Texas HS Builds new Stadium

[Shea Zellweger]

Allen, TX High School to receive $60 Million football Stadium (http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1074494).
For the "support the arts" crowd, the school's also building an auditorium for approx. the same price.
Overall, a $120 million bond program was approved for this high school to build these buildings. The money could not be used for general education purposes.
What do you think of spending this amount of money on buildings alone?

[James Johnson]

Shea I saw this yesterday, all I can say is WOW!

[Shea Zellweger]

Shea I saw this yesterday, all I can say is WOW!

Yeah, I saw it yesterday too. The site was down at the time.

[Mike Wooldridge]

Allen, TX High School to receive $60 Million football Stadium (http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1074494).
For the "support the arts" crowd, the school's also building an auditorium for approx. the same price.
Overall, a $120 million bond program was approved for this high school to build these buildings. The money could not be used for general education purposes.
What do you think of spending this amount of money on buildings alone?
They must've scrimped on the video board.
Seriously the Crowley ISD (http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Money-crunch-leaves-Crowley-schools-empty-under-used-90720229.html) in Tarrant County just finished a $40 million building they can't afford to completely open. Both of these districts are in the DFW Metroplex. A lot of governmental entities in the area, including school districts have been hard hit by the recession.
From RivalsHigh: And, this is Texas, after all. Last year, the Allen football team played a game before more than 50,000 fans at the new Texas Stadium.
There is no new Texas Stadium. Texas Stadium was imploded (http://www.wfaa.com/sports/Past-events-at-Texas-Stadium-too-many-to-count-90578779.html). The new stadium is Cowboys Stadium.

[Matt Thompson]

That is INSANE! But the real question is, will they serve a decent sausage wrap? Otherwise count me out says I!

[Ryan Scott]

I have a feeling that they can make some decent money in a high school football stadium in Texas.

[Shea Zellweger]

I have a feeling that they can make some decent money in a high school football stadium in Texas.

Certainly. But how quickly can they recoup $60m with interest? Or, better yet, how quickly can they recoup $120m (counting the auditorium)? According to the article, this was bought on a "bond." Maybe I don't understand the term as well as I thought I did, but I'm pretty sure bonds are supposed to be repaid. Can they make the $$ back before they "need" another new stadium? If they sell out all their games at $25 a pop, they're looking at around $2.7 million per year (assuming they play 6 home games). That'll take about 22 years to pay back at 0% interest. At even 1% interest, that quickly jumps to over 30 years, and that's just the stadium portion. Even with concessions, they're easily looking at 30-40 years to pay this bond. Not many contemporary stadiums stick around that long any more. The Metrodome's only been around since 1982, and could be obsolete as soon as next year. IMHO, you don't plan to be making payments on ANYTHING for longer than you'll be using that thing, and it certainly seems like that's what they've done here.

[Ryan Scott]

I'm guessing it'll be used for more than football games. If its a bond that generally means it had to be voted on. Texans love football.

[Matt Thompson]

The way they do bonds here is that they first determine how much a project is going to cost. They then figure out how much the annual payments would be to repay the bond at X% interest. Once that figure is set, a formula is used to determine how much property taxes will need to be increased on businesses and homes in order to meet that obligation. A bond initiative is then added to the ballot and voters must approve it. If approved, the bond is repayed through tax revenues.

In this part of Texas, ticket sales for atheletic and school events revert back to their respective programs, minus a facilities usage fee to the district. Conession sales go to fund additional school groups. (In the case of our local district, Key Club, National Honor Society and Student Government.)

Since the stadium cost is abosorbed by the tax base it does not rely on ticket sales. Staduims here tend to last a while. Our current stadium was built in the early 80's and although it has been refurbished, had it's electronics modernized and artificial turf installed, it is still pretty much unchanged.

We do love our football down here. Artificial turf and video boards have become pretty well standard in most of the larger high schools. Also, once you add in Freshman & JV games, track meets, soccer, marching band and graduations, you wind up with quite a bit of usage during the year.

[Billie Goodson]

High School football is not a sport in texas, it borders on a religion. While the football played at Florida high schools may be the nations best, California and Texas both have pretty good football. When you consider the future earnings that are on display at these facilities, don't they really deserve a facility that will allow them to be better prepared for their futures? You can't expect a kid to play on a dirt field with crappy seating for 200 when they will tomorrow be playing in stadiums worth 600 million with viewing screens bigger than airliners. When you factor in drop out rates, it really is not worth spending more money on classrooms, football probably keeps more kids in school than any classroom amenity. We should also not forget the school boasts a band with more than 600 members, they likewise cannot be expected to sit on cold metal bleachers and walk in cow pastures. Football is far more than just something to do, for some towns, it is the only thing to do. You can still go to some stadiums (Texas and Alabama are good examples) where 2-to-3 generations of people still gather and communicate. There aren't many other investments we can make that afford that opportunity.

