Moving On

[Shea Zellweger]

This fall, I'll be starting classes at Andover Newton Theological Seminary in Newton, MA. My resignation at Millry has been accepted by the board, and the moving truck is booked for May 10. We're very excited to be getting back to the Northeast, and I hope to be meeting plenty of my fellow NazNetters, even that cranky ol' Jim Chabot :)

[Rich Schmidt]

Congratulations! :)

[Marsha Lynn]

This fall, I'll be starting classes at Andover Newton Theological Seminary in Newton, MA. My resignation at Millry has been accepted by the board, and the moving truck is booked for May 10. We're very excited to be getting back to the Northeast, and I hope to be meeting plenty of my fellow NazNetters, even that cranky ol' Jim Chabot :)

Ah, that's the answer. I noticed your "in transition" location and wondered what the story was. Thanks for sharing. Hope all goes well with the move and new adventure. What happens between May and August?

[Shea Zellweger]

Ah, that's the answer. I noticed your "in transition" location and wondered what the story was. Thanks for sharing. Hope all goes well with the move and new adventure. What happens between May and August?

We (my wife and I) start work. A friend has offered us temporary positions in his company until we can find something a bit more permanent.

[Gina Stevenson]

We (my wife and I) start work. A friend has offered us temporary positions in his company until we can find something a bit more permanent.

Bet we can guess which "friend" this is, since posts about employment aren't usually considered, "Funny," Dennis! ;)

[Shea Zellweger]

We (my wife and I) start work. A friend has offered us temporary positions in his company until we can find something a bit more permanent.


Bet we can guess which "friend" this is, since posts about employment aren't usually considered, "Funny," Dennis! ;)

Especially since I didn't even offer him any compliments :). Yes, it's Dennis.

[David Parker]

From Alabama to Massachusetts....yeah, that should be an easy transition....:smilies1722:

[Shea Zellweger]

From Alabama to Massachusetts....yeah, that should be an easy transition....:smilies1722:

Far, Far easier than the other way around. at least for us. It's pretty much a home coming for us.
Now, what will NOT be easy is doing it with an almost 2 year old who is quite precocious (read: has entered the "terrible twos" early)

[Jim Chabot]

This fall, I'll be starting classes at Andover Newton Theological Seminary in Newton, MA. My resignation at Millry has been accepted by the board, and the moving truck is booked for May 10. We're very excited to be getting back to the Northeast, and I hope to be meeting plenty of my fellow NazNetters, even that cranky ol' Jim Chabot :)

Cranky? Who says I'm cranky?

Wait a minute here, did YOU say I was cranky?:)

No, no, no, you musta said yankee. Yea thats it yankee, spell check must have missed it sense cranky is a word. Ok now I get it. No problem!

[Jim Chabot]

From Alabama to Massachusetts....yeah, that should be an easy transition....:smilies1722:

Of course it is, we like everybody up here. Just ask anybody!

[Mike Wooldridge]

Of course it is, we like everybody up here. Just ask anybody!
That's 'cuz it's TAXachusetts!

[Shea Zellweger]

Of course it is, we like everybody up here. Just ask anybody!

I would do that, if I didn't expect to receive answers unprintable on NazNet :D. Good ol' rude Northeast.

[Gina Stevenson]

Of course it is, we like everybody up here. Just ask anybody!

Uh, shall we ask the guy who totally ignored me when I was asking for something years ago in the good old Northeast, just b/c I used the wrong [midwestern] name for it? Yeah, it was like he could not even hear me, tho' I repeated myself a couple of times with just a wee bit more volume than the time before, in case he'd not heard me. Then suddenly when I recalled a friend who lived there telling me that it's not "pop" as we were used to in Michigan, but "soda," he suddenly heard reeeeeeeally well, and put his newspaper down that he'd been hiding behind as I asked him a few times where the "pop" was located in his little store. [rarely drink the stuff now, but I did a bit more back then, and it was a hot day ....]


I would do that, if I didn't expect to receive answers unprintable on NazNet :D. Good ol' rude Northeast.

Right ... "good ol' rude Northeast." [see my note of explanation just before yours, Shea]

[Karen Troxler]

Actually my experience here in the northeast has been different. When we were getting ready to move from the Pittsburgh area to here over 4 years ago, I had people tell me to watch out for those "cold, New Englanders." Well I have found New Englanders to be friendlier than many of the people in my old area (no offense meant towards anyone there). I am not just referring to Nazarene Christians but to store clerks, bank tellers, etc. I love it here!

[Jim Abrams]

Hhhuuummmm ....... Shea's relocation to Massachusetts ..... That's New England District ..... are they not looking for a new District Superintendent? Coincidence or has it been predestined? Just musing.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

I would do that, if I didn't expect to receive answers unprintable on NazNet :D. Good ol' rude Northeast.

