. And gossiping. And NOT praying FERVENTLY. Does anybody read the Bible? Does anyone really understand about being with God before trying to be with men?

I believe that this can be done (and that it used to be done) in the organization we call the Church of the Nazarene. I have no plans at all to leave my post. But I'm not so sure that I can subscribe any longer to whatever it is that seems to be dragging us down. I like our articles of faith (although two of them are weak), and I like our system of local church government. I like our heritage really well, and our traditions, too, for the most part. BUT, but, but...something has been going wrong for about 30 years.

There seems to be no excitement, no life in our churches. People used to shout "Amen," and "Hallelujah." They tell me that ladies used to wave white hankies as the Pastor preached. They tell me that the Holy Ghost was so very present in the services. (We're we first called, the "Pentecostal Church of the Nazarene"! We were.) They tell me that people used to "get saved" in the Sunday morning services. What happened?! Somewhere in the 70's, as best as I can tell, things cooled down to lukewarm (yikes!).

OKAY, THAT'S MY INTRODUCTION...NOW, FOR THE "SECRET" AS I RECEIVED IT FROM THE LORD.

But all is not totally lost. I found the "secret." That "secret" is FERVENT, DAILY, REGULAR, SUSTAINED, LENGTHY PRAYER, especially for the Pastor. When I moved from being a "prayerless pastor," to one who literally "tithes my time in prayer" to the Lord each day, (2 hours, 24 minutes), I sensed and do continue to sense the strong resurgence of His Holy Ghost in me to lead His people into Victory, and live on Earth in the "Kingdom of God, which is righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost," (Romans 14:17b).
<end quote>

I noticed that the questions on your poll give a brief qualification to the various Yes and No answers. It seems to me that the more that the available answers are qualified on a poll, the more limited is the meaning of the responses. So, are those the only meaningful responses? If the available answers reflect the intentions and opinions of the author of the poll more than they can genuinely reflect the state of affairs of the topic under consideration. I notice that you have given about 4 or so "yes" answer choices and only 1 "no" option; with the assumption that anyone who votes "no" feels that they are "close enough" with God. For example, one who votes "no" could feel that there are gobs more explicit commands to God's people to spend time w/ sinners and the poor than there are to spend hours "fervently" praying.

While the various answers for the poll were qualified to match a range of voter opinion, I noticed that "prayer" in general was not qualified, except to say whether there was alot of it or not. I quoted the above text to draw attention to what I see is a connection that the NT does not really make. That is, that prayer brings a closeness to God, which would otherwise be lacking, then allows for a more Godly interaction w/ men (and women).On the other hand, Scripture does not assume that closeness to the Lord is wrought through prayer. It was not the prayer in the Garden that glorified God, but his obedience unto death. As far back as the Shema in Deut 6 confesses that "the LORD your God, who is present with you." The Law comprised directions for faithfulness of God's people to act faithfully because God was present among them and jealous of their idolatries. Likewise, God was and is present among His people in Scripture through the Law, the Ark, his Word through the prophets, the living Word and the Holy Spirit. When newcommers visit good Christian churches, they are in the default company of the church-baptized-in-the-Spirit. Therefore, the presence of God is already among His people.

So, to see that the problem plaguing churches and their pastors today is a lack of fervent lengthy prayer is to suggest the plethora of explicit commands for loving God and our neighbor/enemies. The ability for witnessing to others about the ressurection (or in your words "being with men") was assumed because of the presence of the Spirit. The presence of God is assumed prior to the commands to do justice, love mercy and walk humbly w/ our God. Likewise, the pouring of the Spirit onto the church at Pentecost confronts our contemporary assumption that, if we are lucky, the Holy Spirit will show up in our weekly services. Rather, if we are lucky, we will have been faithful to invite unbelievers into our Christian fellowship (which assumes we have good Christian fellowship) where we forgive each other, bear one another's burdens and provide for people who are in need.

As for "THE 'SECRET' AS I RECEIVED IT FROM THE LORD." This has the impression, whether or not you intend to give it, that you place the authority of your "secret" equal to that of scripture. You give to it the utmost of importance in pastoral ministry and suggest of it a "secretive" quality that strikes a possible gnostic note. Perhaps you could clarify this for me/us if you feel it necessary.

Now, all that is not to say that prayer is insignificant. If I were a church pastor, I would definitely pray more than I do now. The evidence and Scriptural support for lengthy fervent prayer is either fairly dubious in the first case or lacking in the second case. Now every good Jew 2000 years ago prayed. But they prayed for the coming of the Kingdom. The prayer that Jesus gave us to pray was also a thy-kingdom-come kind of prayer. If we are looking to Jesus for an example of long fervent praying, then it becomes awkward when he doesn't exactly ask the disciples to come w/ him, or pray while he is praying they are to keep watch. And so we have to come up w/ reasons for elevating prayer to a level that the NT does not give it. If I were to post a poll, I would be curious to find out what kinds of things our pastors, and their churches, pray for.


blessings,
adam

[Marsha Lynn]

Adam, I appreciate your thoughtful comments.

We've been going through With Christ in the School of Prayer by Andrew Murray (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/murray/prayer.titlepage.html) in the young adult SS class I lead. It has been a wonderful blessing to me.

Last week we looked at the parable of the friend at midnight. This week we were in Matthew 9 where Jesus instructed his disciples to pray for workers for the harvest. (Lessons 8 and 9 from the book) In both cases, there were two elements required for the prayer to be successful -- 1) concern for others (desire to have something to offer the friend on a journey; concern that the harvest be brought in, i.e. compassion for the harassed and helpless crowd) and 2) confidence in the one with resources to meet the needs of those 'others'.

Although perseverance was uplifted in the former lesson, neither indicated that one would need to spend some minimum amount of time crying out for those resources before they would be made available. Is it the fervency and length of the praying that counts or is it the depth of the awareness and concern for the needs of others and confidence in the One who can meet those needs?

