Bonhoeffer, Dietrich - The Cost Of Discipleship

[Hans Deventer]

This is one of the books that changed me. I read it for the first time in the late 70's, and it actually paved my way to the Church of the Nazarene and its theology.

Bonhoeffer was a German pastor and theologian, born in 1906 and hung by the Gestapo in April 1945 for his opposition against the Nazis. Such a background definately gives more value to the words, because the man absolutely lived according to his faith.

The book starts off with the difference between costly grace and cheap grace. Very much an eye opener to me! Cheap grace, says Bonhoeffer, justifies the sin. Costly grace justifies the sinner and can never be cheap, because it costed our Lord His life.

He continues this theme in his exploration of the Sermon on the Mount: "When Christ calls a man, he bids him come and die." But, it is exactly there that true life is to be found!
"Through fellowship and communion with the incarnate Lord we recover our true humanity, and at the same time we are delivered from that individualism which is the consequence of sin, and retrieve our solidarity with the whole human race."

I would say this book is one of the classics in Christian theology.

[Carsten Schermuly]

In german schools he is named twice - as a member of resistance and as a theologician, - in foreground is named the political fact.
More about on WikiPedia
english
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer
german
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer
See the literature links near bottom.

He wrote a song in december 1944, today sung in all churches.
Known as song for New Years Eve, it is much more - a vision of a better tommorrow - really powerfull!
No eye will stay dry. It goes deep.

Von guten Mächten wunderbar geborgen

german text
http://www.onlinekunst.de/silvester/bonhoeffer.html
notes
http://web.utanet.at/toscherf/Kirche/Kirchentxt/Von_guten_Maechten.jpg
melody
http://web.utanet.at/toscherf/Kirche/Kirchenlieder/Von_guten_Maechten.MID

I have looked around for translations of the song - not found, sorry! I do not know its title in other languages.

[Hans Deventer]

There is a Dutch translation and I even know it. Very strong words, especially considering the man who wrote it.

[Carsten Schermuly]

There is a Dutch translation and I even know it. Very strong words, especially considering the man who wrote it.




He got the courts speech to die later. But he has known, his end was near. He just did not know when it should happen.
Under this aspect - in face of death - this songs words must be read.

The physician in Berlin Plötzensee where he must hung, told about him later, he never has seen a man dying like him - he was prepared to go. The strongest testimony for faith I have ever read - told by another one.


It was a sting in the Lords eye.
It was the last court speech of his murderer Roland Freisler.
The Lord watches his children.
Plötzensee Memorial - please see lower half of page 14
http://www.gedenkstaette-ploetzensee.de/14_e.html


Correcture
I made a mistake and changed Klaus by Dietrich - sorry. Dietrich Bonhoeffer died three months later after order by Hitler.


To die is our goal. We have to learn in the right time.

[Bruce Carriker]

Carsten raises a point that many of us might not know. Bonhoeffer's family suffered horribly. In addition to Dietrich, one brother and a brother-in-law were also executed.

Here's perhaps the greatest irony. Of all those wrongly executed by Hitler and the Nazi regime, Bonhoeffer was, in fact, guilty of the charges against him. You can argue all you want about whether trying to kill Hitler was the morally right thing to do, but under the law it was still illegal.

Doesn't change my admiration for the man one bit. But I still find it ironic.

[Doug Kitchen]

In german schools he is named twice - as a member of resistance and as a theologician, - in foreground is named the political fact.
More about on WikiPedia
english
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer
german
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer
See the literature links near bottom.

He wrote a song in december 1944, today sung in all churches.
Known as song for New Years Eve, it is much more - a vision of a better tommorrow - really powerfull!
No eye will stay dry. It goes deep.

Von guten Mächten wunderbar geborgen

german text
http://www.onlinekunst.de/silvester/bonhoeffer.html
notes
http://web.utanet.at/toscherf/Kirche/Kirchentxt/Von_guten_Maechten.jpg
melody
http://web.utanet.at/toscherf/Kirche/Kirchenlieder/Von_guten_Maechten.MID

I have looked around for translations of the song - not found, sorry! I do not know its title in other languages.