I usually respond to statements about the northeast like this by saying, "At least I know what people really think about me up here!"

While I say it somewhat jokingly, I also mean it. When we first moved to Kansas City in the Midwest, I was amazed at the smiles and politeness of the people. But after a few months it began to feel very plasticky. So while New Englanders may not be as polite or socially courteous as many, I find them to at least be more real without the pretension. And the flipside is true, too - those New Englanders who are good friends, are really, really good friends.

[Shea Zellweger]

Hhhuuummmm ....... Shea's relocation to Massachusetts ..... That's New England District ..... are they not looking for a new District Superintendent? Coincidence or has it been predestined? Just musing.

If I'd only been ordained...


I usually respond to statements about the northeast like this by saying, "At least I know what people really think about me up here!"

While I say it somewhat jokingly, I also mean it. When we first moved to Kansas City in the Midwest, I was amazed at the smiles and politeness of the people. But after a few months it began to feel very plasticky. So while New Englanders may not be as polite or socially courteous as many, I find them to at least be more real without the pretension. And the flipside is true, too - those New Englanders who are good friends, are really, really good friends.

I agree with this assessment. New Englanders are generally less afraid to be honest/genuine. It would be nice if their honesty came with a little bit of tact, but I do like the honesty.

[Gary Creely]

Boston is sorta the apex of "northeastness", I enjoyed my years there and came to appreciate the finer points of the angry stare. I find PA to be a kinder gentler north east, that may be because it is not technically the north east (mid-atlantic). I think most of us from PA would self identify as from the north east though.

[Shea Zellweger]

Boston is sorta the apex of "northeastness", I enjoyed my years there and came to appreciate the finer points of the angry stare. I find PA to be a kinder gentler north east, that may be because it is not technically the north east (mid-atlantic). I think most of us from PA would self identify as from the north east though.

And people from Virginia self-identify with the south, but real Southerners don't want them. Get your Pennsylvania out of my Northeast, Creely!

[Rich Schmidt]

Boston is sorta the apex of "northeastness", I enjoyed my years there and came to appreciate the finer points of the angry stare. I find PA to be a kinder gentler north east, that may be because it is not technically the north east (mid-atlantic). I think most of us from PA would self identify as from the north east though.

Is "northeast" synonymous with "New England"? If so, then PA and NY are both out. Only Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island make the cut.

[Linda Bechtold]

Of course it is, we like everybody up here. Just ask anybody!

Just because they like you doesn't mean they have to speak to you!!

[Shea Zellweger]

Is "northeast" synonymous with "New England"? If so, then PA and NY are both out. Only Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island make the cut.

No, the line is generally drawn below New York. So Eastern PA and NJ are Mid-Atlantic. Western PA according to some is Mid-Atlantic, while others seem to think it's a part of the midwest. That depends more on how you classify WV.

[Rich Schmidt]

No, the line is generally drawn below New York. So Eastern PA and NJ are Mid-Atlantic. Western PA according to some is Mid-Atlantic, while others seem to think it's a part of the midwest. That depends more on how you classify WV.

Hmm.... I did a little more Googling... and it appears that the US Census Bureau includes PA and NJ in the "Northeast."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeastern_United_States

[Cam Pence]

congrats dude,
i know you will do well

[Shea Zellweger]

Hmm.... I did a little more Googling... and it appears that the US Census Bureau includes PA and NJ in the "Northeast."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeastern_United_States

If you scroll down to the list of Geographic regions, it appears that their classification of "Northeast" is grouped along with "West," "Midwest," and "South," each with two or three subdivisions (or you can go here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Census_Bureau#Census_regions_and_div isions)). It looks like each of their four major divisions, as well as most of the subdivisions, include states that would object to being classified as such. Last I knew, Texas didn't really want to be considered "the South," so much as they wanted to be Texas (dang texans), and the friends I have in both Colorado and Wisconsin have objected pretty strongly to the "Midwest" label.

[Benjamin Burch]

If you scroll down to the list of Geographic regions, it appears that their classification of "Northeast" is grouped along with "West," "Midwest," and "South," each with two or three subdivisions (or you can go here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Census_Bureau#Census_regions_and_div isions)). It looks like each of their four major divisions, as well as most of the subdivisions, include states that would object to being classified as such. Last I knew, Texas didn't really want to be considered "the South," so much as they wanted to be Texas (dang texans), and the friends I have in both Colorado and Wisconsin have objected pretty strongly to the "Midwest" label.

How can Wisconsin object to the "Midwest" label? I've been there. I have family there. It's midwest.