My prayer times are the highlight of my days. I could easily spend too much time in my prayer closet and neglect the tedious details of daily living. One of my life lessons is that there's as much obedience and faithfulness in those tedious details as there is in praying and I need to seek balance in my days. If we know to respond to the needs of those who ask us "how much more" will our Father respond to even our most feeble prayers?

Marsha

[Walter Thompson]

I was trying hard to say what you did as you did. I didn't want to offend anyone either. I don't think it is necessarily true, the more you pray the more God will bless your ministry. If it was I would be pastoring a church of 5000. I am in constant prayer, it seems. I scarcely go anywhere with out praying all of the way.
Thanks Dave.

[BobHunt]

I only know that when we had sat evening prayer for Sunday services, the Lord seemed to really bless the services with His presence. Maybe somewould just say it was only our emotions, but we felt it was an answer to prayer.
And I know from experience that when I pray my whole outlook changes!

[Michael R. Gentry]

Interesting isn't it? One important thing the disciples asked Jesus ... "Lord, teach us to PRAY."

[Michael R. Gentry]

you wrote:[ The evidence and Scriptural support for lengthy fervent prayer is either fairly dubious in the first case or lacking in the second case. Now every good Jew 2000 years ago prayed. But they prayed for the coming of the Kingdom. The prayer that Jesus gave us to pray was also a thy-kingdom-come kind of prayer. If we are looking to Jesus for an example of long fervent praying, then it becomes awkward when he doesn't exactly ask the disciples to come w/ him, or pray while he is praying they are to keep watch. And so we have to come up w/ reasons for elevating prayer to a level that the NT does not give it. If I were to post a poll, I would be curious to find out what kinds of things our pastors, and their churches, pray for.


blessings,
adam


Yes, you are correct, Adam; but if we believe Jesus is our example in all things. He did elevate prayer to a place of importance ...

(1) on the occasion of the selection of His disciples Luke 6:12, says, "And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a ountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer"

(2) And also don't forget that at the beginning of his ministry he went into the wilderness and prayed and fasted for 40 days and nights.

I believe the reason that he did not say, "You must pray one hour, or four hours, or 8 hours, or spend all night in prayer once a month, etc., etc. was that if he had done that He would have been giving us another "law" that we would have to follow.

I believe our prayer life should be a reflection of our love for fellowship with Jesus. There are times my wife and I say very little when I get home from work ... that doesn't mean we don't talk, but our talking is at a minimum Other times there is so much going on and so much has happened that we need to share we may spend 1,2 or even 3 hours together talking and enjoying one anothers presence.
I feel the same in my relationship with Jesus. There are some days it seems when I start to pray ... best I can describe it ... He has been so close to me during the day ... that not a lot needs to be said. Other times when situations develop that are a heavy concern on my heart for direction and instuction, etc. just a few minutes is not enough. I must spend time reading, meditating on the word, and praying for an "extended" amount of time.

[Sharon Isley]

Hmmmm....what kinds of things do I pray for?

Most of my prayer is a cry for more of God, pouring out my heart's desire to know Him more. I take specific situations that I am struggling with, and ask Him to show me His will, His perspective on it. I ask for His guidance. I ask for His presence. I ask for His power to do His will.

There is of course confession. Most of that has to do with attitudes, more than actions.

I pray a lot for God's work in the church. I ask Him to help me know what His message is for His people this week. I ask Him to prepare the hearts of those that will hear the message, so they will hear what He is wanting them to say to them, specifically. And I ask Him to convict where that is needed, and to comfort where that is needed.

I ask God to use me, and our congregation, to bring the message of redemption to those who will never walk through our church's doors. I pray for open doors, a way to come in contact with those who are hurting and hopeless.

I pray for those who are sick, and who are in difficult circumstances. I tell God what I would like to have happen, but then tell Him that I know His will is best, He has a plan, and if my desires are out of line with His plan, to please help me to accept that.

I pray for my husband, and for my children. I ask that they grow deeper in their faith, and that they be protected. I thank God for such a wonderful family.

I pray for every member of my congregation, asking the same thing, and again thanking God for them.

And then, in my Bible reading, I use a computer program. As I read, I make notes, on whatever I believe is God's leading. This often turns into a dialogue between God and I, helping me to open my heart and mind to a personal application of God's word to my own life.

With all of this, it is unthinkable that I could get through it all, sincerely, in less than an hour. I could if I was merely making my way through a list. But this is me pouring my heart out to God every morning. Time isn't an issue.

[Adam Wallis]

Hello Mike, I believe we've meet before.

My premise "If we are looking to Jesus for an example of long fervent praying" was followed by a conclusion, "then it becomes awkward when he doesn't exactly ask the disciples to come w/ him, or pray while he is praying they are to keep watch." It has become characteristic of the way we read scripture that we pay less attention to what Jesus has actually taught people to do and say and we pay more attention to Jesus' "inner" life (ie. thought life, prayer life and personal dispositions.)

But since you mentioned them:
In 6.1 and 6.6, it is mentioned that there was "one sabbath" day. . . and "on another sabbath" when Jesus did some things that made some people mad. In 6.12 it says "in those days." (In what days? the sabbath days.) Every good Jew at the time prayed on the evening of the sabbath. But they also prayed at the temple or synagogue, and they prayed for the coming of the Kingdom of God. Jesus prayed on a mountain.

When the disciples asked Jesus to teach them to pray, the prayer he gave them is about 15 seconds long.

Jesus spending 40 days in the wilderness fasting and praying says much more about his identification w/ Israel and their history and less about his personal life. Does this sound plausible?

[Greg Gates]

I've enjoyed all the posts. I'll bet more good will come out of his tithing prayer time than not. But I don't believe a church is so easily renewed and revived by the Holy Ghost in Christ Jesus by just having the pastor pray more.