Carsten,
I enjoyed the music - is this an English translation?

http://www.pietisten.org/winter0405/sightings.html

Doug

[BobHunt]

Most of you know about James Dobson's Focus on The Family program. Well, they also have another division called Mystery Theatre I think it is. They have duplicated Bonhoeffer's life in children's terms with sound effects. I have listened to it a number of times, and you can even receive truths from that CD. It only is an appetizer to read his story! It is also a real challenge to your own life. We havent suffered as much as some of these did, unless it has been more mentally. Where would we be if we were challenged by the enemy as he was?

[BobHunt]

or as a small child called his program, "Poke Us in The Fanny!" LOL
(not trying to make fun, he does a great work!)

[Carsten Schermuly]

Most of you know about James Dobson's Focus on The Family program. Well, they also have another division called Mystery Theatre I think it is. They have duplicated Bonhoeffer's life in children's terms with sound effects. I have listened to it a number of times, and you can even receive truths from that CD. It only is an appetizer to read his story! It is also a real challenge to your own life. We havent suffered as much as some of these did, unless it has been more mentally. Where would we be if we were challenged by the enemy as he was?


Church history is a bloody story, according to the bloody world history - begun by the blood from Golgotha and Stephanus, the first martyr.

We, living in a relative peaceful time aera and in democratic systems do not know, how life under repressions must be.

Dr. Martin Luther has known this conflict and has said, "Sündigt tapfer" - "be brave to sin".

It is better to make a mistake, that can be forgiven as to do nothing.
Right now I must think to the picture, Jesus teached about the rich man, gave his wealth to three different handling servants while he was out on a longer journey.
The one, has hidden the money to save it, was wrong.

A christian, not reacting on a challenge is wrong.
The Lord is the only one judge.
The Lord loves.
As I know him, people, made decisions like Dietrich Bonhoeffer, will find grace. And - we do not know the thoughts and feelings, leading people of the resistance.
Again,
it is better to make a mistake as to do nothing.

I think, to kill a murdering tyrann is right, is well done, no question.

Under other foresigns the tyrann will be put in prison to protect his victims and - following existing laws - will be sentenced to death on a correct way.
It is a question of ethic to agree - he, the tyrann has choosen his own death.

After Hitler Germany our german constitution does allow only life long prison for murderers, not to kill them.
Their judge is the Lord.


Correcture
"tapfer" - not taper (brave)

[Carsten Schermuly]

Carsten,
I enjoyed the music - is this an English translation?

http://www.pietisten.org/winter0405/sightings.html

Doug


When silent death comes knocking on our doorstep,
Then let us hear the full triumphant sound.



Yes, it is the best possible translation, seems me.

[Carsten Schermuly]

Carsten,
I enjoyed the music - is this an English translation?

http://www.pietisten.org/winter0405/sightings.html

Doug



The world we cannot see breaks through earth’s boundaries
And all your children sing the glorious song.



Then blood and tears are forgotten.
Hallelujah!

[Carsten Schermuly]

Carsten raises a point that many of us might not know. Bonhoeffer's family suffered horribly. In addition to Dietrich, one brother and a brother-in-law were also executed.

Here's perhaps the greatest irony. Of all those wrongly executed by Hitler and the Nazi regime, Bonhoeffer was, in fact, guilty of the charges against him. You can argue all you want about whether trying to kill Hitler was the morally right thing to do, but under the law it was still illegal.

Doesn't change my admiration for the man one bit. But I still find it ironic.


There is also a newer movie (nor only books) - german talking webpage, sorry - telling very precise historical facts. See the pictures.
http://www.bonhoeffer-derfilm.de/

I have taken the entire domain contents by WebReaper, a "websukker" - program down on my harddrives. In case you will get difficulties to get the photos, I will show them on another way.