[Shea Zellweger]

How can Wisconsin object to the "Midwest" label? I've been there. I have family there. It's midwest.

I don't know "how," I just know they do. Something about being "the North."

[Rich Schmidt]

How can Wisconsin object to the "Midwest" label? I've been there. I have family there. It's midwest.

I think Shea's making it up. My wife's whole family is from Wisconsin, and still lives there. I've never heard any of them object to Wisconsin being considered part of the Midwest.

[Shea Zellweger]

I think Shea's making it up. My wife's whole family is from Wisconsin, and still lives there. I've never heard any of them object to Wisconsin being considered part of the Midwest.

Maybe my wife is just weird then :p.
Edited to add: As is her family.

[Jim Chabot]

And people from Virginia self-identify with the south, but real Southerners don't want them. Get your Pennsylvania out of my Northeast, Creely!

Way to go Shea! Your going to fit right back in again, no practice needed!

A pastor friend of mine took a church in Columbus, GA a dozen or so years back. He said that the southerners would drive him half crazy with their polite conversation. He said that a conversation that would take five minutes up here would use up an hour down there. He told me that people would come to him and spend nearly a half an hour in pleasantries before getting to the point that he already knew brought them there. He said that there were many occasions when he suppressed the urge to shout "spit it out".

I will take rude and truthful any day of the week! Although I do try my best not to be rude. I'm trying honest, I am.

[Rich Schmidt]

A quick Google search of "Wisconsin midwest" (without the quotes) shows that plenty of businesses and groups located in Wisconsin have "midwest" in their names. Shea must have weird friends. :)

Edited to add: I didn't realize Shea was talking about his wife. I don't want to call her weird. :)

(but if the shoe fits....)

[Jim Chabot]

I don't know "how," I just know they do. Something about being "the North."

I'm with you Shea. The Wisconsin "cheeseheads" are either in East Minnesota, or Southern Ontario! Don't cha know!

[Shea Zellweger]

Edited to add: I didn't realize Shea was talking about his wife. I don't want to call her weird. :)

(but if the shoe fits....)

Well, she DID marry me.

Still, you can't deny that Texas is not really a part of "the South," so there's still at least one indictment against the USCB.

[Jim Chabot]

Well, she DID marry me.

Still, you can't deny that Texas is not really a part of "the South," so there's still at least one indictment against the USCB.

Texas isn't part of anything, it is it's own area!

Actually doesn't the south consist of Bama, Sippy, Loosianna, and West Tennesee?

[Shea Zellweger]

Texas isn't part of anything, it is it's own area!

Actually doesn't the south consist of Bama, Sippy, Loosianna, and West Tennesee?

The Bamer's are willing to take GA, SC, northern FL, and sometimes NC as well. Arkansas gets to join Texas, New Mexico, and others as the "southwest."

[Hans Deventer]

When we first moved to Kansas City in the Midwest, I was amazed at the smiles and politeness of the people. But after a few months it began to feel very plasticky. So while New Englanders may not be as polite or socially courteous as many, I find them to at least be more real without the pretension. And the flipside is true, too - those New Englanders who are good friends, are really, really good friends.

And then it seems many Americans call the Dutch rude. Kind of wonder if we're simply at the New England level or even worse :smilies1722:

[Linda Bechtold]

I usually respond to statements about the northeast like this by saying, "At least I know what people really think about me up here!"

While I say it somewhat jokingly, I also mean it. When we first moved to Kansas City in the Midwest, I was amazed at the smiles and politeness of the people. But after a few months it began to feel very plasticky. So while New Englanders may not be as polite or socially courteous as many, I find them to at least be more real without the pretension. And the flipside is true, too - those New Englanders who are good friends, are really, really good friends.

My dad is from Maine and when he answers the phone and hears my voice he is always so happy to talk to me.... I know how special that is because my dad is never happy to talk to anyone on the phone!

[Jim Chabot]

And then it seems many Americans call the Dutch rude. Kind of wonder if we're simply at the New England level or even worse :smilies1722:

Surely you really meant to say that you may be at the New England level or even Better!

[Jim Chabot]

The Bamer's are willing to take GA, SC, northern FL, and sometimes NC as well. Arkansas gets to join Texas, New Mexico, and others as the "southwest."

I can see western Georgia and the Florida panhandle. I plum forgot about South Carolina, anyone who has ever heard someone from SC speak would definitely place them firmly in the south!

[Benjamin Burch]

And people from Virginia self-identify with the south, but real Southerners don't want them. Get your Pennsylvania out of my Northeast, Creely!

People from the south don't get a choice in whether they get us or not. They can't be the south without us. We were the capital for crying out loud.

[Shea Zellweger]

People from the south don't get a choice in whether they get us or not. They can't be the south without us. We were the capital for crying out loud.