Obviously Pastor Gray feels that God has revealed this to him and I, like all of you, am grateful and inspired by his secret.

There are few things tougher than pastoring a church in the described circumstances. But since souls are in the balance...more power to ya.

[Michael R. Gentry]

Hello Mike, I believe we've meet before.

My premise "If we are looking to Jesus for an example of long fervent praying" was followed by a conclusion, "then it becomes awkward when he doesn't exactly ask the disciples to come w/ him, or pray while he is praying they are to keep watch." So, we don't pray? We just "keep watch." Keep watch for what?

It has become characteristic of the way we read scripture that we pay less attention to what Jesus has actually taught people to do and say and we pay more attention to Jesus' "inner" life (ie. thought life, prayer life and personal dispositions.) Ok, I guess I can only plead a ignorance and confusion as to what is meant here, but I will only ask, "What then did he actually teach us to do and say? Only to "watch for the kingdom?" Let me know, so I can either keep at it here, or resign, sell my house, and go somewhere to watch for His coming kingdom.:basic03

But since you mentioned them:
In 6.1 and 6.6, it is mentioned that there was "one sabbath" day. . . and "on another sabbath" when Jesus did some things that made some people mad. In 6.12 it says "in those days." (In what days? the sabbath days.) Every good Jew at the time prayed on the evening of the sabbath. But they also prayed at the temple or synagogue, and they prayed for the coming of the Kingdom of God. Jesus prayed on a mountain. I don't see what that has to do with his praying all night ... it would not matter if it were a Sabbath or a Tuesday ... he still went out and prayed all night. Did the Jews who prayed "on the Sabbath evenings pray all night too???" If they did, then this would not be an unusual thing, but did they just spend a short time in prayer instead, or do we know?

When the disciples asked Jesus to teach them to pray, the prayer he gave them is about 15 seconds long. Matthew 6:9, "After this MANNER therefore pray ye ..." It seems this was a guideline. Men have given us "manners" of prayer today Such as "ACTS": Adoration, Confession, Thanksgiving, Supplication. That is an example for us to follow.

Jesus spending 40 days in the wilderness fasting and praying says much more about his identification w/ Israel and their history and less about his personal life. Does this sound plausible?Granted there could be some scriptural symbolism here. for the number 40 occurs many times: 40 years in the wilderness, 40 days for Moses on the Mount, etc. It just seems to me that his time spent in prayer at the beginning of his ministry had to be more than just a symbolic gesture to the nation of Israel. But I could be wrong. Unfortunately scripturally we cannot prove it either way. Thus the challenge and pleasure of hermeneutical investigations and interpretations.



Actually Adam we have met ... at General Assembly in between workshops in one of the motels adjoining the Convention Center. You, your Dad Fred, myself and about 3 other fine fellows I forget at the moment spent a few moments visiting outside one of the workshop halls.

[Michael R. Gentry]

But I don't believe a church is so easily renewed and revived by the Holy Ghost in Christ Jesus by just having the pastor pray more.

Bro Greg:

I can't agree with you more. Even after all I have written, prayer alone by the pastor is not just the thing that will renew and revive the church. As people pray there is listening to God and responding in obedience. One thing we haven't mentioned much is that prayer is a "two-way" conversation. If we do nothing more than give God our "list" of things we want him to do we are missing 1/2 of the conversation. Fact is, it is not conversation at all, it is a monologue. If all we do is talk to God then we are doing nothing more than giving a speech to Him.

I will say that historically the great movements of Holy Ghost revival have apparently been the result of prayer, but absolutely not prayer alone ... obedience to God in all things.

If I merely pray, "God send a revival," or "God, let our Sunday School grow" and I do nothing to bring about cause and effect to my prayers, if I do not invite and speak to others ... then revival or growth will not come! It takes both God and us. In revival or growth I believe we need to call on God to soften and make the heart of the unsaved or backslidden to be prepared for the message of invitation to a service, or even to the Lord Jesus Christ in commitment.

Prayer alone will not, "bring the kingdom of God; it takes us doing our part in obedience.



We must unequivocally add the laymen need to pray too. It's not just the pastor's responsibility.

[Adam Wallis]

you asked: So, we don't pray? We just "keep watch." Keep watch for what?

I didn't say that. Thats pretty clear. But I did say that it becomes really awkward to use Jesus as an example of long fervent praying simply because he didn't ask anyone else to do it.

you wrote: Ok, I guess I can only plead a ignorance and confusion as to what is meant here, but I will only ask, "What then did he actually teach us to do and say? Only to "watch for the kingdom?" Let me know, so I can either keep at it here, or resign, sell my house, and go somewhere to watch for His coming kingdom.

Is this very nice? (The smiley doesnt really help) A simple "what do you mean?" would have worked.What I mean is, in all of the places where Jesus prayed, or even told his followers to pray, not one of those places tells of the importance of praying. Prayer was a given in the life of any regular Jew. If Jesus goes up to a mountain and "prays all through the night" we need not say "wow, he was a fervent praying man. . . maybe I/we should be too." We should instead see what context in scripture surrounds the prayer. The prayer on the mountain in Luke 9, for example, was not an expression of Jesus piety. It clearly places him in the same kind of setting as those of Moses and Elijah. So, instead of talking about how Jesus thought that praying was important, we should look at the contexts of Moses and Elijah and see what Luke was trying to say to a Jewish audience by writing this.

you wrote: I don't see what that has to do with his praying all night ... it would not matter if it were a Sabbath or a Tuesday ... he still went out and prayed all night. Did the Jews who prayed "on the Sabbath evenings pray all night too???" If they did, then this would not be an unusual thing, but did they just spend a short time in prayer instead, or do we know?

