Translation question

[Hans Deventer]

"33.3 ... One redemptive arena of love involves the special relationship Jesus had, and commanded His disciples to have, with the poor of this world;"

What on earth is an "arena of love"? :confused:

[Jon Twitchell]

I think it's awkward language in English. Nobody talks that way.

An arena is like a stadium... it's a place where sports are played and people watch.

But another definition is "a sphere or scene of intense activity, i.e., the political arena" (HarperCollins)

In this context, it's saying that the relationship with the poor of this world is the setting/scene in which we ought to demonstrate love.

Hope that helps. Good luck with your translation efforts!

[Hans Deventer]

Jon, I wondered, wouldn't it be a spelling error and actually have been "an area of love"?

[Mike Fraley]

As much as I'd love to make some snarky comment about gladiator arenas and smooches and hugs, I won't.

Really, to get into this, it probably helps to have the full paragraph for context:


The Church of the Nazarene believes this new and holy way of life involves practices to be avoided and redemptive acts of love to be accomplished for the souls, minds, and bodies of our neighbors. One redemptive arena of love involves the special relationship Jesus had, and commanded His disciples to have, with the poor of this world; that His Church ought, first, to keep itself simple and free from an emphasis on wealth and extravagance and, second, to give itself to the care, feeding, clothing, and shelter of the poor and marginalized. Throughout the Bible and in the life and example of Jesus, God identifies with and assists the poor, the oppressed, and those in society who cannot speak for themselves. In the same way, we, too, are called to identify with and to enter into solidarity with the poor. We hold that compassionate ministry to the poor includes acts of charity as well as a struggle to provide opportunity, equality, and justice for the poor. We further believe the Christian’s responsibility to the poor is an essential aspect of the life of every believer who seeks a faith that works through love. We believe Christian holiness to be inseparable from ministry to the poor in that it drives the Christian beyond their own individual perfection and toward the creation of a more just and equitable society and world. Holiness, far from distancing believers from the desperate economic needs of people in this world, motivates us to place our means in the service of alleviating such need and to adjust our wants in accordance with the needs of others.

We see that one "arena of love" is dealing with Christ's love for the poor. Essentially, an arena in this context is one category in which our love can be manifested.

[Hans Deventer]

Thanks guys. I think I'll end up with something like: "One of the areas in which this redemptive love takes shape is the special relationship that Jesus had ........."

[Mike Fraley]

That is not only a correct interpretation, but also flows much better in English.

[Jon Twitchell]

I don't think it's a typo... I think they meant to say arena. "Political arena" is almost idiomatic speech.

Alternatively, we know that often the Manual reverts to an older style of English. While some of the language was crafted while that style may have been more 'modern,' new paragraphs are probably written with a similar style in order to preserve unity of tone throughout the document.

If "political arena" is not a useful idiom in Dutch, then I think that your dynamic translation probably works fine.

(Edited to add: I agree with Mike...)

[Hans Deventer]

If "political arena" is not a useful idiom in Dutch, then I think that your dynamic translation probably works fine.

John, we know "political arena", because it's a battlefield. But "arena of love" makes no sense in Dutch.

Translating remains an interesting business. I found out that the change in art VI on Atonement, requires no change in the Dutch translation. Not sure how we are going to present that to our District Assembly!

[Kevin Rector]

Thanks guys. I think I'll end up with something like: "One of the areas in which this redemptive love takes shape is the special relationship that Jesus had ........."

I like that a lot more than the way it's written. Leave it to a Dutch man to write the English more clearly than the Americans. :)

[Randy Wise]

"33.3 ... One redemptive arena of love involves the special relationship Jesus had, and commanded His disciples to have, with the poor of this world;"

What on earth is an "arena of love"? :confused:

This seems to fit the context above:a field of conflict, activity, or endeavor: the arena of politics, the arena of war, the arena of love

[Jon Twitchell]

I found out that the change in art VI on Atonement, requires no change in the Dutch translation. Not sure how we are going to present that to our District Assembly!

You say, "Those crazy North Americans are trying to restate the Article in language that is more clear and up-to-date. They finally settled on translating our current Dutch translation back into English in order to get it right."

[Hans Deventer]

You say, "Those crazy North Americans are trying to restate the Article in language that is more clear and up-to-date. They finally settled on translating our current Dutch translation back into English in order to get it right."

No, that's the article on the Atonement! This translation I just made up myself today (I'm working on the Dutch Manual).

[Jon Twitchell]

No, that's the article on the Atonement! This translation I just made up myself today (I'm working on the Dutch Manual).

My post was in reference to the Article on the Atonement. Tell them that the North Americans finally caught up to the wording that you've been using for the last several years.

[Ryan Scott]

"Arena of love" is purely poetic license. It's also probably a creative way to speak about a special relationship with the poor and not get too many complaints from people.

[Hans Deventer]

My post was in reference to the Article on the Atonement. Tell them that the North Americans finally caught up to the wording that you've been using for the last several years.

Oh man, I should stop today! Your post was clear, I'm sorry for being fuzzy. I'll keep your advice in mind, though with Dr. Middendorf present, we might want to put it slightly differently :)

[John Kennedy]

Maybe they were thinking of arena as a venue - a place where an event takes place.

[Billie Goodson]

You say, "Those crazy North Americans are trying to restate the Article in language that is more clear and up-to-date. They finally settled on translating our current Dutch translation back into English in order to get it right."

Since it is not in KJV, is it authoritative? (Yeah, I'm just waiting for the van to stop by to head to NMI convention -- so you guys have my humor to put up with for a little longer).

Hans -- maybe arena fits if you think of it as "tough love"....

[Ryan Scott]

Oh man, I should stop today! Your post was clear, I'm sorry for being fuzzy. I'll keep your advice in mind, though with Dr. Middendorf present, we might want to put it slightly differently

Not a problem if you explain it in Dutch.

[Billie Goodson]

Not a problem if you explain it in Dutch.

Acts 2:6