The Confederacy and The South are not the same thing (although the UCSB demarkation appears identical). Virginia is welcome to join the racist club, but not the South.

[John Reilly]

Hi Shea, Welcome to the Holy Land.

[Shea Zellweger]

Hi Shea, Welcome to the Holy Land.

Thank you. but I'd prefer "welcome back to the Holy Land" :)

[Kent Campbell]

This fall, I'll be starting classes at Andover Newton Theological Seminary in Newton, MA. My resignation at Millry has been accepted by the board, and the moving truck is booked for May 10. We're very excited to be getting back to the Northeast, and I hope to be meeting plenty of my fellow NazNetters, even that cranky ol' Jim Chabot :)

Congrats Shea on this new adventure for you and yours . I'm somewhat envies of your move. What a great opportunity to be up there around such great theological insititutions.

[Jim Chabot]

Thank you. but I'd prefer "welcome back to the Holy Land" :)

Ummmm, not so fast. We don't exactly consider New York as part of New England ya know. Just because New Yorkers own western CT and VT doesn't get them in.

Besides, isn't western New York part of the rust belt?

But we are real nice people here so Welcome Back!!

[Mike Schutz]

As someone who has lived a LONG time in New England (27 years), and a LONG time not in New England (18 years in Maryland, 1 year in Ohio, and 7 years in Pennsylvania): Sorry guys, but New Englanders ARE rude - and it is because they are so angry.
They are angry that you are on their road at the same time they want to use it.
They are angry because you are in line at Dunkin' Donuts at the same time they are - not just in front of them, but also behind them. They just don't want you there.
They are angry if you are from another part of the country and are visiting New England - even if you are spending money in their store.
They just want you to go away. However, they really do want you to go to heaven. After all - is there any other part of the country where more people give people a finger pointing to heaven?

[Hans Deventer]

They are angry because you are in line at Dunkin' Donuts at the same time you are - not just in front of them, but also behind them. They just don't want you there.


Ok, so we are indeed alike. With 16,5 million people in a country that's only twice the size of Massachusetts, we need everybody gone who can possibly go.

[Dennis M. Scott]

A couple decades ago, Dr. Timothy Smith was involved in a conversation similar to this. To many Tim Smith epitomized New Englanders. He actually was a Virginian who had headed to Boston for college. After that, although he taught at Johns Hopkins, he lived most of his adult life in the Boston area, and was fairly involved at ENC, pastored the Wollaston church, and grew to love New England. He told me that he realized he could never feel like he was a New Englander.

I don't know whether I should feel complimented or not, but a couple years ago, a lifetime employee of our town referred to me as a "long-timer," compared to "all those new people moving here from Massachusetts." We all want to be the last one in before they lock the gate. I would be happy to be identified by New Englanders as a native, but it will never happen: too much Ohio and West Virginia background. I will always be from "away."

I confess I do get a kick out of letting people talk themselves silly. Get one of those southerners started talking, and you don't even need to nod your head: just look them in the eye once every ten minutes or so, and they'll go on for ever. The less you talk, the more they seem to feel the need to fill in the gaps.

Remember the television ad from a couple years ago? A guy from the Northeast walks into a bar, where some guy from away has bellied up to the bar. The Northeast guy says "How ya doon.?" The stranger starts out, "I'm fine! I just flew in from ______, and I had a pretty good flight. Little bit of turbulence, but . . ." The Northeast guy just stares ahead.

[Rich Schmidt]

Remember the television ad from a couple years ago? A guy from the Northeast walks into a bar, where some guy from away has bellied up to the bar. The Northeast guy says "How ya doon.?" The stranger starts out, "I'm fine! I just flew in from ______, and I had a pretty good flight. Little bit of turbulence half way here, but it leveled out. Had to leave my dog at home, but . . ." The Northeast guy just stares ahead.

Was that ad played nationally, or just in the northeast? I have no memory of it...

[Jim Chabot]

Was that ad played nationally, or just in the northeast? I have no memory of it...

How would we know? We never leave here!:smilies1722:

[John Reilly]

Was that ad played nationally, or just in the northeast? I have no memory of it...

Rich you have no memory of it because it happened twenty years before you born. Only Moses and Dennis remember it.

[Dennis M. Scott]

Was that ad played nationally, or just in the northeast? I have no memory of it...

While I don't know for sure, I suspect it was only regionally used. Neither do I remember what it was promoting. I have been surprised how national advertisers regionalize their ads - sometimes even with computer enhanced accents using the same video. The one I'm referencing, however, did not portray the "visitor" especially well, and while I refuse to characterize anyone herein, he had pointy leather boots and a wide-brimmed hat. Neither was the guy who asked the "How ya doon?" question portrayed as too bright. You couldn't tell whether he was from Dorchester, MA, or Brooklyn, NY.