:smilies0295:

Oh, and here is another bit of info on texas stadiums (http://galvestondailynews.com/story/154821).

Just for giggles, here is a piece about a stadium in Boca Raton, FL (http://www.dca.state.fl.us/fbc/commission/FBC_0308/Acc_Adv_Council/2_Boca_Raton_High_School/Boca_Raton_High_School_Bleachers.PDF). For 4,000 seat facility, they were spending $9.7 million. That works out to $2425 per seat. With Allen's stadium seating at $3311 per seat, the Boca facility is a bargain.

[Jonathan Long]

This just scares me. One of our high schools doesn't have a field to play on, they rent the local college stadium....

There's no way in the world that a bonding referendium for a stadium would pass, it took three tries to get approval to add enough classroom space that class size didn't exceed 30 kids!

Jon

[Scott Moseley]

Good time to get into Stadium construction in NorthTexas... its like an arms race or better yet ...keep up with the Allens. I think its sick and poor refelection on a materialistic society with her priorities out of kilter. I like Allen. Its a progressive community with class folks up there.. its interesting how they voted on this excess.

[Mike Wooldridge]

stadiums worth 600 million with viewing screens bigger than airliners.
Cowboys Stadium cost about twice that.

[Jim Poteet]

High School football is not a sport in texas, it borders on a religion. While the football played at Florida high schools may be the nations best, California and Texas both have pretty good football. When you consider the future earnings that are on display at these facilities, don't they really deserve a facility that will allow them to be better prepared for their futures? You can't expect a kid to play on a dirt field with crappy seating for 200 when they will tomorrow be playing in stadiums worth 600 million with viewing screens bigger than airliners. When you factor in drop out rates, it really is not worth spending more money on classrooms, football probably keeps more kids in school than any classroom amenity. We should also not forget the school boasts a band with more than 600 members, they likewise cannot be expected to sit on cold metal bleachers and walk in cow pastures. Football is far more than just something to do, for some towns, it is the only thing to do. You can still go to some stadiums (Texas and Alabama are good examples) where 2-to-3 generations of people still gather and communicate. There aren't many other investments we can make that afford that opportunity.

:smilies0295:

Oh, and here is another bit of info on texas stadiums (http://galvestondailynews.com/story/154821).

Just for giggles, here is a piece about a stadium in Boca Raton, FL (http://www.dca.state.fl.us/fbc/commission/FBC_0308/Acc_Adv_Council/2_Boca_Raton_High_School/Boca_Raton_High_School_Bleachers.PDF). For 4,000 seat facility, they were spending $9.7 million. That works out to $2425 per seat. With Allen's stadium seating at $3311 per seat, the Boca facility is a bargain.

Texas and California play better than "pretty good football." In fact, the state of Texas has more NCAA Division I recruits than any other state.

[Billie Goodson]

Texas and California play better than "pretty good football." In fact, the state of Texas has more NCAA Division I recruits than any other state.


Texas and California play better than "pretty good football." In fact, the state of Texas has more NCAA Division I recruits than any other state.

Jim, do you have a source to support your claim about NCAA Division 1 recruits? I did find a link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/ncaa/01/21/bcsrecruits.state/index.html)that I think is definitive on this topic (since it supports my claim I attach the most credibility to it -- any claim supporting your side would be viewed as suspect at best). According to the definitive link on the topic, you will note that Florida produced 981 players on BCS teams from 2004-2008. What makes this impressive is that it represents a per capita number of 1 recruit per 18,683 people in the state. So by my completely objective analysis, you can see that they have the most recruits and the highest per capita of any state or territory. You may argue my numbers and have plenty of justification, but we both know that only one of us is right as we see it.

What would be interesting is a red/blue breakdown. I think that would clearly show that red states produce far more football recruits than blue. Just a quick cursory look at three "blue"states shows the following:

State Recruits Per Capita
--------------------------------------
Mass 1 in 141,260
New York 1 in 174,021
California 1 in 44,500

So, I would grant you that I may have understated the abilities of Texas and California in my previous post. I will amend that and now submit it should be:

"Florida plays the best high school football in the nation, that is indisputable to anyone with any understanding of the topic. Texas, while not even remotely close to the level of Florida, still plays exceptional football. There is some good football in California as well, but it is far more spread out than in Florida -- thus severely diluted and without their sheer volume of population, would not even be a factor in this conversation.