Yes, Jews prayed day and night for the Messiah particularly at the Temple. (they still do) The fact that Jesus did too would not have challenged them to develop their prayer life into a more fervent expression of their devotion to God.

you wrote:"After this MANNER therefore pray ye ..." It seems this was a guideline. Men have given us "manners" of prayer today Such as "ACTS": Adoration, Confession, Thanksgiving, Supplication. That is an example for us to follow.

But this manner has nothing to do w/ the length or prayer, as was the original substance of my comment. "ACTS" is not in scripture. That is a latter systematizing of aspects of Jesus' teaching. So, following "ACTS" is following a systematization and not the scripturel teachings themselves. Not saying its wrong or bad, just saying its not there.

You wrote: Granted there could be some scriptural symbolism here. for the number 40 occurs many times: 40 years in the wilderness, 40 days for Moses on the Mount, etc. It just seems to me that his time spent in prayer at the beginning of his ministry had to be more than just a symbolic gesture to the nation of Israel. But I could be wrong. Unfortunately scripturally we cannot prove it either way. Thus the challenge and pleasure of hermeneutical investigations and interpretations.

You speak of the inability to "prove" something either way in a much more post-modern fashion than I would have expected. Im not so sure that such an inability is so crippling. While we can not "prove" anything with scriptrue except that there is something called "a bible," that does not mean that we can get a very good idea of how a first century audience would have heard this kind of gospel. 40 days in the wilderness faithfully fasting and praying would strike a much larger note for the children of Israel (whose ancensters spent not just 40 years in the wilderness, but they went hungry, forgot who was their God on more than one occasion and fell into temptation.) Jesus is set from the beginning of this gospel as one who is begging to reverse the course of the history of Israel into one of redemption and faithfulness. That Jesus prayed and how often he prayed would not have impressed a devout Jewish community (no need to doubt their devotion) near as much as the circumstances surrouding his prayer such as what happened, what comes next in the gospel narrative and what Jesus prays about.

blessings.

adam

[Michael R. Gentry]

While we can not "prove" anything with scriptrue except that there is something called "a bible."

adam


I'm not even sure we can prove there is a bible by using Scripture.


It was man, hopefully led by the Holy Spirit, who determined what was in what we call a Bible. In Discovering the New Testament by Alex Varughese, Editor; Beacon Hill Press of Kansas City, 2005. Mr. Varughese states, "that we find these 27 books (speaking of the New Testament), no fewer and no more, listed as the New Testament is in AD 367." And that by Anathansius, bishop of Alexandria, Egypt (p.32). The Synod of Carthage in AD 397 was apparently the date in which the "canon was closed" (p.33).

In 2nd Timothy 3:15-16a where Paul writes to his disciple Timothy, it does say, "... and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness ..." This was written well before there was any New Testament canon accepted. Would this not have been referring to what we call the "Old Testament" today?

[Michael R. Gentry]

Adam,

Please forgive me for the way I answered in the post above, the way it sounded when I reread it, you were totally correct, "it was not nice."


Just a personal note and I will cease my posting here, at least for a time.

I have spent all night in prayer on several occasions, but not at all because of the example of Jesus. It was because of situations in my family life, church life, or personal decision times that I felt it necessary. When I started praying (which included prayer, Bible reading, hymn reading, and a lot of other things which aided that time with God), I did not say, "I will spend all night praying," but it ended up that way. I prayed until I felt the need had been met or direction to me had been given. It was during times that I did not feel comfortable seeking human direction, but felt I needed the power, wisdom, and direction of God in my mind and life..

I have fasted and prayed, again not at all because of the example of Jesus, but because it seems to add a special dimension to my life spiritually and brings God's presence into my life like nothing else does.

Thanks so much Adam for your comments and exchanges. I believe God will richly bless you in your ministry for Him.

[Adam Wallis]

The statement was only meant to say that we can not prove any claims of scripture by using scripture. We can only say "this thing in my hand is a bible." Im aware of the difference between canon, scripture, inspired writings and a bible.

adam

[Adam Wallis]

Thank you Mike,

I hope that you dont receive my comments in a way that devalues prayer in any way. That is not my intention. My concern is to read scripture faithfully.

continued blessings.

adam

[Pete Vecchi]

Number of hours in a week: 168

To "tithe" one's time in prayer would be 1008 minutes per week.

That is a very worthy use of time, because God has told us in the Bible that we should pray, and the principle of tithing money certainly can, I believe, be used to encourage 10% of time prayer as it is used to encourage 10% financial giving.

At the same time, God has told us in the Bible that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, we should maintain proper care of our bodies. This includes eating properly, getting adequate exercise, getting the proper amount of rest, and using good hygine.

Let's be conservative and say that to eat properly (preparing and eating the right kind of food, chewing it sufficiently to allow for maximum digestive efficiency) takes 90 minutes per day. That's 630 minutes per week.

The generally accepted guideline for the proper amount of sleep each person should get to operate at maximum efficiency is 8 hours per night. That's 3360 minutes per week.

For hygine (including the necessities) let's conservatively say 20 minutes total throughout the day. That's 140 minutes per week.

Finally for care of our bodies, let's look at exercise. Let's say 30 minutes per day for that, which comes out to 180 minutes per week.

Why only 180 minutes instead of 210? Because we must remember another important Biblical principle--that of the Sabbath Day of rest. So we will not include exercise time on the Sabbath.

Speaking of the Sabbath, the Bible tells us that it is to be used for rest and worship. Taking off the 480 minutes we've already allocated for sleep plus the 155 minutes (in round figures) we've allocated for prayer time, this leaves 453 minutes of Sabbath time that we should use for nothing but rest and worship.