Found it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffUDDYYIX04


ps - there are several videos, and the "northeasterners" are identified as "Jersey boys."

[Shea Zellweger]

Ummmm, not so fast. We don't exactly consider New York as part of New England ya know. Just because New Yorkers own western CT and VT doesn't get them in.

Besides, isn't western New York part of the rust belt?

But we are real nice people here so Welcome Back!!

1) I didn't live in Western NY, I lived in Upstate NY
2) I lived in Boston for 2 years ;)

[Mike Schutz]

I think that you can tell where you are by the friendliness of the toll collectors. In the south they will have a conversation with you. By the time you get north of New York, they will take your money and not even acknowledge your existence. Ask directions - they will point in the direction you are already heading without even looking up. The New England mantra - "If you don't know where you are going, you don't belong there." That's why Mainers, when asked directions, tell folks "Ya can't get there from here."

[Dennis M. Scott]

This one does it without the Texan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_elUqZtHdzw&NR=1

[Shea Zellweger]

This one does it without the Texan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_elUqZtHdzw&NR=1

Wasn't this just supposed to be the "guido" version of the "Wazzaaaaaaap" commercials?

[Jim Chabot]

I think that you can tell where you are by the friendliness of the toll collectors. In the south they will have a conversation with you. By the time you get north of New York, they will take your money and not even acknowledge your existence. Ask directions - they will point in the direction you are already heading without even looking up. The New England mantra - "If you don't know where you are going, you don't belong there." That's why Mainers, when asked directions, tell folks "Ya can't get there from here."

Funny you should mention the toll collectors. I heard a sermon back about seven or eight years ago, and the topic was blessing others. I can't remember the whole sermon, but I remember that we were encouraged to bless toll takers! I have put that into practice since then and found a world of difference in their countenance, many of them brighten right up when they realize that you are truly trying to be friendly. I have found it to be skill that needs practice, since you have but seconds to break the ice.

I have a friend that hates toll takers, he has easy pass and is constantly trying to get me to convert. It drives him absolutely crazy when I start pleasant conversations with them. I have told him that I would never give up my "friends" for easy pass!

I will say that the toll takers in Maine are more friendly that those in New Hampshire, and that they are more friendly that those on the Mass. Pike.

[Jim Chabot]

1) I didn't live in Western NY, I lived in Upstate NY
2) I lived in Boston for 2 years ;)

Ok, so 2 years and you think your in? And remember college don't count for seniority, you gotta be a "townie"

I was born one town away from where I live now. I've been here for 21 years, and still I'm not from here!

Up where I have a house in Maine, they have two classes of people not from there. Anyone south of Bangor is a "downstater" and that covers most everybody in Maine. If you are from south of Kittery, you are an "out of stater" My neighbor tells me that I'm ok, cause I don't act like "an out of stater"

I'll let Dennis tell you what they call people from Mass. up in his parts.

[Kevin Rector]

I like the South. You can keep the Northeast.

[Rich Schmidt]

I like the South. You can keep the Northeast.

I like living in the Midwest (near Chicago). I've visited all these other regions, and they're nice to visit... but I like living here.

Good thing this is where God called me, huh? :)

[David Troxler]

Ok, so 2 years and you think your in? And remember college don't count for seniority, you gotta be a "townie"

I was born one town away from where I live now. I've been here for 21 years, and still I'm not from here!

Up where I have a house in Maine, they have two classes of people not from there. Anyone south of Bangor is a "downstater" and that covers most everybody in Maine. If you are from south of Kittery, you are an "out of stater" My neighbor tells me that I'm ok, cause I don't act like "an out of stater"

I'll let Dennis tell you what they call people from Mass. up in his parts.

Jim,

Think you need to brush up on your categories of people in Maine...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecg_WizWicQ :smilies1722:

[Jim Chabot]

Jim,

Think you need to brush up on your categories of people in Maine...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecg_WizWicQ :smilies1722:

Well that would be how a "downstater" looks at things. Now that fellah talks that a way because he's been livin in boothbay for too long. Course he was actually born in Fort Fairfield and if he stayed there he would talk like my neighbor here in Washburn.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ChiefWiggim#p/a/u/2/gVkm8zRc-RU

Here's some more downstaters making fun of those up north!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvkyZODM1f8

[Dennis M. Scott]

I'll let Dennis tell you what they call people from Mass. up in his parts.

We call them unenlightened.

[Jim Chabot]

We call them unenlightened.

Now that is funny!! Your not kidding anybody, I know what they call us up there. It's a popular term in southern Maine as well. And sadly in most cases it is fitting.