[William Hunter]

This is one of the books that changed me. I read it for the first time in the late 70's, and it actually paved my way to the Church of the Nazarene and its theology.

Bonhoeffer was a German pastor and theologian, born in 1906 and hung by the Gestapo in April 1945 for his opposition against the Nazis. Such a background definately gives more value to the words, because the man absolutely lived according to his faith.

The book starts off with the difference between costly grace and cheap grace. Very much an eye opener to me! Cheap grace, says Bonhoeffer, justifies the sin. Costly grace justifies the sinner and can never be cheap, because it costed our Lord His life.

He continues this theme in his exploration of the Sermon on the Mount: "When Christ calls a man, he bids him come and die." But, it is exactly there that true life is to be found!
"Through fellowship and communion with the incarnate Lord we recover our true humanity, and at the same time we are delivered from that individualism which is the consequence of sin, and retrieve our solidarity with the whole human race."

I would say this book is one of the classics in Christian theology.


I try to read tdhis book every couple of years. We have a couple of Nazarene classics that are on this re-read list every couple of years. A few books addrress the universal needs of mankind and are profound enough as to require a re-reading perodically.

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

Bonhoeffer--Great book. we have had it in our library for many years.

[Carsten Schermuly]

I do not like to confess this - but, since I have first times heard about, I have difficulties with the idea "to die in Jesus" oder "to die with Jesus". It tastes after martyrdom. I do not see me in this role - really not. I feel well, I feel home.

I know, he is the absolute master of all things. Absolutism - a positive absolutism, but still absolutism. I have no difficulties with - because I know it only as good. Why I should not take a good thing? To let him reign, to give in his hands my will - is the best I can do with my life.
I know what it means to have peace in heart. I know what it means to be comforted and enjoied in deepest trouble and weaknesses - because he does understand, he lifts up my view, my mind to his love.

Come and taste how kind he is,
does not taste after bitterness, after martyrdom.

[BobHunt]

Hans, actually I have a question about another book review I think you did, the one Cost of Discipleship, by Bonhoffer, do you know who the publisher is or if it is out of print? Its hard to find here.

[Brad Mercer]

Hans, actually I have a question about another book review I think you did, the one Cost of Discipleship, by Bonhoffer, do you know who the publisher is or if it is out of print? Its hard to find here.

Amazon.com has it:

Cost of Discipleship (Hardcover)
by Dietrich Bonhoeffer (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author-exact=Dietrich%20Bonhoeffer&rank=-relevance%2C%2Bavailability%2C-daterank/102-7001215-5550517) "DIETRICH BONHOEFFER was born in Breslau on February 4th, 1906, the son of a university professor and leading authority on psychiatry and neurology..." (more (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0844659606/ref=sib_fs_top/102-7001215-5550517?%5Fencoding=UTF8&p=S00E&checkSum=Qex5TIhy%2BgGdY4B9RKHV%2BHOAIasEs%2FEGwUw J4GO1VCw%3D#reader-link))


http://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/x-locale/common/customer-reviews/stars-4-5.gif (58 customer reviews) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0844659606/ref=cm_cr_dp_pt/102-7001215-5550517?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=283155&s=books) List Price: $27.75

Hardcover
Publisher: Peter Smith Publisher Inc (June, 1983)
Language: English
ISBN: 0844659606
Product Dimensions: 1.0 x 4.2 x 7.0 inches
Shipping Weight: 8.8 ounces.

[Brian Hammons]

Another great source for books is Christian Book Distributors, or CBD. Their website is http://www.christianbook.com They have Bonhoeffer's The Cost of Discipleship in paperback for $10.99.

[Brad Mercer]

This was required reading in one of my religion classes at SNU in the mid-70's. It definitely deserves to be called a classic, and read and re-read. A remarkable book by a remarkable man. A remarkable Christian.

Brad