The Biblical principle of Sabbath tells us that we should rest one day in seven from our everyday labors. This (along with other Biblical mandates telling us that we should regularly work) means that we should therefore have everyday labors. Although 40 hours per week isn't set as a Biblical standard, I don't believe that the Bible sets a specific universal standard, so let's use the "standard" U.S. 40-hour-per week schedule as a guideline. That's 2400 minutes. In addition, the average commute time to work in the U.S. is somewhat over 20 minutes per day one way. For 5 round-trips per week that is another 200 minutes.

Now, let's move on to what the Bible tells us should be our most important earthly relationship--marriage. If I should be spending 1008 minutes per week in communion with our Lord through prayer, and if the Bible shows us that the husband-wife relationship should mirror the relationship between myself and God, it therefore stands to reason that I should devote as much time in communion with my spouse as I do in communion with God (especially so since personal communion with God involves a perfect God communicating with an imperfect human, while the marriage relationship involves two imperfect humans communicating). So add 1008 minutes per week for time with spouse.

Of course there is also the relationship that parents are Biblically told to have with their children, bringing them up in the way they should go. This also takes time--probably more time for more children. But let's just use the same number for time with children (regardless whether there is one child or more than one child in the family) that we used for time with God and time with spouse. That's an additional 1008 minutes per week.

Now, let's not forget that we are "good" Nazarenes, and "good" Nazarenes are supposed to attend mid-week service on Wednesdays. Let's conservatively allow another 60 minutes per week for that.

What do we then learn when we attend church on Sundays and Wednesdays? Part of what we learn undoubtedly centers around what we should be doing as Christians. One thing I've often heard in church is that every Christian should have a daily devotional time with God. Another thing I've heard is that Bible study and prayer are two different things. This means that the 1008 minutes per week in prayer shouldn't include time for studying the Bible; we should put in additional Bible study time. Let's say 30 minutes per day for Bible Study, or 180 minutes per week (again, counting only 6 days per week, figuring that part of the 453 minutes of the Sabbath day time can be used in Bible study).

In church, we also should be learning that we should spend time helping people with their needs. Let's just say one hour per week for helping others, or 60 minutes per week.

We are also taught in church that we should be witnessing to other people so that they will come to know Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Again, let's add one hour, or 60 minutes per week for that.

If we now do the math, we can see how we should be spending 10,747 minutes of our week every week.

Unfortunately, 10,747 minutes per week comes out to over 25 1/2 hours per day.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Something seems to not quite work out here.

[Ian Gentles]

I pray AM and PM and all points in between. This thread made me think about how much I did pray, and was quite surprised to find I prayed a lot! I find myself praying at all times and everywhere.
Two points:

1 I noticed I pray more whem i'm facing difficulties...is this good?
2 I kinda chat to the Lord type of prayer...is this good?

One other point, how much do folks pray for the pastors etc?

[Neal Gray]

Pete,

Good afternoon in the Awesome Name of our Lord Jesus Christ!

I loved your time analysis! Made me smile! :basic03 Thanks!

Neal
__________________
Dr. Neal Gray • Pastor
Parkville Church of the Nazarene
8510 Fowler Ave
Baltimore, Maryland 21234
(410) 661-7096
pastor@parkvillenazarene.org
www.parkvillenazarene.org (http://www.parkvillenazarene.org)
http://www.ParkvilleNazarene.org/images/fish2.gif

[Pete Vecchi]

Thanks, Neal.

If it made someone smile it had its desired effect!

:basic05

[Neal Gray]

http://www.parkvillenazarene.org/images/phm_logo.jpg
Prayer—the Christian's Secret Weapon

(Part 1 of 4)


Introduction

Opening

What did Jesus do? Among His great acts, Jesus PRAYED! So, Christians, among the acts of our lives, we ought to pray often, too. This is the “Secret Weapon” for successful living. Truth is, the regular, daily, sustained, lengthy prayer should be no secret for any Christian!

Jesus says that we ought always to pray, e.g., “Watch and pray,” (see Matthew 26:41; Mark 13:33). The Apostle Paul says to “pray without ceasing,” (1 Thessalonians 5:17). And James says that much of our asking is wrongly motivated, and "you have not because you ask not," (see James 4:2-3).

Yet if your experience matches mine, the one area in your Christian life in which you are constantly shot down in flames is your prayer life.

How do you explain that? Why is it that what appears to be the easiest thing in the world to do, is actually the most difficult for dedicated Christians to do?

I have some theories about this problem of having a real prayer life that I will share with you in a moment.

Scripture

But first, let's read a short passage in Luke chapter five, verses 12-16, noticing especially verse 16."And it came to pass, when he was in a certain city, behold a man full of leprosy: who seeing Jesus fell on his face, and besought Him, saying, 'Lord, if Thou wilt, Thou canst make me clean.'
"And He put forth His hand, and touched him, saying, 'I will: be thou clean.' And immediately the leprosy departed from him. And He charged him to 'tell no man: but go, and show thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.'
"But so much the more went there a fame abroad of Him: and great multitudes came together to hear, and to be healed by Him of their infirmities. And He withdrew himself into the wilderness, and prayed."
Satanic Force Against Prayer

Just So You Don't Pray

Now, here's the reason that your prayer life keeps getting shot down in flames.