[Jim Chabot]

I like the South. You can keep the Northeast.

Oh, we plan on keeping it!:smilies0295:

[John Kennedy]

Is "northeast" synonymous with "New England"? If so, then PA and NY are both out. Only Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island make the cut.

Remember reading something years ago about the 'vanishing American'.

To the Brits, all Americans are Yankees. In the US Yankees are only found north of the Mason-Dixon line. In the north, Yankees are only found in New England. In New England, Yankees are only found in Maine, and in Maine, a Yankee is someone who has pie for breakfast.

[Mike Wooldridge]

Actually many Texans in east Texas (from Dallas east) consider themselves from the South. Being a native of west Texas I've always considered myself from the West. Fort Worth has always billed itself "Where The West Begins."
Arkansas is generally considered part of the South. It's generally not considered Southwestern.

[Dennis M. Scott]

A few years ago Linda and I were in Florida and ran into an individual who told us he couldn't stand the South. He said he could hardly wait to get back home in the North where he was from. I asked him where up north he was from and he said, "Virginia." I guess pretty much it's all relative.

[James Johnson]

I usually respond to statements about the northeast like this by saying, "At least I know what people really think about me up here!"

While I say it somewhat jokingly, I also mean it. When we first moved to Kansas City in the Midwest, I was amazed at the smiles and politeness of the people. But after a few months it began to feel very plasticky. So while New Englanders may not be as polite or socially courteous as many, I find them to at least be more real without the pretension. And the flipside is true, too - those New Englanders who are good friends, are really, really good friends.

If the smile and politeness of people began to feel "plasticky" after a few months, would that not say a lot more about you than them? How can people who are being" polite and socially courteous" be percieved in a negative way? This just seems to go against everything I ever learned about how we are to treat people.

[Shea Zellweger]

If the smile and politeness of people began to feel "plasticky" after a few months, would that not say a lot more about you than them? How can people who are being" polite and socially courteous" be percieved in a negative way? This just seems to go against everything I ever learned about how we are to treat people.

Although I believe it is good to be tactful, there is a downside to being polite when it reaches the point of dishonesty. For example, if I were to approach someone in this area and present them with an idea for something to do, 9 times out of 10 (or more often) they would say "that sounds like a great idea!" or otherwise exhibit agreement, but they would then turn around and not do whatever it was they said it was a great idea to do. On the other hand, if I go to ten people in the Northeast and ask if they'd like to do ____, the majority will simply say "no," and the ones who say yes will actually get involved. Politeness is fine. Politeness to the extent of misrepresenting oneself is not. I've found much more of the latter in the south, and much less of the former in the Northeast. Having experienced both, I'd rather deal with impolite honesty than polite dishonesty.

[David Pettigrew]

I lived in Texas (correctly pronounced TEK-sis by natives) almost my whole life and always thought I was from the South. I went to college in Oklahoma and thought it was the North. I moved to Arkansas, and found out Texas is not the South, but Arkansas most certainly was.

Now I live on the Texas/Oklahoma border. About a third of my congregation live in Oklahoma. I can't tell the difference between the Texans and the Okies.

Basically, anything north of Dallas is the midwest. East Texas is the South. West Texas is the Southwest. South Texas is Mexico, and Houston is Chicago only hot. Oh, and Austin is New England only hot.

Edited to add: Actually, Houston is probably more like a fat LA than a hot Chicago.

[James Johnson]

I still don't see how a "smile and politeness" can be made to be negative.

[Shea Zellweger]

I still don't see how a "smile and politeness" can be made to be negative.

When the smile and politeness are fake, how can they be positive?

[James Johnson]

Your ability to judge a persons sincerity from their smile and politeness is amazing. Do they teach that in school or is it taught in your churches?

[Mike Schutz]

Three days - we went longer than I thought we would.
Or did I miss an earlier one.

[Shea Zellweger]

Your ability to judge a persons sincerity from their smile and politeness is amazing. Do they teach that in school or is it taught in your churches?

Jim,
Jeremy expressly said that it took him three months. This is not a one time deal, this is three months of dealing with the same people and recognizing that their politeness is, to some extent insincere. In my case, I've been living in "the South" for nearly three years, and could point you to any number of occasions where a person lied through their teeth, and then justified it by saying they were being polite, or that it was just "Southern hospitality." If someone is in a situation where they have to choose between honesty and politeness, I'd much rather they choose honesty, and in my experience it is a part of the Southern culture to choose politeness, bless their hearts.

[Shea Zellweger]

Three days - we went longer than I thought we would.
Or did I miss an earlier one.

There have been a few minor ones.