I hope this clarifies my position and removes any doubt as to the issue of any conceived bias on your part toward my opinion which is clearly objective and definitive.

[David Troxler]

I think this is outrageous as for a price tag, but people will pay for whatever they most deem important.

Brief aside...
Those in Pittsburgh will recall the old Three Rivers Stadium, since demolished and replaced by two sports stadium stuctures, PNC Park (Pirates) and Heinz Field (Steelers). When Three Rivers was torn down, there was still an outstanding $45 million in debt on the old facility after 30+ years of use.

And that was paid for by the public, not the sports franchises.

[David Morris]

Jim, do you have a source to support your claim about NCAA Division 1 recruits? I did find a link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/ncaa/01/21/bcsrecruits.state/index.html)that I think is definitive on this topic (since it supports my claim I attach the most credibility to it -- any claim supporting your side would be viewed as suspect at best). According to the definitive link on the topic, you will note that Florida produced 981 players on BCS teams from 2004-2008. What makes this impressive is that it represents a per capita number of 1 recruit per 18,683 people in the state. So by my completely objective analysis, you can see that they have the most recruits and the highest per capita of any state or territory. You may argue my numbers and have plenty of justification, but we both know that only one of us is right as we see it.

I think for this statistic to be legitimate, you have to include all D-1 teams. There are 119 D-1 football teams. You mentioned a statistic from the BCS schools, of which there are 65 (66 if you include Notre Dame). That is great that Florida, Texas, and California can put that many players on quality teams, but the earlier statement centered on how many D-1 recruits come out of Texas, not how many players play on BCS teams (which comprises just over half of all D-1 football teams).

[Billie Goodson]

I think for this statistic to be legitimate, you have to include all D-1 teams. There are 119 D-1 football teams. You mentioned a statistic from the BCS schools, of which there are 65 (66 if you include Notre Dame). That is great that Florida, Texas, and California can put that many players on quality teams, but the earlier statement centered on how many D-1 recruits come out of Texas, not how many players play on BCS teams (which comprises just over half of all D-1 football teams).

I would agree with you David, but we all know that the BCS schools are really the only ones that count...

Actually, I looked for a statistic for all D-1 and couldn't find it, so I chose to use the only "good" number I could find. You also obviously ignored my comment where I said "any claim supporting your side would be viewed as suspect at best" to Jim. So, if a D-1 aggregated number could be produced and it didn't "prove" my point, I would have to consider it suspect by the rules previously set forth. Hey, I don't like it any more than you but we must adhere to the rules for the debate, even if they are only agreed to by me for the express purpose of ignoring any others. As an American, that is my right. We can all disagree, but politics in this country prove I am right time and time again -- we believe what we want to believe in spite of any proof to the contrary.

To come clean, I have a huge respect for the football in Texas. Between Texas and Florida, I am not sure there is really a significant difference. But, in a purely joking manner, I love to ride Texas football into the ground if given the chance.

[Jim Franklin]

Where there treasure is there will their heart be also. Kind of explains the old saw "dumb jocks."

[Billie Goodson]

Where there treasure is there will their heart be also. Kind of explains the old saw "dumb jocks."

Whats "dumb" about them? They playing on some pretty nice digs. Meanwhile, the science and math club are having bake sales to raise $200 for supplies. It more demonstrates our priorities than we like to admit. (Even the auditorium factored in.) We care far more about our entertainment than anything else. I recently saw something that said $10 Billion would correct the problems in the world regarding lack of suitable water. Here are some numbers for comparison:

Global Priority $U.S. Billions
Cosmetics in the United States 8
Ice cream in Europe 11
Perfumes in Europe and the United States 12
Pet foods in Europe and the United States 17
Business entertainment in Japan 35
Cigarettes in Europe 50
Alcoholic drinks in Europe 105
Narcotics drugs in the world 400
Military spending in the world 780

Here is even a more telling list of numbers

And compare that to what was estimated as additional costs to achieve universal access to basic social services in all developing countries:

Global Priority $U.S. Billions
Basic education for all 6
Water and sanitation for all 9
Reproductive health for all women 12
Basic health and nutrition 13

Source for above numbers. (http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-stats)