I suggest that it is NOT the product of an accident; BUT it is the product of satanic effort. To be specific…
Satan does not mind if you read the Bible, just so you don't pray, because......then reading IT WILL NEVER TRANSFORM YOUR LIFE. It may even give you a severe case of spiritual pride because you know it so well.
Satan does not mind if you share your faith, just so you don't pray, because......he knows if you don't that IT IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT TO TALK TO GOD ABOUT MEN than it is to talk to men about God.
Satan does not mind if you become neurotically involved in the ministry of a local church, just so you don't pray, because......then you will be active but YOU REALLY WON'T BE ACCOMPLISHING THAT MUCH. You see, Satan has methods. And one of his greatest methods is TO KEEP YOU AND ME OFF OUR KNEES. To help discover why prayer—the Christian's secret weapon—is so important, I would like to ask THREE main questions:
What Did Christ Do in His Life on Earth? (please read Part 2 of 4)


What Is Christ Doing Now in Heaven? (please read Part 3 of 4)


What Does Christ Desire to Do IN You? (please read Part 4 of 4)

(continued in the next post)

__________________
Dr. Neal Gray • Pastor
Parkville Church of the Nazarene
8510 Fowler Ave
Baltimore, Maryland 21234
(410) 661-7096
pastor@parkvillenazarene.org
www.parkvillenazarene.org (http://www.parkvillenazarene.org)
http://www.parkvillenazarene.org/images/fish2.gif

[Neal Gray]

http://www.parkvillenazarene.org/images/phm_logo.jpg
Prayer—the Christian's Secret Weapon

(Part 2 of 4)


What Did Christ Do in His Life on Earth?

Introduction

The first question is: "What did Christ do in His life on earth?" I'll tell you the answer, too. I believe that the life of Christ on earth was A LIFE OF PRAYER.

Jesus Is the Beloved Son of the Father

In fact, I would like to recommend a study that could revolutionize your prayer life.

Study the Gospels, particularly the Gospel of Luke, to examine Christ's prayer life. There are 15 occasions in which Jesus Christ prayed that are recorded in the Gospels, and 11 of those occasions occur in the Gospel of Luke. St. Luke shows us that Jesus Christ lived His life on earth dependently through prayer.

I don't know of anything that has changed my life more dramatically than this study, which begins with Luke 3:21-22 at Jesus' baptism. This is when Jesus began His messianic work. Verse 22 says, "Thou art My beloved Son, whom I love; in Thee I am well pleased."

Three times in the Gospels, we hear the remarkable statement, "This is My beloved Son in whom I find all of My pleasure." Why is that true? God found all of His pleasure in the Son because the Son found all of His pleasure in doing the Father's will.

And a major part of doing the Father's will is to come to Him in prayer. Jesus did, and He expects that you will do it, too.

Withdraw and Pray

There are two aspects of Christian ministry; be it my ministry as a Pastor, or your ministry to your family. Two aspects:
One is involvement with people, and,
The other is isolation from people.If you spend all of your time around people, you no longer impact them because you have lost the source of your power. That is why 12 times in the Gospels, Jesus takes the disciples away to a solitary place and teaches them the strategic importance of prayer.

Luke 5:16 says, "And He withdrew himself into the wilderness, and prayed." This is the secret of His ministry. Show me a man or a woman who is effective in public, and I will show you a person who is more effective in private.

Pray About Important Events

In your prayer life, God invites you to pray about the very important events of your life. Jesus did, and you should, too.

For example, at the beginning of Jesus' ministry, He prayed all night about the choice of His disciples.

"And it came to pass in those days, that He went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God. And when it was day, He called unto Him His disciples: and of them He chose twelve, whom also He named apostles," (Luke 6:12-13). He prayed. God answered. Jesus went forth to do the Father's will.

Another time is at the end of Jesus' ministry, during the time when He prayed to His Father in the Garden of Gethsemane, "Saying, Father, if Thou be willing, remove this cup from Me: nevertheless not My will, but Thine, be done," (Luke 22:42).

It is the "nevertheless" phrase that is the key to praying. We pray, not to tell God our will so that He will do it. We pray to find out His will, so that we can go out and do that!

Hear Him

Continuing on in this amazing catalog of Christ's prayer life, let's consider the story of Christ's Transfiguration. "He took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray," (Luke 9:28b). On that mountain, a voice said, "This is My beloved Son: hear Him," (9:35b).

Hear Him!!! That's God's instruction to Peter, John, and Jimmy. That's His instruction to you and to me, too.

I once read a fascinating study by Harvard Business Review. It said the average executive spends 70 percent of his time listening—the one skill for which he receives no training! It's easy to teach people how to speak. It's very difficult to teach them how to listen.

And by the way, have you looked in the mirror lately? Did you notice you have two ears but only one mouth? Imagine if God had reversed that!

How do you hear God? You come regularly, daily, to Him in prayer.

They Kept Finding Him on His Knees

One more example of what Christ did on this earth. Really, it is more what the disciples did. Luke tells us: "And it came to pass, that, as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, one of His disciples said unto Him, `Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.'" (Luke 11:1)
That is the only thing the disciples ever asked Jesus to teach them. Why?

I'll tell you why. Every single time they found Him, where did they find Him? On His knees praying!

Would anybody ever ask you to teach them to pray because they discovered you spent so much of your time on your knees and that was the secret of your life?

Christ Prayed

Now we can see, after going through this quick study, that Jesus Christ prayed about everything. Prayer pervaded His life from beginning to end.

He prayed about ordinary occasions, He prayed about extraordinary occasions. He prayed in public, He prayed in private. He prayed about common activities like eating bread and beginning a meal, and He prayed about crises such as the choice of His disciples.

Prayer was not peripheral; it was absolutely paramount to Jesus' life. It was not a part of His life; it was His life. The Scriptures teach that even Jesus, the Son of God, found it necessary to pray, and to make prayer an integral part of His life.


(continued in the next post)


Click here to read Part 1
Click here to read Part 2
Click here to read Part 3
Click here to read Part 4

__________________
Dr. Neal Gray • Pastor
Parkville Church of the Nazarene
8510 Fowler Ave
Baltimore, Maryland 21234
(410) 661-7096
pastor@parkvillenazarene.org
www.parkvillenazarene.org (http://www.parkvillenazarene.org)
http://www.parkvillenazarene.org/images/fish2.gif

[Neal Gray]

http://www.parkvillenazarene.org/images/phm_logo.jpg
Prayer—the Christian's Secret Weapon

(Part 3 of 4)


What Is Christ Doing Now in Heaven?