[James Johnson]

I usually respond to statements about the northeast like this by saying, "At least I know what people really think about me up here!"

While I say it somewhat jokingly, I also mean it. When we first moved to Kansas City in the Midwest, I was amazed at the smiles and politeness of the people. But after a few months it began to feel very plasticky. So while New Englanders may not be as polite or socially courteous as many, I find them to at least be more real without the pretension. And the flipside is true, too - those New Englanders who are good friends, are really, really good friends.

If you say so, but I don't see the three months that you said Jeremy expressly pointed out. I hope you didn't lie through your teeth when you said this Shea. LOL

[Marsha Lynn]

I usually respond to statements about the northeast like this by saying, "At least I know what people really think about me up here!"

While I say it somewhat jokingly, I also mean it. When we first moved to Kansas City in the Midwest, I was amazed at the smiles and politeness of the people. But after a few months it began to feel very plasticky. So while New Englanders may not be as polite or socially courteous as many, I find them to at least be more real without the pretension. And the flipside is true, too - those New Englanders who are good friends, are really, really good friends.

I'm a lifelong Midwesterner. What little exposure I have had to the Eastern culture (Long Island, specifically) left me a bit shocked at how curt they can be with each other. As I've thought about it, my conclusion is that not only are we Midwesterners less inclined to show our impatience with another person but we're also slower to get over sharp words. A longer memory and more space to back off from offensive people makes it less acceptable to spew out words that can't be taken back.

As this discussion has developed, it is being cast as a choice between honesty and politeness. I see it more as a choice between honesty and kindness. The example Shea has mentioned about someone saying they'll do something out of politeness when they have no intention of doing it doesn't match my Midwestern cultural values. Is that more of a southern thing? Did you encounter it in Kansas City?

I agree that it can be frustrating when people avoid the truth because they're trying to be nice. Personally, I try to speak as much truth as people give me room to speak. If you say, "Isn't it that the best idea you've ever heard? I just love it!" I'll smile and nod a little and let you think I agree with you, particularly if you're not depending on my buy-in. However, if you say, "What do you think of this idea?" and seem genuinely interested in my opinion, I'll gladly share it.

Not always, but sometimes, it helps to know how to give permission to people to speak the truth. Other times you have to invest substantial time with them before they start speaking truth to you. And some people really do fit the stereotype of always saying what they think you want to hear rather than speaking truth no matter how hard you work to give them room to speak truth. Those people can be frustrating. Are there no natives who fit that pattern in New England?

Marsha

[Marsha Gupton]

A true southerner will say "bless your heart" whether they like you or not.

[Shea Zellweger]

If you say so, but I don't see the three months that you said Jeremy expressly pointed out. I hope you didn't lie through your teeth when you said this Shea. LOL

You're right, I misremembered the part about three months. When I see "a few," I automatically assume "three."

[Shea Zellweger]

I'm a lifelong Midwesterner. What little exposure I have had to the Eastern culture (Long Island, specifically) left me a bit shocked at how curt they can be with each other. As I've thought about it, my conclusion is that not only are we Midwesterners less inclined to show our impatience with another person but we're also slower to get over sharp words. A longer memory and more space to back off from offensive people makes it less acceptable to spew out words that can't be taken back.

As this discussion has developed, it is being cast as a choice between honesty and politeness. I see it more as a choice between honesty and kindness. The example Shea has mentioned about someone saying they'll do something out of politeness when they have no intention of doing it doesn't match my Midwestern cultural values. Is that more of a southern thing? Did you encounter it in Kansas City?

I agree that it can be frustrating when people avoid the truth because they're trying to be nice. Personally, I try to speak as much truth as people give me room to speak. If you say, "Isn't it that the best idea you've ever heard? I just love it!" I'll smile and nod a little and let you think I agree with you, particularly if you're not depending on my buy-in. However, if you say, "What do you think of this idea?" and seem genuinely interested in my opinion, I'll gladly share it.

Not always, but sometimes, it helps to know how to give permission to people to speak the truth. Other times you have to invest substantial time with them before they start speaking truth to you. And some people really do fit the stereotype of always saying what they think you want to hear rather than speaking truth no matter how hard you work to give them room to speak truth. Those people can be frustrating. Are there no natives who fit that pattern in New England?

Marsha

I was talking specifically about the South, not the Midwest, but the conversations I've had with fellow nor'easterners about the two areas show a lot of similarities, you'll have to wait for Jeremy to respond to his specific experiences.