Introduction

The second question is, "What is Christ doing now in Heaven?" Good question, I think. The answer can be found in two passages of Scripture.

Jesus Is Interceding for You

The first is Hebrews 7. The theme of Hebrews is the superiority of Jesus Christ. He is superior to the prophets, He is superior to the angels, He is superior to Moses, and He is superior in His covenant.

What's the matter with the Old Testament covenants? Their priesthood has ended; but Jesus' priesthood is a permanent one.

"Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them." (Hebrews 7:25) Every time you pray, you need to remember you are entering a prayer meeting that is going on 24 hours a day. And what is Jesus praying for? HE IS PRAYING FOR YOU! I'm not talking about generally; I'm talking about specifically. If you have no one else to pray for you, Christ is. You can count on it. Do people ever ask you, "Would you pray for me?"

What is your response?

"Yes, sure. I'll pray." But later, are you honest enough to say, "Oops, I forgot to pray"?
That is why I have come to the place where if anyone who asks, "Will you pray for me, Pastor?" that I like say, "Yes, let's pray right now." If I pray now, I have a better chance of remembering it later.

Do you ever have a "senior moment"? Even at my age, (and I've been around the Sun only 50 times!), I'm having "senior moments" with my memory. Whatever the reason, we all have a built-in ability to forget. But, but, but…Jesus never forgets.

The Holy Spirit Ministers for Us!

The second passage telling us what Jesus is doing now in Heaven is Romans 8:26-28. In light of this passage, I have seen God do the most incredible things when I was not equipped to pull them off. When I cannot pray well, the Holy Spirit steps in and interceeds for me! Thank You, Lord!

You would not believe some of the decisions I have to make, particularly in counseling our parishioners, other friends, and people I love deeply. They call me up in desperate situations, and they ask for my counsel. They need it right now. And I have to send up a sky telegram and say, "Lord, help me to help my brother, my sister in Christ. I don't know what to tell them."

Have you come to the place in your prayer life where you don't even know how to say the words because you're so weak? You don't even know how to express your thoughts because of your lack of understanding of the Scriptures at that particular time? And so you say, "Lord, You're going to have to work in me and through me."

But here's the exciting thing: The Holy Spirit is a specialist on the will of God. And He is perfectly capable of revealing it to you.

So what is the bottom line?
Our representative in Heaven is Christ, and,
His representative in us is the Holy Spirit,and,
He is able to take the feebleness of our understanding and of our willingness to believe and turn it into overwhelming strength!Dependence on the Holy Spirit is what transformed my life when I first entered into the pastorate.

I would do what I thought I should do. Some of it was good, some wasn't. But almost all of it was done in my own strength.

And you know what happened? I went home Sunday after Sunday, discouraged. Monday I would wake up despondent. Tuesday I would be desperate.

That is, until I learned the lesson that I give to you today: GOD IS IN CONTROL. All that He wants me to do is to hear Him, obey Him, and help Him do His will. Beloved, please write it down: All that He wants you to do is to HEAR HIM, OBEY HIM, AND HELP HIM DO HIS WILL. And the Lord has given us His Spirit to help us hear, obey, and help.

So if you don't have anyone to pray for you, never forget that Christ Jesus is praying for YOU, every hour of the day. And if you're too weak, too ill, too limited, too frustrated, or too confused, then the Holy Spirit will bring order out of the chaos in your heart and express the depths of your heart to God, (see Romans 8:26-27).

(continued in the next post)


Click here to read Part 1
Click here to read Part 2
Click here to read Part 3
Click here to read Part 4

__________________
Dr. Neal Gray • Pastor
Parkville Church of the Nazarene
8510 Fowler Ave
Baltimore, Maryland 21234
(410) 661-7096
pastor@parkvillenazarene.org
www.parkvillenazarene.org (http://www.parkvillenazarene.org)
http://www.parkvillenazarene.org/images/fish2.gif

[Neal Gray]

http://www.parkvillenazarene.org/images/phm_logo.jpg
Prayer—the Christian's Secret Weapon

(Part 4 of 4)


What Does Christ Desire to Do IN You?

Introduction

The third question is, "What does Christ desire to do IN you?"

Christ In You

Ephesians 3:17 says, "That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love...." This phrase, "dwell in your hearts" means, "be completely at home."

For years I used to ponder over that verse. What is the apostle Paul talking about?

He's talking about a group of Christians; Christ already lives in their hearts. And he uses a very unique word for "dwelling." It's not the ordinary word. It means to make yourself at home. Christ Jesus makes His home within you, friend!

Is Christ at home in your heart? That's what He wants. He's not going to intrude; He's not going to take advantage. He just wants you to make yourself at home and relax. And Jesus wants to make Himself at home and relax in you. Christ in you! That's all He wants. I welcome Christ Jesus to sit in the best seat I have to offer in my heart! (see Revelation 3:20) We can literally enjoy the presence of Jesus, even while living here on this Earth.

Enjoy Life with Christ

And I mean, "enjoy." I think that many of us are going to get home to Heaven, and God is going to say, "I'm really sorry you didn't enjoy it more on Earth. I never intended it to be that grim. I was there all along for you, but you seldom quieted down long enough for Me to speak to you."

In Colossians 1:27, Jesus explains the mystery of "Christ in you, the hope of glory." Christ is in you, with all of your limitations, with all of your problems, with all of your giftedness.

The more Christ makes His home in your heart, the more of the characteristics of Christ will be produced in your life. And perhaps the most significant one will be your prayer life.

Conclusion

Is It Worth Doing?

So now I'm asking you another question. It's the same question I'm asking myself. "If you can do anything without prayer, is it really worth doing?"

For me, I can't possibly be a Pastor without prayer. I simply cannot do it. And, truth be known, I can't do it with just my prayer alone. I need the prayers of many people from our church, and other people from around the world, and Jesus' prayers for me from Heaven!!!

Things are good at our Church. I believe the spiritual impact of our ministry is growing. Why? It's certainly not me. It's not even our worthy lay ministers. It's God. Out of His grace, He is blessing us. Why is the Lord blessing us? Because we are IN RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM!

God is not our "order taker," nor our "needs supplier," nor our "help me now that I'm in trouble, Lord!" But rather, He is our eternal Father, our Savior, our Friend, our soon-coming King, and the Bridegroom of this, His Church.

That's humbling, and it has driven me to my knees like nothing ever has. I want to be in His will because I want His blessing on this ministry to continue and increase. Why? For my fame and glory? "No!" I say 1,000 times, "No!" But, here is why I covet the Lord's blessings:
That God would be glorified by His people bearing fruit in His name, (see John 15:8), and,
The Jesus would be able to present to Himself a church that is holy, without spot or wrinkle, (see Ephesians 5:25-27).Now, aren't those good reasons to invest in prayer? Hmmm? (Yes/No ____ )

Pray, Pray, Pray

Finally, I admit it: while things are good, it's also true that things are tough at our Church. I can discern that the forces of evil are marshalled together to try to shut us down; they don't want us to be a holy Church of Jesus Christ; they don't want any of us to be a holy people.

What do we do? We follow the "tenor" of Scripture, which is summed up in this passage:"Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; and for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak." (Ephesians 6:16-20)
So God wants me, you, and all Christians to pray. And as for me and my house, we shall pray regularly, daily, with sustained, lengthy, and fervent prayers. And as for me and Jesus' Church where I serve, we shall fulfill the Lord's will for His people by being known as "God's House of Prayer," (see Isaiah 56:7; Matthew 21:13; Mark 11:17; Luke 19:6).

Godspeed to all Christians who desire to be in Jesus' presence.

Amen.

______________________

Click here to read Part 1
Click here to read Part 2
Click here to read Part 3
Click here to read Part 4
______________________


Neal
http://www.parkvillenazarene.org/images/drngray.jpg
__________________
Dr. Neal Gray • Pastor
Parkville Church of the Nazarene
8510 Fowler Ave
Baltimore, Maryland 21234
(410) 661-7096
pastor@parkvillenazarene.org
www.parkvillenazarene.org (http://www.parkvillenazarene.org)
http://www.parkvillenazarene.org/images/fish2.gif

[Neal Gray]

From the 18th century, a quote from a saint on prayer and the Holy Spirit:

"O my Savior, I say to Thee again with more insistence than ever: Teach me to pray; implant in me all the dispositions needful for the prayer of the Holy Spirit.

"Make me humble, simple, and docile; may I do all that is in my own power to become so.

"Of what use is my prayer if the Holy Spirit does not pray with me? Come, Holy Spirit, come to dwell and work within me! Take possession of my understanding and of my will; govern my actions not only at the moment of prayer, but at every moment. I cannot glorify God nor sanctify myself save by Thee."

— Jean-Nicolas Grou (1750)

[Billy Cox]

"Of what use is my prayer if the Holy Spirit does not pray with me? Come, Holy Spirit, come to dwell and work within me! Take possession of my understanding and of my will; govern my actions not only at the moment of prayer, but at every moment. I cannot glorify God nor sanctify myself save by Thee."[/I]

— Jean-Nicolas Grou (1750)


Wait a minute... That sounds suspiciously like the 'pray without ceasing method' which is just an excuse for not doing 'real' prayer.

[Gina Stevenson]

Wait a minute... That sounds suspiciously like the 'pray without ceasing method' which is just an excuse for not doing 'real' prayer.

Billy, how dare you suggest that we should "pray without ceasing!?" ;)
[sounds like you may have voted in the category I did]

[Billy Cox]

Billy, how dare you suggest that we should "pray without ceasing!?" ;)
[sounds like you may have voted in the category I did]

Yeah, I knew that would give away my vote.

To say that 'praying without ceasing' is a 'method' betrays the bias of the poll.

When conversations about prayer center on what 'we' do (or don't do) we are just like the Pharisees who gloried in their prayer life yet were very much lost and out of touch with the heart of God.

[Ian Robertson]

Neal,

I love your passion, and your willingness to share with others how God has led you in the ministry of prayer. I believe that prayer is not just preparation for ministry, but is ministry itself.

That same Dr. Porter, who inspired you about prayer, recently challenged me to double the number of disciples and attendance in our congregation over the next twelve months. I didn't take this as a "universal" challenge for every pastor, but I did sense God used Dr. Porter to speak to me. If our attendance goes from 1000 to 2000 in one year, we'll give God the glory... and if it takes five years, the glory will still be the Lord's.

You may also have put in an argument for verbal inspiration! Hendricks, a professor at a Baptist Seminary, is quoting you word for word in an article, even using the same outline and title, Prayer - The Christian's Secret Weapon. You can check it out at https://secure.dts.edu/utility/file.aspx?id=81

Hallelujah, I say. The Baptists probably need this message also. We don't hold a copyright or a monopoly on what Jesus said.

[Gina Stevenson]

Hey, Pete! Perhaps it's the "career" pastor who can do this, while doing nothing else. You've got extra things to do when a bivocational pastor, so don't feel badly ... you can just be part of the "pray without ceasing" contingent ... praying as your manage that car wash, eh! ;)

blessings! :rolleyes:

Number of hours in a week: 168

To "tithe" one's time in prayer would be 1008 minutes per week.
..... [middle clipped] .....
Unfortunately, 10,747 minutes per week comes out to over 25 1/2 hours per day.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Something seems to not quite work out here.

[Neal Gray]

Neal, I love your passion, and your willingness to share with others how God has led you in the ministry of prayer. I believe tha