I think you've kind of illustrated the difference. If someone says to me, "Isn't that the best idea you've ever heard?" I may smile and nod, but odds are I'm more likely to say "no, actually it's not." While I was typing this response, a friend of mine called me from Massachusetts and told me of a recent experience she had with an ex boyfriend. After all the details unraveled, I told her quite plainly that I think she acted like an idiot. She thanked me. If I were to say such a thing to one of my close Southern friends, they would be absolutely appalled at my breach of protocol. I just struggle with the idea that someone would ask me for my opinion but not actually want it. Both my upbringing and my training in psychology have taught me that when in doubt you should always assume that people mean what they say, so if they say that they want my opinion, I give them my honest opinion. If they say they think something is a great idea, and that they'd be willing to help, I expect them to help. It's taken 3 years to "unlearn" that, and I'll be quite happy to get back to a place where people are, for the most part, painfully honest.

[James Johnson]

So Shea, everytime someone in passing say's how ya doing, you stop them and tell them exactly how your life is going? "How ya doing" in the midwest = Hello, glad to see you!

[Shea Zellweger]

So Shea, everytime someone in passing say's how ya doing, you stop them and tell them exactly how your life is going? "How ya doing" in the midwest = Hello, glad to see you!

That's honestly something that I've struggled with. When someone says "how are you doing?" I've come to realize they do not actually want to know how I'm doing, they want me to say "fine, and you?" to which they will respond "fine," or in the case of my friends in Alabama, "tol'ble well." You should've seen the look on the face of the guy who asked me that question the first time I was having a bad day in North Carolina. You would've thought I was from another planet! :)

[James Johnson]

I know Alabama very well, that is where my wife is from and I've lived in the KC area for the last 30 years. So the two cultures taking a beating here are my kind of people. They'll do anything for you, but I suggest you not call them fake or liars! lol

[David Pettigrew]

Your ability to judge a persons sincerity from their smile and politeness is amazing. Do they teach that in school or is it taught in your churches?

James, perhaps you were trying to be humorous, but it comes across as very rude. If you have a point, please make it, but sarcasm is neither helpful nor necessary.

This is a host's post.

[Rich Schmidt]

My part of the Midwest (Illinois/Indiana/Chicagoland) must be somewhere between the South and the Northeast on the willing-to-be-painfully-honest spectrum.

Re: the "How are you doing?" question: I try not to ask it. Or I try to ask it in different words so that people can't give their pat answer. So I'll ask: How are things going these days? or How's life been treating you? or What's been going on with you lately?

Obviously, my preference would be for folks to "speak the truth in love" and be "full of grace and truth"... but if they have to choose between painful honesty and insincere politeness, I'd rather have my feelings hurt and know the truth.

Now I just have to be willing to do the same for others consistently...

[Ryan Scott]

I wasn't born in New England and I only lived there ten years, but I will always be a New Englander. It's the only place that feels normal and comfortable.

I too had a similarly rough adjustment to the Midwest. We've lived in KC for six years now and are very confident that we could be here 100 years and never become Midwesterners. It really is difficult to explain to people here that one of the problems is simply how nice and friendly everyone is.

I do see where Jim is taking an exception. He's confusing Jeremy's generalization with people one might get to know. Obviously, wherever you live, people with whom you develop relationships are generally the same. However, I've also found that most places, strangers could care less about one another - in the Midwest they have this curious habit of pretending as if they did. That's what's most confusing for us from the Northeast.

I believe in previous times it was called Southern Hospitality - people are treated a certain way because that's how its done and one would not want to appear rude - but that doesn't imply a desire for real relationship, its simply a courtesy. I, in my New Englandness, would much rather someone be up front with the idea that "we're strangers and we're not likely to see each other again, so I'd rather not see or speak to you now and save us both the trouble," than the "we're strangers and we're not likely to see each other again, so I'm going to outdo myself with platitudes and good wishes so when you leave you won't think less of me."

Now I don't think either approach is invalid - they both seem logical. It's just that to people used to the first response, the second one seems really fake.

[John Kennedy]

Taught with a guy for years who got his doctorate from 'one of those eastern universities - New Mexico'.

We see things not as THEY are, but as WE are.

I've lived in several different parts of the country. Born in WV, lived in GA, TN, SD, UT, TX and CA.

WV is, regionally, in a unique situation, parts southern, parts midwestern. GA and TN fairly typically southern. SD is, undeniably midwestern while UT is western.

TX is, southern (east Tek-sis), and western/southwestern. In CA you go east (and north) to be in the west.

In differentiating south from north I found the following to be pretty accurate: In the north if you're causing problems they'll call the police (2nd syllable accent). In the upper south they'll call the police (lst syllable accent). Way down south, you mess around too much and they'll "call the lawww".

[Billie Goodson]

People from the south don't get a choice in whether they get us or not. They can't be the south without us. We were the capital for crying out loud.

"Northern" Virginia is out, but I think we still allow southern and southwest Virginia in.